Alpine Type S Sub, issues

[jeffske]

Hello All,

Just wondering if anyone here has an Alpine Type S sub, and if so have you had any issues with it?

cheers:thumbsup:

[D4rk4n63l]

Got a 12" in my ES and a 10" in my EG no issues... anyways what sort of issues are you expecting of a sub anyway? if you run it per manufacturer spec I can't see why would you see any issues at all...

[jeffske]

hey, well I had my system installed late last year and it was running fine (no issues what so ever). then last Tuesday im cruising home and it starts to "pop" so i deactivate the sub from the HU. I take it to the guys who installed it for me and they had a look at it, at first they said it sounded like a dropped voice coil but when they pulled it apart they said I fried it.
They arranged with alpine to replace it (usually theyre not replaced under warranty if they're "fried") but i told him i dont take it past a certain point on the volume control so i dont know wtf is wrong with it. they switched the sub over with a new one on saturday and tuned it all for me, driving home last nite and it starts to make that popping noise again so i deactivate the sub again.....

[lilwilliam]

hey, well I had my system installed late last year and it was running fine (no issues what so ever). then last Tuesday im cruising home and it starts to "pop" so i deactivate the sub from the HU. I take it to the guys who installed it for me and they had a look at it, at first they said it sounded like a dropped voice coil but when they pulled it apart they said I fried it.
They arranged with alpine to replace it (usually theyre not replaced under warranty if they're "fried") but i told him i dont take it past a certain point on the volume control so i dont know wtf is wrong with it. they switched the sub over with a new one on saturday and tuned it all for me, driving home last nite and it starts to make that popping noise again so i deactivate the sub again.....

check your rca cables mine was loose before and it made a poping sound, i put it back in and it was all fine :P

[D4rk4n63l]

What amp are u using? the voice coil wont fried itself out of nowhere... check the amp grounding and the input sensitivity gain. If the guy who installed it know what he's doing then he would've check that too. My guess is that one of your amp channel is busted or making short hence clipping the sub at high voltage... can't tell for sure without looking tho

[teaseR]

amp is gone... same problem with my brothers soundstream stuff... fried his sub then borrowed mine and did the same without knowing its the amp... mine went too

[D4rk4n63l]

mine went too

your amp or sub? there is a chance that if you fried the v/c of the sub with the first amp and then trying to run it again with the second amp, it will fry that too..

[teaseR]

the sub went because of the amp...
then tried it in my car... the amp was fine but sub never worked again =(

[jeffske]

I have a clarion monoblock powering the sub, i wont know until this sat whats wrong with it because i dont have time to go during the week
he said next time the sub goes i have to pay for it....=(
im thinking of just ditching the sub, speakers dont give me any problems
p.s. not sure if this helps but the person who re-installed my sub powered down the amp to prevent any "blow outs"

[D4rk4n63l]

under powering a sub can also blow the v/c

[NightKids]

haha Clarion amps, i guess there's your problem!

LOL jk, yeah check that it's not the amp mate or else it'll keep doing it!

[integraz]

and also overpowering can kill it..
what clarion mono do you have? how much power?

Where have you set your gains?

And how loud do you "crank it" ie/ whats the volume range.. 38/40? etc etc

[jeffske]

unsure which model it is...? i dont know much about systems thats why i got it done by the store
on my first sub i never took it passed 20 on the HU (for all of those who have alpine HU, you will know they go to at least 30, unsure because im not game to go passed 20)
after the 2nd sub was installed and retuned i was told i can go up to 28 on most recordings but i still didnt go passed 20 because it was decent enough
i hope its covered by warranty, the whole install cost close to 3k

[integraz]

well you don't know how much power the mono has?
Have a look at the model number.. should be on the amp itself..

Well i don't think it was a headunit clipped signal though...

When you say popping, did it pop once... then never played anything again..

Or does it pop at certain bass lines, or at loud volumes but still plays music?

[jeffske]

there "popping" noise is constant, the sound can be compared to a loose "screw" vibrating to the bass in the sub (thats what i thought it was, im n00b)
the amp is APX1300 monoblock

p.s. says 400watts on the box if that helps

[jeffske]

update
So i had the amp + sub replaced (both brand new) done on Saturday. Happily pumping away all day Saturday and I start the car to drive to work on Sunday and no bass at all...none/zilch...
I have a custom sub box installed
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/shuttervision/Image006.jpg
does anyone think this MAY be the problem?? just doesnt make sense, it was all working fine for about 4months then all this bs

[teaseR]

nice sub box!!!

