30,000 service

[Adagio]

Just had the 30,000 service with my manual Euro. I found the $106 charge quite reasonable :thumbsup: I did supply my own oil Penrite Sin5 5w-60, and told them not to re-fill my washer bottle as I have my own preferences. The loan car was a 2003 Euro auto, it was the best auto I have ever driven so responsive. I still prefer a manual, I detest an auto changing gear half way around a bend it always puts me off. Was this thread covered before I couldn't find anything in Search?

[yfin]

Hey Adagio - is there any particular reason you went for oil that thick? The manual doesn't recommend that viscoscity. Didn't the Honda dealer say anything?

[EuroDude]

:o 5w when cold, 60 when hot, can't be good for a 10w30 recommended engine

[yfin]

:o 5w when cold, 60 when hot, can't be good for a 10w30 recommended engine

I think more interesting is that the dealer put the oil in! Dealer mechanics work with Euros every day and no one thought about whether the oil was suitable? When I bring my own oil in they always look at the oil first.

[Rice_4_life]

mayb it was the apprentice that worked on it :D...

[aaronng]

Some mechs don't bother checking. I've brought 25w-50 oil for a car that uses 15w-40 before and they didn't mind either.

Anyway, for a K series, 5w-60 will be pretty bad as on the Sin5 spec sheet, they list cars which have engines designed with large piston ring clearances which are common with forged performance pistons.

[Adagio]

To answer Yfin's query. Oils don't get thicker than what you get when you pour it in your engine. It's how thin the oil gets when it gets hot. The 60 in the specification 5w-60 relates to the amount of protection you get as the temperature rises. 60 will give good protection by offering more separation of the mechanical parts. So with this full synthetic Penrite Sin 5 oil I can expect good flow and good protection with a minute amount of increased fuel consumption. As my consumption is averaging out at 7.9L/100kms I am feeling comfortable. I did check with the technical dept of Penrite and they say the above oil and grade is the right one for the Euro.

[yfin]

To answer Yfin's query. Oils don't get thicker than what you get when you pour it in your engine. It's how thin the oil gets when it gets hot. The 60 in the specification 5w-60 relates to the amount of protection you get as the temperature rises. 60 will give good protection by offering more separation of the mechanical parts. So with this full synthetic Penrite Sin 5 oil I can expect good flow and good protection with a minute amount of increased fuel consumption. As my consumption is averaging out at 7.9L/100kms I am feeling comfortable. I did check with the technical dept of Penrite and they say the above oil and grade is the right one for the Euro.

When I said "thick" Adagio - that is more a common term when referring to the weight of oil. It is really more to do with flow. The second number is the viscoscity of the oil at 100°C which is beyond the recommended viscoscity by the manufacturer. I can't see how Penrite can say otherwise.

[EuroDude]

Is it true that if you use thick 5w-60 oil for too long it wears the engine quicker, and makes the engine not suitable for 10w-30 anymore?

[aaronng]

To answer Yfin's query. Oils don't get thicker than what you get when you pour it in your engine. It's how thin the oil gets when it gets hot. The 60 in the specification 5w-60 relates to the amount of protection you get as the temperature rises. 60 will give good protection by offering more separation of the mechanical parts. So with this full synthetic Penrite Sin 5 oil I can expect good flow and good protection with a minute amount of increased fuel consumption. As my consumption is averaging out at 7.9L/100kms I am feeling comfortable. I did check with the technical dept of Penrite and they say the above oil and grade is the right one for the Euro.
The first number is the equivalent viscosity to an SAE weighted monograde oil at -18 ºC. So the Sin5 oil has the same viscosity as that of a SAE 5 oil at -18 ºC.

The second number is the equivalent viscosity at 100 ºC. So it has the same viscosity as an SAE 60 oil at 100 ºC.

The K series is designed to take from 20 up to 40 weight oil (at 100ºC) and from 0 to 15 weight at -18 ºC. 50 weight will be pushing it, but 60 is too far out of the recommended viscosity.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1200/viscosityfo1.jpg

If the clearances are large enough to allow 60 weight oil in between moving parts, then yes, 60 will be able to protect it as the oil film of a 60 weight oil will protect better than a 30 weight oil. (that's why you can use more viscous oils on older cars as the clearances are larger from wear)

BUT!!!! If the clearances are too small for a 60 weight, then you'll get metal on metal wear, which is bad.

Remember, it is not only about protection, but also about the ability of the oil pump to circulate oil around your engine. If the oil is too viscous to flow around a warm, metal-expanded engine, then you won't get any of that delicious 60 weight protection.

BTW, Penrite recommends HPR5 (which is a 5w-40) for the Accord Euro

[Adagio]

Phoned Penrite automotive tech support and John tells me that Sin 5w-60 is the right oil for the Euro if a synthetic oil is required. At 100c these oils are thin almost like water as you can tell if you drop your oil after a longish run.
Perhaps we should move this debate to a more appropriate site? I will continue to investigate and report back.

[yfin]

Phoned Penrite automotive tech support and John tells me that Sin 5w-60 is the right oil for the Euro if a synthetic oil is required. At 100c these oils are thin almost like water as you can tell if you drop your oil after a longish run.
Perhaps we should move this debate to a more appropriate site? I will continue to investigate and report back.

It is ok to discuss it in this section Adagio. Let us know how you go :thumbsup:

[aaronng]

Phoned Penrite automotive tech support and John tells me that Sin 5w-60 is the right oil for the Euro if a synthetic oil is required. At 100c these oils are thin almost like water as you can tell if you drop your oil after a longish run.
Perhaps we should move this debate to a more appropriate site? I will continue to investigate and report back.

