Dealer selling me a NEW (swirl/scratched) Jazz

[strike]

Hi guys, just wondering if you could help me out here.

I went to pick up the delivery of a new nighthawk black Jazz with my gf (it's hers) today, and found it to have many many swirls and light scratches(which are very noticeable) on the paintwork all over the car body (seems to be in the clear). Luckily we have not yet signed any paperwork i.e finance, privacy and insurance as of yet

I had a chat with them explaining I was not happy with the car and the scratches, and they said that they'll re polish and buff the car to get rid of the scratches, but my thoughts are that it will take a big chunk out of clear which I think is unacceptable. When I explained my thoughts of this, they offered to provide the car with $1800 worth of paint protection and interior protection, which I am not happy about because it's actually worth $400 for the protection and I'm better off getting it detailed cheaper.

At the moment we have agreed to see how it comes out tomorrow because they'll be applying the paint protection and rebuffing the car (plus putting on the tinting which was originally promised to use when delivered which did not appear on the car today).

I regretfully did not speak to the manager today about this matter, and I'm afraid that when we go see the car tomorrow it will have buffed out scratches/swirls + 20% less clear coat on the car.

My questions are when my gf signed the 'vehicle purchase contract', is she obliged to pay the 5% of total price (listed in contract term 5) for liquidated damages and costs if she refuses delivery of the vehicle?

If I haven't signed the finance papers does that mean we have the upperhand? And should i definitely request for a replacement new car instead of this buffed up car? Or should I take my business elsewhere if they don't give us a new one?

Btw the car was built in October 2006..... it's been 6 months (half a year) and they call this a new car?

Give me your thoughts and opinions guys :confused:

Phil

[chunky]

where has it been stored?
demand a respray or a new one

[jeffske]

did u leave a deposit?

if not then see what the outcome is and if you're not happy, leave

[vividjazz]

You can specify on the contract that the car must have a certain build date ie. Jan 2007 or later and only a certain max number of km on the clock eg.20. Seen dealers deliver 'new' cars with 100km+ on the clock.

As for scratches thats pathetic. If you can't come to an agreement with the dealer that is satisfactory to you then contact consumer affairs in your state and Honda Australia.

[strike]

did u leave a deposit?

if not then see what the outcome is and if you're not happy, leave

Yes, a $200 deposit was paid when she signed off the 'Vehicle Purchase Contract'. Only problem is if matters turn sour, I am unsure if I am able to regain that deposit and also pay $1220 (5% of total price) for liquidated damages and costs stated in the contract...


You can specify on the contract that the car must have a certain build date ie. Jan 2007 or later and only a certain max number of km on the clock eg.20. Seen dealers deliver 'new' cars with 100km+ on the clock.

As for scratches thats pathetic. If you can't come to an agreement with the dealer that is satisfactory to you then contact consumer affairs in your state and Honda Australia.

The built date wasn't specified in the contract :( But haven't as of yet checked the clock. I think paying full price for a 6 month old car is unacceptable..

[kid_dynamite]

Heheh detailing enthusiast vs. dealer? :)

Nah I totally understand where you're coming from Phil. You sound cluey about how to look after your car - once I started reading some detailing forums I began noticing the little things like swirlmarks, etc - little defects which the normal person wouldn't notice / realise were there. Problem is convincing someone who doesn't know about this stuff that it exists.

Since you've already pointed out the flaws I bet they will probably work into it more than usual. And this is where the problem is. A dealer would simply do what they are used to. Which is most likely a couple of goes with a cutting compound, as opposed something you'd see a professional detailer do.

I think best bet is to talk to the dealer principal, tell them NOT to go ahead with the buffing. Perhaps bring in a pro detailer to inspect the car, give them his opinion and use that to negotiate a discount based on the unsatisfactory condition of the car perhaps? Vividjazz has it right though - if you fail to get anywhere on that, contact Honda Australia.

