Roll cages

[Dylanamus]

I have been advised by a FIA and CAMs authorised engineering firm that a street registered vehicle can be legally driven on public roads with an approved 4-point cage.

Although this does not provide all the chasis rigidity of a 6+ point cage, it can provide a brace for racing seats and harnesses. Until I can afford purchasing a vehicle suitable for towing, I want to keep my car registered so I can drive it to events.

1. Is it a viable solution to get a 4 point cage installed now and then add more points to it a couple of years later?

2.Does anyone know if there are any pre-engineered 4-point kits that are FIA or CAMs approved to fit a 1990 Honda CR-X SiR? (I have been advised having a cage custom designed to FIA standards is extremely costly.)

Anyone else go to or interested in the "friendly" Gippsland Hill Climb events?

Thanks in advance.

[Drew]

No, four point cages can't be made into a 6 point cage later

[SINISTR]

hey mate...

funny you ask these questions as I've asked them not so long ago:

any type of cage can only be installed to a car which is registered as a two seater (no rear seats) - be it a 4pt or a 6pt. The only issue with a 6pt cage is that in some states its not approved for street use (track only) - thefore a good idea to maybe have it engineered in such a way that you can 'add' those two front points before a track outing.

I have a CUSCO 6pt cage at home which is actually made for an ED/EF (which im considering modifying) to fit my gen1. this cage allows me to add the two front legs when i go racing.

http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/d/166886-2/IMG_2138.JPG

http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/d/166883-2/IMG_2135.JPG

[SINISTR]

No, four point cages can't be made into a 6 point cage later

Who says? ^^^^^

[newbie]

hey sinister, are you installing it yourself? wat type of bolts are you using? and how you drilling the holes into your chasis?..

[SINISTR]

hey sinister, are you installing it yourself? wat type of bolts are you using? and how you drilling the holes into your chasis?..

I havent got to the installation stage as yet - I will be consulting some people with experience here first - I know i'll be getting rid of the carpet tho and then drilling. I'll likely have it installed for me by an expert.

:thumbsup:

or sell it LOL and get a weld-in cage done but i think it would be cheaper to modify this one than have a custom one made.

[Dylanamus]

SINISTR: Thanks for the reply, mate. If it's legal to have a 6 point cage in my car on Victorian roads, then I'd just get the whole thing welded in. I was just lead to believe that only 4 point cages could be used in registered vehicles.

Am I correct in assuming that that Cusco cage comes with some kind of Japanese approval, but no FIA or CAMS pre-approval and that you need to get it inspected to pass the requirements of CAMs to be used locally?

My car is registered as a 4 seater at the moment (despite the restrictions for rear passengers being 38kg and a seated height of 50cm hahahah), so I'd have to change that first too...

[Dylanamus]

Custom cages are not cheap. The designs need to meet Australian racing standards and requirements (if you ever intend to compete) and thus require a qualified engineer to either develop or certify the cage - and their time is worth a LOT haha It would be worth it if you were going to do a lot of dangerous racing though. Welded cages designed by professional impact and stress engineers are obviously superior in every way.

Nice time on the quarter for Mr Bandit, SINISTR. You don't happen to know about Victorian rules RE cages do you? hehe

[SINISTR]

Yes - your crx would have to be re-registered as a 2 seater before any type of roll cage is installed. You could simply remove the seat but its best to have the car 're-registered' if you expect to drive on the street.

Im not 100% sure IF a 6pt cage would be allowed in VIC. I was told the only way a 6pt cage could be legally licensed in WA is IF its welded in and it has to go through the dash and run right beside the A-pillar.

As far as any cage goes it will have to be approved with your local RTA - if its engineered, custom made or bought as a bolt in. In terms of FIA or CAMS approval - you'd have to have the cage built to CAMS SPECS (refer to cams race handbook) - all specs are there.
CUSCO - i know someone here in Perth who runs this same type of cage 'safety21' in his 180sx and says he had no issues getting it approved.