Yes, it's thin like water. But that is still twice the viscosity that is specified by the engine. Your engine needs something that is thinner than water!

BTW, your warranty can be void if you use an oil of incorrect viscosity. But if you ever need to claim engine warranty, I think you can also argue that the dealer you used should not have used the oil if it was unsuitable (that's why you pay extra for servicing at the dealer anyway).

[yfin]

But if you ever need to claim engine warranty, I think you can also argue that the dealer you used should not have used the oil if it was unsuitable (that's why you pay extra for servicing at the dealer anyway).

Lets hope that never needs to happen for all our sakes. Otherwise Honda dealers will stop allowing customers to use their own preferred oil. Some refuse to allow it already.

[tony1234]

Phoned Penrite automotive tech support and John tells me that Sin 5w-60 is the right oil for the Euro if a synthetic oil is required. At 100c these oils are thin almost like water as you can tell if you drop your oil after a longish run.
Perhaps we should move this debate to a more appropriate site? I will continue to investigate and report back.
I'm also interested to know.It(5W-60) seems too viscous(the 60 part).keep us posted!BTW i'm using 5W-30!!

[aaronng]

Call Honda and ask if 5w-60 can be used in the Euro. ;)

[SpeedBird]

There is Nothing in the 2006 Euro Owners Manual on any of the 570 pages that says you have to use a oil with a 10W-30 grade rating.

On page 418 and 419 it says, oils that conform to ACEA A1/B1 or ACEA A3/B3 or API Service SJ or SL.

Can anyone show me in the owners manual or service booklet that says otherwise.

[yfin]

There is Nothing in the 2006 Euro Owners Manual on any of the 570 pages that says you have to use a oil with a 10W-30 grade rating.

On page 418 and 419 it says, oils that conform to ACEA A1/B1 or ACEA A3/B3 or API Service SJ or SL.

Can anyone show me in the owners manual or service booklet that says otherwise.

No there is definately a chart very similar (if not the same) as Aaron posted showing the viscoscity of the oil to be used for both petrol and diesel variants. Take a look again as I have seen the chart a number of times.

[aaronng]

And here's the chart again:
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1200/viscosityfo1.jpg

[SpeedBird]

There are 2 charts showing various grades but nothing in accordance that you must pour 10W-30 into the oil cap when oil is changed.

So therefore, 5W-60 Exceeds those charts ratings, in according to the temperture range shown with the arrow goes off the temp range.

Thumbs up!

[yfin]

There are 2 charts showing various grades but nothing in accordance that you must pour 10W-30 into the oil cap when oil is changed!

In the US they have the recommended viscoscity written on the oil cap. Honda doesn't trust Americans to look in the manual... :D

Pic is an excuse to show off the supercharger...


http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2246000-2246999/2246494_3_full.jpg

[vtek]

AAronng you can give so much free technical information so if people do not choose to listen to you then its thier problem, we can just get together and laugh when theres a tread about claiming waranty when using the wrong oils. Im not sure why people would spend 2times or more the cost of manufacturer recommended honda Feo oil on something you would drain out in 5000-10000kms it beats me.

[aaronng]

So therefore, 5W-60 Exceeds those charts ratings, in according to the temperture range shown with the arrow goes off the temp range.

Thumbs up!
Mate... a higher number DOES NOT mean that it exceeds the rating. 60 is a rating of the VISCOSITY, not the protection.

[aaronng]

AAronng you can give so much free technical information so if people do not choose to listen to you then its thier problem, we can just get together and laugh when theres a tread about claiming waranty when using the wrong oils. Im not sure why people would spend 2times or more the cost of manufacturer recommended honda Feo oil on something you would drain out in 5000-10000kms it beats me.

I guess.. I have no problems with people putting in $90, $150 or even $200 synthetic racing oils in their car. I just cringe when people put an unsuitable oil into an engine that was not meant to use it. It's like watching the guy at the fuel pump next to yours put diesel into his new petrol-powered car.

[yfin]

I guess.. I have no problems with people putting in $90, $150 or even $200 synthetic racing oils in their car. I just cringe when people put an unsuitable oil into an engine that was not meant to use it. It's like watching the guy at the fuel pump next to yours put diesel into his new petrol-powered car.

Not really Adagio's fault though - he got bad advice from Penrite. I feel sorry for him as if he called Penrite now I doubt they would help him rectify the situation.

lol at fuel errors. Brings back memories. I used to work in petrol stations and wrong fuel in vehicles happens quite frequently! Not so much diesel in petrol cars (because diesel nozzle is bigger size) - but petrol in diesel cars happens often enough... Customers would crap their pants and ask me "what should I do, OMG what should I do?"

[aaronng]

LOL, back in Malaysia during the old days (10-12 years back), the nozzles were all the same size! It's ultra dodgy there. Always hear the usual Mercedes C200 being filled up with diesel. LOL

[tony1234]

I'd be int.to know what Penrite told Adagio the "advantages"are in using a 5W-60 as opposed to a 5W-30 or 40 viscosity oil in the Euro.

[Adagio]

I am not trying to swim upstream. I just wanted to use a high quality oil, preferably Australian. I contacted Penrite on two occasions to verify that Sin5 was correct. I assumed their oil technician would clearly know the right oil, hence my calls to the automotive technical support. On Monday I will be contacting them again and get this matter sorted and will respond to this thread then.

