Pre-Tuned ECU swap over a standard

[nossss]

Hey guys,

just wondering if anyone of you would know the details of a pre-tuned ECU bought from a reputable brand, for J's Racing JDM B18c OBD2 P73 ECU, cause have some idea that the fuel maps and ignition has been changed but what else.. i need information about this ECU... thanks guys

[bennjamin]

here is info on the SPOON replacement ECU.


Sports Computer 1.6/1.8 DOHC Vtec
Spoon collated data relating to, fuel consumption, ignition timing, exhaust emissions, aging. Taking these parameters to develop a highly advanced program to achieve improved power.Extensive track tests were carried out to achieve a specification which would allow for increased output, better performance and greatly improved torque figures.Further parameters were added to have a wider range of conditions, taking into consideration new additions from the Spoon range of parts. Through this programming maximum performance would be achieved with out the need to reprogram the ECU.


basically yes , it runs richer and more ignition timing and a higher redline to benefit for "likely" bolt on parts ( CAI / header etc).
These pre-tuned ECU's are really the ultimate "bolt on" addition.

[XB-16-AX]

just to add,

also the speed limiter would also be removed and sometimes the knock sensors are disabled also.

the usual stuff like ignition and fuel maps are enhanced, and the rev limiter removed and extended as mentioned by bennjamin.

yet still a full programmable ECU is the best way to go! :p

[bennjamin]

yup - the SPOON or MUGEN or J's racing etc etc standalone ECU's , suit bolt on mods only and will give only a certain "gain".

As above get a proper TUNEABLE ecu ( powerFC , hondata etc) for a simialr price and tuneablilty to YOUR application :)

[poid]

keeping in mind, a genuine Spoon etc ECU costs rather a lot of money and not all that many people use them. Make sure you arent getting a chipped ECU with an eBay chip inserted instead.

I'd always go for something that is programmable

[VT3C]

all valid points.. but if you have nobody locally that you can trust to tune your honda, there are advantages in a fixed-state ECU.

Personally i'd rather have an ECU that was tuned by Spoon/J's/Feels etc than have any local tuner do some trial-and-error on MY motor.

Consider that spoon for example ONLY tunes N/A Honda motors yet your local tuner is used to doing WRX, Skylines, 180Sx etc.. so does he REALLY know how to look after your honda motor ?

so in essence, a fully tunable ECU is the best approach to take only if you have a cmpetant tuner. and you must reaslise fixed-state ECU's are not meant for ultimate power gains etc. they are a balanced tune of reliability, improved tourque nad the other features listed above - usually designed for track use NOT how-big-is-your-penis max HP gains.

[Jarkz]

Well put VT3C.... Could'nt agree more.

[ginganggooly]

A Plug and Pray ecu would be of little, if any benefit unless you modify your car exactly the way the designer of the map intended. The chances are that you'll run slightly different bolt-ons, have slightly different internals, different atmospheric conditions, and different god knows what else, to what was intended for the particular map.

I don't like the idea of being bound to one particular combination of components one little bit, and this is precisely the situation you will be placed in if you forked out your hard earned on a program designed by any of our fine japanese bretheren.

My advice is to find a tuner that has proven themselves to be a competant tuner, with a good record, and proven street and track results and use them to tune the ecu as per your individual requirements.

[VT3C]

yeah agreed, but I did say that a programmable ECU is the best option IF YOU HAVE A TUNER YOU CAN TRUST LOCALLY but we're over in Perth and nobody can REALLY tune Hondas and I doubt there's that many competant tuners over east either who are dedicated or suitably experienced with Hondas. You got a couple that pop up on here etc but is so hard and expensive to get hold of these guys.

The spoon ECU I am running nw is actually my second chipped ECU. the first was on my SOHC VTEC and was an unknown origin chip. The butt-dyno(TM) told me there was great mid range gains.. when we dyno tested the ECU vs stock ECU the stock ECU actually had 1Kw more peak power, however the Chipped ECU had much more mid-range power and torque. If you're up for a penis-measuremeant contenst then that'd mean that the stock ECU is your best option, but if you off to the track, i think the chipped version would be your friend.

If you DO get a fixed-tune ECU, i would recommend that you got to your local dyno and have the Air-Fuel ratios checked. you mainly dont want to be running lean, and if it's too rich you'll lose power and serves no usefull purpose.

People on here have told me stories of (for example) spoon ECU's on people's cars running super rich etc. well the ECU needs to be matched to your motor code and ou DO need to consider the other modification parameters that the ECU has been tuned for. Most chipped ECU's assume you already have I/H/E and most people wouldnt need an ECU untill these mods have been done anyway. but this whole Ozhonda attitude of "DONT GET A FIXED TUNE ECU" is just parannoia driven by market trends.

make your own decision based on the information available to you. If someone say "Dont do this.." ask them WHY !?!?!?! so much of oz honda's technical posting is done from people's internet-sourced opinions rather than through their own personal experience.

Unfortunately there isnt a whole lot of tuners that specialise in N/A hondas in Australi compared to the united states or asia so sometimes it might be the best option to take advantage of another option.

so in conclusiopn (hahah) a chipped ECU IS very limited and may not adapt to your mods but you need to consider that your tuned ECU is only as good as your tuner.. and by the way HONDATA are basically just chipped ECU's anyway.. you cannot alter the parameters yourself without a full-retune etc. yes i am aware you can upgrade your Hondata to enable some live tunable features but to set that tune you still have to produce another fixed-state chip :D

also beware of the chips you ARE getting.. a $2 eBay 'spoon chip' aint nescesarilly what it claims.. as with most things in life you get what you pay for :D and a poorly tuned chip - or a mismatched chip COULD do a lot of damage to your engine - just the same as if an incompetant tuner takes to your car also.

[locote]

What gains did u get out of ur ECU VT3C???

