Mod help

[hondavti25]

hey appart from a new exhaust and intake manifold and CAI what other NA mods that arent insane in price could i get in my car proformance wise for a16y8 VTEC? and it cant be stuff i have to take out for a turbo coz i plan on that in the next year any suggestions would be awesome thanks :D

[notorious_ahmie]

throttle body?coil pack

[destrukshn]

no point in throttle body
those cars don't use coil packs dude.
lol.
maybe a piggy back ecu? cams?
n/a's suck, they cost too much to mod.
lol.

[notorious_ahmie]

tell me bout it lol

[hondavti25]

yeah hense why i plan to be turbo next year but it be awesome to have as much power as possible then add turbo .... be killer i think

[joey99]

you guys are right ... so little gain for so much money.

[micky_d01]

Heres a great quote from the informative howstuffworks.com -

"There are many different ways to create more horsepower from a stock engine. Here are several examples (generally in order from least to most difficult/expensive):

Change your computer chip -- sometimes, but certainly not always, you can change a car's performance by changing the ROM chip in the engine control unit (ECU). You usually buy these chips from aftermarket performance dealers. It is valuable to read an independent review of the chip you are contemplating, because some chips are all hype and no performance.

Let air come in more easily - As a piston moves down in the intake stroke, air resistance can rob power from the engine. Some newer cars are using polished intake manifolds to eliminate air resistance there. Bigger air filters and reduced intake piping can also improve air flow.

Let exhaust exit more easily - If air resistance or back-pressure makes it hard for exhaust to exit a cylinder, it robs the engine of power. If the exhaust pipe is too small or the muffler has a lot of air resistance then this can cause back-pressure. High-performance exhaust systems use headers, big tail pipes and free-flowing mufflers to eliminate back-pressure in the exhaust system.

Change the heads and cams -- Many stock engines have one intake valve and one exhaust valve. Buying a new head that has four valves per cylinder will dramatically improve airflow in and out of the engine and this can improve power. Using performance cams can also make a big difference.

Stuff more into each cylinder - If you can cram more air (and therefore fuel) into a cylinder of a given size, you can get more power from the cylinder (in the same way that you would by increasing the size of the cylinder). Turbo chargers and super chargers pressurize the incoming air to effectively cram more air into a cylinder. Many manufacturers make aftermarket turbos and super chargers for many different cars.

Cool the incoming air - Compressing air raises its temperature. You would like to have the coolest air possible in the cylinder because the hotter the air is the less it will expand when combustion takes place. Therefore many turbo charged and super charged cars have an intercooler. An intercooler is a special radiator through which the compressed air passes to cool it off before it enters the cylinder.

Make everything lighter - Lightweight parts help the engine perform better. Each time a piston changes direction it uses up energy to stop the travel in one direction and start it in another. The lighter the piston, the less energy it takes. Lighter parts also allow the engine to rev faster, giving it more horsepower.

Increase the compression ratio - Higher compression ratios produce more power, up to a point. The more you compress the air/fuel mixture, however, the more likely it is to spontaneously burst into flame (prior to the spark plug igniting it). Higher octane gasolines prevent this sort of early combustion. That is why high-performance cars generally need high octane gasoline - their engines are using higher compression ratios to get more power.

Increase displacement - More displacement means more power because you can burn more gas during each revolution of the engine. You can increase displacement by making the cylinders bigger.

As soon as you start to try increasing displacement, you might consider the economics of buying a new high-performance engine and trying to fit it into your car -- it may be easier and cheaper!"

[CTR Coupe]

Heres a great quote from the informative howstuffworks.com -

"There are many different ways to create more horsepower from a stock engine. Here are several examples (generally in order from least to most difficult/expensive):

Change your computer chip -- sometimes, but certainly not always, you can change a car's performance by changing the ROM chip in the engine control unit (ECU). You usually buy these chips from aftermarket performance dealers. It is valuable to read an independent review of the chip you are contemplating, because some chips are all hype and no performance.

Let air come in more easily - As a piston moves down in the intake stroke, air resistance can rob power from the engine. Some newer cars are using polished intake manifolds to eliminate air resistance there. Bigger air filters and reduced intake piping can also improve air flow.

Let exhaust exit more easily - If air resistance or back-pressure makes it hard for exhaust to exit a cylinder, it robs the engine of power. If the exhaust pipe is too small or the muffler has a lot of air resistance then this can cause back-pressure. High-performance exhaust systems use headers, big tail pipes and free-flowing mufflers to eliminate back-pressure in the exhaust system.

Change the heads and cams -- Many stock engines have one intake valve and one exhaust valve. Buying a new head that has four valves per cylinder will dramatically improve airflow in and out of the engine and this can improve power. Using performance cams can also make a big difference.

Stuff more into each cylinder - If you can cram more air (and therefore fuel) into a cylinder of a given size, you can get more power from the cylinder (in the same way that you would by increasing the size of the cylinder). Turbo chargers and super chargers pressurize the incoming air to effectively cram more air into a cylinder. Many manufacturers make aftermarket turbos and super chargers for many different cars.

Cool the incoming air - Compressing air raises its temperature. You would like to have the coolest air possible in the cylinder because the hotter the air is the less it will expand when combustion takes place. Therefore many turbo charged and super charged cars have an intercooler. An intercooler is a special radiator through which the compressed air passes to cool it off before it enters the cylinder.

Make everything lighter - Lightweight parts help the engine perform better. Each time a piston changes direction it uses up energy to stop the travel in one direction and start it in another. The lighter the piston, the less energy it takes. Lighter parts also allow the engine to rev faster, giving it more horsepower.

Increase the compression ratio - Higher compression ratios produce more power, up to a point. The more you compress the air/fuel mixture, however, the more likely it is to spontaneously burst into flame (prior to the spark plug igniting it). Higher octane gasolines prevent this sort of early combustion. That is why high-performance cars generally need high octane gasoline - their engines are using higher compression ratios to get more power.

Increase displacement - More displacement means more power because you can burn more gas during each revolution of the engine. You can increase displacement by making the cylinders bigger.

As soon as you start to try increasing displacement, you might consider the economics of buying a new high-performance engine and trying to fit it into your car -- it may be easier and cheaper!"

what a pointless block of text, most of the items mentioned do not fall under the context of this thread being inexpensive and compatible with turbo.


probably your best bet would be to pick up an aftermarket ECU since you will need one for your turbo setup. the only problem is that you will have to have it tuned twice when you install it and again when you have the turbo kit installed.

Some of the ECUs available

-Hondata
-AEM EMS
-Motec
-Apexi Power FC
-Microtech
-many others

I wouldn't bother with interceptors like the Apexi VAFC.
They just don't have the tuneability to get the most out of the motor and the VAFC will have to be replaced when you go turbo as it doesn't have enough adjustment to compensate for turbo.

Good ECUs and Tuning don't come cheep but at least if you get the right one it will mean more HP when you do get your turbo setup.

another option for improving performance without breaking the bank is removing weight. removing items such as carpet, sound deadening material, rear seats, trim. Fitting replacement carbon (preferably dry carbon) items like bonnet and boot. dry cell battery replacement.

[TheSaint]

i always thought the power fc was a piggy back like the vafc

does the power fc have vtec control abilities and suitable for tuning vtec engines? (not that u would want to change vtec - iv just heard alot of good things about the vafc)

[Bludger]

^^ other way around

vafc is only a tenth of FC, if not less

[TheFranchise]

yeah hense why i plan to be turbo next year


if i were you, and your 100% set on the turbo idea...i'd forget about trying to get extra (cheap) power in the mean time and save your coin to ensure the turbo job is done properly.

if you want something new in the meantime, upgrade your breaks, suspension and even flywheel/clutch, this will be very useful once the turbo is done and it'll give you better handling and control until then.

[taman]

a lightweight flywheel would be good... not that expensive either...

[CTR Coupe]

i always thought the power fc was a piggy back like the vafc

does the power fc have vtec control abilities and suitable for tuning vtec engines? (not that u would want to change vtec - iv just heard alot of good things about the vafc)

with the VAFC you gain 3hp at max. and thats with a professional tune. in most cases you will gain nothing. all you can do is "trick" the ecu to delivering more fuel by intercepting the voltage from sensors and changing it. the change is marginal +/-.05%

Power FC does support changing vtec however it is limited support.


The VAFC is a interceptor device, it changes the out put signal of the ECU to either supply more or less fuel at 6 different RPM points. The only problem with this is the ECU has a self feed back mode where it can detect a small change in the fuel output measured from the o2 sensor before the cat and can alter the fuel settings directly form the ECU and so called “reset the car back to how its ment 2 be running from factory”......
yes even your ECU after a while will adapt and change and revert what ever you tune into you AFC back to stock.


i found this with just quick search of VAFC on ozhonda there heaps of posts out there saying how much a waste of time a VAFC is.


heres a ECU comparison chart for those that are interested. is outdated as AEM EMS is not on there.
provided thanks to the good folks at
Hondata Australia
http://blkcrx.hondata.com.au/blkcrx/hondatech/ECUComparisonPage.htm

[CTR Coupe]

if i were you, and your 100% set on the turbo idea...i'd forget about trying to get extra (cheap) power in the mean time and save your coin to ensure the turbo job is done properly.

if you want something new in the meantime, upgrade your breaks, suspension and even flywheel/clutch, this will be very useful once the turbo is done and it'll give you better handling and control until then.

I 100% agree with this. make changes elsewhere in the car upgraded pads or braking package. id probably leave flywheel/clutch until you wear out the current one(wont last long with the turbo ;) ) that way you will match the clutch with the amount of power you are producing.

[micky_d01]

what a pointless block of text, most of the items mentioned do not fall under the context of this thread being inexpensive and compatible with turbo.

Well I do appreciate your contradiction by recommending ECU and weight reduction, both of which were detailed in my "pointless block of text". If you must mention "pointless", how about mention the redundancy of your post. If I may clarify, this topic is only regarding modifications that don't require REMOVAL upon turbo installation (and not those COMPATIBLE with a turbo - as 'CTR Coupe' was otherwise misinformed).

But for a constructive response, the only two factors in making maximum horsepower is -

A. Making maximum power in the cylinders;

This is true since the burning of fuel and air (incl. NOS) is the only source of power in unhybridized Honda's. Turbo's, intercoolers, ECU's, bigger engine's, etc all help maximize power production.

B. Transferring that power to the road as efficiently as possible.

Only a considerably small percentage of the energy born in the combustion of an engine is kinetic energy (Horse Power in other words) by the time it arrives at the wheels (the majority is lost to thermal and sound energies).

These include modifications like ideal flowing exhausts and tyre upgrades (compound and size is important). For example - under hard accelleration, a narrow tyre of a hard rubber compound will spin (converting what was potential kinetic energy into sound and thermal energy) whereas a wider tyre of a softer rubber compound will retain grip and hence harness all the potential kinetic energy.

In laymans terms, every performance modification that isnt replaced by a turbo (this typically includes cold air intakes, header upgrades and tune - as it must then be retuned) is "compatible" with a turbo. And such upgrades will all enhance the benefits of a turbo in terms of efficiency.

[hondavti25]

well my plan is just to replace maybe flywheel clutch atm ...and just save for the turbo kit and ill be using hondata s100 or 200 not sure i heard there isnt a big differance in the 2 so yeah...

question how bad would my suspention be for the turbo set up ? is it a must or will it go aslong as i dont try anything dumb....i am thinking about either Skunk2 coilovers or TEIN?

another one any one know what flywheel and clutchto use for a D16y8?

as for the turbo kit Greddy T3 kit with probs a Greddy intercooler but if there is a cheeper option that does same stuff i am open for ideas... and it be a good idea to included a oil cooler wouldnt it ?

what sort of power would i get out of the bolt on + ecu tunning ? any idea

[TheSaint]

the hondata s200 is looking pretty nice from that list

[hondavti25]

i take it back :P i wont need hondata greddy kits come with emanage so at least not for a while ill need it

[micky_d01]

Your HP and torque figures are totally dependant on what PSI you choose to run.

According to www.redbook.com.au your car puts out 93kW @ 6600rpm when manufactured. Since it's naturally aspirated, thats running at ~14PSI (atmosphere). So to get a rough idea of what you potentially make, if you ran your Greddy at 7PSI (50% atmosphere) your engine would produce 50% more power (since its burning 50% more air and fuel). Here are the following averages for your car with a full Greddy kit (the site doesn't specify however I would assume the figures are taken at the wheels) -

5PSI - 126.2 kW
7PSI - 139.5 kW
10PSI - 159.4 kW
12PSI - 172.7 kW
15PSI - 192.6 kW
19PSI - 219.2 kW

Note: If 7PSI is exceeded, engine internals (pistons and connecting rods) should be upgraded at the very minimum. Or run the hassle of replacing your block every year (which isnt that big a deal since d16's go for only ~$400). These numbers are assuming that appropriate fuel line upgrades are carried out (fuel injectors, fuel rail and fuel pump - injectors most important, rail and pump optional).

[hondavti25]

i see thats really helpful man thanks this is what i am thinking about starting with
EJ8, its a basic Greddy bolt on kit and i think ill go with a yanaka intercooler kit excedy clutch and leave it as is for now just to have some fun untill i can get more hard out mods....
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/sale/Greddy/Turbos/Turbo_Kits/part/Bolt_On
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/price/Honda/Civic/Yonaka_Motorsports/Intercoolers/Intercoolers

no idea which clutch to use as yet, and maybe add a light wieght flywheel.

nothing i need to add i think i need BOV and Boostcontroller other then that open for suggestions

[micky_d01]

I wouldnt b afraid to buy stuff like intercooler and BOV's off Ebay. Boost controllers I wouldnt (unless it's a well known model) because they have the potential to blow up your engine. You could either find another Ebay kit like the one below but made for you EJ, or just buy this one for the intercooler and BOV.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Intercooler-and-piping-Greddy-Blow-off-valve-CRX-CIVIC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ002QQit emZ120137667093QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Remember bigger intercoolers are better for HP gains, but promote turbo lag (more delay between pedal and feeling boost), so bigger isn't necessarily better.

Boost controllers are definetely worth the money (sine there only a few hundred). Just go for a simple, well built mechanical controller if nothing else.

And finally, there's a lot of contraversy around lightened flywheels with turbo's. I'm not too sure which way to go (pro's and con's on either side of the arguement) but if your replacing your clutch then you may as well lighten the flywheel aswell, just let us know how it goes with your turbo. Exedy seems to be the leading retailer of clutch disks - can't argue with that.