Euro Luxury vs Accura TSX

[Mike Star]

Hi all I've been looking at info on the US Accura TSX and comparing to our Euro Luxury The Euro is almost identical externally to the Accura TSX except for door handles, badging etc. I have found however when looking at the Accura website that internally the cars are different although similar. The dash design looks similar but I believe is different to the degree that parts would not be interchangeable. The seats are different in the way they are trimmed and the type of leather used. TSX has "pin pricked" leather inserts for the seat and backrest whereas the Euro has "ruched" leather. The USA also gets seat memory, Bluetooth, voice activated Sat Nav etc.
I was wondering if anyone knows why Honda/Accura built 2 cars so close to the same yet different enough that tooling for the internals would have needed to be specifically designed and set up. In these days of cost management where the auto industry is struggling for market share and profit, rationalisation of models seems to be the trend and here we have an approach that seesm to buck the system.
Would like to hear your own ideas on this. If you haven't already go to the Accura USA website to look at their Accura range and check out the differnces between the TSX and our Euro.

[Tobster]

Cars are still developed differently for different markets, to meet local regulations. Cars coming to Australia are often detuned (engine-wise) to cope with the high sulphur content in our fuel. Suspensions are often revised to cope with local roads.

The Australian made Camry has slightly different body panels to the US Camry -- to suit local tastes. I know that Honda/Acura has factories in the US: I don't know if the TSX is made in the US, but if it is then it may simply be a matter of who the local parts manufacturer is -- and it makes it easier to tool things to suit local tastes, or just a matter of a product that is more readily available locally (like perforated leather).

[aaronng]

TSX and the Euro are made in the same Saitama facoty factory in Japan. The reason for the difference is because it's an Acura. It's designed to rival the 325i. Here, the Euro was selected to rival the Mazda6 and Liberty 2.5i. That's why it's lower specced here.

[Mike Star]

TSX and the Euro are made in the same Saitama facoty factory in Japan. The reason for the difference is because it's an Acura. It's designed to rival the 325i. Here, the Euro was selected to rival the Mazda6 and Liberty 2.5i. That's why it's lower specced here.

That's a bit of a bummer isn't it? Still we got a great car anyway, just could have been a little better.

[aaronng]

That's a bit of a bummer isn't it? Still we got a great car anyway, just could have been a little better.

Based on regional pricing, we would be paying about $5000 less than a 325i for the Euro if Honda wanted to compete with that and upgrade the spec level to that of a luxury sports sedan. :) On the bright side, we pay $30,000 less than a 325i for an almost equal performing car (the Euro is faster than a E46 325i, but slower than an E90 325i).

[alexander_the]

There is only one answer to your question: economies of scales! We cannot even imagine the magnitude of the US Auto Market 40 Million new cars a year sold (or something). They sell a lot, so they can afford to introduce more options for the specific model and market

[Mike Star]

There is only one answer to your question: economies of scales! We cannot even imagine the magnitude of the US Auto Market 40 Million new cars a year sold (or something). They sell a lot, so they can afford to introduce more options for the specific model and market

In terms of the dash layout I believe the situation is quite the opposite. Economies of scale would guarantee that they only tooled up and manufactured the one dash design for both Euro and TSX. Economies of scale is why so many manufacturers are going for the centre instrument pod so that they utilise the same dash for both right and left hadn drive markets. How they spec and option the 2 cars up is related to size of market, regional pricing, where in the market and against what other vehicles they are intending to compete etc.

[aaronng]

In terms of the dash layout I believe the situation is quite the opposite. Economies of scale would guarantee that they only tooled up and manufactured the one dash design for both Euro and TSX. Economies of scale is why so many manufacturers are going for the centre instrument pod so that they utilise the same dash for both right and left hadn drive markets. How they spec and option the 2 cars up is related to size of market, regional pricing, where in the market and against what other vehicles they are intending to compete etc.