[jeffske]

Heheh detailing enthusiast vs. dealer? :)

Nah I totally understand where you're coming from Phil. You sound cluey about how to look after your car - once I started reading some detailing forums I began noticing the little things like swirlmarks, etc - little defects which the normal person wouldn't notice / realise were there. Problem is convincing someone who doesn't know about this stuff that it exists.

Since you've already pointed out the flaws I bet they will probably work into it more than usual. And this is where the problem is. A dealer would simply do what they are used to. Which is most likely a couple of goes with a cutting compound, as opposed something you'd see a professional detailer do.

I think best bet is to talk to the dealer principal, tell them NOT to go ahead with the buffing. Perhaps bring in a pro detailer to inspect the car, give them his opinion and use that to negotiate a discount based on the unsatisfactory condition of the car perhaps? Vividjazz has it right though - if you fail to get anywhere on that, contact Honda Australia.

this sounds like a very logical way to approach the situation, and as stated if all doesnt go YOUR way then call Honda Australia and be firm but not rude with them
just spin them shit like "I expected a quality vehicle from Honda, thats why I chose to purchase one ...etc..."

[NeoNode]

this sounds like a very logical way to approach the situation, and as stated if all doesnt go YOUR way then call Honda Australia and be firm but not rude with them
just spin them shit like "I expected a quality vehicle from Honda, thats why I chose to purchase one ...etc..."
That's not shit, you do expect a product free from swirls/scratches etc, although if the dealer had the car detailed just before delivery, you wouldn't know any better would you?

[jeffske]

That's not shit, you do expect a product free from swirls/scratches etc, although if the dealer had the car detailed just before delivery, you wouldn't know any better would you?

i didnt mean shit in a bad way dude, its just the way i "talk"
but yeh agreed, you expect a "new" car when you buy a new car

[strike]

That's not shit, you do expect a product free from swirls/scratches etc, although if the dealer had the car detailed just before delivery, you wouldn't know any better would you?

Yea, I will be going in requesting for a new car tomorrow, but when I talk to the manager tomorrow I'm worried that all the scratches are removed already, with no proof of previous swirl/scratches (with less 5-10% clear) + Paint protection on top.

Do you guys think I have a right in anyway to request for a new car, if it turns out spick and span tomorrow? I'm worried they will *** me over with delays if I request for a new car.

[NeoNode]

Even if they agreed to giving you a new car without swirls/scratches, how are you going to prove or know that the new car hasn't been detailed beforehand?

[strike]

Even if they agreed to giving you a new car without swirls/scratches, how are you going to prove or know that the new car hasn't been detailed beforehand?

So what are you suggesting? I should cop this one and stick with it? I'm pretty sure those scratches weren't from the detailer, but from wear and tear for the past 6 months. I mean the inner door handle area (both front doors) on the supposedly NEW Jazz has worst scratches than my 3 year old Black Mazda SP23. I think a new car would be much better condition than this?

Again, I'm not complaining that they're detailer scratched my car; (but he did do a very shit job in the first place to have all those swirls/scratches appear), but that these marks and scratches were marked on the car from a exterior showroom floor..

My girlfriend made a mistake of paying a expensive price and I think they are just trying to offload old stock to a clueless girl who doesn't know anything about cars - thinking they can happily get rid of it to her

[NeoNode]

See now you are disclosing more information which was never stated in your original post in regards to the interior.

Did you check how many kms has been racked up on the supposedly 'new' vehicle?

Wells, since you're not happy with this vehicle and provided a 'new' vehicle wouldn't have such issues, tell them you want a replacement, or they could offer to replace the parts in question and still go ahead with another detail...

Although my statement above still stands, it's almost impossible to prove that if they do decide to give you a replacement, it won't be detailed to remove swirls and scratches etc.

Goodluck.

[aaronng]

ALL cars come swirled when they remove the protective film and wipe off the residue. The only way you get a shiny swirl-free car from the showroom is to get one that has been detailed. Cars that get paint protection are usually detailed as well. That's why those look good.

