Turbo Setup

[hayashi_1986]

Hi All.

In the next year I'm planning on getting a turbo setup for my daily driver. I just want a little more power.

I'm currently running a SOHC D16Y1 Vtec motor in my 92 civic, and would it be possible to run a setup on it without going as far as doing the internals (forged pistons, beams, balanced crank etc.)? I'm really only looking to run 4-6psi boost. Nothing more nothing less.

I've seen a few kits here and there on eBay and have been considering this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/D-Series-Civic-CRX-Del-Sol-Full-Turbo-Kit-Radiator-88_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ015QQitemZ 250089193247QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD2V

It's basic, and honestly, pretty s**t. But I'm not looking for 200kw atw...heck I'm not even looking for 150kw atw. Either way, I'm after a little more power with bang for buck. I've heard of a few people on these forums and other forums who have tried these kits with okay gains and virtually no problems with their stock equipment. Whats everyone's opinions on these? Are they any good?

Like I said, not after a huge gain. Just after a little more power...and fun ;) .

Cheerz

[destrukshn]

if you run 4-6 psi, you don't ahve to do the internals.
BUT get a compentent tuner, that knows what his doing.
you could go nuts on internals and make it still blow if the tuning is ****ed.
lol.
plus from what people say here, ebay kits are rubbish,
try source your own parts, or get a kit that has a reputation for being good.

[hayashi_1986]

Yeah I've heard good things about Greddy kits. I was considering one of those, but still trying to keep to the cost factor. I know that power doesn't come cheap, but knowing that I'll drive my car to the ground, I'm willing to test this kit for the sake of the people who are looking for a cheaper alternative to expensive kits.

As for the tuning part. Are you talking about having it tuned with a piggback? Or simply just retarding the timing so it doesn't detonate? Because I know it can be run like that literally bolted on, but I've researched and saw that it is so much better to have an emanage tuned to the turbo kit, which is why i'm still considering the Greddy kit since it actually comes with the piggyback unit.

[aimre]

if you run 4-6 psi, you don't ahve to do the internals.
BUT get a compentent tuner, that knows what his doing.
you could go nuts on internals and make it still blow if the tuning is ****ed.
lol.
plus from what people say here, ebay kits are rubbish,
try source your own parts, or get a kit that has a reputation for being good.


More like 12 psi.

ppl in the states are doing over 200fwkw with standard internals, all they get is ARP head studs

[destrukshn]

lol, i'm just stating what he wanted to run.

[aimre]

lol, i'm just stating what he wanted to run.

Fair enough

Ebay kits ARE RUBBISH, but it would be ok to try, there might need some re-welds on the manifold after a while, its not just going to explode.
So whats handeling the fuel? Without considering this, this kit may not be as cheap as first though



And you aint getting 150kw with only 4-6 psi. Youll get around what a b16 gets, around 100kw.

[Q_ball]

And you aint getting 150kw with only 4-6 psi. Youll get around what a b16 gets, around 100kw.

How did you come to that conclusion?
There is one D16 civic in Sydney, tuned to 6-8psi (cant remember exact number) that is pulling over 130kw atw.
6 psi can get you MUCH more than 100kw.

[destrukshn]

How did you come to that conclusion?
There is one D16 civic in Sydney, tuned to 6-8psi (cant remember exact number) that is pulling over 130kw atw.
6 psi can get you MUCH more than 100kw.
yups.
=)

[aimre]

Coz his kits go no engine management. Whats he gonna use? An FMU?

6psi on one turbo ISNT same as 6psi on another. When will ppl understand?

[Muzz]

Youll get around what a b16 gets, around 100kw.


6psi on one turbo ISNT same as 6psi on another. When will ppl understand?

:zip:

[Q_ball]

Coz his kits go no engine management. Whats he gonna use? An FMU?

6psi on one turbo ISNT same as 6psi on another. When will ppl understand?

Mate, have you even dealt with a turbo application personally?
When running such a minimal amount of boost, its not so much an issue of what management he uses, but more so the tune - tuner.
If 6 psi is capable of 130+, it should be achievable for most cars so long as the tuner is competent and reliable.
There shouldnt be a variance of 30 odd kws.
If there is, then you should seriously start questioning your tuner's capabilities.

[Q_ball]

Btw, stock as a rock b16a motors pull roughly 90-95kw atw.

If you apply 6 whole psi's worth of boost, and only achieve a measly 5kws to have 100 atw as u mentioned aimre, that alone should ring huge alarm bells.