[integraz]

nice.. i really like it, where did you get it done? and how much did it set you back for the custom fibreglass box.?

[jeffske]

nice.. i really like it, where did you get it done? and how much did it set you back for the custom fibreglass box.?

I had it all done at Cronulla Car Audio (they're based in Sutherland), the sub box alone cost me $250
If you're interested, their number is 9545 5577 (ask for Owen, he's usually in after 9:30am)
im happy with their service, just a bit peeved at the sub just shitting itself 3 times....they give lifetime warranty on all their installations and they're pretty efficient

p.s. so does anyone reckon the sub box is the issue? if so i'll just can the sub all together

[Jord]

the amp would be causing the poping noise mine blew up my old sub and when i ran it on 2 channels to run splits it held the speakers out too... no idea wt exactly does it on the amp or if u can fix it. sub just stopping would be a wiring fault i imagine.. wouldnt be the sub itself. uve had some troubles mate gl with it :)

[jeffske]

thanks Jord, i need it

[integraz]

hmm well i don't think anything is wrong with the amp, cause thats an average quality amp, nothing special, but does the job and is reliable.

Not sure what the real problem is, and also Jord, you can't run splits from this mono amp.. and also it doesnt have 2 channels ... its a one channel amp.

But we'll see how this setup goes again, if it happens again, then i would think its got to do with wiring, headunit, installer/user error, not the components itself...


edit: and thanks for the info about the box, looks good, I might head down to Doran and see what they will quote me.

[Jord]

Not sure what the real problem is, and also Jord, you can't run splits from this mono amp.. and also it doesnt have 2 channels ... its a one channel amp.

.

yea i know mate.. i was saying that this happened to my AMP which is a 2 channel jaycar that i run bridged for my sub :thumbsup: if it just stopped working it would most likely b a wiring prob. follow the wires within the sub box and see if there stil connected make sure ur grounds for ur amp are all secure and check the RCA's in both the amp and your headunit :)

[jeffske]

update, they took out the sub and the box today. they measured the cubic capacity by filling up the entire box with water....doesnt seem the right way to do it to me (im sure they could calculate it using some maths theorems)
anyways they think the box doesnt have enough cubic capacity to take the sub so they need to run a software diagnostic thingie to tune it or someshit

[m3ntAL_l2]

woooaha??? why would it be teh box?? :S :S
i hav a type s sub with a 400w clarion mono block no prob so far... :/

[DANMAN]

If the sub is in a sealed enclosure it will only be able to compress the air in the box so far.If it has a lot of back pressure and you try to force it to run louder (more excursion than the box will allow) or there is not enough air to circulate through the subs cooling ports/vents the voice coils will burn.That would have to be an extremely small box and your box looks big enough in the pics.Check the settings on the amp.Don't take the gain past 2/3 or the x-over past 120Hz and make sure the low pass filter is switched on. Also if there is a subsonic filter switch it on also. Make sure the sub is a dual 4 + 4 ohm sub with the coils wired in parallel. If it is a 2 + 2 in parallel then I'd be surprised your car hasn't burnt to the ground yet.By the look of the install the guys who did it know what they are doing so it may just be a dud amp. A faulty transistor or power supply in the amp is all it takes to send DC through the coil and burn it. Although the clarion amps are rated at decent power I would be more inclined to use an Alpine MRD-M450.

[jeffske]

If the sub is in a sealed enclosure it will only be able to compress the air in the box so far.If it has a lot of back pressure and you try to force it to run louder (more excursion than the box will allow) or there is not enough air to circulate through the subs cooling ports/vents the voice coils will burn.That would have to be an extremely small box and your box looks big enough in the pics.Check the settings on the amp.Don't take the gain past 2/3 or the x-over past 120Hz and make sure the low pass filter is switched on. Also if there is a subsonic filter switch it on also. Make sure the sub is a dual 4 + 4 ohm sub with the coils wired in parallel. If it is a 2 + 2 in parallel then I'd be surprised your car hasn't burnt to the ground yet.By the look of the install the guys who did it know what they are doing so it may just be a dud amp. A faulty transistor or power supply in the amp is all it takes to send DC through the coil and burn it. Although the clarion amps are rated at decent power I would be more inclined to use an Alpine MRD-M450.

