Pinging ... ECU timing maps? H22A

[stocky]

I have a H22A running on a Hondata.

The problem is, the engine is pinging despite completely retarding the physical ignition timing. The timing is currently set at 15 degrees and it is still pinging. This happens on any application of the accelerator. The noise is actual pinging (tinny) as opposed to knocking.

My suspicion is that the ignition maps on the Hondata could be stuffed. Is this possible? If not, what else could be the problem?

Car is running on 98ron and has been running on the same tune for four years.

:(

[stocky]

Also, the noise does get somewhat reduced at full retardation of the distributor.

[DynoDave]

Was this fine and then all of a sudden started to ping,just take it back to who ever tuned it and get them to see if the maps are corrupt.
Regards Dyno Dave

[Mr_will]

hows your o2 sensor? i know its stating the obvious but you could be running lean, perhaps.
could it be a cooling issue? i'd assume you'd know about that from temp gauge though.

if its not either of those then dodgy maps sounds like a solid guess. have you got the stock ecu?

[stocky]

Was this fine and then all of a sudden started to ping,just take it back to who ever tuned it and get them to see if the maps are corrupt.
Regards Dyno Dave

Hi Dave,

Yes, pretty much, out of the blue, it started pinging.

In fact, you and James tuned this car back in the day at Redline. What do you recommend I do? I have it retarded all the way back now so it can drive here and there.

[stocky]

hows your o2 sensor? i know its stating the obvious but you could be running lean, perhaps.
could it be a cooling issue? i'd assume you'd know about that from temp gauge though.

if its not either of those then dodgy maps sounds like a solid guess. have you got the stock ecu?

Hey Will,
The o2 should be good. I also changed spark plugs and everything to make sure. No stock ECU on hand, only Hondata. The Knock Sensor is disabled too.

[DynoDave]

Hi Dave,

Yes, pretty much, out of the blue, it started pinging.

In fact, you and James tuned this car back in the day at Redline. What do you recommend I do? I have it retarded all the way back now so it can drive here and there.
Damn its in another car now if its the one I am thinking about.
Regards Dyno Dave

[booget]

Yep thats the one...

Here it is in its old home:
http://users.tpg.com.au/vuong112/10.jpg

Not sure as of what to do right now.

[stocky]

^ Whoops, that was me. Friend came over my house.

[DynoDave]

I have a H22A running on a Hondata.

The problem is, the engine is pinging despite completely retarding the physical ignition timing. The timing is currently set at 15 degrees and it is still pinging. This happens on any application of the accelerator. The noise is actual pinging (tinny) as opposed to knocking.

My suspicion is that the ignition maps on the Hondata could be stuffed. Is this possible? If not, what else could be the problem?

Car is running on 98ron and has been running on the same tune for four years.

:(
What makes you think its the ECU I would really start looking elsewhere in the car.
Regards Dyno Dave

[TODA AU]

What people need to understand is that ECU’s, especially Hondata units DO NOT go out of tune, period.
Factors in your car CHANGE.
Internet mechanics & tuners such as some people on here are often very quick to blame the tune, when this is WRONG.
Once a ECU is tuned, its tuned, and this is not to say its always going to be perfect.
ECU’s have compensation for environmental factors such as intake temperature, exhaust temperature, primary and secondary oxygen sensors, crank sensors etc all of these sensors feed negative feed back regulation infomation to the ECU regarding environmental conditions. The ECU in all cases are programmed to compensate, what people fail to realize is the compensation is there to keep the engine SAFE not to keep making maximum power all the time. You can’t expect a ECU to perform and out put the same power on a 15deg day vs a 30 deg day, the ECU will compensate making sure the engine is safe but it won’t compensate ensuring you have maximum power. Now with regards to your ignition problem again internet mechanics are very quick to blame the tune. What is not realised is that SOMETHING in your car / engine has changed or gone bad. That something is 99% of the time something OTHER than the ECU.
It could be 101 things. The other thing people often do, is take a engine from one car, and put it in another and expect to use the same tune in the ECU they purchased with the engine.
Unfortunatly many factors have now been changed.
When no error is detected, the ECU assumes everything in your car is in 100% working order.
This includes things like spark plugs, distributor, valve clearances, fuel type, fuel flow, fuel pressure and other environmental factors are within certain limits. If any of these parameters change or go out of the normal operating range then things can & do go wrong.
Maybe your intake isn’t breathing efficiently thus now your not supplying enough air to your engine, maybe your exhaust / cat is blocked and your creating to much back pressure, maybe 1 of the 40+ sensors in your car is giving a false reading but not creating a error, but this false reading is causing catastrophic problems.
Best thing to do is to take your car to an expert and have them diagnose the mechanical problem.
A good place to start is where you had it tuned the first time as they already know your car, there are 3 Hondata dealers in NSW all of them have been chosen because they are experts.
Sure you could RETUNE the car but that’s fixing the problem with a band aid, your changing the tune to suit the new mechanical problems or changes in your car, this is not the way to fix something.
On the other side of this, if mechanical changes are made to the engine, a retune may be required.

