suspension question

[d15z1SUX]

well i just wanted to know the difference having double wishbone suspension vs macpherson struts in a car makes for handling and suspension modification. i heard that double wishbone is the way to go and is on eg and ek civics while the newer generation of civics have changed their front suspension to macpherson struts. i guess this is a cost thing for honda to try to price their cars more competitively?

[d15z1SUX]

anyone? lol

[jdm_kid]

ring jap honda lol

[d15z1SUX]

damn...

[Bayani]

LOL, barred.

Sorry mate.

So you're asking the difference between double-wishbone and macpherson?

Then you're asking people who don't work for Honda if the reason they don't have double-wishbone is to cut costs...

I would expect it would depend on what type of track you're wanting to tune for, wouldn't it?

[bennjamin]

later hondas have macpherson struts IE DC5R etc. Its a performance vehicle - i think its a combination of cost cutting and general design improvements to use this base.Its not a reason to keep the overall cost "competitive"

[d15z1SUX]

oh... but i heard machpherson struts were inferior and double wishbone front and rear is the best combonation? well no one told me why they were inferior though. i was watching best motoring and the president of spoon was basically saying something like strut suspension was harder to tune or didnt have the same potential as double wishbone suspension. it seems like this may be part of the reason spoon has not seemed to have embraced tuning the ep3 and dc5 that much.

[d15z1SUX]

LOL, barred.

Sorry mate.

So you're asking the difference between double-wishbone and macpherson?

Then you're asking people who don't work for Honda if the reason they don't have double-wishbone is to cut costs...

I would expect it would depend on what type of track you're wanting to tune for, wouldn't it?

yes i am asking the difference of those two suspension types.
and if macpherson struts are cheaper to produce on a car then isnt it a form of cost cutting? and is that the goal they are really trying to achieve or is there another reason for this? y cant someone who doesn't work for honda not be able to answer this question?
and with your last statement what i really mean is there a difference between the ways machperson struts and double wishbone suspension are modified if at all. perhaps one allows for more adjustment of spring and damper rates than the other for example? not that i know one does allow for more adjustment.

[d15z1SUX]

and mr spoon president also said that dc5 and ep3 share their platform with the honda stream mini van.

[bennjamin]

and mr spoon president also said that dc5 and ep3 share their platform with the honda stream mini van.

Hondas have shared same parts for years.
Prime example is the EG civic and DC integra - majority of parts are interchangeable :)Its something done in car companies forever !

[Muzz]

Performance wise, both systems are capable of performing well.
Macpherson struts are a popular choise for car manufactures because it is cheaper to produce, while offering decent camber control. However the camber control is not that great. It also needs more room.

Double wishbone suspension is a more advanced system, saying that though, just because a car has wishbone over strut, does not mean its going to handle better/faster etc.

To put it simply, using a double wishbone suspension system allows a manafacturer to have greater control over how the alignment will change in their design, as the wheel moves through its whole range of suspension movement.

For example the lenghts, placement and angles of the arms greatly determine the rate, and change of rate (tricky shit) that the camber (among other things) will change as the suspension is moves through its full range of motion. As i stated above the macpherson strut system, while still ok, dosnt offer great control of the camber.

The strut system wont make the car harder to tune or modify suspension wise, that wont change. It would probably be equal or even easier to get the best possible performance out of the car due to the less possible variables there are to work with. Changes to alignment, spring rate, damper stiffness, swaybar rate etc, will be just as easy to alter, and castor changes much easier.
The strut system will also have a better motion ratio (closer to 1:1) which is a slight advantage.

It does mean that the person (or computer) actually designing the suspension system dosent have as much control over how the geometry and alignment will react to the position of the wheel relative to the chassis. Somthing which people tuning these machines wont be altering, unless they are altering the mounting points and suspension links to achieve different geometry.

As you can see it is possible to make a better suspension system by using a double wishbone design, if the designer is capable.

However it is possibe to make an excelent performing macpherson strut system aswell. I doubt Honda would of gone back to a strut system in the dc5 if it was much of a step down in performance. There are tons of pros and cons to both systems, its how the manurfacture uses the pros of the systems to their advantage, and how badly the cons effect performance of the system.

[d15z1SUX]

Thanks for that. great explanation, now i kind of understand it more. so i guess its not as bad as i thought lol. just that i heard all these people complaining about it :P