[Adagio]

I have sent an e-mail to Penrite asking for a definitive response to the suitability of Sin 5 for the Euro. In the mean time I found the following on the Penrite site http://www.penrite.com.au/files/RBE8544W3T/SIN%20Engine%20Oil%205.pdf
Basically it said: Sin5-60 was specifically designed for high performance modern petrol engines from 1 cylinder to 16 cylinders for road and track where a man made synthetic pure oil is deemed necessary. It goes on to say that it exceeds the requirements of Porsche etc. etc. Much is made of its engine protection qualities and adding long life to engines even under extreme situations. Anyway more of this when Penrite replies, I guess in a few days -- Fascinating stuff:)

[aaronng]

A Porsche engine is not the same as a Honda engine. I'm not saying that the quality of Sin5 is bad. I'm saying that the viscosity is not correct for use in the Honda. If they made a Sin5-type oil with a viscosity of 5w-30 or 5w-40, then it would be great for the Euro!

[Adagio]

That's why I have asked for a definitive answer from Penrite to clear up this viscosity issue. I am not saying your wrong I just want Penrite to clearly state what is correct or that they have made a mistake.

[yfin]

I have sent an e-mail to Penrite asking for a definitive response to the suitability of Sin 5 for the Euro. In the mean time I found the following on the Penrite site http://www.penrite.com.au/files/RBE8544W3T/SIN%20Engine%20Oil%205.pdf
Basically it said: Sin5-60 was specifically designed for high performance modern petrol engines from 1 cylinder to 16 cylinders for road and track where a man made synthetic pure oil is deemed necessary. It goes on to say that it exceeds the requirements of Porsche etc. etc. Much is made of its engine protection qualities and adding long life to engines even under extreme situations. Anyway more of this when Penrite replies, I guess in a few days -- Fascinating stuff:)

I had a look at that PDF document and I can definately see why people put it in any car. In the "where to use it section" they say "all types of vehicles".

What they really should be saying is "all types of vehicles" that specify a viscoscity of SAE 5W-60. Perfect example of the marketing staff at Penrite dominating over the engineering department.

[SpeedBird]

According the the Penrite PDF is also mentions the 5W-60 that it will outperform SAE 5W-30 grade. And Meets or EXCEEDS the performance requirements of a host of technical requirements in accordance to the car makers approval and engineers standards.

Any engine in a Porsche or BMW M3-M5 or Merceded Benz AMG range would have a even more tighter exact tolerance in engine build to get those higher horsepower requirements. Compared to a mass produced Honda engine.

[aaronng]

Any engine in a Porsche or BMW M3-M5 or Merceded Benz AMG range would have a even more tighter exact tolerance in engine build to get those higher horsepower requirements. Compared to a mass produced Honda engine.Actually, an engine that uses forged pistons has a larger tolerances because the piston changes shape as it warms up.

Power is not made by using tighter tolerances. Power is made by improving the intake and exhaust flows, lightening moving components and using aggressive cam profiles and ECU tuning.

[SpeedBird]

aaronng Quote: Actually, an engine that uses forged pistons has a larger tolerances because the piston changes shape as it warms up.

So what are the tolerances for a engine that uses forged pistons say in a BMW M5 when comparing it to the Accord Euro engine spec limits?

And by how much do the pistons change shape when its warmed up?

[aaronng]

In the 4a engine series by Toyota, there are the 4a-ge and 4a-gze, both very similar with the 4a-gze using a supercharger, forged pistons and a stronger block. When a 4a-gze is started, the cold engine sound is not as nice as a 4a-ge because of the forged pistons. Supposedly, the forged pistons are sligthly oval when cold and round when warm, so the cylinder diameter has to accomodate the "longer" oval shape when cold and would have a larger tolerance when the engine is warm with a round piston shape.

Not sure on an M5's piston to wall clearance, but for the Euro, it is 0.020-0.040 mm, with a limit of 0.050 mm before an overhaul is required. You can use those numbers to compare with that of an engine with forged pistons.

[Entity]

i just got quoted $195 for a 30000km service am i being ripped off?

i dont understand how you can pay only $106 and still get a loan car, which dealership is this (if you can PM me?)

i usually drop my car off and then just catch a train out, then come back and grab it in the arvo.

[vtek]

no thats normal servicing cost without a pollen filter. Most dealerships offer a loan car at a cost but as to be booked in advance.


i just got quoted $195 for a 30000km service am i being ripped off?

i dont understand how you can pay only $106 and still get a loan car, which dealership is this (if you can PM me?)

i usually drop my car off and then just catch a train out, then come back and grab it in the arvo.

[aaronng]

i just got quoted $195 for a 30000km service am i being ripped off?

i dont understand how you can pay only $106 and still get a loan car, which dealership is this (if you can PM me?)

i usually drop my car off and then just catch a train out, then come back and grab it in the arvo.

More expensive in the city. I pay $200-205 and I supply my own oil!

[Adagio]

The first number is the equivalent viscosity to an SAE weighted monograde oil at -18 ºC. So the Sin5 oil has the same viscosity as that of a SAE 5 oil at -18 ºC.

The second number is the equivalent viscosity at 100 ºC. So it has the same viscosity as an SAE 60 oil at 100 ºC.

The K series is designed to take from 20 up to 40 weight oil (at 100ºC) and from 0 to 15 weight at -18 ºC. 50 weight will be pushing it, but 60 is too far out of the recommended viscosity.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1200/viscosityfo1.jpg

If the clearances are large enough to allow 60 weight oil in between moving parts, then yes, 60 will be able to protect it as the oil film of a 60 weight oil will protect better than a 30 weight oil. (that's why you can use more viscous oils on older cars as the clearances are larger from wear)

BUT!!!! If the clearances are too small for a 60 weight, then you'll get metal on metal wear, which is bad.