[VT3C]

havnt dyno'd yet.. am waiting to fit cam-gears and maybe cams before i go to dyno. butt-dyno(TM) gains are pretty substantial - noticably faster than previously in relation to benchmark cars ;) and definately improved my 1/4 mile times. but this is on combination with all my other new parts also.

is definately not running rich tho - fuel ecconomy is only slightly worse than stock ECU. much more torque than before etc. am slightly concerned that it may be too lean if anything but i doubt it.

Stock ECU had me dumping a fair whack of fuel out the exhaust pipe under load at high RPM however the Spoon ECU puts out a lot less smoke - almost none... ..

but sorry to get off topic to the thread owner...

[locote]

how much improvement over 1/4 mile u get???

[ginganggooly]

so in conclusiopn (hahah) a chipped ECU IS very limited and may not adapt to your mods but you need to consider that your tuned ECU is only as good as your tuner.. and by the way HONDATA are basically just chipped ECU's anyway.. you cannot alter the parameters yourself without a full-retune etc. yes i am aware you can upgrade your Hondata to enable some live tunable features but to set that tune you still


Hondatas are still tuned in real time. It's just that you burn the chip when you're satisfied with the results... It's as far removed from best guess style chip tuning as you can get. Provided the tuner keeps the maps -and i know DynoDave does- the option to modify the map for new mods is always there. In fact, this is what has been going on in my own car for about 4 years now :)

I guess the situation is a little tough over in the west at the moment since there isn't much in the way of support... i guess you don't have alot of options. Aside from learning how to tune yourself anyway ;)

[DynoDave]

Hondatas are still tuned in real time. It's just that you burn the chip when you're satisfied with the results... It's as far removed from best guess style chip tuning as you can get. Provided the tuner keeps the maps -and i know DynoDave does- the option to modify the map for new mods is always there. In fact, this is what has been going on in my own car for about 4 years now :)

I guess the situation is a little tough over in the west at the moment since there isn't much in the way of support... i guess you don't have alot of options. Aside from learning how to tune yourself anyway ;)
S300 Hondata and a good wideband setup and he will be able to trim a good map himself to suit his setup,as there is no need to burn chips its just program on the run.
Regards Dyno Dave

[VT3C]

S300 Hondata and a good wideband setup and he will be able to trim a good map himself to suit his setup,as there is no need to burn chips its just program on the run.
Regards Dyno Dave

Interesting.. will have to look into this further.. and yeah i was aware of the process that the rom is tuned live then the program burnt onto the chip.. but that was my point that essentially it's a chipped ecu with the chip being tuned for your car.. so it is a good option i CAN see the advantages but the biggest disadvantage is that we have no tuner over here as I said.

am not dissing the capabilities of Hondata - dont get me wrong.. but we must be clear to those who are jsut looking at ECU options that perhaps the Hondata units are only good if you have access to a competent tuner etc.

but IF you have access to one of these tuners (like dyno dave etc) then yes you got a great option - can be tuned for track reliability and balance OR max HP whatever your purpose is.. jsut depends on the skills of the tuner. .bla bla bla..

will still keep the spoon ECU as i believe it still has a lot of potential but after i install cams i MAY reconsider my ECU option to something that is completely tunable if I am not happy with the result.

[ginganggooly]

How about a full standalone with local support?

[locote]

If some one is capable of tuning a number of car that run 10 11 12 sec passes even a car that runs a 9 sec pass im pretty sure they can tune B series hondas, with the ECU they specialise in am i not right???

[VT3C]

no you are not right.

that's like saying someone that tunes V8 supercars or lawnmowers can also tune a honda engine.

Locote you need to learn there is a lot more to engine management and tuning than fast 1/4 mile times and max HP figures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyone can build one and "tune" it but if it blows up on the dyno or at the track etc.. then you have your answer.

[ginganggooly]

no you are not right.

that's like saying someone that tunes V8 supercars or lawnmowers can also tune a honda engine.

Locote you need to learn there is a lot more to engine management and tuning than fast 1/4 mile times and max HP figures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyone can build one and "tune" it but if it blows up on the dyno or at the track etc.. then you have your answer.

Mate, given locote's experience with powerfc, and a turbo vtec, he's the last person to need a lecture from an Ozhonda member about what constitutes a good tune(r) :wave:

At the end of the day, my observation from having spent hours upon hours sitting in the passenger seat watching tuners tune a variety of cars and ecu's, they rely on the same principles from car to car, and ecu to ecu. The experience levels they have with certain combinations of ecu/mods/motor helps make the job a little quicker, but given time and patience, there is no reason why they can't work out what works with what they're given....
Tuning is tuning, if you take a good tuner with little or no experience on hondas, he'd be able to learn to tune a honda too.

[locote]

no you are not right.

that's like saying someone that tunes V8 supercars or lawnmowers can also tune a honda engine.

Locote you need to learn there is a lot more to engine management and tuning than fast 1/4 mile times and max HP figures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyone can build one and "tune" it but if it blows up on the dyno or at the track etc.. then you have your answer.

So you spend 1000s of dollars to NOT get max HP from your car???
If a car doesnt have the power to accelerate quick going in a straight line how is it suppose to when u add bends and twists???

[locote]

no you are not right.

that's like saying someone that tunes V8 supercars or lawnmowers can also tune a honda engine.

Locote you need to learn there is a lot more to engine management and tuning than fast 1/4 mile times and max HP figures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyone can build one and "tune" it but if it blows up on the dyno or at the track etc.. then you have your answer.

Even if this person has tuned a turbo rotor, GTRs, and a 600hp NA LS1.
But he wouldnt be able to tune a B16a...
Well you can add 2 turbo B18cs to that too since he tuned my setup too.
Took him 2 goes but i was happy with the TUNE no problems at all!!!!

[VT3C]

LOL Locote you dont get it. and you obviously will never get it. I dont know what you're trying to prove on here and every other honda-related forum in the universe but NOBODY CARES !

and ginggangghoolieghoolie you yavnt met locote in person.. and if you call 'experience' paying workshops to do all your work and all of this within a 12 month timeframe.. all based on whatever is the latest internet-trends etc well then Locote is truely experienced.. or is his name *brian* ??

if you encourage having mis-led individuals post technical advice on this forum then that's great but I just hope the newbys arent mislead by the good-ol' Fast'n'Furious attitude that we see in this thread and in many others.

