B Series Ignitor/Ignition Module

[dsp26]

Hi All,

Was just wondering if anyone could confirm if any of the Honda parts in the Bosch catalogue below (Page 9)will fit a B16A2 distributor:
http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/2256.htm

Reason i'm asking first is coz i can already guess how much genuine Honda unit will cost.

As for the genuine Honda ignitor... does anyone know if they have replaced the factory OKI chip with the revised NEC chip here in Australia yet?


Reason i need a new one is coz i semi-fried mine on my initial installation of an external coil... i initially drille d ahole at the front of the leak cover to run the wires through and sparks from the rotor would leak into there and hit the ignitor.

I'm confident it's the ignitor as i've done a check for plug heat range misfire by turning my fuel pressure up and down.... electrode tips change to white/black accordingly and running rich still causes random misfires at high rpm.

[JasonGilholme]

OEM ftw :p

Sorry i can't help. Hope it all works out for ya champ.

[dsp26]

^^^noooooooooo... i know it'll cost like $300. Not willing to pay it even if it's the revised NEC model.

too bad i can't check ebay for this shit at work....

[yourfather]

prolly not cuz they dont have any parts for a B series motor apart from the ancient B20 from the prelude

[destrukshn]

hye man, i got a brand new ignitor, if you want it.
i used it for like1 week, until i got a new dizzy.
i bought it like 2months ago? i still have hte reciept as well. lol.
i bought it for $120ish, i'll let go of it for $90
lol

[dsp26]

hye man, i got a brand new ignitor, if you want it.
i used it for like1 week, until i got a new dizzy.
i bought it like 2months ago? i still have hte reciept as well. lol.
i bought it for $120ish, i'll let go of it for $90
lol

sweet...

is it an NEC or OKI?

you by any chance have a spare leak cover too? that black plastic bit under the rotor but covers the entire internals of the dizzy?

[destrukshn]

nec.
pretty sure it is.
lol.
i can't remember to tell you the truth, all i remember, it was the one i took out of the originaly dizzy, so it's oem.
nah i don't have that, my old dizzy never had one.
lol.

[dsp26]

nec.
pretty sure it is.
lol.
i can't remember to tell you the truth, all i remember, it was the one i took out of the originaly dizzy, so it's oem.
nah i don't have that, my old dizzy never had one.
lol.

lol u sure u dnt have the black cover... ur dizzy would have died like mine...

it's this cover (the plastic housing that cvoers pretty much the inside of the dizzy (borrowed from ecu-mans MSD DIY thread):
http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD013.jpg


without it it looks like this:
http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD010.jpg


well one final question then... is the Ignitor Black (OKI) or Brown (NEC)?

I'd just prefer to get the new unit and get it done right the first time... apparently it was a recall item for the CRX and since i'm running an external coil setup, don't want it dying again....

[destrukshn]

i'm 100% sure it don't have a cover.
lol.
mine didn't die, it was just a noisy bearing.
lol, so i replaced the whole dizzy, with a brand new one.

so my dizzy is still in full working order, but just noisy.
lol.
right now, i can't tell you what colour it is, because the dizzy assy is at my mates house, and the ignitor is still in there. so as soon as i find out i'll tell you.
PM me with your number, and when i find out, which should be tonight, i'll give ya a call.
hell you can even buy the whole dizzy assembly off me if you want. lol.

[dsp26]

Sweet thanks mate.... i'll PM you my number.


But to Clarify for everyone else after doing my own research calling a few places (i'm not going to quote exact pricing from sources either):

Part Numbers#
Original OKI (Black) : 30120PT3003 - ~$300+

Replaced by:
Revised OKI (Black) : 06302PT3A00 - ~$100+
or
Supercede NEC Model (Brown) : 06302PT3000 - ~$100+

Reasons for replacement:
- Low heat resistance and affects operation
- Prone to semi-damage from Heat or Coil upgrade. Does not completely die like normal ICM cases but causes random High RPM misfires
- ^^^ Gives wrong/erratic tach signal. Another member (cristian) video'ed my tach going all the way around past 9krpm back to the oil light (which is about 7 o'clock) LOL.

