My Euro at Eastern Creek (Pics+Video)

[evolution42]

Hi everyone

It's been a while since i've posted here, but I thought some of you may be interested in a video of the euro at one of the Eastern Creek Track Days i went to (21/5/07).

I just wedged a video camera in between the passengers seat and headrest to record the last session for the day. The laps weren't timed, and I'm just a beginner (3rd time @ E.C), so the car and my driving obviously have a lot more potential.

I'm driving a 2004 Euro Luxury 6MT fully stock, with the VSA switched on. I might turn it off next time during the infield sections of the track, but I don't think i'll turn it off for the first corner, which you're doing 155km/h+ around. The tyres are the stock 16" Dunlop 2050M's with about 10,000kms on them.

The brakes had faded badly, most likely due to the fact that the pads/fluid haven't been replaced yet and the car's done nearly 50,000kms (they will be replaced very soon).

Anyway here is the video: http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=5455984772546492675 (sorry in advance for the boring/repetitive commentary), and the pics are below (sample pics courtesy of JPM) :)
http://www.jpmphoto.com.au/Galleries/ardc_drivedays/21_05_07/images/210507JPM_035.jpg
http://www.jpmphoto.com.au/Galleries/ardc_drivedays/21_05_07/images/210507JPM_019.jpg
http://www.jpmphoto.com.au/Galleries/ardc_drivedays/21_05_07/images/210507JPM_036.jpg
http://www.jpmphoto.com.au/Galleries/ardc_drivedays/21_05_07/images/210507JPM_269.jpg

[sodaz]

Good stuff. Thanks for posting. Always good to see Euros on a track. :)

[ALN]

Good sharing. :thumbsup:
I went to track before with stock sus and brake, I experience constant faded braking after 2 laps and I just serviced my car 5 month before. I would say euro stock brake can't take aggresive driving.

[Joel The Mole]

nice work, good to see not all euros are driven by old peeps.

probably would upgrade brake fluid to somethign designed for hi spec street drivign and maybe some new pads before going to the track again.

good luck

[raz05]

thx for sharing the video

[evolution42]

I remember the brakes being very responsive with plenty of bite before i did any track driving (the first time on the track was with 40,000kms on the clock, and brakes became fairly spongy after that). If I get new brake pads/fluid, and take it to the track soon afterwards, do you guys think I will lose the responsiveness/bite of the brakes like I did when I tracked for the first time at 40,000kms?

[euro77]

I remember the brakes being very responsive with plenty of bite before i did any track driving (the first time on the track was with 40,000kms on the clock, and brakes became fairly spongy after that). If I get new brake pads/fluid, and take it to the track soon afterwards, do you guys think I will lose the responsiveness/bite of the brakes like I did when I tracked for the first time at 40,000kms?

depends on what brake pads and brake fluids you are replacing it with. I would recommend motul brake fluid (dot 5.1) or RBF600 (dot 4 but higher boiling temp) and good brake pads with 0 to high temp (e.g., endless type SSS or above, project mu type B-spec or above).

I replaced mine with dot5.1 and ebc green (some people won't recommend ebc green but I myself can't (or probably haven't) find anything wrong with it), and there's no sponginess when I tracked the car.

[evolution42]

Thanks for the info euro77- much appreciated. I have some further questions for you (or anyone else). I do about 98% city driving, taking the euro to the track only around 3 times a year (maybe 5 at the very most).

I intend to keep the stock brake pads, but am interested in changing the stock brake fluid. The manual for the euro says to use DOT4 fluid, and DOT5 isn't compatible with the system, so at the next service when I get them to flush the whole system, I have 3 options:
-Honda Stock DOT4 Fluid
-Motul DOT4 Fluid
-Motul RBF600 DOT4 Fluid

Considering the driving I do, would there be much difference between the stock fluid and Motul DOT4?

Also, the RBF600 would obviously be a better option on the track, but are there any negatives using it for city driving e.g. brake feel/low-temp performance/longevity/ok to use with ABS and VSA systems?

Thanks in advance for any comments!

