using oil

[disappointed]

G'day folks, I have a 12/03 civic sedan, manual with the D17Z1 engine. At 100000km it started to use oil. Now at 140k it uses 500ml of oil every 1000km. Honda are playing with me. Does anybody else have an oil consumption problem? I have a list of other problems that you may be able to help with, hopefully. Thanx :thumbdwn:

[aaronng]

Did you always drive off as soon as you started the engine? Did you use heavy throttle before the temperature needle reached the middle?

[disappointed]

Yes and no. This day and age you do not need to warm the engine up prior to driving off.

[EuroDude]

Do you see an oil puddle on the driveway where you park the car?

Sounds like your engine may have an oil leak, its quite a common problem with older engines.

Check for oil leaks around the CAM seals, rocker cover seal, head gasket, oil filter, and oil sump.

[EuroDude]

Yes and no. This day and age you do not need to warm the engine up prior to driving off.

EFI engines can drive straight away, but its not recommened. If you do drive off when its still cold, you will wear the engine down faster resulting in the engine losing compression and blowing grey smoke sooner.

[destrukshn]

Do you see an oil puddle on the driveway where you park the car?

Sounds like your engine may have an oil leak, its quite a common problem with older engines.

Check for oil leaks around the CAM seals, rocker gasket and lower gasket, oil filter, and oil sump.
whats a lower gasket?
lol, also, check your sump plug is on tight.
also maybe coming from your dizzy seal, rear main, crank seal as well.
lots of variables.

[EuroDude]

whats a lower gasket?
lol, also, check your sump plug is on tight.
also maybe coming from your dizzy seal, rear main, crank seal as well.
lots of variables.

Head Gasket ftmfw :p

I meant rocker cover "seal" lol

[Spicey]

There is no difference between the internals of an old carbie engine and a new EFI model (apart from manufacturing tolerances) so they can still be damaged by "abusing" a cold engine.

Do you service the vehicle yourself? do you know what oil is being used in your engine? Engines can use vast amounts of oil if the wrong oil is used!

Other than that an oil leak could be the cause, but it would need to be a bad one to be leaking 500mls of oil every 1000kms! Has the car been checked at a workshop?

[disappointed]

Firstly, I am a mechanic by trade, because of warranty reasons, the car has been serviced at dealers. Here are the facts. The engine does not leak a drop of oil. Two plugs are gumming up. The pcv has been changed to no benefit. The car is not abused at all, and it makes no difference if you drive off straight away. Thanx.

[Spicey]

Well, if two plugs are filthy you obviously have an internal problem. Do you know what number plugs are gummed??

Have you done a compression test??? Does the vehicle blow smoke when first starting of a morning or when revving it out???

are the other problems you mentioned you have engine related???

[disappointed]

Plugs 2 & 4. Honda have done a compression test, and it was OK. Does not blow any smoke at any time. One other problem is ECU related. On deceleration with a slightly open throttle, as you do in traffic and going down a slight decline, the car surges and jerks badly. Honda say it's a characteristic of the car and we should adjust our driving. What a load of crap. I feel it is emmision control related. It's only found in manuals. Has anyone else come across this phenomenon? Thanx.

[aaronng]

Firstly, I am a mechanic by trade, because of warranty reasons, the car has been serviced at dealers. Here are the facts. The engine does not leak a drop of oil. Two plugs are gumming up. The pcv has been changed to no benefit. The car is not abused at all, and it makes no difference if you drive off straight away. Thanx.

Replace those plugs with copper ones (as they will get gummed up again if the problem is not fixed). Then get a compression test done on your car.

When you first start the car in the morning, let it idle for 30 seconds before driving off. This is just to let the oil circulate around.

[EK4R]

Plugs 2 & 4. Honda have done a compression test, and it was OK. Does not blow any smoke at any time. One other problem is ECU related. On deceleration with a slightly open throttle, as you do in traffic and going down a slight decline, the car surges and jerks badly. Honda say it's a characteristic of the car and we should adjust our driving. What a load of crap. I feel it is emmision control related. It's only found in manuals. Has anyone else come across this phenomenon? Thanx.

im not sure about the oil but regarding the jerkyness, i know a friend who has that, but it happens when he is low on rev (1500rpm) ? but i think thats just normal? not too sure . i would like to know too.

[disappointed]

Hi aarong, as soon as the oil light goes off, you have oil pressure and oil is circulating.

[aaronng]

Hi aarong, as soon as the oil light goes off, you have oil pressure and oil is circulating.