Remember, it is not only about protection, but also about the ability of the oil pump to circulate oil around your engine. If the oil is too viscous to flow around a warm, metal-expanded engine, then you won't get any of that delicious 60 weight protection.

BTW, Penrite recommends HPR5 (which is a 5w-40) for the Accord Euro

This is the response I received from Penrite's Technical Manager:

Honda actually recommends and sells 10W-30 for the majority of the Hondas on the market (against which we recommend 5W-40 as standard), so the 20 through 40 comment is a little interesting. However many OEMs have a temperature vs oil graph that allows grades other than the OEM/initial fill so that would be where that comes from. Bottom line though. Oil always gets thinner as it get hotter (as I believe you mentioned to one of our guys here). So looking at the "graph". You cannot make a blanket "0 to 15" weight comment as it relates purely to the oil viscosity at start up - and in fact in conditions that are as scarce as hens teeth in Australia. However, it still gives an indicator as to oil flow at start up. This is of course the "W" number on a SAE grade. The second number is the indicator of viscosity at 100C, or "sump temperature when hot" in very rough terms. (there are places in the engine where you will see 150C plus, albeit briefly). The ideal oil is one that has the LEAST viscosity change possible as temperature increases. Hence a 5W-30 while the same as a 5W-60 (note 5W is tested at -30C) at "start up" (in fact a 5W-60 is not that far removed from a 15W-40 at 10C as far a viscosity goes), but at operating temperature, it is heavier than the 5W-30. Now if an oil can pump quickly enough at start up without causing engine rattle (metal to metal contact at the top end) then at operating temperature it is simply no issue as yes, while the clearances may have closed, but the oil has also got a lot thinner. This is how a multigrade oil works. If the product was simply a straight 60 it would be very hard to pump and would not get into the "gaps" until the engine had warmed up considerably - and that would cause wear. For older cars, the more viscous oils in use tend to be 20W-50 to 20W-60 (or heavier) - i.e. they are also heavier at start up (which also helps reduce leaks!). I agree the tight tolerances can be an issue but it is an issue more at start up and it is extremely rare to have engine rattle at high temperature from oils that are too heavy - it happens more if too light. If you had an engine that rattled both cold and hot then you would surmise the oil was too heavy but usually it is one or the other. In this case, with a "rattle" engine and good overall performance, the Sin 5 seems to be a good choice. I hope this helps you. regards, Tony Lawton
Technical Manager
Penrite Oil Company
Ph 61 3 9801 0877
Direct 61 3 8805 4426
Fax 61 3 9801 0977

[Adagio]

Aaronng did you receive my PM re dealer? It may be at my end but I am having problems transferring data on ozhonda.
Adagio

[yfin]

at operating temperature, it is heavier than the 5W-30. Now if an oil can pump quickly enough at start up without causing engine rattle (metal to metal contact at the top end) then at operating temperature it is simply no issue as yes, while the clearances may have closed, but the oil has also got a lot thinner.

So he is basically saying if your engine is not rattling with 5w-60 it will be ok. Cold comfort I say.

[tony1234]

So he is basically saying if your engine is not rattling with 5w-60 it will be ok. Cold comfort I say.
What advantage is there in using their 5W-60 as opposed to 5W-30 or 5W-40?From what i understand,none!So what's the point in using it???:confused:

[EuroDude]

The point of using thicker oils is to protect an old engine that has larger clearances due to normal wear'n'tear. But using it in a new car might be a worry, especially if the engine overheats one day and reaches above 150c. It might even wear the engine down quicker than normal.

But the main point is, if the car is still under warranty, stick with the recommended rating, otherwise honda may blame an engine problem on your oil and void the warranty work.

[aaronng]

Aaronng did you receive my PM re dealer? It may be at my end but I am having problems transferring data on ozhonda.
Adagio

Yup, I got your PM. Thanks!

[aaronng]

Hence a 5W-30 while the same as a 5W-60 (note 5W is tested at -30C) at "start up" (in fact a 5W-60 is not that far removed from a 15W-40 at 10C as far a viscosity goes), but at operating temperature, it is heavier than the 5W-30. Now if an oil can pump quickly enough at start up without causing engine rattle (metal to metal contact at the top end) then at operating temperature it is simply no issue as yes, while the clearances may have closed, but the oil has also got a lot thinner.
He's basing the suitability of 5w-60 on the fact that oil gets thinner as it warms up. While that is alright, it is only 1/2 the story. The 2nd half is how much tighter tolerances are when hot. And that depends on the engine. If the engine tolerances are still loose enough for a 60 weight oil, then there is no problem. BUT! Penrite probably doesn't have data on engine tolerances. I don't think Honda releases that kind of info to any other company other than one that is developing oil under the Honda brand. So we are playing russian roulette on guessing whether a K series has tolerances loose enough for 60 weight oil when it was specified to use 30 weight. It is not only the piston the wall tolerances but the tolerances of the bearings, moving parts, oil channels in the head, oil jets under the pistons and so on.

Penrite's technical manager also mentions the viscosity vs temperature chart. What if you have engine problems and you were using this thicker oil? Honda could deny your claim by saying that they already included the chart of allowed oil viscosities in your manual and that you went against their specifications.