Actually, it's because of economies of scale that the TSX gets a unique dashboard. The US is so large that the cost of developing a new dashboard can be recovered. All the other markets are too small (and RHD), so we get what the production line has already been tooled for. That's why we get the same dash as the JDM Accord and not the TSX's.

[blk05gli]

Actually, it's because of economies of scale that the TSX gets a unique dashboard. The US is so large that the cost of developing a new dashboard can be recovered. All the other markets are too small (and RHD), so we get what the production line has already been tooled for. That's why we get the same dash as the JDM Accord and not the TSX's.

the inspire (our thai accord) gets a different JDM dash, whereas the thai accord gets the euro/JDM accord dash? (JDM gets an acura type dash)

pic (http://www.honda.co.jp/INSPIRE/SP/meet/interior/index.html)

[aaronng]

the inspire (our thai accord) gets a different JDM dash, whereas the thai accord gets the euro/JDM accord dash? (JDM gets an acura type dash)

pic (http://www.honda.co.jp/INSPIRE/SP/meet/interior/index.html)

Don't get confused, our Accord (made in Thailand) is NOT the same as the JDM Inspire. They are made in different factories, with different parts suppliers. They just look the same and are spec'ed similarly. If you pull them apart, you'll find the Inspire having different parts suppliers compared to the Accord. It's like beer. Heineken made in Australia has the same name and is based on the original brew from Holland. But do they taste the same? No. Because the suppliers for the raw ingredients are not the same even if they follow the same formula.

If our Accord was made in Japan, we'd get the TSX-style dash like the Inspire. But since we get the Thai Accord, we take whatever parts they are using as it makes no sense having a different instrument panel for Accords going to Australia as we buy too few to justify it.

[Mike Star]

Actually, it's because of economies of scale that the TSX gets a unique dashboard. The US is so large that the cost of developing a new dashboard can be recovered. All the other markets are too small (and RHD), so we get what the production line has already been tooled for. That's why we get the same dash as the JDM Accord and not the TSX's.

I can't agree with your logic or lack of it.

[TheFranchise]

Would like to hear your own ideas on this.



I can't agree with your logic or lack of it.


you were the one that asked for ideas, then we ideas are given you want to tell him his wrong....:confused:

[aaronng]

I can't agree with your logic or lack of it.

In plain english: The TSX was designed to be upmarket. That's why it got a different instrument panel. The costs associated with giving it a unique instrument panel is recovered through the large number of TSX sales in the US.

If Honda Australia wanted the unique instruments, the additional costs won't be recuperated through the small number of sales here. The only way is to sell the car at a higher price, which they didn't want to because it was meant to be sold in the mid-sized sedan segment and have competitive pricing with the Mazda6 and Liberty.

[blk05gli]

Don't get confused, our Accord (made in Thailand) is NOT the same as the JDM Inspire. They are made in different factories, with different parts suppliers. They just look the same and are spec'ed similarly. If you pull them apart, you'll find the Inspire having different parts suppliers compared to the Accord. It's like beer. Heineken made in Australia has the same name and is based on the original brew from Holland. But do they taste the same? No. Because the suppliers for the raw ingredients are not the same even if they follow the same formula.

If our Accord was made in Japan, we'd get the TSX-style dash like the Inspire. But since we get the Thai Accord, we take whatever parts they are using as it makes no sense having a different instrument panel for Accords going to Australia as we buy too few to justify it.

man, you REALLY know your honda's :thumbsup:

[Omotesando]

I can't agree with your logic or lack of it.

Lol when people don't understand the logic (when its so apparent) then they dismiss it as having none. If you dont have any counter arguments to support your 'theory' I believe you're only going to get a negative effect to what you originally intended...

Quite obviously Acura had to upspec their TSX design simply because the Acura is what Lexus is to Toyota.

