Needing Advice - Dc2r Power Gains ??

[DUB32]

hey guys / girls -

I have a DC2 type R and have installed custom headers , JUN BL muffler and a BMC cold air induction kit - with these minor mods I achieved 109kw at the front wheels .. I then installed a power FC and my car reached 118kw at the front wheels .. Im a little dissapointed with the result's and am hoping to gain atleast another 15-20 kw's at the front wheels - anyone have any advice on were i can go from here without blowing a hole in my pocket to gain the best result's in regards to engine performance.. Thanks

[arron]

As you probably just found out, power gains are pretty limited from I/H/E.. The next step probably involves some head work.. An extra 15-20kw will be a fair achievement as a dc2r with some major engine mods will produce only around 145kw..

here (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12532) is a guide to what could be next for your car's mods... I know its for the dc5r but it's a fairly universal guide to modifying a type r...

[DUB32]

i'd be happy to reach 130 kw 's at the front wheels ... what would be the best idea from here ?? cams ? intake manifold ? injectors ? fuel pump ? fuel pressure regulator ?

[jdmTYPE R]

cai cams and reg will help depending on wat cam u get injector will be needed also headers do play a roll in it to....

[hui]

a fuel pressure reg should gain you a few xtra kw atw. are your injectors set to 100% duty on the power fc?

[yourfather]

hui, can you please explain the 100% Duty Cycle.

I dont think you understand the concept of Duty Cycle.

You should not be running an injector above 80% duty cycle, most of them max out at 80%.

The only time you should be running an injector at 100% is to determine how much fuel you can actually flow through an injector over a certain time so you can get its CCs!

What you just told him, is rather than having fuel injectors open and close depending on when the motor is doing its air pump action, you want it to stay open all of the time.

so lets say that you have an injector, and its open for 10 seconds...

100% Duty Cycle = Open for 10
50% Duty Cycle = Open for 5 out of 10.

ETC ETC.

Injectors are not fuel injectors if they are static. You may as well just hook a fuel line directly into the cylinder. Because you have no real way of controlling fuel delivery.

PLUS, just jamming a fuel pressure regulator on there and not tuning won't do anything special. His tuner would have told him!

Im not an expert in any way, but my understanding of mechanics is, you can't just shove more fuel into a motor and expect it to make more power.

It has to do with a good mixture, timing and parts.

[DLO01]

i'd be happy to reach 130 kw 's at the front wheels ... what would be the best idea from here ?? cams ? intake manifold ? injectors ? fuel pump ? fuel pressure regulator ?

Next step from what you already have:

Cams and Throttle body.

[DUB32]

okay cool thanks guys - can someone point me in the direction of some good cams and an improved throttle body

[DLO01]

okay cool thanks guys - can someone point me in the direction of some good cams and an improved throttle body

Throttle body:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63286

Cams:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64468&highlight=cams

[CRXer]

hui, can you please explain the 100% Duty Cycle.

I dont think you understand the concept of Duty Cycle.

You should not be running an injector above 80% duty cycle, most of them max out at 80%.


Honda does actually run their injectors close to 100% duty at redline out of the factory.

[civic_mods]

^^ yeah, i seen tuned s15 n wrx running ard 100% all the time at WOT

[hui]

PLUS, just jamming a fuel pressure regulator on there and not tuning won't do anything special. His tuner would have told him!

It has to do with a good mixture, timing and parts.

a fuel pressure reg and a retune of the pfc will get you some more kw

im not an expert either, but my dc2R with I/H/E and pfc got me 117kw atw, with an addition of a fuel pressure regulator i got 122kw atw. not a huge increase.

i'm just here to share my exp and thoughts with a guy who has the same mods and car as me. yet other people are so quick to critisize!

[DUB32]

any suggestionsn what type of fuel pressure regulator I should be buyiing ??

[DLO01]

Sard, Aem. :thumbsup:

[DUB32]

got any links to them ?

[gix88]

http://hioctaneracing.com.au/eshop/index.php?cPath=38_110

[rugal]

gix88 ur d man.....thanks for the link

[shebangs]

To put your mods into perspective.

DECENT brands, get you decent results. On my DC2, Injen CAI, 5zigen Header and S200 and I put down 116 at the wheels.

[DUB32]

cleaned my BMC cold air intake and checked spark plug gaps and made
122kw atw..

[gix88]

well done.

thats alright isnt it?

cheers

[yourfather]

To put your mods into perspective.

DECENT brands, get you decent results. On my DC2, Injen CAI, 5zigen Header and S200 and I put down 116 at the wheels.

the best thing about your car though is its stock on the outside :)

[jansenrw]

ohh dear another one... My wallet is still recovering from my last power chasing...

In your scenario

BEST ADVICE---- decide what kw's you want to achieve first. I believe Adrian Norton from TODA has a useful link on this site as to what mods = kw.

Check that out. Maybe under vendor section


2) if you want it simplified, chase cams, higher comp, larger injectors, plenium.

Also source references from honda-tech.com.


Very useful site!!!

[Mr_Dc2aRgh]

To put your mods into perspective.

DECENT brands, get you decent results. On my DC2, Injen CAI, 5zigen Header and S200 and I put down 116 at the wheels.

no catback exhaust?

[shebangs]

no catback exhaust?

Catback is fairly useless for power, as much as the ricers on here seem to convince themselves otherwise. Any decent cat back will do, check sig for mine. But 2.25" custom cat back into straight through style muffler will do. (2.5" if you doing cams/internals etc).

[G_Vtec]

Catback is fairly useless for power, as much as the ricers on here seem to convince themselves otherwise. Any decent cat back will do, check sig for mine. But 2.25" custom cat back into straight through style muffler will do. (2.5" if you doing cams/internals etc).