[Adagio]

Seems to me this matter of which oil to use will keep going around in circles unless we get Honda's response to the use of a full synthetic 5w-60 oil. Have we a contact in Honda?

[EuroAccord13]

Do you think Honda would go and contradict their own recommendations? Highly impossible me thinks...

[Adagio]

Do you think Honda would go and contradict their own recommendations? Highly impossible me thinks...

As Honda is a technology motivated company they would be aware that oil technology is constantly evolving and would adjust their views accordingly. That owners manual was written some years ago.I would be happy just to know if Honda approve synthetics in general and hopefully be told the parameters to keep in mind.

[aaronng]

As Honda is a technology motivated company they would be aware that oil technology is constantly evolving and would adjust their views accordingly. That owners manual was written some years ago.I would be happy just to know if Honda approve synthetics in general and hopefully be told the parameters to keep in mind.

Honda Australia approves fully synthetic oils. Also, the oil has to be of the correct viscosity and exceeds the quality of their Honda FEO (which is easy, almost all synthetics do).

The owners manual is written for each vehicle. Older CD Accords had the standard oil stated as 10/15w-40 in the manual. The Euro's is 10w-30.

Oil technology improves, but viscosity is viscosity. A fluid that is more viscous will resist flow more than a fluid that is less viscous. No amount of technology will change that without changing the viscosity of the fluid.

[Adagio]

After much mental anguish I phoned my Honda dealer and reminded him of the Penrite Sin5 oil he used during the last service. I said I was prepared to drop the oil today and replace it with 10w-30 if it was necessary. His response was that the Penrite Sin 5 was just a little heavy but leave it in till the next oil change and then go for a lesser viscosity synthetic. :thumbsup:

[insanesam]

What kind of oil do honda use for a standard 30000km service?

Also, i called around for a quote for 30000km service.
Dealer gave me 2 options, standard service which is 165$, and a 'premium' service which is $250. With the premium service apparently they use synthetic oil, take off all brake pads and removes dust or something, and top up all fluids.
Is this a load of crap or like a really 'premium' service?

[aaronng]

What kind of oil do honda use for a standard 30000km service?

Also, i called around for a quote for 30000km service.
Dealer gave me 2 options, standard service which is 165$, and a 'premium' service which is $250. With the premium service apparently they use synthetic oil, take off all brake pads and removes dust or something, and top up all fluids.
Is this a load of crap or like a really 'premium' service?
Do the standard service but bring your own oil. Dealers must do what is stated in the service manual. They can't force you to do extra without your permission. Taking the pads off to remove dust does nothing as the dust comes back when you press the brake pedal for the first time after leaving the dealer. :)

You should get like $40 off the $165 price if you do the standard service. Bring your fav synthetic oil (motul 8100 5w-40 for me) and the total cost will be only $125+65 = $180.

[Euro05]

Servicing in the city is depressing. Just had my 30,000km service done in Brisbane. Got 2 quotes, 1st was $217 and the other was $185 so thats what i went with. I decided to ring the country dealership where I used to live to get a quote and it was $120. I can't understand why city dealerships can charge so much more when there is a lot more competition than a country dealer where the closest dealer is 2-3 hours away so they could charge pretty much whatever they wanted too. I know the cost of city living comes into it but it still makes me scratch my head. At least I know i'll be going for a drive to the country for my 40,000km service, the dealer where i got the 30,000km service done told me it would be about $600, i know it's a major service but I don't plan on getting ripped off. Sorry for raving on but I had to get it off my chest

[BusterSonic12]

this saturday, going to Larke Hoskins Rosebery for 30,000km service.
using my own motul 8100 ecess oil, honda ATF n honda oem brake fluid.
not sure about price yet. got my euro here but i never had my service there it's like 40min away from me. what r your experience with this dealer? is there shopping center near by to kill some time??

[_CiVIC_]

do they change the AT fluid at 30,000kms??????????

[aaronng]

No, but I'd change AT fluid every 1.5 to 2 years. We followed the regular ATF interval on our old accord and the strainer clogged up, causing accelerated wear and then needed a rebuild.

[_CiVIC_]

oh ok.. well i think my ATF would be due around feb/march 08 then.. sweet :)

[tron07]

this saturday, going to Larke Hoskins Rosebery for 30,000km service.
using my own motul 8100 ecess oil, honda ATF n honda oem brake fluid.
not sure about price yet. got my euro here but i never had my service there it's like 40min away from me. what r your experience with this dealer? is there shopping center near by to kill some time??

There is nothing to do there... nearest train station is Green $quare $$... you can go to East Garden which is like 10 minutes drive away or SupaCenter which have nothing interesting to see other then ToysRUs

[tony1234]

this saturday, going to Larke Hoskins Rosebery for 30,000km service.
using my own motul 8100 ecess oil, honda ATF n honda oem brake fluid.
not sure about price yet. got my euro here but i never had my service there it's like 40min away from me. what r your experience with this dealer? is there shopping center near by to kill some time??
Take a Civic type R for a spin to kill some time.Feed them some BS about wanting to trade the Euro.:p

[tanalasta]

Honda dealers use various oils depending on what they buy in stock. I once did a ring-around of the various Perth dealers and found they used anything from Castrol Magnatec to Shell Helix.

However, they will use Honda FEO on request which is roughly $40 / same price.

I use Mobil 1 Gold 10W-30 (which meets Honda specs and viscoscity) and make sure they return the leftover oil because it's so expensive!

The 30k service is expensive, especially if you get the pollen filter replaced. However, it's a walk in the park compared to what the 40k will cost you because of the additional labour required for the valve clearance check.