*sigh*

[locote]

VT3C knows all..
BIG LOL..
Mate i know ppl who know u a lot better than me,,, and they dont have anything positive to say bout u...

Only workshop work ive ever had done was my turbo install and tune..
But hey some one like you tunes their own vehicle hey m i not correct???
Has his own mig welder and hoist at home so he never has to pay anyone for work...

Which are tools that i dont poses therefore i did the smart thing and let some one who knew what they were doin fit cut and weld.

me fast and furious who goes to japan and spends 1000s on 1 branded gear???

Why dont u drop into cypher to say hi?? they do alot of work on hondas in WA...
ohh hang on your not welcome there...

I know i dont know all, but at least i dont act like i do...

Please tell me what i dont get???

U telling Mike that he hasnt met me just shows ur ignorance towards knowledge

[Mikeyas]

Mate, given locote's experience with powerfc, and a turbo vtec, he's the last person to need a lecture from an Ozhonda member about what constitutes a good tune(r) :wave:

Mate, He has dropped a whole heap of money into a gsi for drags, then a whole heap of money on a civic, then on a b18c then on a turbo then to sell it weeks later to build the b18c.

The only experience here is handing over wads of cash.... If that amounts to tuning experience.... Then there should be more good tuners out there by your calculations.


You say he'd be able to learn to tune a honda too.

OK so X tuner has no experience in hondas and the program. HE has a starting advantage over joe average now and you are now going to pay him to learn on your car. The point is he doesnt know how to tune the car to its best setting/s.

And so he must learn... Learning takes time and in the tuners case, now time = money


if it was with his own money then go ahead, but whats the bet you are going to pay for his "learning time"

[locote]

Mikeyas who tuned your car???

I spent F all $$ on my GSi and still managed a quiker time than ya..
lol
a KnN filter is loads hey???

[Mikeyas]

Locote, dont go trying to attack ones character.

Your Welcome in any workshop as they know a fool and his money are easily parted.

[locote]

Theres so many shops that have tuned and got great gain out of atmo and F/I hondas in WA..
I dont know what on earth or drugs u pair are on????

[locote]

JOSH u know absolutly nothing about me, nothing about any of my cars and what i have spent..
U making these false claims proves nothing but that u are very ignorant

No need for u to always charge in and try to stick up for vt3c...

[Mikeyas]

Hah, your whole life story is on these forums. Any one can search the error of your ways byan easy "locote" search through all the historical posts.

History will prove ones knowledge of your choices and money blown in the chase of forum glory.

I input just enough for you to put your foot in your mouth.

But incase i am wrong, how many cars have you been through locote? How much money did you waste away into them and what time period does this cover? roughly a year ?

A fool and his money are easily parted.

[VT3C]

Your Welcome in any workshop as they know a fool and his money are easily parted.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

couldnt have said it better myself.

I will definately have to go and have a talk to Zac at cypher dont you worry.


I dont know what on earth or drugs u pair are on????

hrm that my imature, naive and ignorant friend, is called defamation.

please ohh please continue to post...

[locote]

i have owned bout 10 cars

and have modified many of them..

Your self josh???

Josh i ask alot of questions cause maybe i dont have all the answers and know all like yourself...

and Josh when have i ever refered to u apart from ur name???
so please dont call me a fool!!!

Josh i havent spent any money on my civic for months so whats ur point???
How many cars have u owned and how much have u spent???

[locote]

And wheres the proof to back up both or your accusations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyas http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1128254#post1128254)
Your Welcome in any workshop as they know a fool and his money are easily parted.

By the way how much did u spend on your useless ECU???
Which cant even be modified..
Ohh hang on theres no capable tuners in WA..
make sure u say that to ZAC aswell cause i think u included him in that remark...

[Mikeyas]

Thank you for the car update.

I have owned 4 cars now and i am in the positive by $4,000.

By name? I dont have a name to referance you by. Locote is not your real name and hence another faceless identity should be no different..

And money spent recently on the civic? The civic's life span of A.D.D like modifications. One engine, another engine, turbo, no turbo is the point.

You have not spent money for a while? So your saving for some bigger waste of cash? i.e. mugen headers and toda cams, which will no doubt be bought and go the same way as your crower cams fo the b18b? SOLD! when you decide on another way to do the exact same thing.

Then you wll try for another engine and put all that hard work"money" down the drain.

And now back to the orginal point i made. Mr ging..... referanced your knowledge with tuning, throwing money at tunign houses is not knowledge in tuning.

The end..

[Mikeyas]

"By the way how much did u spend on your useless ECU???
Which cant even be modified..
Ohh hang on theres no capable tuners in WA..
make sure u say that to ZAC aswell cause i think u included him in that remark..."

Ahh i dont have an ecu in my posession?

[locote]

Thats exelent im getting a lecture on spending $$.
From a guy who spends $$$ in japan for gear to rice up his car.
And then pays $$$ in duty to get gear into country..
But yet im the FOOL..
At least im not so involved with my self that i belive ive never made mistakes..

[Mikeyas]

Hang on locote. Are you getting abit confused?

I have not been to japan?

[VT3C]

you would LOVE to know what i spent on my 'useless' ECU wouldnt you..

LOCOTE.. is it all about $$$ to you ? bwahahah.. i love it.. so entertaining..

to some of us it isnt all about having the most power and being the fastest and having the biggest penis.. and the highest number of forum posts ;)

I never refered to Zacka at all.. children have such vivid imaginations !

FYI I've referred many honda's to Cypher over the years including a good friend of mine's full B20-VTEC $$,$$$ build and many more.

From my PERSONAL EXPERIENCES over the past 6 years of owning my civic and others that i have known in that time and their experiences with certain other tuners may lead me to such conclusions. if you dont agree that's fine but that doesnt mean i am wrong. And i have learned not to mention any specific tuners or workshops in order not to upset them.