Reasons From Bosch as to why ignition modules should be replaced:
- Insufficient current / dwell leads to low ignition coil output resulting in difficult starting, breaking down under load and misfiring at high rpm
- Excessive current dwell leads to overheating of ignition coil and ignition module, causing premature module failure and possible damage to other vehicle components
- Excessive primary induced voltage leads to possible damage to coil and modules as well as other components connected to coil negative such as tachometers, RPM triggered relays, security systems and LPG safety switches and closed loop controllers


Search Keywords: ICM, Ignition Control Module, Ignitor, Igniter, high rpm misfire, no start, no spark, stall, stalling, engine cut out, tacho signal, rpm, over revving

[JasonGilholme]

Do you know if this revision was implemented into the production line?? ie did they come from factory with the new units? if so when??

Sorry to hijack but that info might be good for the post above :thumbsup: +rep

[dsp26]

^^^maybe thats somethin destrukshn can shed some light on since he works at Honda....

based on my conversations with a few Honda Spare parts divisions...

- The Revised OKI part is marked as the replacement part in the system
- If you order a replacement part, you will get the Brown NEC model as it is the superceding part. it is the exact same price os the Revised OKI part.


- Therefore, process of elimination tells me that the Revised OKI part is what comes out of the factory line and the NEC is the superceding replacement part if you purchase seperately.
- Having previously worked at OKI myself, i know they don't release revised parts for general sale anyway...

^^^BUT... this is all my logical thought process... may not be any truth to it whatsoever... just makes sense...

[destrukshn]

see sometimes, honda just likes to supersede part numbers. for no f*cking apparent reasons. lol.
but yeah, usually, it depends on when the superceded parts were released.
like..
if it was found out in 92 that was the problem, then yes, they would usually put the superseded parts in the 1993 car and on wards.
but if it was changed in lets say, 98, then no, your car won't have it.
also, a reason why they supersede part numbers, is because it may be the same part as another, so they just supersede it to the part number of the other car,.

[JasonGilholme]

So which ones the better one?? Brown or black???

Is it easy to take the dizzy cover off and check without screwin anything up lol

[destrukshn]

the last superceded one, which is brown, is what dsp26 is saying.
just take off the cap, and you should see it straight away.

[dsp26]

So which ones the better one?? Brown or black???

Is it easy to take the dizzy cover off and check without screwin anything up lol

make sure you have those thin extendable magnet things to pickup fallen screws etc...

coz you have to take the rotor off and its awkward to get at the srew that holds it...

also to take th rotor off, the actual tip has to be facing away from the firewall as the screw is only accessible from the back...

which means when your car is off and it's not in the correct position, you have to crank the car over....

BUT... unplug both plugs coming off the dizzy so it doesn't start your car... i'm pretty confident it's sufficient to just unplug the 2-wire one though as it is the power for the coil... but better to be safe than sorry...

[JasonGilholme]

ok cool.

I don't think i'll worry about it lol

The car starts fine and has never skipped a beat. Its a 96 model so if there was a revision i'm pretty confident it'd have the newer part. :thumbsup:

[ginganggooly]

For some reason my car has an unhealthy appetite for ICM's (two goneski in 7 years).

Each time they went I had my tacho needle jumping all over the place before the car started to misfire. Is your tacho bouncing around?

[JasonGilholme]

mine????

Nah my car is runnin perfect but i'm sorta pendantic about keepin new parts on it lol.

[dsp26]

For some reason my car has an unhealthy appetite for ICM's (two goneski in 7 years).

Each time they went I had my tacho needle jumping all over the place before the car started to misfire. Is your tacho bouncing around?

mine is when i floor it... as soon as high cam switches in at 5,400rpm.. bounces like crazy...

but when car is still semi-cold and vtec solenoid is still disabled... i can rev to redline and it doesn't bounce around... which is why i'm not 100% sure if my prob is the ignitor... maybe you can confirm the off-vtec/cold rev for me....