[tony1234]

I think 30k service is only minor except for replacement of pollen filter($80).Does anyone here have a cost from dealer on this service?

[tanalasta]

$289 including car-hire and pollen filter. However, I bought my own oil.

[BusterSonic12]

RoseBery Larke Hoskins Honda
30,000km service $191.95 (exclude wheel alignment + engine oil) cos i just installed Tein and done my own alignment not long ago, and provided my own engine oil.
the service was good. A+

[insanesam]

I did my 30000km service about 3 weeks ago at Larke Hoskins Rosebery, was $120 and i brought my own oil. They said they would replace my clutch master cylinder. They say they've ordered the parts and just waiting on them. Been 3 weeks now, does that seem ridiculously long?

[tony1234]

I did my 30000km service about 3 weeks ago at Larke Hoskins Rosebery, was $120 and i brought my own oil. They said they would replace my clutch master cylinder. They say they've ordered the parts and just waiting on them. Been 3 weeks now, does that seem ridiculously long?
Wonder why the $$$ diff.between your 30k service and bustersonics?:confused:Cause it's at the same dealer??

[insanesam]

yeah got no idea. when i rang up and asked for a quote it was 185 minus 40 for their oil, meaning it should be around 145. but i think these baboons make up prices as they go along or something.

[tony1234]

It pays to make a few calls to diff.dealers.The prices do vary,i don't know why??

[insanesam]

If you call the same dealer on two different days you will get two different prices. When i called around for quotes it was 165 at Rosebery. 3 days later when i actually made the booking i just wanted the price confirmed and it was 185 which is bloody ridiculous. I could'nt be bothered arguing so i went ahead with the booking since its convenient and close to my work.

[tony1234]

If you call the same dealer on two different days you will get two different prices. When i called around for quotes it was 165 at Rosebery. 3 days later when i actually made the booking i just wanted the price confirmed and it was 185 which is bloody ridiculous. I could'nt be bothered arguing so i went ahead with the booking since its convenient and close to my work.
Dickheads.should've got the name of the guy who quoted you.

[aaronng]

Not as bad as Holden. They quoted me $290 for a minor service and then told me it was $400 (already printed on the work order) when I was dropping my car off! I complained that I was quoted $290 and they said they would try to do something about it. When I picked the car up, they charged me $290.

[panda[cRx]]

do they change the AT fluid at 30,000kms??????????

no, but at some dealers they will do it at every 20k (20,40,60,80 etc)

[UNLS1]

ours is 185.
cheaper if you bring ur own oil.

[J-TODA]

Not as bad as Holden. They quoted me $290 for a minor service and then told me it was $400 (already printed on the work order) when I was dropping my car off! I complained that I was quoted $290 and they said they would try to do something about it. When I picked the car up, they charged me $290.

yer proob some profit making scheme...happens in most if not all services/sales...

go buy a tv...ur mate pays 100..u get offered 120..say ur mate paid 100..if they know there in the wrong...usually price drop...sold 100..

profits profit.
best to call around =] if u dnt want to lose out

[Samm928]

i get my oil change myself, i got the tools n shit to do it and also all the nesessary things to lift my car to do the oil change n all the fluid changes. costs me $55 for oil + filter =).

[_CiVIC_]

got my 30,000km service done today.. $187 including hire car, but i provided my own oil (Fuch's Semi-Synth).. pretty happy with it all :) thanks Trivett :thumbsup:

[insanesam]

Finally got my clutch master cylinder replaced today. No more creak for now. Gear changes still seem a little notchy and the pedal seems a little shorter. Then again i did have 2 beers for lunch so i might be a bit dillusional.

Will the notchiness disappear over time? or do i need to change transmission fluid?

[insanesam]

Ah damn my clutch creak is back (Master cylinder replaced 3 weeks ago). should i go back to honda and ask for another? or is the problem going to keep coming back even it the MC is replaced again?

[aaronng]

Get them to spray some lube into the area where the clutch rod goes into the firewall or do it yourself. Don't use WD40. Use a proper spray lube or silicone spray.

[insanesam]

Get them to spray some lube into the area where the clutch rod goes into the firewall or do it yourself. Don't use WD40. Use a proper spray lube or silicone spray.

I was thinking about that. I actualli look at where the rod goes into the firewall and its packed with pink grease i think. Mechnically is this creak an issue or just a nuisance? Its not damaging my car is it?

[aaronng]

It's probably the internal spring catching against the wall. But I prefer to lube it and not have it creak.

[insanesam]

Read somewhere on these forums that the creak is because clutch not disengaging properly and hence causing premature clutch wear. So does simple lubrication fix this?

[aaronng]

Read somewhere on these forums that the creak is because clutch not disengaging properly and hence causing premature clutch wear. So does simple lubrication fix this?

It's supposedly 2 different issues. One is on the clutch fluid side, and the other is on the push rod side. The clutch fluid side one was a problem with the master cylinder in the 2003 models. Since you have a 2007 master cylinder now, it shouldn't be the problem. Just check where your clutch bite point is. If it doesn't disengage properly, your bite point is at the bottom of pedal travel.

[insanesam]

It's supposedly 2 different issues. One is on the clutch fluid side, and the other is on the push rod side. The clutch fluid side one was a problem with the master cylinder in the 2003 models. Since you have a 2007 master cylinder now, it shouldn't be the problem. Just check where your clutch bite point is. If it doesn't disengage properly, your bite point is at the bottom of pedal travel.