[locote]

Josh if u hate cars and modifiying them that badly then what are u doin in this forum...
We all spend 1000s on our cars!!!
Theres 1000s of ppl that spent 1000 times what i have!!!
U have a problem with them too???
or is it just a personal vendeta against me????
Say it or just leave it..
I was told u are and angry man but i didnt know to what extent.
ps the ECU remark wasnt for u..

[VT3C]

p.s. dont forget to breath in between posts Locote ;)

[locote]

you would LOVE to know what i spent on my 'useless' ECU wouldnt you..

LOCOTE.. is it all about $$$ to you ? bwahahah.. i love it.. so entertaining..

to some of us it isnt all about having the most power and being the fastest and having the biggest penis.. and the highest number of forum posts ;)



Go on since this thread has turned into how much we spend ( which u guys did)
say how much u spent!!!
prove to every one here THAT I AM A FOOL!!!

End it once and for all!!!!

[VT3C]

Go on since this thread has turned into how much we spend ( which u guys did)
say how much u spent!!!
prove to every one here THAT I AM A FOOL!!!

End it once and for all!!!!


so will you shut up if i simply post how much i paid for my 'useless' Spoon ECU ?

[locote]

Lol..
U paid as much as what my ECU cost me on import duty tax lol...
PROB more as i got my FC cheap, and i can alter fuel and ign maps

U guys say i like to brag!!!
Listen to YOU SPOON THIS SPOON THAT...

[VT3C]

bro i think you're starting to turn purple in the face !! and it's waay past your bedtime.. you got kindy tmrw ;)

[Mikeyas]

hang on locote, in all your poor logic, you have managed to come out with i


"hate cars and modifiying them" ???

No, i love cars and modfied cars. But i am again bringing up the main point that you modify cars in the most pointless money wasting fashion possible. And this waste of money is not a basis for tuning knowledge!

[locote]

LOL cant say what it all cost ya hey...
i smell a hypocracy...

Comom man just end it...
Prove me as a BIG $$ waster !!!!!
This is wat its been along the whole time isnt it...
U like to be the centre of attention and when u think some one wants YOUR spotlight u get upset:(
BOO HOOO

[locote]

JOSH i wasted loads of money on my GSi thats why i ran 15.1,
How many other GSis have ran that time???
arrmmm NOT YOURS..

Can u read josh??
where do you get this i hate cars crap???
So everyone except u in this forum is into modifying their ride???
seriously josh how can u make the coments u are making when you yourself have spent money on a car...
U are the biggest hypocryt for making them...

[Mikeyas]

Locote.. PLease go find where i have said i have not spent money on my car?

"JOSH i wasted loads of money on my GSi thats why i ran 15.1,
How many other GSis have ran that time???
arrmmm NOT YOURS.."

No i did not spend loads of money and have had 2 runs in the car.

I did mention i am after 4 cars in the positive by $4,000 thats $4,000 profit locote. Even after mods.

please read above to where i said "i love cars and modfied cars."

Possibly reading might save you having to look like a "fool" :)

[locote]

Well then JOSH wat is the problem????
What are trying to prove???
All this for......??

You spend less on cars i spend more!!!!
So the F@#K WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
are you jelous that i can afford more or something???
u have no basis to come on this forum and start arguein with!!!
So why do it for??
DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER BOUT YOURSELF..
Cause it aint gona change my spend ding habbits one bit!!!!
I love cars and ill spend $$ on them till the day i die!!
If im an fool for that well,.....
guess what josh CALL ME A FOOL ALL YALL WANT.
At lleast im happy and dont go trying to bring others to my level of unhappiness!!!!

only thing your proving is that u have rocks in your head for arguing bout nothing with me in a public forum..
Cause as sure as hell i didnt start attacking..

[VT3C]

OK Locote if $$$ is all you're concerned about, my Spoon P30 ECU with VTEC controller module (all in perfect condition with original instructions) was ~$XXX AUD... you happy ??

and as for excise duty, I paid $120 AUD in total for a set of Cusco coilovers, a full exhaust and much much more.. ... ... .. .

[Mikeyas]

My orignal statement

"The only experience here is handing over wads of cash.... If that amounts to tuning experience.... Then there should be more good tuners out there by your calculations."

That is my point and i have mentioned this point 3 times now.

So again locote.

Possibly reading might save you having to look like a "fool"

[locote]

wads of cash is $ to but to me wads of cash is $$$$$...
ONCE AGAIN WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH ME AND MY CARS????

Too you both!!!!

How does me and my cars bother you????

Ill continue to Spend $$ on my car and ill continue to post!!!
so in reality this solved nothing:)

PS i never implied i was a tuner lol at you once again JOSH...
Yeah i tune my car...

[Mikeyas]

in conclusion.

Point1: Tuning knowledge is not a by product of Wasting money.
Point2: Your ability to rapidly waste money does not = tuning experience (please referance point1)
Point3: This was the only true point of the above posts.
Point4: Your ability to understand a collection of logical points is On the closer side to Nil and hence you missed point1 numerous times.

In conclusion:Possibly reading might save you having to look like a "fool" :)

This was fun. ( This is the end for me and i will not post again to this topic)

Good night. Fool :)

[locote]

LOL in conclusion i spent less on my GSi and still ran a quikker time thatn you..
And thats why ur dark with me...
Or im just a better driver???
LOL ill spend as much $$ on what ever the F*&K i want!!!!
U wanna be a cheap ass thats your problem...

[locote]

wads of cash is $ to but to me wads of cash is $$$$$...
ONCE AGAIN WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH ME AND MY CARS????

Too you both!!!!

How does me and my cars bother you????

Ill continue to Spend $$ on my car and ill continue to post!!!
so in reality this solved nothing:)

PS i never implied i was a tuner lol at you once again JOSH...
Yeah i tune my car...

