excessive balance shaft free play H22A- engine out job?

[h22a accord]

hey all. does anybody know if you have to remove the motor to replaces what ever is causing 10mm freeplay in the front balance shaft of a h22a?

when i say free play, i mean that you can physically move the shaft in and out of the block.

[bennjamin]

you mean the crank pulley ?

[destrukshn]

no shaft ben.
lol.

[h22a accord]

im pretty sure it is the front balance shaft- you have to have the timing belt covers off to even find it.

[Slow96GSR]

You mean the crank will move in and out 10mm? Wow! That's some major movement there. The only thing you have to do is pull the tranny away from the block so you can get to the flywheel or torque converter. Then you can pull the crank out with out the rest of the parts.

[h22a accord]

You mean the crank will move in and out 10mm? Wow! That's some major movement there. The only thing you have to do is pull the tranny away from the block so you can get to the flywheel or torque converter. Then you can pull the crank out with out the rest of the parts.

here is a pic of what i am talking about- i have circled the front balance shaft pulley.

if you were to grab the balance shaft pully you can move it freely in and out of the block 10mm.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/dtaila/balanceshaft.jpg

[TODA AU]

LOL... 10mm... Really??? Sorry...
I take it you discovered this problem because the engine was making odd noises?
I think you probably have more, as yet unseen issues to come...

[h22a accord]

LOL... 10mm... Really??? Sorry...
I take it you discovered this problem because the engine was making odd noises?
I think you probably have more, as yet unseen issues to come...




Actually, the motor has never made any funny noises and i am one that is constantly listening to my motor all the time for the slightest noise.

The only way it was discovered was when the timing belt failed....Upon inspection of the timing belt it was apparent that half the timing belt was missing due to the balance shaft belt fouling on the timing belt. The constant rubbing on each other reduced the width of the timing belt to a point where the integrity was compromised enough for the timing belt teeth to sheer off. The reason for the balance shaft belt fouling the timing belt is the excessive end play.


Ive been reading through my workshop manual and it says this

front balance shaft end play
standard ( new): 0.10- 0.35mm

if play is excessive, inspect the retainer and thrust surfaces on the balancer shaft.


the instructions in the workshop manual for removing either one of the balance shafts requires both the gearbox and flywheel to be removed so the front balance shaft retainer can be accessed.

others on the forum have stated i should just leave the balance shafts disconnected and secure them so they dont get in the way but im not convinced that this would be the best option.

[h22a accord]

update- it seems that the front balance shaft can be accesses from the side opposite the gearbox but it requires the removal of the exhaust "a" pipe, sump and oil pump.

so today, honda checked the front balance shaft retailer and found 2 small bolts that had snapped allowing the shaft to move.


new bolts are ordered, they will be fitted tomorrow and my car will be back to normal.

[JasonGilholme]

ahh ok so you thought it was between the motor and the gearbox?? you'd be able to get to it by just removing a few belts and other things. May even be able to get to it through the wheel arch.

[h22a accord]

update......obviously i nedd 2 new bolts for the front balance shaft retainer but i also need a new retainer as the old one has been damaged by not being fastened where it should be.

The problem is now that honda dont make these parts anymore lol.


So i'm going to use the bolts and retainer out of my spare f22b engine. I am pulling it out tonight.


I just checked my f22b accord haynes manual and it shows a phot of the retainer and bolts and they look identical to the ones that came out of my h22a engine. I am assuming ( and hoping )that these 2 retainers will be identical as the f22b block is an identical twin to the h22a.

[h22a accord]

ok, 1 hour later and the job is done, i completely pulled dowe one side of my spare f22b motor and removed the front blance shaft retainer and also the 2 bolts that fasten it.

Everything had to come off including oil pump, sump and oil pick up. glad i had air tools.

Now i just have to hand this sucker over to my mechanic at honda and it wont be long before im rolling again.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/dtaila/13022007005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/dtaila/13022007006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/dtaila/13022007007.jpg

[ECU-MAN]

sweet.

good luck with it.

hope the shaft is ok.

[h22a accord]

sweet.

good luck with it.

hope the shaft is ok.



I hope so too. any idea if h22a and f22b shafts are interchangeable?

[ECU-MAN]

I cant say for sure as I have never done it before.

I can check the part numbers for you though to see if they are the same.


the shaft is made of a stonger matirial than the thrust plate to youhave a good chance.

[h22a accord]

I asked the machanic today when i handed the part over if the shaft was damaged. He said the damage was very very slight...more so marks than any actual damage to the shaft and it would be fine to re use.

[EG5]

if it causes too much of a problem, why not fix it by removing it?

http://www.kaizenspeed.com/products_AA.html

[h22a accord]

that may be an option further down the track but the motor would have to be removed to do this.

Im still confused as to why it is a good idea to remove the shafts when they were designed to be in there in the 1st place.

[EG5[KRT]]

all balance shafts are there for is to balance the car @ idle...

once u go past idle they dont come into play...

so technically u dont even need them..

[ECU-MAN]

not just at idle, they are their to remove harmonics at certain rpm.

mitsubishi is a classic example of that

[h22a accord]

UPDATE

the good news is that my car is all back together fixed and running perfectly. even better than it used too. Must be something to do with the balance shaft that was wobbling around in the block.

the bad new is that it cost me $2200 to get it fixed. thats with trade discount.