Got my car looked at today. They said its not the master cylinder but rather something with the clutch pedal push rod thing (i didn't quite understand). Basically ordered a new pedal assembly which will be put in next week and hopefully this annoying creak will be gone forever.

[insanesam]

Got my pedal assembly replaced today. Drove home from work and car was great. Gear shift smoothly and minimal 1-2 grind. However in the evening i decided to go for a drive, i could hear a creak again although very subtle. I had a look at the pedal and pretty much all of the moving parts have been greased and the part where the rod goes into the cylinder is heavily packed with pink grease aswell. Should i take it back to honda and demand them to fix this thing permanently or should i just give up and live with it?

[evolve88]

Hi all,

Just called a couple of Honda dealers around Melbourne for the 30,000 km service, was amazed at the price difference. One was $335, and the other was $224.40.

Has anyone done this service recently? How much was it?

[Ramzes213]

I need to do my next month in Melb suburbs as well. Please let us know about reliable and cheap service place in melb. Thanks

[tony1234]

30K service cost me $156.00.I supplied my own oil so they took off $40.00.Collins Honda Rockdale Sydney.:thumbsup:

[evolve88]

$196 with oil.. That is very good, even my 10k and 20k services were not near that. How long ago was this? Did this include the pollen filter change? One of the dealers advised that the pollen filter needs to be changed at this service. Thanks.

[Pumped]

Had mine done last week, $188 for me

[tony1234]

$196 with oil.. That is very good, even my 10k and 20k services were not near that. How long ago was this? Did this include the pollen filter change? One of the dealers advised that the pollen filter needs to be changed at this service. Thanks.
This was without pollen filter change.i changed it myself,got it off a member here destrukshn for $50.PM him for good pricing for Genuine Honda parts.:thumbsup:

[corn_flakes]

i've done my own servicing since my car was brand new.

yes it voided the warranty, but my car has been fine since. :)

[tron07]

Going for my 30k soon... but I think I will skip the pollen filter change this round...

[Kiwi]

Wow it never ceases to amaze me about the price difference in servicing. I called 2 Honda dealers who are 20 minutes apart and the first quoted $180 for the 30k service for my 2006 Std Euro Manual and the 2nd dealer quoted me $375.

The 2nd dealer is doing a wheel balance/rotation/pollen filter/oil and filter change. I imagine that the 1st is not doing the pollen filter and maybe not the wheel balance/rotation.. but double the price ?

The 2nd dealer told me the Pollen filter change is about $80.. does this need to be done ?

[Crapdaz]

wheel balance - $50 (from tyre place)
rotation - free
pollen filter - $30
oil - $50
filter change - free + $15
Total to do these = $145 DIY estimate


Wow it never ceases to amaze me about the price difference in servicing. I called 2 Honda dealers who are 20 minutes apart and the first quoted $180 for the 30k service for my 2006 Std Euro Manual and the 2nd dealer quoted me $375.

The 2nd dealer is doing a wheel balance/rotation/pollen filter/oil and filter change. I imagine that the 1st is not doing the pollen filter and maybe not the wheel balance/rotation.. but double the price ?

The 2nd dealer told me the Pollen filter change is about $80.. does this need to be done ?
do you use the fresh air button or do you block it? Take out the pollen filter yourself and have a look to see if it needs changing.

[tron07]

I use recycle air most (all) of the time... so not much pollen to be filtered out....

[tony1234]

Wow it never ceases to amaze me about the price difference in servicing. I called 2 Honda dealers who are 20 minutes apart and the first quoted $180 for the 30k service for my 2006 Std Euro Manual and the 2nd dealer quoted me $375.

The 2nd dealer is doing a wheel balance/rotation/pollen filter/oil and filter change. I imagine that the 1st is not doing the pollen filter and maybe not the wheel balance/rotation.. but double the price ?

The 2nd dealer told me the Pollen filter change is about $80.. does this need to be done ?
I changed my pollen filter at 30K cause it looked almost black:eek:.So yes i'd say change it at 30K.Forget the balance/rotation,get it done yourself.The dealer just takes your car to the nearest tyre shop to get it done.Also make sure they change the oil filter every 10K service as in the service book it says to change oil filter every 20K.

[Crapdaz]

I use recycle air most (all) of the time... so not much pollen to be filtered out....
same for me i use to use recycle air, but then now because i read that if you block it, it can create mold or something on the lines of that in the vents.

i got a pollen filter i got from the states none honda one for pretty cheap, been sitting in my room for a change when the time is right.

[civicVI]

Hi all,

Just called a couple of Honda dealers around Melbourne for the 30,000 km service, was amazed at the price difference. One was $335, and the other was $224.40.

Has anyone done this service recently? How much was it?

where is the cheaper one?? i need to do it very soon!!

[Crapdaz]

where is the cheaper one?? i need to do it very soon!!

if your looking for none genuine.

Then search ebay or google for TSX pollen filter, it'll be about +/- $30.

[evolve88]

where is the cheaper one?? i need to do it very soon!!

Not sure if I can post the dealer names here, I will send you a PM civicVI.

Keep in mind that some dealers are willing to match prices. Not sure if the $224 includes pollen filter though, but they did say it was standard log book service.

[aaronng]

Not sure if I can post the dealer names here, I will send you a PM civicVI.

Keep in mind that some dealers are willing to match prices. Not sure if the $224 includes pollen filter though, but they did say it was standard log book service.

Good words about a dealer is fine. Bad words, keep it to PM. It is just to protect the forum so that we don't get sued by the dealer.