[fatboyz39]

SOHC vtec with 4-6 psi will net you abouts 100-110 kw atw depending on dyno's. IMO do a b series swap.

[hayashi_1986]

Well I'm after forced induction due to the cost of dropping an entire new engine into my car. I've been quoted from 3000-3500 just for the front cut. A decent turbo setup running 6 psi (minimum) with a piggyback unit will only cost upward of 2000 and I'm capable of doing it myself aside from the tuning. So that's a pretty big price difference. Keep in mind, the front cut is sourced from a close friend of mine. It's not s'pose to be a full on drag car, with serious power output. Just something with a little more oomph, and I've got a feeling the b16a conversion won't yield as potential (or future potential) as a turbo set up would. Hence why i'm in the FI section, and not the NA section.

Just my two cents.

[Aza]

honestly as stated ebay kits are SH1T, do the research and by the parts individually, that way u will get exactly what u want and wont get cheap shitty parts. As far as internals the D series will easily take that much boost, i run 7-8psi with no drama's. i know many going around with 10-12 as dailys on stock internals. If u start to get over 250fwhp then u should look at internals, (200 for those who want to be safe). But yeah do the research do it right the first time. also check out d-series.org

[hayashi_1986]

Yeah, after looking at all the replies i've had, i'm going to save up for a GReddy kit, and thats my final decision. Otherwise, I'll look into seperating my purchase to see if I can save on a few of the parts.

All up delivered, I can get the kit for around 3000, and thats without an intercooler. It also includes an eManage unit for plug and play.

Installation wise, I can fit everything myself with what knowledge I have, and possibly ask a few friends to help out as well, so there's another 1000 saved (or thereabouts).

So what do you guys think? A GReddy kit ftw?? :p

Thanks for all the advice fellas!

[hayashi_1986]

Ouch, I just checked out D-Series.org and had a look at the cheap ebay stuff, and customer's experiences. Those are some nasty cracks appearing all over the manifold PLUS one dude had emptied out a tonne of oil just by starting the car with the turbo. He took it out, and BAM! everything's fine again.

Hmmm...I'm so glad I didn't click that Buy It Now! button. :P

[SLOWEGG]

How did you come to that conclusion?
There is one D16 civic in Sydney, tuned to 6-8psi (cant remember exact number) that is pulling over 130kw atw.
6 psi can get you MUCH more than 100kw.

He was running an AVO kit with a microtech i think.. got 138kw and ran 13.3 on his cxi.

[Aza]

i havnt heard that much from greddy kits, except that there e-management system isnt that great. If ur going to buy a kit AT LEAST by a decent ecu to go with it

[Q_ball]

He was running an AVO kit with a microtech i think.. got 138kw and ran 13.3 on his cxi.

Not sure who that was man, but there you go, another example to my cause!!
Thank you :thumbsup:

[hayashi_1986]

Okay, so far, the GReddy kit seems like a-go. After talking to an experienced tuner and good friend of mine (does anyone know BT1J3T? The 8 second VL w/ RB26DETT?), he says the GReddy kit seems like the best cost/performance kit around, aside from the eManager, but then he went on to say that this piggyback should do the job for low boost applications.

Any comments on what my mate thinks?

[aimre]

Mate, have you even dealt with a turbo application personally?


Yes...

HAve you? Or did you give a mechanic $10,000 to put a SSS Autochrome kit on your car?


When running such a minimal amount of boost, its not so much an issue of what management he uses, but more so the tune - tuner.
If 6 psi is capable of 130+, it should be achievable for most cars so long as the tuner is competent and reliable.
There shouldnt be a variance of 30 odd kws.
If there is, then you should seriously start questioning your tuner's capabilities.

How the hell do you tune a car with no engine management eh?
Now, he has a few options with this, cheapest being a FMU which isnt very tunable at all.

Then he could spend more for standalone or piggyback + tune, but that makes that kit not as worth while as first expected.


Btw, stock as a rock b16a motors pull roughly 90-95kw atw.

If you apply 6 whole psi's worth of boost, and only achieve a measly 5kws to have 100 atw as u mentioned aimre, that alone should ring huge alarm bells.

The guy has a D16 NOT a b series. I was saying with that kit and low boost, it would yeild him around 100kw which is around what a b16 (the comon engine swap for his chassis) would get. Our d engines have like what, 70 atw??? a 30kw gain is quiet good.


He was running an AVO kit with a microtech i think.. got 138kw and ran 13.3 on his cxi.