ANSWER PLEASE

[locote]

ill reply tomorow.. ur too slow to reply cant be bothered

[locote]

night mr angry man

[locote]

Dont listen to VT3C he thinks he knows all but he doesnt know much..
He claims theres no competent tuners here in WA...
Well theres many workshops that have built and tune N/A and F/I hondas in WA..
Cypher: B20vtec civic
Xspeed: turbo vtir teg
Speedworks: B16a turbo EG
Ovaboost: My turbo setup and a turbo ITR

So when he tells u theres no tuners in WA, well thats his excuse to make him self feel better about his purchase..

As for mikeyas He installs a 4-1 custom made unproven header into his GSi B18B with a 3inch collector (smart man hey), then claims it makes good gains when he is trying to sell it..

I wouldnt take any advice from some one who only spends $370 to tune their pride and joy..
370 wouldnt even get u a vafc.
let alone tune it..

[ginganggooly]

LOL Locote you dont get it. and you obviously will never get it. I dont know what you're trying to prove on here and every other honda-related forum in the universe but NOBODY CARES !

and ginggangghoolieghoolie you yavnt met locote in person.. and if you call 'experience' paying workshops to do all your work and all of this within a 12 month timeframe.. all based on whatever is the latest internet-trends etc well then Locote is truely experienced.. or is his name *brian* ??

if you encourage having mis-led individuals post technical advice on this forum then that's great but I just hope the newbys arent mislead by the good-ol' Fast'n'Furious attitude that we see in this thread and in many others.

*sigh*

Ahyes.
Don't you think that statement was a tad presumptious?
I've met and spoken to locote on numerous occaisions. Yes, thats right peanut. Don't let the truth get in the way of any of your posts though.

To think- all this time i've wasted on hondatas.
I should have gone out and got a plug and pray spoon chip.
Seriously, what kind of turkey goes and starts to build a motor, goes to the trouble of spending money on various mods to go and mess it all up by using a map burned by god knows who, for god knows what combination.

I better run out and tell pete and terry conroy to go and get a spoon-chipped-ecu for their production cars.

So in summary, you've paid up for an aftermaket ECU solution that uses more fuel and made less power than stock. Fark'n brilliant mate, and you're evangelising this???

Sounds to me like you're just trying to justify your silly purchasing decision.

Any tuner worth his salt with an programmable ecu, a wideband O2 sensor and a dyno will deliver good gains over stock. Gains from idle to cut-out, while also improving fruel economy. I've seen this time and time again from cars tuned by a whole swag of different workshops.

[ginganggooly]

OK so X tuner has no experience in hondas and the program. HE has a starting advantage over joe average now and you are now going to pay him to learn on your car. The point is he doesnt know how to tune the car to its best setting/s.

And so he must learn... Learning takes time and in the tuners case, now time = money


if it was with his own money then go ahead, but whats the bet you are going to pay for his "learning time"

If the end-user doesn't mind being ripped off by a tuner, then it is their prerogative to use that tuner. This doesn't change the point i was making, programmable ECU's are better and more fexible than these best guess chipped ECU's.

Aside from this, my observations of the tuners I've dealt with and know, is that they do not charge you to learn to tune an ECU. i.e, you pay for the normal dyno tune- $500-$1000 or whatever the going rate is from that workshop, and they sit there and learn how to program the ECU.
Some workshops will even give you a discount when they're using a platform for the first time. Hi-Comp is a good example of this; since it was the first time they'd used the platform, they tuned Blitz's civic w/ PFC for a very competitive amount.

[VT3C]

Jeebus Locote - you promised you'd shut the fk up after I told you how much my ECU cost and you have just ranted on and on.. looks like you were up all night ranting even with nobody to give you a reply LOL.. *aww how cute little locote ranted himself to sleep on his keyboard*


Dont listen to VT3C he thinks he knows all but he doesnt know much..
He claims theres no competent tuners here in WA...
Well theres many workshops that have built and tune N/A and F/I hondas in WA..
Cypher: B20vtec civic
Xspeed: turbo vtir teg
Speedworks: B16a turbo EG
Ovaboost: My turbo setup and a turbo ITR


LMFAO ! yet more proof of your ignorance naivity and imaturity LOCOTE you FOOL !

3/4 of the tuning shops you mentioned and the examples you gave are TUBOS (LMFAO!!!) and those (Turbo cars) are questionable at best for example YOUR piece of shit that runs barely quicker N/A bwahahah.

FYI i dont care about turbo honda's - they excite me about as much as VL commodores and the owners seem to have the same mentality also.



As for mikeyas He installs a 4-1 custom made unproven header into his GSi B18B with a 3inch collector (smart man hey), then claims it makes good gains when he is trying to sell it..


That header WAS questionalbe as it had no 'X-Force' brands on it (LOL) but man there was absolutely no doubt in the HUGE gains it made when we tested it out. so Once again you're posting with no knowledge of the facts LOL.



ANSWER PLEASE

I told you how much my SPOON ECU was so now you're meant to shut the fk up as promised. and I dont do things demanded by little piss-ant's like yourself.



LOL in conclusion i spent less on my GSi and still ran a quikker time thatn you..
And thats why ur dark with me...
Or im just a better driver???
LOL ill spend as much $$ on what ever the F*&K i want!!!!
U wanna be a cheap ass thats your problem...

once again you're measuring everything by your timeslips LMFAO !

you need to learn how to read bro and get out from behind your keyboard.

Just because your VTEChnique membership was declined as a result of your HOON behaviour on public roads (etc) as show on the streets and your poor attitude as shown on these and every other honda forum in the universe is no reason to get personal, but nice try for a little turd.



ill reply tomorow.. ur too slow to reply cant be bothered

no you see some people have lives other than internet forums and waiting in line at the the motorplex in a hawt'n'nsexy GSi. some of us have better things to do than sit in front of our computer getting flustered all night.. perhaps you should take a course in english comprehension 101 so that you can go back and re-read our posts in order to make sense and not make yourself look like such and idiot..



If the end-user doesn't mind being ripped off by a tuner, then it is their prerogative to use that tuner.
you're dang right there.. Locote take note..