[Kason]

can anyone tell me do i need to change transmission fluid for the 30k service? what engine oil for street use ( with abit of fun once awhile)?

[aaronng]

can anyone tell me do i need to change transmission fluid for the 30k service? what engine oil for street use ( with abit of fun once awhile)?
Is your car an auto or manual. I'd change it every 2 years/40k for the auto, and maybe 3 years/60k for the manual.

Engine oil, a cheap one on discount is Castrol Edge 5w-30 for $30-40 during sale (don't buy it at regular price of $50). For regular price, go for Motul 8100 xcess 5w-40 for $69 regular price at Autobarn.

[Min988]

It's usually pretty cheap to get the ATF changed, looking at my service receipt for my 40000km service it was $48.50 to get it done, I got it done because my car was hitting 3years without a change even though the clock was showing 26000km, I instantly noticed that gears in tiptronic mode were shifting a whole lot faster, though that fresh feeling died off about 2 months later.

[ms700]

A good way to save $$$ in any Honda dealer servicing is to buy your own oil, even if its from the spare parts dept, if you get the B1767 FEO 10w30 Honda stuff, list price is roughly $32.00, and i bet my left swimmer maker the service dept will charge a lot more than $32.00 for oil..... Keep the parts invoice, staple it to the service invoice, looks good come resale time.

[Ramzes213]

I quoted a few dealers for 30k service and in Melb the cheapest was at Heidelberg for $210.00. Accord CM5 do not have pollen filter so no worries about that.

[aaronng]

A good way to save $$$ in any Honda dealer servicing is to buy your own oil, even if its from the spare parts dept, if you get the B1767 FEO 10w30 Honda stuff, list price is roughly $32.00, and i bet my left swimmer maker the service dept will charge a lot more than $32.00 for oil..... Keep the parts invoice, staple it to the service invoice, looks good come resale time.
They usually charge $40 for the 4.2L.

[ms700]

They usually charge $40 for the 4.2L.
Exactly. You can go buy a 5ltr tub from spares for $32, and have a little under a litre left over for topups!

[Kiwi]

I finally figured out why the servicing costs are so different.

Log books say to change oil, pollen filter and check a bunch of things

Dealer 1 quoted $375 and included oil, pollen filter, oil filter, tyre balance
Dealer 2 quoted $180 and included oil.... tyre balance if needed would be $24.

Now this car is not driven hard and has a 5 year warranty so I'm happy to not replace the oil filter if Honda doesnt require it, but given the pollen filter is listed in the Warranty handbook, does this mean that is HAS to be changed ?

I pulled the Pollen Filter out today and it is pretty clean with just a few small leaves and a bit of dust which I cleaned out.. certainly not black like some people have said and we always have it on 'Recycled' aircon anyway.

[Crapdaz]

you mainly get sh*t in it if you have fresh air coming in.
and always switch it on fresh air last 5minutes or something before hitting the garage as supposedly it'll reduce mold from building up in the vents.

just take it out and give it a vacuum every so often.
mine is greyish.

[ms700]

The only time they will be pure white is when they are brand new!!! I think they make them white so they show up the dirt more obviously, and seeing them dirty might make you go buy another one.......

[Kiwi]

Yeah I've seen that you can get them for Bursons or Repco for half the price as Honda so I'll do that.

But given that its in the Servicing book, does that mean that it has to be changed to keep the Warranty up to date ?

[Crapdaz]

The only time they will be pure white is when they are brand new!!! I think they make them white so they show up the dirt more obviously, and seeing them dirty might make you go buy another one.......
yeh strategies to make consumers spend more money.
just buy non genuine ones which will save you $50 excluding the labour.
btw thanks for referring me to bob the tinter.


Yeah I've seen that you can get them for Bursons or Repco for half the price as Honda so I'll do that.

But given that its in the Servicing book, does that mean that it has to be changed to keep the Warranty up to date ?
you will always have warranty until it expires, it will just mean that DID THE DEALER CHANGE IT FOR YOU?

[ms700]

yeh strategies to make consumers spend more money.
just buy non genuine ones which will save you $50 excluding the labour.
btw thanks for referring me to bob the tinter.
Of course! And the price of the filters is kinda ridiculous......

Sounds like bob looked after you, excellent stuff. Bob doesnt stuff around, and he's a nice bloke to boot.:thumbsup:

cheers.

[Crapdaz]

i booted him alright. haha
yeh great guy even ripped my expired rego and stuck it on the front windscreen.

[aaronng]

I finally figured out why the servicing costs are so different.

Log books say to change oil, pollen filter and check a bunch of things

Dealer 1 quoted $375 and included oil, pollen filter, oil filter, tyre balance
Dealer 2 quoted $180 and included oil.... tyre balance if needed would be $24.

Now this car is not driven hard and has a 5 year warranty so I'm happy to not replace the oil filter if Honda doesnt require it, but given the pollen filter is listed in the Warranty handbook, does this mean that is HAS to be changed ?

I pulled the Pollen Filter out today and it is pretty clean with just a few small leaves and a bit of dust which I cleaned out.. certainly not black like some people have said and we always have it on 'Recycled' aircon anyway.
I'd rather keep the current pollen filter and instead change the oil filter. The pollen filter is not a critical component, while the oil filter is!

[tony1234]

The only time they will be pure white is when they are brand new!!! I think they make them white so they show up the dirt more obviously, and seeing them dirty might make you go buy another one.......
That's true.It worked on me.Seeing it almost black i changed it myself a week later.I had approx.32K when i replaced mine.