[euro77]

the motul that I suggested is dot 5.1, not dot 5. Dot 5 is incompatible with euro, but dot 5.1 is compatible. I don't really know what the honda stock dot 4 spec is, hence I'm not sure if motul dot 4 is better (I would incline to think so). But I am sure dot 5.1 and rbf600 is more superior to honda oem. They are all compatible with ABS and VSA.

low-temp performance is determined by your brake pads, not brake fluid. better brake fluid helps remove the sponginess when driven hard (or on track) because the fluid can take much more heat before it gave up. it will not affect the low temp performance/longetivity. Hence, you can use RBF600 for everyday driving.

because your car will mostly be city driving, get brake pads which operating temp starts at 0 (i.e., it bites at cold temp). The pads I suggested above all started at 0 (and end up at 500 I think). If you don't mind changing brake pads for track day, you can use stock pads or bendix ultimate (yfin used this from memory) for low cost option, and change it with endless/project mu/others when you want to track the car. Be aware though that all brake pads need to be runned in, so don't go changing your brake pads with a new ones then bring the car to the track on the same day or shortly after. You'll have no braking powers, and probably would wreck your rotor and the pads as well :D

Another thing you can do is to replace your brake lines with steel reinforced ones, but this is overkill LOL. I highly doubt it will make much difference, not on euro.
The theory behind this is the reinforced brake lines will not expand as much as the stock brake lines under pressure.

[euro77]

oh, btw, just to comment on the video camera positioning, the best is to face straight forward and towards the track, not the horizon (i.e. need to position it higher in the car). This will help you to learn the racing line and improve your time! :D Nevertheless, I enjoyed it ;)

[evolution42]

oh, btw, just to comment on the video camera positioning, the best is to face straight forward and towards the track, not the horizon (i.e. need to position it higher in the car). This will help you to learn the racing line and improve your time! :D Nevertheless, I enjoyed it ;)
Haha yeh I know the camera positioning wasn't great. A friend suggested to jam it in the headrest about a min before my session started so by the time i'd positioned it, everyone else was out on the track already and I just wanted get out there and make the most of the last session. Tried to get a bit of the speedo/tacho in the frame, as well as the road, but the seat of the Euro isn't high enough to get a clear view of the road so thats why most of it is the horizon:P.

But i've since figured out a "digital wide-mode" on my camera, so next time I should be able to point the camera straight and still get the speedo/tacho, but I guess that won't really solve the problem that the camera is sitting too low:p

Oh regarding the brake fluids, now tossing up between RBF600 and Motul DOT5.1. Which do you reckon would be better for my type of driving? Any idea on prices and how much of it I'd need? Oh, and any opinions on Castrol Response Super DOT4?

Cheers

[euro77]

How hard do you drive on track? Looking at your video (but I admit, video is usually deceiving, video always shows car slower than actual), I would say DOT5.1 is enough. But, having said that, if you can afford RBF600, then go for it. It's not something you often change anyway (unlike engine oil).

I can only judge Castrol Response Super DOT4 based on the dry/wet boiling temp (which is 286/184) - as I have no personal experience with it. Compared to Motul RBF600 (312/216), then RBF600 is better. Motul DOT5.1 has temp 270/185, which is not much higher than castrol, so I'd say the 2 is similar.

I guess it all comes down on how much you want to spend :D

[aaronng]

The other brake fluids usually swell up the rubber seals that Honda uses in their brake system. So if you want to use Motul DOT4 or RBF600, then use it only during the track day. Swap it back to Honda brake fluid after that.

Oh, and the reason why the stock fluid is DOT4 instead of DOT5.1 is because DOT5.1 absorbs moisture from air much quicker than DOT4, so it doesn't last as long.

[euro77]

is that so? would probably be a good idea to change the rubber seals then (if available). Is this because of the higher temp that the fluid can take, but the rubber seals can't? because the chemical property of the fluid is similar (polyglycol), so it wouldn't have been caused because of the chemical reaction.

[aaronng]

is that so? would probably be a good idea to change the rubber seals then (if available). Is this because of the higher temp that the fluid can take, but the rubber seals can't? because the chemical property of the fluid is similar (polyglycol), so it wouldn't have been caused because of the chemical reaction.

The rubber seals are inside the brake system. You can't just take them out to replace. RBF600 uses a different chain length or molecular weight glycol, which is probably less compatible with the seals in the Honda brake system. Even the new brake fluid caps tell you to use only Honda DOT4. The caps on the older Hondas just said to use any DOT3 or DOT4 fluid.

In the Euro's service manual it says:

Brake fluid - DOT 3 or DOT 4. We recommend genuine Honda Brake Fluid. Using a non-Honda brake fluid can cause corrosion and decrease the life of the system.

For the clutch system, they say to use any DOT3 or DOT4 fluid.

Just like Honda coolant, the materials used inside the engine require the use of non-silicate coolant (like Honda's).

Always use genuine Honda All Season Antifreeze/Coolant Type 2 (P/N OL999-9001). Using a non-Honda coolant can result in corrosion, causing the cooling system to malfunction or fail.