[SINISTR]

You don't happen to know about Victorian rules RE cages do you? hehe

hehe - no i don't sorry :p BUT im pretty sure you can find them or call them... even ask what CAMS cages are approved and you can have one built to those specs.

[Drew]

On 6 point cages doesn't the bar going from the front to the back have to be one piece on custom cages?

Made to order cages can't be all that expensive in NZ a full cage is ~$2000ish depending on materials and such

Bolt in cages are for posers and I wouldn't trust my life with one

[Dylanamus]

$2000 sounds like a good deal. I know someone who paid $6000 for a custom welded-in cage in their Mirage and that was heavily discounted and materials were next to nothing compared to normal costs.

I found this resource that outlines Victorian guidelines for street registered vehicle cages:
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/35E021C8-0116-48E5-8EF6-BEDFCDF08265/0/VSI28.pdf

They don't clearly state 4 or 6 or X point cages to be legal etc, but they do go into detail about the restrictions and my conclusion is that 6 would easily be possible, however I couldn't determine whether or not welding the cage in would be legal (at least without having an engineers certification). It gets a bit ambiguous in parts like that.

I don't really want a bolt in cage, to be honest, but was more wondering if there are pre-designed or pre-fabricated sections that can be welded in two or four points at a time... does that make sense?

At any rate, if welding is permitted, then I'd be more inclined to go with a full 6 point custom cage.

It's sitting pretty far back on my to-do list at the moment, but if I can fill in a few Sundays stripping the interior, then why not...

[Drew]

Like everything to do with cars, Australia is mega expensive compared to New Zealand

[SINISTR]

here also a cage costs around 2K but i think thats for a 4pt (half cage).

[Kawasaki]

From memory Cusco/Safety21 cages are not and can not be FIA/CAMS approved due to inspection holes in the bars. also CAMS requires weld in cages as far as i know.

[Steer^Gimic]

First of all, why do you want FIA approval?
you will only need CAMS approval unless you are competing in a class, even then you will still only need a CAMS approval
Bolt in cages arent legal, whether they are padded or not, and arent exactly the safest option either.
regarding legality, welded cages are permitted, 4 or 6 point. no side bars are allowed in a road car, but as long as the cage is padded, with a CAMS approval, you are good for the street.
Unless your car is super light weight and trying to shed vital kg's off the car, then use Spun steel. Chromoly is more expensive, not as strong, and need more re-inforcement and points to be as structually strong as spun steel.
ASAIK, last time i rang Meridian Motorsport (www.mmsport.com.au) they quoted roughly $1700 for a welded, unpainted 4 point CAMS approved cage.
extra bars CAN be welded after, and paint it yourself, cause the extra cost they will charge you is just for the time it takes for them to prepare, mask etc.

[Dylanamus]

Steer^Gimic: Thanks for the info and for the link. The only reason I mentioned FIA is because all FIA approvals automatically qualify for CAMs and FIA, being international, might encompass more variety. The reason I want a CAMs approved cage is not only for the insurance of the highest level safety, but the investment of a vehicle I can later enter into restricted events - given my ultimate goal is to compete in 1600cc events with my CR-X.

It is handy to know that all CAMs cages need to be welded, but I am yet to find out if welded cages can be approved by VIC Roads: their guidelines only mention lug and bolt connections - so I emailed them to ask.

I read through Meridian Motorsport's document regarding cages and they quote an estimate of $2000 for the analysis and subsequent design/plan for a once off cage to suit a custom purpose. So it will probably be a $4000 project.

Thanks for all the info so far.

[SINISTR]

you know what you should do? is look through all the Hot4s and Autosalon mags and see all the tech sections - especially autosalon. In the last 6 months there was at least one installation of a rollcage with details of the places doing it - I'd think a 4K cage would be an absolute full cage with bracing everywhere imaginable... 2-3K MAX for a 6pt!