If you're an American consumer, would you be happy if you bought an upmarket branded Acura ride with the same interior as a run of the mill Honda? Especially when everyone has already explained that their targeted competition is higher end cars such as BMWs and Lexus, etc.

The economy of scale due to the number of that car's model to be anticipatedly sold, is important in being self sufficient in supporting the variation of design. Especially when over in the States, tax is so much lower and the vehicle price is so much lower... Even if they upspecced everything, the consumer won't get doubly stung in the pocket. It actually makes a lot of sense considering so many people drive Porsches and Beamers (M3s hmmm) over there just because they're so affordable.

[Mike Star]

In plain english: The TSX was designed to be upmarket. That's why it got a different instrument panel. The costs associated with giving it a unique instrument panel is recovered through the large number of TSX sales in the US.

If Honda Australia wanted the unique instruments, the additional costs won't be recuperated through the small number of sales here. The only way is to sell the car at a higher price, which they didn't want to because it was meant to be sold in the mid-sized sedan segment and have competitive pricing with the Mazda6 and Liberty.

I don't think the instrument panel is more upmarket it's just different. . My simple point is that it is not the instrument panel that makes the car more upmarket or not it is how the car is finally specced up. I personally prefer the actual design of our instrument panel but then there would be others that would prefer the Accura layout. That is NOT a basis to pitch the car into a particular segment. It is what the equipment level is plus all the "fruit" items you add for one market vs the other. The actual "what tou get for your $$" is a real issue. One instrument panel design vs another is just a perception issue and osme will favour one and others will favour another. So to tool for one dash/instrument panel design is clearly more cost effective and then you just "spec" up the car and add the "fruit" to suit where you want to pitch it in the respective market places and how you ultimately want to price the product.

[Mike Star]

Lol when people don't understand the logic (when its so apparent) then they dismiss it as having none. If you dont have any counter arguments to support your 'theory' I believe you're only going to get a negative effect to what you originally intended...

Quite obviously Acura had to upspec their TSX design simply because the Acura is what Lexus is to Toyota.

If you're an American consumer, would you be happy if you bought an upmarket branded Acura ride with the same interior as a run of the mill Honda? Especially when everyone has already explained that their targeted competition is higher end cars such as BMWs and Lexus, etc.

The economy of scale due to the number of that car's model to be anticipatedly sold, is important in being self sufficient in supporting the variation of design. Especially when over in the States, tax is so much lower and the vehicle price is so much lower... Even if they upspecced everything, the consumer won't get doubly stung in the pocket. It actually makes a lot of sense considering so many people drive Porsches and Beamers (M3s hmmm) over there just because they're so affordable.

My logic follows. Check it out.

[aaronng]

I don't think the instrument panel is more upmarket it's just different. . My simple point is that it is not the instrument panel that makes the car more upmarket or not it is how the car is finally specced up. I personally prefer the actual design of our instrument panel but then there would be others that would prefer the Accura layout. That is NOT a basis to pitch the car into a particular segment. It is what the equipment level is plus all the "fruit" items you add for one market vs the other. The actual "what tou get for your $$" is a real issue. One instrument panel design vs another is just a perception issue and osme will favour one and others will favour another. So to tool for one dash/instrument panel design is clearly more cost effective and then you just "spec" up the car and add the "fruit" to suit where you want to pitch it in the respective market places and how you ultimately want to price the product.

Acura HAD to use a unique instrument panel on the TSX because the JDM one was using the same instrument design on the 03-05 Inspir, which was on the USDM Accord. Acura didn't want the TSX to be labeled just another Accord (which it was).

[tron07]

Compare instrument panel of the 06 and the older 03-05 models.. which one looks more upmarket?

[aaronng]

Compare instrument panel of the 06 and the older 03-05 models.. which one looks more upmarket?

06 of course. Especially with the blue lights and the multi info display.

[tony1234]

Yeah,some of the features(eg.bluetooth)the USDM TSX has would be good but then it'd cost more.Time for an upgrade Aaron!:p