sweet, thanks for the info :thumbsup:
they said theyre going to call me later next week once they run some diagnostic shit so see what happens
certainly not impressed for the money i spent though

[theseven]

huhu... got the same problem as you.. the subs keep popping after along drive though... a long drive and bumpy road... not sure still what's wrong with it... changed the HU to go with the better ones... still got that kinda problems... although not that often anymore... it's wierd...

please keep posting what's the result from ur end it's gonna be really helpfull to me...

i'm running clarion subs with response 2 chanel 300 wrms... match up power according to the specs teoritically... hehe

[DANMAN]

Impedance matching is generally the biggest killer for amps. It's not just a case of adding more and more subs to one amplifier. That will usually result in a fire. Make sure the Jaycar is 2 ohm stable in bridged mode (not likely) if you are running 2 Clarion 4 ohm subs in parallel. Most amps that are 2 ohm stable are single channel mono blocks. If you want to run 2 subs off a mono block amp you will need 2 x 4 ohm subwoofers wired in parallel as a 2 ohm load. If the Clarion subs you have are 2 ohm, they can be wired in series bridged off your Jaycar amp. For power matching you are better off going over board. For example, to run a 300 Watt RMS subwoofer you should be using a 400 Watt RMS amplifier. That's RMS not boss audio "peak" 8 billion watt bulls@#t ratings. That way you can run the sub to it's full potential without worrying about the amplifier clipping or shutting down from thermal overloads.
Alpine, focal, eclipse and AVI amplifiers are among some of the better units as it comes down to a lot more than sheer power to make a real amplifier.
As the saying goes, "oils aint oils" same as amps aren't amps. Check for THD (total harmonic distorion) levels, signal to noise ratio's, damping factors, frequency response, x-over networks etc. Holy poo! I just realised how much I've written. I can go into more detail as to why these features matter if anyone is interested.

[jeffske]

the guys at the caraudio place are baffled, they told me they've done heaps of installations with the alpine sub/clarion amp combo and im the ONLY one who's come back at all
they deducted that it has to be the box
p.s. my head unit isnt a cheapy either (well cheap compared to the lcd screen ones) it was $470

[theseven]

@danman

so u mean most likely that my amps is finish?!?

[DANMAN]

Thats what it sounds like. Could also be dodgy RCA leads. We have seen a few Jaycar amps here at work for repair. Some with dud capacitors and some with dry joints on the PCB. In most cases they aren't worth repair seeing as they aren't a particularly good amp in comparison to what else you can get for a few more dollars (No offence). We generally just replace them with Alpine amps since they start at $199 these days and are a hell of a lot more reliable.

[theseven]

but fyi, it doesn't happen all the time... it happens after a long drive ( audio on for so long) and the road is bumpy... i feels like more to the connection of the rca's or something... but i tried to swap and try everything but it still like that... might it be the internal parts that's loose or something??

[DANMAN]

Sometimes faults are heat related. After the amp has been on for a while components heat up and their tolerances change. For example a 2500 ohm resistor will change in restistance as its temperature gets hotter or colder. This is why you will see on electronics items spec sheets "do not operate under 2 degrees or over 60 degrees for example. The amplifier obviously has a faulty component which is playing up when it's warm. Which is probably the exact same problem we have found in them before. The electrolyte inside the capacitors can dry up causing heat related problems and dry joints can cause the same. Unfortunately any heat related dry joints are usually time consuming to find hence an uneconomical repair.

[theseven]

hmmm make sense... shaa***tt... i need to save up to buy a monoblock then... :zip: thx for the info... i'll see how it goes first... but it's nothing to do with the subs right?!?

[DANMAN]

I doubt it. If you get a chance try another amp in it. Wherever you get the new amp from, make sure they know the impedance and power ratings (in RMS) of the subs you have and how many you are running.

[theseven]

yea i'll see if i can try out the amp first... the problem now is the mounting since i got the boot setup already and not much space left at all... went to see an amp today but the amp that can run my sub safely got really big sizes...

[theseven]

ended up trying a new mono... just installed yesterday.. hope it fix it... let u guys know soon..

[theseven]

hi guys... it all seems fine now for me... changing the monoblock.. thx for the advice! really helpfull!