Not sure who that was man, but there you go, another example to my cause!!
Thank you:thumbsup:

Yeah, He also had 550cc Fuel injectors, Walbro fuel pump, 2.5 inch exhaust, front mount and ran 10 psi boost.

He got
Last pass 13.885 @ 98.11 mph on radials



and got

http://members.optusnet.com.au/%7Eterroristone/mypic43.JPG

[Q_ball]

aimre,

Apologies for mis-reading, hence all that b16a rubbish i posted is useless.
You are right in saying that 30kw more is considerable amount,
But, like i said b4, its not when a 6-8psi setup has produced a 130+kw atw d16yX motor for under 5k.

Regarding comments about my setup, you dont know 1/2 of what went on, so i'd advise you to keep to yourself about my car.

[aimre]

aimre,

Apologies for mis-reading, hence all that b16a rubbish i posted is useless.
You are right in saying that 30kw more is considerable amount,
But, like i said b4, its not when a 6-8psi setup has produced a 130+kw atw d16yX motor for under 5k.

Regarding comments about my setup, you dont know 1/2 of what went on, so i'd advise you to keep to yourself about my car.

Regarding your setup, i might not know 1/2 of what went on, i just know whats on your 3 threads about your car. With that statement, i wasnt questioning your car, i was questioning your knowledge.


..i dunno n e thin bout turbs and installin turbs so i cant pull off a DIY..

ANYWAY.

You keep saying someone in a cxi got 138kw on 6-8psi of boost, for less than $5000.

It actually was 10psi and the avo kit was $4200 WITHOUT shipping or and ecu or a tune. So it will be more than $5k.
And not to mention, the kid wants to run


I'm really only looking to run 4-6psi boost. Nothing more nothing less.


not 6-8 or even 10 like the guy in the cxi ran.

4-6 psi, no injectors or fuel pump, with a basic tune, or a base map, will only yeild about 100kw. Which is what both kits he suggested (ebay [although no managment] and the greddy) have.

[Q_ball]

^I am not referring to the CXi you're referring to man, i know this person, and he drives an EJ8.
Get it right!

As for your quote, can you pick something a little older?
I know 300x more things than i did back then.
If lack of knowledge in the past is a crime as opposed to what someone knows now, then sue me.

[aimre]

^I am not referring to the CXi you're referring to man, i know this person, and he drives an EJ8.
Get it right!

As for your quote, can you pick something a little older?
I know 300x more things than i did back then.
If lack of knowledge in the past is a crime as opposed to what someone knows now, then sue me.

Just showing you know less about what i know, then what i know you know... lol
I think you took it a little to much to heart. I was just questioning your knowledge, just as u questioned mine.

What i was trying to show, was that yes, it can be done, but its not as easy as you make it out to be. If he gets any of those kits he mentioned, he wont be making that power, on that psi, with only the kit.

Again, 6psi with one set up is NOT the same as 6psi with another

[hayashi_1986]

Hmmm...I don't know if pursuing my next question will fuel the fire or extinguish it...either way I need to ask.

Currently I have a 2 1/4" exhaust system. Will I need a 2 1/2" exhaust system to adequately run this system? The current system is also press bent.

[aimre]

If its press bent its rubbish.

3 inch mandrel bend
http://www.rjcustompiping.com/manpip1.gif

3 inch press bend
http://www.rjcustompiping.com/manpip2.gif

But you can run it no problems, but there will be gains upgrading.

[hayashi_1986]

Sweet, that's all I needed to know. What sort of gains are we talking about with 3" mandrel bent? Or rather in this case, 2 1/2" mandrel bent?

Also, how far can the eManage handle boost to?

[aimre]

Its not really boost an emanage cant handle, its injector size. Only do up to 150% over stock i believe.

[tRipitaka]

He was running an AVO kit with a microtech i think.. got 138kw and ran 13.3 on his cxi.

i believe it's a guy in melbourne with that setup.. green cxi.

[pornstar]

Its not really boost an emanage cant handle, its injector size. Only do up to 150% over stock i believe.

better get ur facts right on that one...

[hayashi_1986]

Yeh, i've read that the eManage isn't very tune specific, and can't handle a lot of things that other stand-alones (or even freeware ROM tuning software can). I know for a fact that Uberdata can handle larger injector sizes, and more boost too. It's just a matter of tuning the boost section of the fuel maps, plus retarding the timing accordingly.

But I guess I won't worry too much until it needs more boost.

[aimre]

better get ur facts right on that one...