[JasonGilholme]

Just unplug the vtec solonoid and let the car warm up fully before revving it.

[destrukshn]

mine is when i floor it... as soon as high cam switches in at 5,400rpm.. bounces like crazy...

but when car is still semi-cold and vtec solenoid is still disabled... i can rev to redline and it doesn't bounce around... which is why i'm not 100% sure if my prob is the ignitor... maybe you can confirm the off-vtec/cold rev for me....
yes i reckon it's your ignitor,
that's the reason why i changed mine.
same thing.
hahahaha

first time i drove it, i thought, there is no ****ing way it revs that fast.
hahahaha, and not actually go anywhere.
lol.

[dsp26]

Just unplug the vtec solonoid and let the car warm up fully before revving it.

good point.... forgot i can make vtak fall off myself.... :p





yes i reckon it's your ignitor,
that's the reason why i changed mine.
same thing.
hahahaha

first time i drove it, i thought, there is no ****ing way it revs that fast.
hahahaha, and not actually go anywhere.
lol.

do you feel that it takes a great amount of power away from topend/high cam?.. coz honestly even though i have this shitty misfire i'm pretty cut that the car still feels slow despite the mods already on it..... heck i 'lost' to a Syney Water Hilux in a 'traffic light war' even if by only half a car length before the merge.. you know those rude bastards that go in the overtake lane when they know it merges pretty soon after the lights....

If this engine doesn't perform with the addition of cai and misfire fix it's getting traded in for a bzr levin or gt mr2.... :( i no longer see a point spending money on cams/tune/b18 block/light fly+clutch if its still a nugget


***EDIT***
I've been in a quite a large range of cars with dyno figures so can guestimate mine roughly for now and i know i still ain't pulling 90wkw... and i have:
- External Coil + 1.3mm plug gap
- afpr adjusted to ~34psi to lean out a bit
- SS JDM type-r header copy w/ 2.5in collector + heat wrapped.
- 2.5in Hi flow metal cat + heat wrap
- 2.5in mandrel catback
- Pod (will add cai soon)...

[JasonGilholme]

good point.... forgot i can make vtak fall off myself.... :p

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :cool: :cool: lol

[dsp26]

mmk i'm gonna confirm it now..

just had destrukshn swap over his for mine... and misfire/gay tacho signal issue is gooooone!!! feels sooo much better!!

I'll see if cristian is willing to post a video of the symptom though...

on a side note.. i'll add that the external coil setup MAY have been the cause for the malfunctioning ICM... I remember when I did the external coil setup on my sr20 my ICM died 3months later on cruise and stalled the car.

[destrukshn]

MAY have been the cause, but i some what doubt it, it is quite a common problem.

[dsp26]

mmk heres the vid taken by member cristian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYs67zlcKCo

[destrukshn]

**** that's funny
lol

[dsp26]

Just want to add info to this thread for archiving purposes.

In addition to Post#10, Hitachi part#s are:
HITACHI E12-302, E12-303

[nd55]

:Flame suit on:

> - External Coil + 1.3mm plug gap

Is it just me or does that gap seem a touch big? 1.0 - 1.1?

Nick.

[dsp26]

It works.. i've had it run upto 1.7mm no probs with the bigger coil.

As for actual power gains, yet to be proven.

I did notice my dizzy contacts corroded/rusted VERY quickly

On an interesting note, the stock Honda coil was able to do 1.3mm no probs where-as the cylinder MSD SS blaster couldn't. 1.5mm and it was misfiring on higher gear load.

[dsp26]

OK... gonna add to this post again...

the Hitachi E12-302 and E12-303 are for NON-VTEC B series engines... looks like this:
http://i21.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/f8/f1/f6ed_1.JPG


The proper Vtec ones for B series are longer vertically and should look like this:
http://i3.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/f8/f1/f619_1.JPG


either will fit the B series dizzy as i have tried both now.. but you have to use the mounting plate that came on your dizzy.