IThis doesn't change the point i was making, programmable ECU's are better and more fexible than these best guess chipped ECU's.

I'll refer you BACK to my post on PAGE ONE.. you obviously have some problems with english comprehension also:


...so in essence, a fully tunable ECU is the best approach to take only if you have a cmpetant tuner. and you must reaslise fixed-state ECU's are not meant for ultimate power gains etc. they are a balanced tune of reliability, improved tourque nad the other features listed above - usually designed for track use NOT how-big-is-your-penis max HP gains.




...you've paid up for an aftermaket ECU solution that uses more fuel and made less power than stock. Fark'n brilliant mate, and you're evangelising this???

I refer you to my previous posts yet again:


yeah agreed, but I did say that a programmable ECU is the best option IF YOU HAVE A TUNER YOU CAN TRUST LOCALLY..

..If you DO get a fixed-tune ECU, i would recommend that you got to your local dyno and have the Air-Fuel ratios checked. you mainly dont want to be running lean, and if it's too rich you'll lose power and serves no usefull purpose.



The spoon ECU I am running nw is actually my second chipped ECU. the first was on my SOHC VTEC and was an unknown origin chip. The butt-dyno(TM) told me there was great mid range gains.. when we dyno tested the ECU vs stock ECU the stock ECU actually had 1Kw more peak power, however the Chipped ECU had much more mid-range power and torque. If you're up for a penis-measuremeant contenst then that'd mean that the stock ECU is your best option, but if you off to the track, i think the chipped version would be your friend.


Once again you've failed to read and comprehend my posts.. the spoon ECU is my 2nd chipped ecu.. and the 1st one was FREE.. so i havnt wasted any money IMO.

[Rixsy]

Not to add fuel to the fire or anything but :D... a person can decide how he spends his money on what he/she deems as important to themselves. Therefore, by showing that you're big boys in 'how much you spend on your car to get whatever power' is lame. You shouldn't criticise someone else for paying extra $$$ for something that you may have gotten cheaper cos I'm pretty sure some ppl would agree that when someone gets a new mod the next person will say i got it for cheaper.

If you want to talk drag times and all that, fine fair enough do up your car to get quick 1/4 mile times if that's your aim but remember, Honda's weren't really made for straight line races... :) Therefore ppl will also have conflicting ideas in what mods are 'bang for buck' cos they're going for different requirements of their car.

To add even more fuel - I've also heard that WA doesnt have many competent tuners either. Sure any joe can give it a go - but what makes someone 'professional' these days?

:D:D:D But yeh, stop fighting boys, it's pointless :D:D:D

[ginganggooly]

I'll refer you BACK to my post on PAGE ONE.. you obviously have some problems with english comprehension also:

I refer you to my previous posts yet again:

Once again you've failed to read and comprehend my posts.. the spoon ECU is my 2nd chipped ecu.. and the 1st one was FREE.. so i havnt wasted any money IMO.

Oh my, you're complaining about my comprehension?
You missed that little snippet at the beginning od my post which read:
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyas http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif" (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1128250#post1128250)

So rather than attacking my level of literacy, perhaps you should take your own advice and invest a little effort into more carefully reading the post you're venting your spleen over. In short, i wasn't talking to you. :wave:

Now, back on topic. As per my original comment, if you are going to use a pre-programmed map, you need to make damn sure that you've kept almost every accessory, bolt on and internal as per the test-mule. Otherwise the chip is going to give substandard results.

About two years ago, I was running around with a JDM ITR 4-1 header and a few other miscellaneous bits and pieces. After a few hours tuning I ended up with 115kw ATW, strong mid-range, excellent transient throttle response and great fuel economy, basically, all of the pro's and none of the con's. I sold the JDM header and went temporarily back to AUDM ITR header... I immediately felt a monumental loss in power and driveability, not to mention a large increase in fuel consumption. Out of interest, I went back to the (same) dyno spun the car up. 91kw ATW was the result (this is actually less power than the stock ECU). Thats a legitimate loss of 24kw at the wheels by changing one part of the motor to something outside of what the map was written for. Dave re-tuned the car on the AUDM header and we got it back to around 105kw.

Now liken the above situation to a tuned J's/Spoon/Jun ECU optimised for whatever they tuned the car on, and any gimp can see where this is headed.

[VT3C]

...if you are going to use a pre-programmed map, you need to make damn sure that you've kept almost every accessory, bolt on and internal as per the test-mule. Otherwise the chip is going to give substandard results.

aggreed. that's why I have used all spoon parts where possible.. my main concern is that if the ECU is or isnt programmed for use with Spoon cams.. I cant find out any info on this anywhere.

My header is almost identical to the spoon 4-2-1 as per recommended for B16A (over the 4-1 design).. and over time i will get all other relative spoon parts. so I AM making an attempt to have my engine set-up as close as possible to that of the Spoon EG6 that I assume these maps were designed for.

once i install the cams etc. I will have the car Dyno'd to check AFR's and if they're dangerously out of safe/practical AFR range I may need to look at tunable ECU alternatives. Obviously I am not concerned with outright all-out power or i'd not have chosen the Spoon cams etc. for the same price or LESS i could have sourced TODA, JUN, BC etc. My car's direction of purpose will be for use on track (circuit) and motorkhanas, time-trials and hillclimb events.. so outright (max) power is not particularally relevant as I am interested in MORE than JUST 1/4 mile racing. The $$$$ i spent on chassis and suspension (alone) could have bought me a turbo kit and some slicks that would wipe any quater mile time of Locote's off the board, but my goals are relevant to the track only. I consider the 1/4 mile to be more of a yardstick measurement for modification more than an egocontenst LOL.

dont get me wrong i am well aware of the limitations of a chipped ECU but another of the features i DO want to retain - regardless of piggyback, chipped or stand alone - was the ability to retain FULL On board Diagnostics functionality. Excuse my ignorance but I am not sure about Hondata's OBD options.

[fatboyz39]

This thread is funny. hondata FTW.