Notice how i didnt try to pass that off as fact??



Its not really boost an emanage cant handle, its injector size. Only do up to 150% over stock i believe.


Its just my current understanding without looking into it

But how about you clear things up then? Instead of just pointing out whats wrong?

[superR]

in relation to ecu choice ......i know from experience a wrx Apexi Power FC ecu can be pluged strait in....and some how it works lol. i dont know why/how, but it does.


How did you come to that conclusion?
There is one D16 civic in Sydney, tuned to 6-8psi (cant remember exact number) that is pulling over 130kw atw.
6 psi can get you MUCH more than 100kw.

i can vouch for this comment .....i suspect it was a blue ek? i installed the turbo setup on it..... and we did it for around the 4k mark.
He made 131kw at the wheels on around 7psi , tuned at toda.....i was lucky enough to get a drive of it....i thought it went awesom for a D series, it would probably keep up (if not beat) wrx's and the likes. The only thing that didnt hold up was the stock clutch....lol

I still think swap to a twin cam vtec, and then turboing it is the better option.... but if money is a great factor in your decision, turbo the D16.
Its alot of fun to drive and you can get away with it pretty cheap if you get the right parts from the right people, and as previously said its all in the the tune. I also have a theory of kw hours....the higher the power on a stock engine.....the less life expectancy it has.

james

[aimre]

in relation to ecu choice ......i know from experience a wrx Apexi Power FC ecu can be pluged strait in....and some how it works lol. i dont know why/how, but it does.



i can vouch for this comment .....i suspect it was a blue ek? i installed the turbo setup on it..... and we did it for around the 4k mark.
He made 131kw at the wheels on around 7psi , tuned at toda.....i was lucky enough to get a drive of it....i thought it went awesom for a D series, it would probably keep up (if not beat) wrx's and the likes. The only thing that didnt hold up was the stock clutch....lol

I still think swap to a twin cam vtec, and then turboing it is the better option.... but if money is a great factor in your decision, turbo the D16.
Its alot of fun to drive and you can get away with it pretty cheap if you get the right parts from the right people, and as previously said its all in the the tune. I also have a theory of kw hours....the higher the power on a stock engine.....the less life expectancy it has.

james

Hey man, could tell us what mods u did exactly. Im genuinly interested.

[superR]

cas manifold
garret BB GT2871 (the one and the same from my old setup)
3inch dump (and we kept aircon!)
2inch from the dump back (didnt really wanna spent the extra dosh for the extra kw's)
300x75x600 cooler with 2.5inch cooler pipes
my old RC 550cc injectors (bit of over kill but non the less cheap for his setup)
ummm oh and a apexi turbo timer ;) lol
Used power FC froma wrx

[Q_ball]

^I forgot it was you James, that helped my mate out lol
Wouldve called on you a long time ago!

[superR]

lol yeh ... thats me alrighty

[hayashi_1986]

Hmmm...that's really intersting to see a wrx powerfc working in a civic:S And it's full standalone unit as well! At least I'll know which ecu to get if the eManage can't handle what I'd like to do to it later on.

Speaking of injector sizes. If the eManage can only handle 150% bigger injectors than stock then i'll be looking to get 360cc MAX right? Even then, these'd still be quite ok for a little more boost say...10psi? Not to mention a walbro high-flow fuel pump.

Contrary to that, I will have to splurge more money on forged engine internals to strengthening it.

Are these steps really necessary if I do intend to get to 10psi MAX?: Block guard (or sleeves), decked head, stronger gaskets (ie. cometic)...only to name a few.

[pornstar]

asif wrx power fc james :P

yeah emanage is crap cant do shit, just bin it, actually ill buy it from you for 50 bux.

[hayashi_1986]

Haha, no chance i'll be doing that anytime soon. The original post says that I'm only after small boost for the time being.

I'm probably getting a little ahead of myself anyway...best I get all the other stuff done in the first post before I start talking about bigger boost etc.

[aimre]

No, 220 * 1.50 = 330

220 + 330 = 550cc Biggest u can run.

Have you decided what kit your after?
One thing i have noticed with those other cars running nice numbers on low boost is:

BBt28 + injectors + tune

With the greddy kit, no injectors and base tune, i PROMIS u wont get that much and im sure all will agree with this. If u get a retune and some injectors and up the boost to what those other ppl are running, you will get a power increase, but not quiet as much as those other cars, as their turbos are superior to the td04h 15g.

[hayashi_1986]

I'd like the GReddy kit simply because I probably won't be able to afford any more than that for a long time.