[vtec-NA.th]

i just got my jazz last week. when u shine headlights on it (from my dad's car) you can see swirls on the back. I just thought that was because it was so new -_-"

[strike]

ALL cars come swirled when they remove the protective film and wipe off the residue. The only way you get a shiny swirl-free car from the showroom is to get one that has been detailed. Cars that get paint protection are usually detailed as well. That's why those look good.

The swirls are REALLY noticeable and there are scratches which I doubt came from taking off the protective film. i.e like scratches within the inner door handle areas of the paint. There even seems to be a nick in the door.


See now you are disclosing more information which was never stated in your original post in regards to the interior.

Did you check how many kms has been racked up on the supposedly 'new' vehicle?

Although my statement above still stands, it's almost impossible to prove that if they do decide to give you a replacement, it won't be detailed to remove swirls and scratches etc.

Goodluck.

Thanks for the words of wisdom and support, I wasn't able to fit in all the details within the first post... I don't like writing up long posts :P

Just found out that the person she bought the car with (bought the exact same car/model/colour) had a March 2007 build date, compared to her car which was a October 2006 build date. That is a 5 month difference.. She specifically specified to have the same model/quality car as her colleague who she bought the car together.

[defect]

request for a MAR 07 built model :)

[choey]

Oh it really sucks to hear something like this... My girlfriend also bought Jazz this month. I went to pick it up for her as well. Besides doing the usually check to see eveything works I didn't really pay too much attention for any scratches on the body but I better do that when I see her this weekend! Her car was built in Feb07 btw.

[Catcha]

your description of the car sounds like a used jazz..........if the interior was like that i wouldn't even bother putting a deposit on it

[strike]

Oh it really sucks to hear something like this... My girlfriend also bought Jazz this month. I went to pick it up for her as well. Besides doing the usually check to see eveything works I didn't really pay too much attention for any scratches on the body but I better do that when I see her this weekend! Her car was built in Feb07 btw.

At least it wasn't built half a year ago :/

[Dreams]

when was the order made till the day of pickup? was the car a ready stock car as the dealer mention? did they mention it is an old stock? was the deal on the 06 stock clearance?

it could be an 06 plated stock clearance hence you maybe get the best deal of it. sounds dodgey for sure. you couldve take a pic of the evidence, but im sure u wouldnt have a camera handy. but yeah, follow advice that been posted, especially the clock reading.

im guessing the car is black, my car was shiny as a glass when i got it no swirl was seen, i can see a polish wax residue arnd the jazz badge. maybe they do it proplery thats way.

good luck tommorow

[kid_dynamite]

Just found out that the person she bought the car with (bought the exact same car/model/colour) had a March 2007 build date, compared to her car which was a October 2006 build date. That is a 5 month difference.. She specifically specified to have the same model/quality car as her colleague who she bought the car together.


request for a MAR 07 built model :)


when was the order made till the day of pickup? was the car a ready stock car as the dealer mention? did they mention it is an old stock? was the deal on the 06 stock clearance?

it could be an 06 plated stock clearance hence you maybe get the best deal of it. sounds dodgey for sure. you couldve take a pic of the evidence, but im sure u wouldnt have a camera handy. but yeah, follow advice that been posted, especially the clock reading.


With respect to the posts above, a request for a specific build date may be hard to achieve. You gotta factor in considerations like - dealer demand, shipping delays, production queues, etc.

Your gf may have asked for the "model/quality car as her colleague" but to a dealer that's just looking for another Jazz VTiS in blue with manual and same options. It might be the case that the first one available was this one.

Of course if you went in ordering a 2007 plated car and they gave you this one it's not on. But I'm just saying that you really need to be clear when you're making a purchase. Suggest you go over the purchase contract really carefully and see what you signed into buying.

Anyway, interested to see what the update is today?