[barefootbonzai]

i love it. keep it going boys. Part i love best is when ever someone has a slow car they always say it's because it's for circuit.

and HOndata FTW lmao.

[ginganggooly]

ahbut i've got

a slipping clutch
no traction
bald tyres
fark'd synchros
my spare and system and 100kg of shit in the boot
too much heatsoak
<insert excuse here>Vtec is the shizznit :thumbsup:

[VT3C]

Part i love best is when ever someone has a slow car they always say it's because it's for circuit.

slow ? lets see what times you can pull with a stock B16a ?

My car is not a drag-car.. and Locote ONLY has eyes fro drags.. so what ?

i Love these threads casue they get the tools out of the woodwork :cool:

[kyle]

Well this entertained me for a good 15mins. Im actually scared to go back to my local forum and moderate now.



I guess the only conclusion anyone can make form any of this is that.....

HONDATA FTWYO!

[Civic Type R]

OMG lol what a funny read this thread has become. Lets keep the personal attacks to PMs can we :thumbsup:

How many of you over the past 6 pages have actually had real experience with a Fully programmed stand alone ECU ??? Too much talk gents!

Back on topic..

To answer the first post made in this thread, I ran a Mugen N1 ECU on my B18cR engine and it ran well. The only issues were that it disabled the Aircon, needed more fuel pressure in VTEC and you have to get a new fuel pump.

Now the gains at top end were very negligable - about a 5hp gain but thru the midrange there were gains around 20HP.

I tested this ECU vs the stock OBD2 ECU on the track and it responded beautifully. VTEC kicked in at 4100rpm and it continued to pull hard around the track with LOADS of midrange. The standard ECU was difficult to use on the circuit because when VTEC kicked in it would send the wheels spinning when you didnt want it too. Yes I also had LSD.

So overall, whats more imprtant Aircon or a gutsy car with lots more pull thru the rev range.

Here is a dyno graph to look at :)

Redline = B16A2 OBD2 ECU
Blue Line = Mugen N1 Race Only ECU
Green Line = JDM ITR ECU

http://www.dohc-vtec.net/album/data/media/1/dyno-chart.jpg


Keep it real :)

[fatboyz39]

slow ? lets see what times you can pull with a stock B16a ?

My car is not a drag-car.. and Locote ONLY has eyes fro drags.. so what ?



Barefoot done a 14.3 with his stock b16a. Respect there.:thumbsup:

I love that excuse, my car is built for circuit racing. Thats one of the top excuses on my list.:eek::eek:

[fatboyz39]

http://www.dohc-vtec.net/album/data/media/1/dyno-chart.jpg





Air to fuel everywhere!! LOL. With these chip you don't know what mods its tune for. As you have to factor in age of motor and etc.

[kyle]

Air to fuel is everywhere, but not only with the Mugen ECU, the stock ECU's appear to do it to. I think its something to do with VTEC change over, the AF meter doesn't deal with sudden changes in fuel maps, so it goes WOW!!!! LEAN LEAN LEAN, wait no!!!!....... just a bit.... ***! ok back up.... there we go ahhhhhhh.

[kyle]

BTW I just made up that response it has absolutley no technical backing to it what so ever.

[VT3C]

Barefoot done a 14.3 with his stock b16a. Respect there.:thumbsup:

I love that excuse, my car is built for circuit racing. Thats one of the top excuses on my list.:eek::eek:

14.3 respect allright (DEFINATELY !!) but he MUST have done more than I have.. fully stripped, much better tyres or something more than I/H/E/chipped ECU.

is not an excuse, and my car is not 'Built" with Built suggesting that it is finished. my car is heading for.. is still a daily driver and i have to keep it legal enought to keep the 'authorities' off my tail.

anyway i'm pretty sure i've said all i have to say and hopefully the author of this thread has some more perspective on Standalone v chipped ECU's.

apologies to "NOSSS" for encouraging such imature post-whoring but I merely wanted to get my view on chipped ECU's accross and offer another opinion other than "Hondata FTW" which is just a pathetic statement.

The post by civictypeR, for example, justifies his opinion by explaining context and providing proof based on his personal experience rather than just trying to post shit in order to look cool on this forum.

there needs to be much more justification of opinions on here - ESPECIALLY in the TECHNICAL section !!!

[Civic Type R]

the AF meter doesn't deal with sudden changes in fuel maps, so it goes WOW!!!! LEAN LEAN LEAN, wait no!!!!....... just a bit.... ***! ok back up.... there we go ahhhhhhh.

Yeah you could say that.. lol :)

[ginganggooly]

Here is a dyno graph to look at :)

Redline = B16A2 OBD2 ECU
Blue Line = Mugen N1 Race Only ECU
Green Line = JDM ITR ECU

http://www.dohc-vtec.net/album/data/media/1/dyno-chart.jpg


Keep it real :)

I'll put my internet expert cap on and say that these A:F's are a mess :p

[locote]

If 1/4 mile times is so irrelevent then why go out of your way to strip your interior...
Mr my car is built for the track...

Y so serious mate???
And u still havent answered my original question??
WHAT HAVE U GOT AGAINST ME????
or would u like me to post new thread so u can answer it there???
And all these alegations of hoon behaviour ARE just allegations!!!
U have nothing to back this up!!!
exept the fact u wanted to race me on the freeway and got wooped!!!

[locote]

14.3 respect allright (DEFINATELY !!) but he MUST have done more than I have.. fully stripped, much better tyres or something more than I/H/E/chipped ECU.


No every one strips their interior LOL...
Maybe he knows what makes a B16a go!!!

PnP ECU FOR A VERY BIG LOSS (FAVBL)
even the manual on powerFc says its PnP and ready to be used BUT youd have to be a dork to stick with base fuel map as car clearly knocks.
How much worse would on of those that cant be tuned be...
I feel so sorry for the motor.

[locote]

The post by civictypeR, for example, justifies his opinion by explaining context and providing proof based on his personal experience rather than just trying to post shit in order to look cool on this forum.

there needs to be much more justification of opinions on here - ESPECIALLY in the TECHNICAL section !!!