[dsp26]

the one that just shat itself in my car after cranking the car with no leads plugged in was the Hitachi 302 unit... CRXer/Jason.. i hope this info helps you mate.. and others...:thumbsup:

ignition issues shit me :/

i now get my replacements from this store as they are significantly cheaper than buying from the stealership... who cares if its aftermarket, it works.. and hopefully a lot longer than the 1yr the OEM Hitachi one lasted me....


http://myworld.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ignition_dk/

i just received my vtec one for AU$68 express delivered (95c exchange rate :p lol).. and just ordered a non-vtec one for the mrs for AU$65 delivered (89c exchange rate)....

[CRXer]

thats the hitachi one that im running now,ure right, had to swap the mounting base off the old NEC one.

my NEC was the one that shat itself.

either will be fine VTEC or nonVTEC,they both do the same job,its obviously just that mount issue.

my hitachi has been thru one trackday now & also my best quarter times,lol,lets hope it endures the longevity test now.............

[dsp26]

OK just wan't to add to this thread a new discovery and warning

Signs of a dying ICM:
car starts misfiring randomly on idle and cruise and consistently after 5000rpm. redlining the car, the tacho will look like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYs67zlcKCo

Consequence:
Because it is electronically misfiring, any charge built up in the coil that doesn't discharge when it's supposed to WILL kill the ignition coil. This to me on 2 coils on the weekend.

Which means if your trying to rotate the rotor to get in a position to be removed by cranking the engine, UNPLUG the 2 plugs to the dizzy so no power/charge goes to the coil.

Nothing worse than killing dizzy parts while trying to service it with new rotor/caps/etc

[Limbo]

shit Ron u had me going, i didn't realise how old this thread was! i was getting excited at the exchange rates! lol

btw.. Great info

[koldfire]

dsp26,

I found a supposedly European ITR manual. At page 5, it shows with hitachi E12-303 (honda part number 30310-P73-A01). Link below:-

http://www.redliners.ru/temp_foto/oem_integra/ITR_European_EPC.pdf

Also, the same unit found in my ITR yr 2000 motor.

I am going to call honda on monday to reconfirm this.



OK... gonna add to this post again...

the Hitachi E12-302 and E12-303 are for NON-VTEC B series engines... looks like this:
http://i21.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/f8/f1/f6ed_1.JPG


The proper Vtec ones for B series are longer vertically and should look like this:
http://i3.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/f8/f1/f619_1.JPG


either will fit the B series dizzy as i have tried both now.. but you have to use the mounting plate that came on your dizzy.

[Limbo]

the dohc seem to be the same

[Bludger]

OK just wan't to add to this thread a new discovery and warning

Signs of a dying ICM:
car starts misfiring randomly on idle and cruise and consistently after 5000rpm. redlining the car, the tacho will look like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYs67zlcKCo

Consequence:
Because it is electronically misfiring, any charge built up in the coil that doesn't discharge when it's supposed to WILL kill the ignition coil. This to me on 2 coils on the weekend.

Which means if your trying to rotate the rotor to get in a position to be removed by cranking the engine, UNPLUG the 2 plugs to the dizzy so no power/charge goes to the coil.

Nothing worse than killing dizzy parts while trying to service it with new rotor/caps/etcthis is exactly whats happening to my car atm.

narrowed it down, cos i got newish leads and just changed the plugs, still happening.

random misfires at all rpm's including idle.

Question. whats the difference between a coil and an ICM, or is it one and the same?

[dsp26]

Sorry mate cant see hiw old this thread is coz im on the phone.

Coil is the actual unit that builds and discharges the spark to the dizzy. ICM is the ignition control module which is actually the driver of the coil from ecu.

If its happening at all rpm ranges randomly its the ICM at fault. Its after about 10yrs and usually happens when hot or in summer

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

[Bludger]

LOL

nevermind, this was 25 years ago.

The problem never was ignition related.

The car is obd0 and the connection on the resistor box for the injectors was loose.

[dsp26]

Haha sorry i only just got back on OH a couple of weeks ago.

I missed you gaaaaiiiizzzz!!!

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