Agreed.

i only changed the headers and cat and modified some areas of the stock piping + high flow muffler and it certainly made a world of a difference. Entire setup cost me less than a grand as well :)

[ginganggooly]

To put your mods into perspective.

DECENT brands, get you decent results. On my DC2, Injen CAI, 5zigen Header and S200 and I put down 116 at the wheels.

i'm going to be pedantic; you don't need decent brands so much as you need decent designs :thumbsup:

My vti-r put in a reasonable effort with jdm 4-1 header, $400 2.5" catback, home made icebox, skunk2 im and s200. 14.3@96mph (114kw from memory)

FWIW:
Cat backs are not useless for power, tested my car with 2.5" and 2.25" (both straight through) cat backs a few years ago. Untuned, there were solid 2-5kw gains from about 5k rpm upwards (2.5" system).

[ginganggooly]

In your scenario

BEST ADVICE---- decide what kw's you want to achieve first. I believe Adrian Norton from TODA has a useful link on this site as to what mods = kw.



Could you explain how anyone is meant to chase power figures when every dyno seems to read differently?

135kw on one dyno might be 115kw on another dyno. I've seen that plenty of times...

The OP should really decide on what 1/4 mile or other real world performance benchmark you want to beat, do a little research into what setups cars hitting those times have and take things from there.
1/4 mile times don't represent the same wank as dyno readouts.

[Benson]

So tru ^^. IMO I wouldnt touch the internels of a Type R engine. They are a very good benchmark engine from stock. All you need to get is the right bolt-ons and a good tuner and your type R should be a rocket..

Here is a good indication of waht your car should be achieving.

Stock Engine with Custom Headers, 65mm T/B, Long Ram Intake and 60mm exhaust system we yeilded 121 kw and 127kw on another Type R motor with the same mods.

Both cars were taken down the track and both did a 13.6@100-101 MPH.

So from the power output you have there you should be doing easily high 13's, if not then there is something wrong with the power output and that is one happy dyno.

[shebangs]

i'm going to be pedantic; you don't need decent brands so much as you need decent designs :thumbsup:

My vti-r put in a reasonable effort with jdm 4-1 header, $400 2.5" catback, home made icebox, skunk2 im and s200. 14.3@96mph (114kw from memory)

FWIW:
Cat backs are not useless for power, tested my car with 2.5" and 2.25" (both straight through) cat backs a few years ago. Untuned, there were solid 2-5kw gains from about 5k rpm upwards (2.5" system).

I agree with you, my point was more-so targeted at people who take there stock engine and do catback for 'power'. That 2-5kw you're talking about (lets be honest, it's closer to 2 than 5) is more prevalent in our setups than stock.

[ginganggooly]

I agree with you, my point was more-so targeted at people who take there stock engine and do catback for 'power'. That 2-5kw you're talking about (lets be honest, it's closer to 2 than 5) is more prevalent in our setups than stock.

Yes, the average was closer to 2 than 5 ;)

There was a point where the graph was reading 5kw more though- it was up around 7k rpm...

[TODA AU]

I have a DC2 type R and have installed custom headers , JUN BL muffler and a BMC cold air induction kit - with these minor mods I achieved 109kw at the front wheels .. I then installed a power FC and my car reached 118kw at the front wheels .. Im a little dissapointed with the result's and am hoping to gain at least another 15-20 kw's at the front wheels - anyone have any advice on were i can go from here without blowing a hole in my pocket to gain the best result's in regards to engine performance.. Thanks

I’d advise, before you spend more money chasing extra power,
Determine a budget you don't want to exceed & then try to stick to it.
Also decide what your end goal is & what you want this extra power for.
Be that circuit, drag or just better performance on the street.
By all means, shop around & get firm quotes.
(& Be wary of potential budget blowouts)

As for what & how to do it, you're really opening a can of worms here.
You’ll get a very wide range of opinion online, some good, some not so good.
What will be apparent is that there are many ways to arrive at the same goal.
The one thing that each method that works has in common with an alternative method is combination.
That is, a combination of parts that works well together.

Once you’ve achieved the output you’re after,
To get best results, you should look at maximising the use of that power.
This can take on a variety of forms, from lightweight flywheel clutch combos,
To lower final drives & complete gear kits.
Best results are found using all three & in any case, an LSD is a must.
Here is where you’ll get more out of drag or circuit racing for a given power output than anywhere else.
Strangely, this is something some of the drag racing fanatics on here won’t admit to using.

Example: We tuned a B16A powered EG Civic to run 13.6sec @ 99mph (WSID)
Parts used were as follows:
CTR cams & springs, TODA cams pulleys, Mugen Intake,
X-Force 4-1 header & BuddyClub Spec 2 exhaust (Ears bleeding)
Power output was 110kw at the wheels.
Nothing spectacular, but the ET & MPH were good.
The real speed of this car came from the ITR gearbox with a 4.9 final drive.
This together with a good flywheel & clutch delivered fairly acceptable results.
No smoke & mirrors, just common sense.

As for the output you have now,
118kw isn’t too bad for I/H/E + ECU on a DC2. It’s about average.
The best we’ve seen with I/H/E & ECU for a DC2R is 128kw.
This was a particularly strong DC2 & defiantly above average in output.
Parts used were - Mugen intake, TODA header, High flow cat, Fujitsubo Power Getter, Apexi Power FC & everything else as from the factory.
In your case, adjustable cam pulleys would likely help, so too would a high flow metal catalyst.
But before you do just go & buy parts, do the rounds & go & see a few shops that actually do this sort of thing
& get some advice directly relating to your car.
Cheers

Adrian