Yes the oil is circulating, but give it a while to circulate. I'm sure you can spare 30 seconds for your car.

[aaronng]

On deceleration with a slightly open throttle, as you do in traffic and going down a slight decline, the car surges and jerks badly. Honda say it's a characteristic of the car and we should adjust our driving. What a load of crap. I feel it is emmision control related. It's only found in manuals. Has anyone else come across this phenomenon? Thanx.

Happens on the Euro too when you go below 1500rpm. It's because the ECU applies throttle to prevent the engine from dying as well as to get a more complete burn. If you are in 1st gear, you can actually have the car moving forward constantly with revs below 1500rpm and your foot totally off the throttle, like an auto.

[Spicey]

My 05 7th Gen sometimes surges at very light throttle openings, it hasn't been bad enough to concern me or my GF yet so I haven't looked into it. I more blame it on poor fueling (my car has done 27000kms)

Im with the other guys on the cold engine thing. The only reason people say EFI cars dont need warming up is because their fueling is handled better unlike an old carby car that is a pig to drive cold. Your engine still needs to warm up so the oil becomes thinner and circulates quicker! Your right in saying you have oil pressure as soon as the light goes out, but the oil is still cold and sludgy till it warms up and thins!

Mind you, I dont wait around for the engine to warm up, I just dont rev it over 2500-3000rpm till it warms up!

[disappointed]

The surging problem is quite embarrassing, espeacially when you have other people in the car. I feel it is a engineering issue. And if thats the best Honda engineers can do, well, put it this way, if i knew of the problem before i bought the car, i wouldn't have bought it. I would have bought a KIA. I don't think it's good enough. Sorry about the whinge guys...

[disappointed]

Spicey, I know what your saying, but its an old wives tale. The oil in the car is a 10W30. The 10 stands for the thickness of the oil when cold, in a round about way. I may not have worded that correctly, but is roughly correct. Also in the old days they warmed engines up first for the reason you stated but also because they were a straight 30 or straight 40 weight.

[Spicey]

Yeah, the 10 stands for viscosity when cold and the 30 is viscosity when hot. The thing I dont understand is why is engine oil thinner when hot even though the ratings state it should be thicker :-S

but meh, each to their own. I will continue to warm up my engine before revving/loading it up thanks!

How long you had the car for???

[disappointed]

Bought the car new late december 2003. Surge problem there from day one. Oil use, since 100000 km. before that not a drop. Drive off occurs within 45 seconds of starting, average say 30 secs. Thanx for you input guys. Still like to hear from people with oil consumption issues and or surging when decelerating with a slightly open throttle. The surge is more prominant at 2500 rpm.

[aaronng]

Yeah, the 10 stands for viscosity when cold and the 30 is viscosity when hot. The thing I dont understand is why is engine oil thinner when hot even though the ratings state it should be thicker :-S

10w-30.

10 means that the oil has the EQUIVALENT viscosity to a straight 10 oil at -18ºC.
30 means that the oil has the EQUIVALENT viscosity to a straight 30 oil at 100ºC,

They are equivalent ratings, so 10 at -18ºC is still thicker than 30 at 100ºC.

And yeah, I do the same. I start the car, let it have 30 seconds to idle. In the mean time, I put on my seat belt, check the mirrors, check for kids around the car as well as put the mobile phone into the cup holder compartment. So by the time I am ready, it has been 30 seconds and I just drive off, limiting throttle to a maximum of 1/4 and RPM to a maximum of 3000rpm. My car doesn't burn oil at all, and I even thrashed my car badly by going for a circuit trackday and yet no oil was burnt.

[aaronng]

Bought the car new late december 2003. Surge problem there from day one. Oil use, since 100000 km. before that not a drop. Drive off occurs within 45 seconds of starting, average say 30 secs. Thanx for you input guys. Still like to hear from people with oil consumption issues and or surging when decelerating with a slightly open throttle. The surge is more prominant at 2500 rpm.

The surging, I agree it is a Honda problem. With the Euros, we even get jerkyness when the cruise control tries to increase the speed and RPM is around 2000-4000rpm. So if the ECU can't get it smoothly, I don't think our foot can. It's Honda's bad.

The oil consumption however, could be because of looser tolerances, so now you get a consistent oil burning (small amount that it is difficult to notice when driving). Did you try asking your dealer if he put in those "cleaner additives" during your 100000km service? I know our dealer did that to our car without asking once (Holden). It could have removed the carbon that was helping to seal your engine.