I won't mind using that kit, because as I said...small boost application. I'll be able to source better and bigger injectors no problems, but the tuning i'll have to look around since there aren't many eManage tuners around.

I'd just like to get the car FI'd before I start doing any further modification.

[NeRV]

you should just take your time and research on F/I and collect parts slowly, as you research them, thats if you have the patience and time to do so. Also when it comes down to finding a tuner i think DynoDave is a really highly recommended person.

[hayashi_1986]

Yeah, there's a high probability that if I do search around collect parts, it could end up being MUCH cheaper and believe it or not...more reliable as well if I look at the right parts here and there. Who knows? I might even be able to afford a decent ECU if that goes all well.

[superR]

asif wrx power fc james :P



dude i swear on my car it worked! lol i would have said the same thing if i didnt see it with my own eyes.

[Weq]

asif wrx power fc james :P

yeah emanage is crap cant do shit, just bin it, actually ill buy it from you for 50 bux.

Hey, thats my trick. I started saying that back in 2001 and buying them off the yanks.

PS. your an idiot.

[pornstar]

an idiot for what?

[aimre]

an idiot for what?



yeah emanage is crap cant do shit, just bin it, actually ill buy it from you for 50 bux.

That i believe

Weq used one for a while, and knows exactly what they can/can't do first hand, unlike some others who just believe what they read on the internet.

[pornstar]

oh yea true i only tune them and read about it on the net...

[aimre]

oh yea true i only tune them and read about it on the net...

Only first line was for you, the rest for the masses (meaning evryone else who hates it and doesnt know why)

Im still nuetral though, havent had enough experiance with it yet.

I know there are a few ppl here who do know there stuff about emanage.
Maybe ppl, instead of telling us its shit or good it is, could tell us why its shit or good ecspecialy for use with a turbo.

[hayashi_1986]

emanage is still on my list, even if I'm collecting parts. There's no 2 ways about it, it's just one of the better and cheaper options right now. Otherwise there's the SAFC, which i'm not too keen on although there seem to be more tuners out there.

Right now, i've found a gt28bb turbo for 400 bux. Anyone think this is a good price?

[defect]

bargain for $400, I think you should go for it..

[NeRV]

if its the turbo beastcivic is selling, then his a great guy to deal with :)

[hayashi_1986]

Beastcivic? Nope, I know not of him :)

I might have been under the wrong impression about that turbo btw. I really don't think its a Garrett. They range from 1-1.5k, so I really doubt anyones crazy enough to sell a new one for 400bux...it might just be a T28 Nissan type.

[NeRV]

look in the forsale section for beastcivic his selling a t28 for $400, thats why i thought it was from him.

[serpo]

im so god damn confused I have a D16A8 and I wana buy a cheap turbo kit off ebay, will I need a new computer for only 5 PSI??? and do I need new injectors??? man im so n00b with this stuff

[aimre]

No, u can run stock injectors on 5 psi, just make sure u run 98

[serpo]

No, u can run stock injectors on 5 psi, just make sure u run 98

wats 98???

[serpo]

wats 98???

Its ok im an idiot my mate just told me it meens 98 Octane LMAO im so n00b

[040501912]

HAHAHAHAHAHA !!! DOH!! .. it would be allrite at 5 psi in given .. the injector duty cycle in safe area :p no more above %70-%80
can any body confirm this?

[aimre]

im so god damn confused I have a D16A8 and I wana buy a cheap turbo kit off ebay, will I need a new computer for only 5 PSI??? and do I need new injectors??? man im so n00b with this stuff

You could use a FMU or adjustable fuel reg.... but computer of sorts is better

[serpo]

ye im gonna use an addon chip and hack the ECU seems easyer and its all adjustable by laptop

[040501912]

frankly how american do their set up and mechanics here a way diffrent ..
USA some use vafcII or SafcII configure their fuel
and Msd for timming .. on their turbo or just use FMU ...

over here .. piggy back such as Greddy EMANAGE or unichip (dastek)are on dislikes area .. which i found it very wierd.. they does the the job and cheaper then others..

while Haltech and microtech are in favor coz they where the early comers to australia in ECU managements. which they might have advantages from other brands :)

most tuner know how to tune microtech,haletch, P-FC BUT emanage or unichip they wouldn touch it coz its something they are not good at .. which ends up more charge on dyno tune LOL !!

[serpo]

aww this guy knows what im on about ^^ wooo crome rocks so does hondata