[stocky]

Thanks for you insight TODA AU, those assumptions were great.

Anyhow, the car has been running great on this same tune for four years, 1 of these on the new chassis without problem. Again, this pinging is a recent occurance. The biggest clue that leads me to a timing issue is the reduced pinging at the full retarded position.

Can anything else contribute to pinging with such a low degree of physical timing? Again, the car is running fresh 98ron fuel with new plugs, etc.
In your experience Dave, what is the likelihood of the maps being corrupt?

Cheers

[DynoDave]

Thanks for you insight TODA AU, those assumptions were great.

Anyhow, the car has been running great on this same tune for four years, 1 of these on the new chassis without problem. Again, this pinging is a recent occurance. The biggest clue that leads me to a timing issue is the reduced pinging at the full retarded position.

Can anything else contribute to pinging with such a low degree of physical timing? Again, the car is running fresh 98ron fuel with new plugs, etc.
In your experience Dave, what is the likelihood of the maps being corrupt?

Cheers
1 in 100,000 I really think its another issue but anyone that thinks they can work it out over the net is DREAMING.
Regards Dyno Dave

[TODA AU]

Thanks for you insight TODA AU, those assumptions were great.

Anyhow, the car has been running great on this same tune for four years, 1 of these on the new chassis without problem. Again, this pinging is a recent occurance. The biggest clue that leads me to a timing issue is the reduced pinging at the full retarded position.

Can anything else contribute to pinging with such a low degree of physical timing? Again, the car is running fresh 98ron fuel with new plugs, etc.
In your experience Dave, what is the likelihood of the maps being corrupt?

Cheers

The likley problem is a failing fuel pump.
If the engine is now running lean due to failing pump,
Reducing the ignition timing will tend to limit it's tendancy to detonate.
It's also tend to have poor or flat performance with a chance of burning out valves or over heating the engine & causeing more problems.
It may or may not be this. But like Dave said, it'd be 1 in a 100,000 if it's the ECU.
If you're not convinced & feel you need to have the ECU checked,
By all means, contact to Hondata dealer of your choice.
That said, if there's nothing wrong with it, you should expect to pay for the time taken to check it out.

[YBJLS4]

have you tried search?

[Chr1s]

lol..

[aaronng]

Thanks for you insight TODA AU, those assumptions were great.

Anyhow, the car has been running great on this same tune for four years, 1 of these on the new chassis without problem. Again, this pinging is a recent occurance. The biggest clue that leads me to a timing issue is the reduced pinging at the full retarded position.

Can anything else contribute to pinging with such a low degree of physical timing? Again, the car is running fresh 98ron fuel with new plugs, etc.
In your experience Dave, what is the likelihood of the maps being corrupt?

Cheers
Even if the car has been running great for 4 years, that doesn't mean that the car has stayed the same for 4 years. In 4 years, parts wear out, deposits build up, fuel filters block up (have you replaced this btw?). The condition of your mechanical parts change so you should look at those first. The ECU tune does not change as that is flashed in. Saying that it has somehow changed as you used it is like saying that an apple has turned into an orange. It can't. It can only be a whole apple (working) or a squashed apple (in which case you would get error codes from the ECU).

Change the fuel filter if you haven't done so in the past 4 years. Does the pinging start as soon as your start the engine from cold? If it only does it after it has warmed up, I would check for carbon deposits built up in the combustion chamber. The carbon retains heat and when it glows hot, it can cause the fuel mixture to ignite before the spark is generated.

[ECU-MAN]

gold...

[stocky]

rofl, this thread is alive

hondata gone .... problem gone .... fixed

i cant believe that was almost 3 years ago, time does fly

[aaronng]

Hhahaa... damn I forgot to see the date. My bad.

Thread closed.