So a dyno chart that can be copy and pasted on paint( im not saying it is)
Is hard technical evidence for this HONDA guru we have amongst us!!!

At least civictyper backed it up by pulling a 14.1!!!
my car might only have 120whp but it sure is a hell lot dam quiker than urs!!!
on a straighline and as soon as i get my over priced suspension u will see what a car thats built for street cruising will do to ur so called track car...
actions speak louder than words, if u think i brag alot now you just wait:)

[Civic Type R]

If anyone is interested, I have a printout of that dyno run on my bookshelf at home and additional copies can be obtained from Formaz ;)

[locote]

Well that would be awsome as my teg and civic were dynoed there too..
107whp for teg ran 15.1 with it
120whp for EG 14.2.
other dynos 160whp NA with civic lol, gotta be taken to the track for proven results

[VT3C]

LMFAO @ Locote - it's OVER bro.. get a life !! and stop hi-jacking this thread with your BULLSHIT !!!

if it's all a competition to YOU, then good on you.

what have o got against you ? go back and read every post you've ever made on ozhonda and every other forum.. if you cant see a common thread then it's you bro that has the problems. All you've posted on this thread are attacks agains myself and all I was doing was trying to offer my OPINION to the author of this thread (NOSSS) in order to try and help him with his question.

and I assume you were referring to the trip back from the drags ? well you prob flogged me cause I wasnt running BWAHAHAH we were laughing at you trying to get us to run for the whole length of the freeway while we jsut drove normally and legally. not to mention your behaviour as reported to me by other club admin about your antics on the last VTEChnique cruise.

over and out - you can continue to flame me all you like but I've got better things to do than worry about liitle turds like you. you're just making yourself look VERY stupid and immature.

good day to you.

[Jr]

For all reading this thred info on page 1 (2-5 shit) more info on 6 thanks to civictyper then shit again on page 7. typical oz hi jacked thred lol.

[locote]

LOL at vt3T.

were are these reports please do tell..
who reported me and for what???
lol..
All these claims are just like ur knowledge EMPTY

[locote]

no you are not right.

that's like saying someone that tunes V8 supercars or lawnmowers can also tune a honda engine.

Locote you need to learn there is a lot more to engine management and tuning than fast 1/4 mile times and max HP figures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyone can build one and "tune" it but if it blows up on the dyno or at the track etc.. then you have your answer.

You started with this little rant...
Didnt mumy love enough is that ur problem???

YOU NEED TO LEARN THAT U DONT DRIVE ANYTHING SPECIAL!!
i can say that because i have same model car as you...

Get over urself mate at the end of the day ur car is just one of millions of civics made by honda..
And what u have done to it has been done BETTER by so many other ppl...

[Cold Fusion]

why join VTEChnique when u can join WAhonda ;)

[VT3C]

LMFAO - WA Honda is welcome to Locote !! in fact PLEASE take him !!!!

[locote]

You really show ur true colors when u start deleting ppls posts...
Get over your power trip mate for ur own sake....
Specialy when ppl in your own club have negative things to say bout your attitude towards them..

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

Interesting.. will have to look into this further.. and yeah i was aware of the process that the rom is tuned live then the program burnt onto the chip.. but that was my point that essentially it's a chipped ecu with the chip being tuned for your car.. so it is a good option i CAN see the advantages but the biggest disadvantage is that we have no tuner over here as I said.

am not dissing the capabilities of Hondata - dont get me wrong.. but we must be clear to those who are jsut looking at ECU options that perhaps the Hondata units are only good if you have access to a competent tuner etc.

but IF you have access to one of these tuners (like dyno dave etc) then yes you got a great option - can be tuned for track reliability and balance OR max HP whatever your purpose is.. jsut depends on the skills of the tuner. .bla bla bla..

will still keep the spoon ECU as i believe it still has a lot of potential but after i install cams i MAY reconsider my ECU option to something that is completely tunable if I am not happy with the result.

what modifications does the spoon ecu recomend you have before installing it?

[locote]

A belief that there is a GOD, is a good start

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

i'm trying to establish if the spoon ecu is any good if you dont have the recomended spoon products it was designed and tested with.

[locote]

sorry mate i dont know...
Ask the SPOON fed GURU

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

lol :)

[Cold Fusion]

LMFAO - WA Honda is welcome to Locote !! in fact PLEASE take him !!!!

at wahonda we rather someone friendly and wants to enjoy cruising and talking and having fun, rather than a "know-it-all" who is out to prove his superiority and knowlage, not only have we already taken him but he has been a friendly, helpful guy towards the majority of the members, and i dont see why we wouldn't allow him to join our forum and talk to people who also love hondas, do you? at WAhonda we dont "accept" and "reject" people based on what or who they know...thats why in my opinion WAhonda will always be a much nicer, friendly environment, and both me and mike (sinister) hope that it becomes more and more popular for all Perth based Honda people, and we get the only thing we lack at the moment, activity, since we are a new site.

if you like, your welcome to join :), as i said, everyone is, but if u do, leave ur arguments and stuff either on Ozhonda or ur forums where i presume its alloud?

thanks

[locote]

HAHAHHA i got BANNED FROM vtecknique...
GOOD BYE CRUEL WORLD..
LOOKS like the NAZIS are back...
Do what we say or else ( we ban you)

[TODA AU]

i'm trying to establish if the spoon ecu is any good if you dont have the recomended spoon products it was designed and tested with.
They can work OK, if you stray from their exact combination it is tuned to work with, they don't work that well at all.
Further, for the gains that you get with one of these ECU's, realisticly you'd get the same or better with something as cheap & simple as a VAFC II.
You will need someone to tune it, but it's really not rocket sceince.

For best results:
Find a tuner you trust & get the aftermarket programable ECU he prefers to use.

[yfin]

Had quite a few complaints about this thread - closed pending review. Apologies to thread creator.

Lets all please try to say our views without resorting to personal attacks.

Thanks