[lionhart87]

that sorted happened to my car.
when i payed my deposit i specifically requested it to b a new car eg JULY 06 build.. it was even on the contract.
When i went to pick it up, i realised it was a MARCH 06 build. I wasn't happy and didn't want the car, but they gave me the crap that i'll lose my deposit and wait another 3 months for the car.
Please tell me that wasn't another LARKE HOSKINS dealer, cos i swear i will never take it back to them for anything at all.
It ruined the my experience of buying my car and tarnished the honda reputation in my mind.

[didz]

Yes, a $200 deposit was paid when she signed off the 'Vehicle Purchase Contract'. Only problem is if matters turn sour, I am unsure if I am able to regain that deposit and also pay $1220 (5% of total price) for liquidated damages and costs stated in the contract...



The built date wasn't specified in the contract :( But haven't as of yet checked the clock. I think paying full price for a 6 month old car is unacceptable..

best to lose 1420 than to waste a lot more money in buying a car which you are not satisfied with.

[aaronng]

Hmm, that's odd. My dealer showed me a list of cars in the inventory, together with the build dates. I told them which one I wanted and that I wanted it picked up in 2 months time. They kept that car for me til the delivery date.

[spoondc2]

Hmm, that's odd. My dealer showed me a list of cars in the inventory, together with the build dates. I told them which one I wanted and that I wanted it picked up in 2 months time. They kept that car for me til the delivery date.

Do you ask for the list or they just show you?

[aaronng]

Do you ask for the list or they just show you?

I asked the salesperson what colours were available. He pulled up a page on his monitor and showed it to me. It was an inventory list with colour, base/luxury, manual/auto and time to arrival. There were those with 3 days ETA (means available in the holding yard), 2 weeks (at Honda's holding yard) and 2-3 months (still in Japan). I picked one that was available in the colour/model that I wanted and it was available within 2 weeks. I told them I wanted it in 2 months and they kept that "2 week" car for me for 2 months.

[Dreams]

I asked the salesperson what colours were available. He pulled up a page on his monitor and showed it to me. It was an inventory list with colour, base/luxury, manual/auto and time to arrival. There were those with 3 days ETA (means available in the holding yard), 2 weeks (at Honda's holding yard) and 2-3 months (still in Japan). I picked one that was available in the colour/model that I wanted and it was available within 2 weeks. I told them I wanted it in 2 months and they kept that "2 week" car for me for 2 months.

Yeah same here thats what they did to me too, the sales person which happend to be the manager too.

the stock list is australia wide

[Leprechaun]

ANy update on what happened today

Hope its good news...

[040501912]

did you buy it on special prices? if you do then you will getting the 06 models as they try to get rid of it ...

[channon]

which dealer did you buy the car from?
it would be good to tell us all so we can avoid that dealer~

[Catcha]

Why it may sound silly, I think most will give the deposit back....I mean really all you need to do it write in the local paper about how bad service is and splash there name right across it....next best thing is comsumer affairs, tell them you not happy and you take them to comsumer affairs, they will probably give you your deposit back after that.

[Drew]

I duno I had a good experience with a Courtney & Patterson Honda dealer in Heidelberg when I bought the EK

Going to get a Jazz next year ^_^

I mean completely unrelated to this but hey

[UNLS1]

alot of dealers have old stock thats been sitting around and never driven, if its an 06 model u will get the honda 5 yr warranty with premium roadside assist.

When i sell a car i make sure the customer knows its complianced year b4 they sign, some times if i have 2 ill give them the choice with discounting a lil more on the older model to make it more appealing.

The dealer doesnt have to tell u if its an 06-07 car, u can specify it on ur contract that u want an 07 plated car

I just tell people as i dont want the hassles at delivery as i want the customer to have a great purchase experience

[panda[cRx]]

nighthawk black will always show swirls!

and if you are not happy with the condition of the car dont accept it. if you are unhappy with it you dont have to take it.

[dc2dc2dc2]

tell them to go ead .

