Effect of I/H/E mods + ECU Tune

[civic-dream]

Hi guys,

Just something I've been curious about...

How much of a difference is there in power gains between a stock engine tuned with an aftermarket ECU(stand-alone not piggyback), and an engine with I/H/E mods already done before an ECU is installed and tuned?

Does the ECU tuning affectively amplify the power gain of each I/H/E modification individually? or does it just amplify the total gain of the I/H/E as a whole?

just wondering out of boredom... wanna know if its actually worth buying a stand-alone ecu+tune for people who already have I/H/E mods on their NA engines who want another performance gain.

:wave:

[JasonGilholme]

ECU will make the most of what ever mods you've got.

You'll find you can make the car alot leaner and get more power out of it with better breathing mods. (IHE)

[[[d a n n y]]]

ECU are always a god upgrade
and when u want to mod it more all u have to do is get it retuned

[Riced_Civic]

wat about piggy-back systems would they have the same effect?
aslo wat about like Vafc, Safc or even roms?

[civic-dream]

does anyone know any examples of power figures before and after ECU tune for cars that only have I/H/E mods?

I know that good tuning brings other advantageous besides power output such as fuel efficiency etc, which is another good reason to get it done..

[dudeling7]

piggy back systems like vafc and safc are decent but nowhere near as good as standalone systems.

vafc and safc can only chage air fuel ratios in which you will get gains if you have i/h/e

the big difference is that they cannont change ignition timing for each throttle position and load etc....only air/fuel

[.::F[L]Y::.]

personally if you have i/h/e then i reckon its a must to get an ecu to finish it off.

I recommend going for a hondata. S200-s300 :)

[didz]

the gains all depend on which brand I/H/E u have! then ontop of that the tuning qualirty and the ecu u use.

Pay more money = more performance (in most cases).

[De_Cruelz]

The ECU and a good tune will result in power gains for the 'package' that you have as a whole. Ofcourse, the quality and the right combination of the package(ECU + tune & I/H/E) is equally important to get the best out of each individual part.

An aftermarket ECU should bring about approximately 7-10Kw(possibly less/more) after tuning. Please bare in mind that this is merely a very, very rough estimation as there are too many variables which may affect the final output of the car.

[Riced_Civic]

wat about Greedy blue or ultimate, i know ppl say there not good but yeah that also does ignition as well doesnt it/.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

the gains all depend on which brand I/H/E u have! then ontop of that the tuning qualirty and the ecu u use.

Pay more money = more performance (in most cases).

thats not entirely true....

sometimes the cheaper less branded stuff works just as well or even better than the jdm branded gear. sometimes its just bling the branded stuff.....

to have the most effective setup possible to is run the right combo and get the right advice. So many ppl get jipped spending big bucks on motors which struggle to out perform a standard motor.

[dundas]

Y::.;1155547']thats not entirely true....

sometimes the cheaper less branded stuff works just as well or even better than the jdm branded gear. sometimes its just bling the branded stuff.....

to have the most effective setup possible to is run the right combo and get the right advice. So many ppl get jipped spending big bucks on motors which struggle to out perform a standard motor.


correct... many have proven this theory..
BUT it doesnt go astray with going for "quality" stuff... doesn't need to be the most $$$//// but the better quality.

[string]

Yeah I agree the general rule is you get what you pay for; and that time is money.

Generally the expensive items have far more R&D to give better gains.

Either way, I/H/E won't really give you much of a performance increase; a little bit of torque here and there you really need to be bringing the torque curve up to get the most gains; things like cams and cam timing, head work, intake manifolds and a GOOD header.

I/H/E sure is cheap though (to a degree).

[ALLMTR996]

Reading some of the replies in this thread FLY has first hand knowledge of what basic mods I/H/E and ECU and has the times at the drags to backup his knowledge and claims.The products used in his car where very simple boltons + a good ECU + tuned correctly to suit the mods + they listened to advice about not doing mods the wrong way and the results came first time out at the drags.Please think very carefully before buying name brands without asking someone like FLY that has been there done that.
ALLMTR996

[didz]

Y::.;1155547']thats not entirely true....

sometimes the cheaper less branded stuff works just as well or even better than the jdm branded gear. sometimes its just bling the branded stuff.....

to have the most effective setup possible to is run the right combo and get the right advice. So many ppl get jipped spending big bucks on motors which struggle to out perform a standard motor.

like i said in most cases....

I was not referring to just buying the most expensive parts. It all depends o what you yourself think is a lot of money. I will use my honda as an example. Many people say to me i should get toda or spoon exhause systems. (2000-3000+)
For an Intake system people believe Injen, Mugen or Gruppe M (500-900-800??)
Tuning. this is the expensive part because if not done correctly its a mess.
K100 or K100pro (not too sure on actual prices but i believe the ecu is around 800 and the tuning is an aditional 600 then extra for more refined tuning)

Based on a round figure on this i would be looking at AT LEAST 4.5 - 5k to have it set up well.

(Not definate on actual figures)

[dsp26]

Y::.;1155547']thats not entirely true....

sometimes the cheaper less branded stuff works just as well or even better than the jdm branded gear. sometimes its just bling the branded stuff.....

to have the most effective setup possible to is run the right combo and get the right advice. So many ppl get jipped spending big bucks on motors which struggle to out perform a standard motor.

thats true.

especially since the tune of VAFC works on WOT (open loop) only.

a VAFC would make a good addition to a generic chip like the spoon one where it has a base tune for open/closed loop (cruise). the vafc will refine WOT when you have your foot down.

the reason i've always said emanage is better than vafc is not because of the addition of ignition tuning, but because emanage accomodates 2 seperate tunes.. partial and full throttle.

for those who don't understand what open/closed loop is, please do some research as i'm not in the mood to explain it into too much detail... but basically closed loop refines a/f mixtures based on the O2 sensor signals, whereas open loop has a set linear rich fuel map for people who fang the crap out of their motors.

[pornstar]

especially since the tune of VAFC works on WOT (open loop) only.

erm.....no vafc works all the time, there is alot of misinformation about closed & open loop.

[dsp26]

especially since the tune of VAFC works on WOT (open loop) only.

erm.....no vafc works all the time, there is alot of misinformation about closed & open loop.

sorry let me corerct my error in typing....

when cars are run on dyno they are run at WOT.

vafc being an interceptor changes signals it's supposed to get... so you will either have to tune it for either WOT or partial... in which case the latter is useless as theres no point improving power there when the O2 can compensate for it... therefore you do tune it for WOT as people don't race on partial throttle....

***EDIT***
also, interceptor tunes are only as good as the sensors and grounding on the car. i know the B series uses map, but say you used the SAFC variant on a car with an AFM... the grounding is usually stuffed on an sr20 or 4age hence why people reground it... if it was tuned on stuffed ground and good connection is made here and there then the tune is useless.

don't get me wrong i have nothing against piggys as i plan to get emanage now that i've discovered someone here can tune one.... i was simply re-iterating FLYs point about combinations as that is the fundamental of car modification... making parts work together and not buying the most expensive brands.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: