DA9 Starts, but dies immediately??

[Paul1985]

Hey guys.
On the way to work this morning my DA9 died. It has always had a fairly rough idle but never any serious issues.

Now it starts but only if i rev the accelerator at full throttle and hold it there. As soon as i remove my foot from WOT for a second it dies instantly.

Anyone have any ideas on what the problem could be?
I need to get this resolved ASAP.

Im thinking a MAP sensor / Air flow meter kind of fault. Or maybe the throttle body / IACV is filthy.

Any ideas?

thanks,
Paul.

[bennjamin]

do a DIY ecu test and see where that gets you.

Otherwise the MAP sensor might be faulty or disconnected totally (revs will die straight away after letting go of the throttle)
Have you or anyone played with the idle screw (on the throttle body) ?

[Paul1985]

do a DIY ecu test and see where that gets you.

Otherwise the MAP sensor might be faulty or disconnected totally (revs will die straight away after letting go of the throttle)
Have you or anyone played with the idle screw (on the throttle body) ?

No, nobody has touched the car at all..
ill check the MAP sensor.
Thanks Ben.

Im also thinking maybe a blocked fuel filter???

[bennjamin]

No, nobody has touched the car at all..
ill check the MAP sensor.
Thanks Ben.

Im also thinking maybe a blocked fuel filter???

possible - must have had a bunch of bad fuel run thru it and very old tho :)
I hope the issue isnt your main relay or distributor (coil or Igniter unit)

[lil_miss_vtec]

I had this problem recently in my shitter I drive to work and back.

I had to jump start my car and the main fuse for the alternator etc blew in the process so the battery was dead flat and the alternator wasn't charging the battery, every time I tried to start the car it would die like yours,
my shitter is carb though so I don't know if injected cars have a fuse like that or not but its a suggetsion :)

[Paul1985]

thanks for all the help so far. ill check as much of it out as i can tonight. hopefully i can work it out without needing to get a mobile mechanic.

[Paul1985]

im thinking it could be a main relay as i dont think the dash lights were working with ignition on. i gotta go check it all out.

Anyone know if u can use a EG main relay on a DA9 or how to test the current one????

[BluEG]

check all your basics first like

spark plugs,
is the fuel pump priming engine,
is there spark?
fuel filter?
battery voltage?
etc etc

could be bad fuel or something simple.

[garett]

might sound stupid but is the key turning it off... ?

i had the same problem with my old lude. turned out it was the ingition barrel and wasnt holding it on so i would turn it and it would start, as soon as i let go of the key it would die in the arse.... pain in the arse!

[Paul1985]

check all your basics first like

spark plugs,
is the fuel pump priming engine,
is there spark?
fuel filter?
battery voltage?
etc etc

could be bad fuel or something simple.

The car starts if i hold the accelerator pedal on.. so there must be spark and the pump must be priming.. the battery has full voltage and is starting the car.. didnt get a chance to look at the filter.. i really dont think this is the cause though..

I had a quick look at the car and towed it back to my gf house.

The car will only start with WOT and when i hold the key on start. As soon as i remove my foot or the key the car RPM goes to zero instantly.

Also, with the ignition to ON, there are no dash lights/indicators/power windows etc.. radio still works and so do hazards. Whilst im holding the ignition on start and the cars cranking and revving, these things all work again (indicators etc).

Where is the main relay, also can i use one off an EG or is there any way of testing the current one??

Ben, do you have more info on checking the distributer?

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

so you're not getting a check engine light?

[Paul1985]

so you're not getting a check engine light?

Because i have no dash lights with ignition on i cant check but i possibly do, i wanted to check for fault codes, but i cant without no dash lights.

It could be the barrell. How did you resolve that issue garett???
Did you replace the barrell

[Mr_will]

i vote for pgmfi relay.

i'd say you know where it is, but in case you dont it is on the drivers side, near the fuse box, brown case thingo.

you can resolder it pretty easily.

it is a very common issue on da9s and worth checking imho

[bennjamin]

As above. Its got 10mm nut holding it to the underside of the dash , its abit easier to take the lower plastic skrit off (below the steering wheel) to access it.

A word of advice - take the plastic cover off (grey) and drill a number of largish holes all over it. Acts as a heat vent as opposed to a heat sink :)

[Paul1985]

As above. Its got 10mm nut holding it to the underside of the dash , its abit easier to take the lower plastic skrit off (below the steering wheel) to access it.

A word of advice - take the plastic cover off (grey) and drill a number of largish holes all over it. Acts as a heat vent as opposed to a heat sink :)

Ill go check that out now...
This is the main relay we are talking about correct?

So if the joints are all and well then its not a main relay problem?

[Paul1985]

Just pulled it out and looked at it, all looks fine. All the joints are still soldered together well.
Is it worth buing another one of these relays and trying it?
Could it possibly have damage that isnt visible?

I should check the distributer aswell.
Anyone know of any dizzy checks i can do?

[bennjamin]

Just pulled it out and looked at it, all looks fine. All the joints are still soldered together well.
Is it worth buing another one of these relays and trying it?
Could it possibly have damage that isnt visible?

I should check the distributer aswell.
Anyone know of any dizzy checks i can do?

just try to borrow one from a know good DA9 first. swap it , and see if it gets the same result.
Next , borrow a dizzy from a know good DA9 too - do the same as above.

[Mr_will]

Just pulled it out and looked at it, all looks fine. All the joints are still soldered together well.
Is it worth buing another one of these relays and trying it?
Could it possibly have damage that isnt visible?

I should check the distributer aswell.
Anyone know of any dizzy checks i can do?

imo you cant go wrong buying another relay for several reasons

1) its going to die sometime anyway, they all seem to

2) it completely eliminates a potential problem, and will make figuring out what is really wrong easier, even if it isnt the cause itself

[Paul1985]

Well tomorrow im thinking about heading to the wreckers to pick up a PGMFI relay and quiet possibly a dizzy/coil if they have one for the right price. I know theres a possibility that the relay i buy might be bad too, but its worth trying. If i cant get it resolved by monday im taking it to the mechanics as i need my car. I would love to be able to resolve it myself though.

There has to be an electrical problem as there is nothing when ignition is "on"
what a headache!

[Mr_will]

if you have no luck finding a relay, i have one that i will happily sell you on the cheap, the bonus is i know this one works 100%

[ECU-MAN]

change your spark plugs. also have you checked your rotor button, some times they sheer off and only just hang on and still rotate, but the timing is way off, so the engine will splutter like it is for you.


if your car is OBDI then the EG main relay will work. if it is OBDO then it wont work.

if its OBDO look for fault codes on the ECU itself.

if its OBDI, ( grey ecu connectors ), put a test light ( 5w globe ) on the ECU pin A13 to 12v. this will act as the MIL, check for codes.


if you start the car then loose reds, then thats commonly is the ignition switch (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32333).

good luck with your testing

[Paul1985]

Mr. Will: ill let you know, i may be interested.

Im going to change plugs.. they didnt look too bad though. Im also going to try a new ignition switch.

Now when im cranking my distributor makes the most awful loud grinding sound. I pulled the cap off and the rottor button and contacts look quiet worn.

I think i might buy a new dizzy. What do u guys think?? I was quoted $250 just then by a wrecker..

So new dizzy, plugs, ign switch and possibly a main relay. This will surely narrow the problem.

I will also go find out whether my DA is obd0 or obd1 and hopefully i can do a test with a test light on it as john mentioned. Might throw some helpful codes.

[Mr_will]

if you take a photo of the front/rear bar it'll be easy to tell if its obd0 or obd1

obd0 = 3 vent in front bar (under turn signals, in middle)

obd1 = 1 vent in front bar (middle only)


youll probably figure it out anyways, but just in case :)

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

fyi main fuel relay is currently on back order from honda. dont expect one in a hurry.

[Paul1985]

This would mean this is OBD0 then correct?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b35/Paul_K_1985/72.jpg

Where the %^* is the ECU. Is it not under the passenger side kick panel??? Or am i just blind lol. I need to d/l a manual for this car.. its just a puzzle this problem..

ATM im tempting to change plugs, dizzy, ignition switch and main relay hoping that those things will solve the issue.. but im also so tempted to call a mechanic to fix it as i need my car done soon.

Anyone know where i can get any of those parts??
Hondaworld said they dont have the dizzys for sale but they will fix mine for $270. The other wrecker said they would check if they have a dizzy and call me back and never did....

If anyone has any of these parts let me know... I might make a WTB thread.

[BluEG]

ecu should be under the glove box in the foot well area,
pull the carpet out and you will see the ecu cover

[Paul1985]

if its OBDO look for fault codes on the ECU itself.


How do i do this?
And i gotta find where my ECU is located :P lol.

[BluEG]

the ecu will have a led on it that flashes codes.

[garett]

Because i have no dash lights with ignition on i cant check but i possibly do, i wanted to check for fault codes, but i cant without no dash lights.

It could be the barrell. How did you resolve that issue garett???
Did you replace the barrell

yeh mate i had the switch part of it replaced. so i could still use the same key, wasnt pricey at all. i think 100bucks inc labour from a place in moorabin.

[garett]

the ECU is located where you put your feet on the passenger side mounted against the firewall. if you pull the carpet back you will see a black cover plate and a view hole with a window this is where you can see the LED from.

you are prob better off having your dizzy repaired anyway as if you buy a used one it may not be far from being worn out...

[Mr_will]

This would mean this is OBD0 then correct?



correct :thumbsup:

[Paul1985]

the ECU is located where you put your feet on the passenger side mounted against the firewall. if you pull the carpet back you will see a black cover plate and a view hole with a window this is where you can see the LED from.

you are prob better off having your dizzy repaired anyway as if you buy a used one it may not be far from being worn out...

Do i need to bridge a connector to do this test?
I know you gotta bridge the 2-pin check connector for checking other models for fault codes. Is it the same with my DA9?

My moneys on the IGN switch bad, aswell as something else (dizzy most likely).. if i gotta hold the barrell at the "start" position then the ignition obviously is only getting contact at that point.. Especially when nothing is operational with the key set to "on".

Im worried what the grinding sound is now.

[Mr_will]

you can bridge them using a paperclip, thats what i did - fyi you dont need to take the ecu out or anything, just find the connector.

as far as your ignition barrel goes, i'd suggest removing it and checking the joints, if you can resolder them and try just wiring it up to start it might not fix the problem as such, but itll tell you if that is/isnt the problem and potentially save you replacing it when it isnt the problem

[ECU-MAN]

if your Distributor Connector is Grey then OBDI, if they are yellow(ish) then OBDO. OBDO doesnt have any SCS connector. in the Centre of the ECU there is a window and with the Ignotion switch on the LED will flash out a fault code.

look into the window and as you turn on the ignition the red LED should slightly flicker to show corect operation.

[garett]

Do i need to bridge a connector to do this test?
I know you gotta bridge the 2-pin check connector for checking other models for fault codes. Is it the same with my DA9?

My moneys on the IGN switch bad, aswell as something else (dizzy most likely).. if i gotta hold the barrell at the "start" position then the ignition obviously is only getting contact at that point.. Especially when nothing is operational with the key set to "on".

Im worried what the grinding sound is now.


well when it happened to me i found that if i held the key the engine would stay running however the starter motor would keep going too. so that would prob be your grinding issue. if it starts and runs there is no issue with your dizzy mate.

[Paul1985]

well when it happened to me i found that if i held the key the engine would stay running however the starter motor would keep going too. so that would prob be your grinding issue. if it starts and runs there is no issue with your dizzy mate.

Quiet possibly.
I hope thats all it is.. makes sense. Thats a good point garett
I will soon find out once the car starts whether its dizzy/starter motor or anything else. Im picking up a ignition switch from honda tonight for $94.

Dont know if ill get a chance to replace it tonight as i have alot of running around to do as i dont have a car atm, i need to do a few things while i can.

Ill let you know how it goes.

Thanks for all the replies so far. All have helped so much. Im not the greatest with diagnosis :P

[Paul1985]

By the time you have diagnosed and fixed everything you have been running in to lately you will have done enough to finish your apprenticeship :p

Tell me about it. Ive had the worst run recently with cars.. doesnt look to be getting better..

last night i put the switch in and it didnt quiet fit in the back of the ignition barrell properly, i ended up cracking it trying to tighten it aswell.. i looked at the 2 switches and they look the same, but there is a number different on one of them. Hmmm.. the key didnt fit into the switch through the barrell properly when i first put it on and tightened it up, but i was able to wiggle it a little and guess what... I had ignition!!

I was excited at first, but i was unable to move the key properly and didnt get to try crank the car.. Then when i was taking off the switch from the barrell i accidently shorted something on the back of the switch with the screwdriver. I dont know how the f**k i managed that but now i got nothing again. Cant even crank the car now, even with the old switch on.

Anyone know what i could possibly have done, and what fuse i may have blown??

[Paul1985]

i read somewhere someone did a similar thing and blew a 50A fuse.
Anyone know where id find this on a DA9? Would it be an underhood or underdash fuse.

My underhood one has only relays i think and no diagram to say what they are.

[CRXer]

The only fuse u could have shorted is the 50A ignition fuse in the underhood fuse box.

U should be able to see the link broken in the middle of the fuse,if u dont know take a close up pic & we'll be able to tell u.

[Paul1985]

The only fuse u could have shorted is the 50A ignition fuse in the underhood fuse box.

U should be able to see the link broken in the middle of the fuse,if u dont know take a close up pic & we'll be able to tell u.

Theres no 50A fuse written on the underdash fusebox diagram.
Anyone know if it could be anywhere else?

[aus91integra]

under hood.. black plastic box near brake booster

[Paul1985]

under hood.. black plastic box near brake booster

I know where the underdash fusebox is, i even have the cover off and have looked at the diagram.. Doesnt say anything about a 50 amp fuse though.
Im yet to physically look, but i dont think ill find it too easily..

Just wondering if anyone knows where this fuse is from experience.

[CRXer]

As we keep sayin "underhood"

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/CRXer/cimg3282vp6.jpg

thanx for the photo whoever owns this engine bay

[bennjamin]

apart from eveything else...have you tried swapping the dizzy and or main relay or even ECU with a good known unit ? for testing sake ?

[LiL FiLo]

I used to have DA9 B16a, had this problem before but it might not b the same thing, it was to do with the auto choke, you hav to accelerate heaps while turnin the motor to get it started. only happened in cold conditions not after the motor was at running temp.

[Paul1985]

apart from eveything else...have you tried swapping the dizzy and or main relay or even ECU with a good known unit ? for testing sake ?

I would if i had access to these items.. Im going to see where i get with this ignition switch and go from there. Hopefully i can get my car at least running..

I found the fuse by downloading the helms for a DA9, yes it was underhood not dash lol. The fuse was blown.

Also found the 40A fuse for the heater under the dash is blown.
Going to replace the ignition fuse and try the ignition switch i bought (hopefully its ok) and go from there. Hoping to get a fuse tonight.

[Jon_51]

it'd be a good idea to disconnect your battery in future before messing with anything electrical.

[Paul1985]

replaced the fuse, put the new switch in and the car fired up.
the starter motor was making awful sounds when cranking, but it started, also still has a rough idle.

drove to work today and then at lunch time the car wouldnt start... battery is fine and i even checked the voltage at the starter motor and it has battery voltage. hmmmm..i reckon the starter motor is the issue. I think its not electrical, but the mechanical side. im going to call a few wreckers in the morning. hopefully this will be the last of the problems.

thanks everyone who helped so far,
appreciate it.

[vtegra]

man ive had this problem... the car will start.. u drive it... then bang!! it stops..
first place i looked was the distributor..
check that out, you might need a new 1. but replace the whole distributor bc by the time u find out wat part in it has gone.. and first of all catch the problem when its down..

[garett]

just seems odd that if its the starter that it starts ... sounds more like an alternator problem but if the battery has charge then i guess its not that.

beats me :(

[Paul1985]

just seems odd that if its the starter that it starts ... sounds more like an alternator problem but if the battery has charge then i guess its not that.

beats me :(

The car doesnt start now... It started, but it struggled to start and when cranking the starter motor made the worst grinding noise.. a day later and the car wont start, i can hear the starter motor try click over but it dies. I checked and it has battery voltage.. The battery also has full charge, even tryed starting it with a jump pack.

If its not the starter then im gonna replace the distributer.
I have a strong feeling it will be the starter motor though.

I picked up a starter motor from hondworld on sat for $50, they tested it and it spun so we will see how it goes. hoping to get to swap it over after work tonight as my cars sitting broken down in a pub carpark haha.. at least i can go have a few drinks while proceeding to fix my car :P

Usually break down in the worst of places.

I think what has happened is the ignition switch died.. then i killed the starter motor by excessively cranking the car trying to work out what the issue was.. Hopefully this will fix it for good...

One other thing that has happened is my stereo has died.. someone said on H-T it must be wired in wrong.. Just doesnt end!

[KLA80T]

ok... this happened to me recently aswel.... your relay is sending funny signals to your distributor which causes it to malfuntions most of the time it targets your ignition when you start... the more you crank it the worst state your starter will get.. trust me! i had to replace my starter becouse of that and after a few weeks the engine died while i was driving so, i replaced the distributor with a new one then after another few days it stops again! this time it broke the new distributor so my mechanic sent it back to the manufaturer for the warranty and kindly replaced it but they suggested that the problem didn't came from the distributor but from the relay which they told my mechanic to take off and re solder agiain! so far... the car is working good! i think you got the same problem as me so to some other DA9 owners here... that relay is the nastiest thing in our car! cost me to replace my starter motor and a new distributor! hope this helps!!!! i'm talking about that brown square circuit tingy under your steering wheel.... get the relay re soldered again before you do anything else... you probably dont need to buy the other parts such as the starter motor and the distributor. hope it helps!

[Paul1985]

ok... this happened to me recently aswel.... your relay is sending funny signals to your distributor which causes it to malfuntions most of the time it targets your ignition when you start... the more you crank it the worst state your starter will get.. trust me! i had to replace my starter becouse of that and after a few weeks the engine died while i was driving so, i replaced the distributor with a new one then after another few days it stops again! this time it broke the new distributor so my mechanic sent it back to the manufaturer for the warranty and kindly replaced it but they suggested that the problem didn't came from the distributor but from the relay which they told my mechanic to take off and re solder agiain! so far... the car is working good! i think you got the same problem as me so to some other DA9 owners here... that relay is the nastiest thing in our car! cost me to replace my starter motor and a new distributor! hope this helps!!!! i'm talking about that brown square circuit tingy under your steering wheel.... get the relay re soldered again before you do anything else... you probably dont need to buy the other parts such as the starter motor and the distributor. hope it helps!

I replaced the starter motor last night and it started up no worries.. havent had any issues with it yet *fingers crossed*

When i had the relay out, the soldered joints all looked to be pretty good. If i have issues ill remember these points. Thanks :)

Only problem at the moment is my stereo not working.. When i can be bothered ill pull it out and try work out what the problem is..

[KLA80T]

you may find my post stupid but i would say check the fuse if its ok first. I always forget this simple thing everytime something doesnt work all of a sudden! hehehe i normally take everything off then realize that its just a simple busted fuse! hehehe anyway hope your car works good now!

[Paul1985]

you may find my post stupid but i would say check the fuse if its ok first. I always forget this simple thing everytime something doesnt work all of a sudden! hehehe i normally take everything off then realize that its just a simple busted fuse! hehehe anyway hope your car works good now!

Checked the fuses and they are fine. Theres sometimes one built onto the HU itself i think, there wasnt one that was visible on the HU..

I pressed the eject CD button and the CD popped out and the display came on whilst it ejected, cant put the CD back in or turn the HU on though... strange..

Ill re-check all the wiring.