[jeffske]

tell them to go ead .

nah thats too subtle, i say collect the car and do what this guy did

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xRzdB9hG0I

may i suggest when you do it, wind down all the windows and scream "HONDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

[Bludger]

good idea

[UNLS1]

yeah pandas right, nighthawk black is such a soft paint, swirls are standard! lol

[preludacris]

my friends black jazz from donc honda came with fkn swirlmarks too. after the paint protection aswell, some punk must have washed the car and coated it in swirls.

we went back to them to fix it like 3 times , and it was barely fixed. wat pissed me off was that i couldnt remove the swirls myself, as i would remove the paint protection coat at the same time. fkn joke i swear.

[vtec-NA.th]

I've had my black jazz for 2 weeks now and the swirls seem to have disappeared. I've washed it once because it looked crap from being in the rain. :)

[SassyV]

Hey strike, sorry to hear about ur gf's jazz

I had exactly the same problem too, got my jazz at the end of last year nov/dec black brand new from doncaster honda dealers. It came with scratches and swirl marks all over the car, especially on the bonnet.
I complained about it and had to take the car in 3 - 4 times, everytime the said they cut and polish the car and buffed it but the marks were still there. The dealers and managers were dix, said thats what you get if you want a "black car" which is bs, and they just kept saying that's the best they can do.
Thoughts on what you should do, insist on them fixing it because you paid for a brand new car and brand new cars shouldn't come with swirl marks or scratches. And besides isn't there a cooling period if you don't want the car you can give it back. Just tell them that your not gonna accept a bunged up car.
Btw which dealer was this?

[yfin]

did you see your jazz prior to delivery? I remember seeing my Euro prior to delivery and it was coated in some weird glue like substance on the paint. It is really sticky! Removing that - especially if one is sloppy on a dark colour like black could easily show up swirls.

[SassyV]

I didn't see my jazz prior to delivery, I actually went to the dealer to pick it up. It was in pretty bad condition, with the swirl marks all over the car not to mention some deep scratches on the rear and sides and even the tint had a line in it. I had a horrific first experience with buying a new car. Took my car back and forth every week for 4 weeks to get everything fixed BUT only after complaining 234723487 times =.=

[preludacris]

I recommend a different dealership than Doncaster Honda.

[vupham]

If you have the money to buy a black nsx or a ferrari brand new and when you come to pick it up and you see the swirls, will you take it? personally i wouldnt, its pretty obvious. Same for this black jazz, its in our budget and if we paying for a new car, we should get a new car. Your gf's dealer is dodgy, they selling her the old stocks, remember you already paid $1000+ for the dilivery cost, it covers detailing the car, minor service etc.. so it is ready to go as a new car.

If you want to be picky and fussy when you buy a new car, tell them not to detail the paint for you, tell them not to wash or do anything to it and do it yourself when you take it home. Tell them exactly what you want, if you want a 07 model, tell them you want a 07 build or complaince.

[kenzi]

my gf have the same problem last year,but at that time my gf already pay all the money and we asking to refund ,if waste a lot of time to talk to them but finally we get back our money, just refund it, they always say many excuse,say ing that is a new car,if that one is a new car ,the car won't have scratched or they didn't take care of your car,also u are paying a lot of money ,of couse refund it and go to the other dealer to buy a new car,

[08ESE]

I own a nighthawk black jazz.... for the first 3 years i owned it, it would look sweet after a polish, then id wash it, the wax would come off and it would be VERY swirly. i thought i had stuffed the paint, until i went to supercheap, purchased a $29 electric buffer, and some decent swirl remover polish.

after doing the car with this, the pearl seemed to come back in the paint just as it did when the car was new, and after a wash or 5, NO SWIRLS.

hand polishing a black car is a waste of time.

a BAD hand polish can look nice when you pick the car up too.... then a week later when you wash it.... SWIRLS APPEAR.

Youll find the paint wasnt damaged at all, and a DECENT buff by a REAL detailer ( not some centrelink chick dealers seem to use ) would have got it sweet in 30 mins, and the swirls wouldnt come back.

Paint protection is the biggest RIP in the history of the automobile. DONT GET SUCKED INTO IT!!! Do people who spend 20 grand on a show quality paint job get it...... NO THEY DONT!