Civic Type R $39,990 + On Roads

[ginganggooly]

i would think that all the airbags and luxury comforts is what the market demands, they do survey not only for there own customers but look at competitors and you have to match that competition...yes take out all the creature comforts and you can have the type R at 1200kg no worries


The thing is, if Honda wants to compete in a market segment that is crowded with 2.0l and larger capacity turbo motors, it needs to have a trump card. In the past, they overcame the power and torque defecits by reducing the vehicles' mass; now Honda seem to think a set of recaros and stiffer springs is the answer to their problems...
These days I can walk into Renault and by a car with 165kw, something like 300nm of torque and less mass to lug around (by the way, it has a five star euro ncap safety rating). So safety features aren't an excuse for being lardy.

I think Honda really dropped the ball with this car. It should cost 10k less and compete with the less desirable hatches- Colt, Polo etc...

[xtercii]

haha there are some intense love and hate about this car...

[denot]

I think Honda really dropped the ball with this car. It should cost 10k less and compete with the less desirable hatches- Colt, Polo etc...

well... quick question... will all this problem arised if we get the JDM instead of UKDM? If not, then we cant blame Honda... ^_^

[ginganggooly]

well... quick question... will all this problem arised if we get the JDM instead of UKDM? If not, then we cant blame Honda... ^_^

The JDM version looks to be leaps and bounds better.
FWIW I'm not blaming Honda engineers; I know Honda can give us what we want (the stuff already exists a la JDM CTR) they just choose not to...

At the end of the day, I'm sure they've got product managers employed here on mega-buck salaries. I guess they decided that there wouldn't be enough demand in Oz for the real CTR. Sad thing is that it's probably true.
Still, thats not enough to stop me having a whinge on an internet forum :p

[krazibone]

The car is here to stay so tissue box that way =>

Thats all i can say. Negative posts which are starting to get boring especially when they are the same over and over again.

[xtercii]

It’s just a Japanese culture to retain the better product for their own market. I am pretty sure even if they did choose to bring in the sedan Type R it would have a detuned motor, smaller brakes etc. just like the old DC5R. Learning from their previous mistakes which the DC5R copped massive criticisms, they are not going to follow the same step again. So in that sense it’s definitely a wiser move for Honda to import the hatch Type R, at least its specification is consistent with the rest of the world, and on surface nobody is given a wash-down model.

[denot]

It’s just a Japanese culture to retain the better product for their own market. I am pretty sure even if they did choose to bring in the sedan Type R it would have a detuned motor, smaller brakes etc. just like the old DC5R. Learning from their previous mistakes which the DC5R copped massive criticisms, they are not going to follow the same step again. So in that sense it’s definitely a wiser move for Honda to import the hatch Type R, at least its specification is consistent with the rest of the world, and on surface nobody is given a wash-down model.

i believe the DC5R is not detuned and downgraded by Honda purposely... i think its our Oz law that enforced honda to do that...

[xtercii]

aussie law?? What kinda law says that? Does the law also say ozzie dc5r should have smaller wheels and no brembos?

[denot]

aussie law?? What kinda law says that? Does the law also say ozzie dc5r should have smaller wheels and no brembos?

whoops... when u guys said "detuned" i thought its the same as "not giving the best engined tuning" (engine modification) and not including all other accessories (brakes, wheels, interior, exterior, etc)

[UNLS1]

i doubt honda would sell as many if it was like the old one stripped out ect, is the focus, wrx, mazda 3, golf gti all stripped out???? NO!
pull ur heads in, honda need to be competative in this hot hatch market, people want hot hatches with luxuries, not stripped out race cars ffs.

get with the times.

[ginganggooly]

i doubt honda would sell as many if it was like the old one stripped out ect, is the focus, wrx, mazda 3, golf gti all stripped out???? NO!
pull ur heads in, honda need to be competative in this hot hatch market, people want hot hatches with luxuries, not stripped out race cars ffs.

get with the times.

Well then cranky pants, it's not really a type-r- is it?

If they are going to compete with those cars, the civic will need an extra 500cc's or a turbo, or 500cc's AND a turbo... 148kw and 193nm doesn't cut it compared to the cars you mentioned.

In summary, they've created a car that is slower than it's competitors, is less driveable, rides more harshly but, is similarly equipped - yay for honda. It's like someone in product development couldn't make up their mind about how, where and with whom they wanted this car to compete.

[idunlie]

perhaps some of these arguments would have been non-existant if they had named the car type S?

then we'd have less arguments of it not being a type R and more arguments on why they didn't bring over the jdm ctr.

[fasthonda]

There will be an online forum on Thursday JULY 5th,7:30 P:M,that will give people the opportunity to ask the experts questions about the Civic Type R.
All you need to do is to register.

http://www.hondaexperts.com.au/

[xenfacta]

thats brave

[krazibone]

Well then cranky pants, it's not really a type-r- is it?

If they are going to compete with those cars, the civic will need an extra 500cc's or a turbo, or 500cc's AND a turbo... 148kw and 193nm doesn't cut it compared to the cars you mentioned.

In summary, they've created a car that is slower than it's competitors, is less driveable, rides more harshly but, is similarly equipped - yay for honda. It's like someone in product development couldn't make up their mind about how, where and with whom they wanted this car to compete.

Not sure were you got your source from but alot of consumers are happy with the car. Please test drive one and make your own judgement rather then depending on other peoples comments. I have seen people converting from the EP3 to the FN2 on the UK forums saying that the car is now livable compared to the EP3.

[eriktufa]

test drove one today.

1 word = awesome.

It's worth buying and it felt faster than stock dc5 :D (no flaming here).

CTR gearbox is much nicer than ITR.

[ginganggooly]

Not sure were you got your source from but alot of consumers are happy with the car. Please test drive one and make your own judgement rather then depending on other peoples comments. I have seen people converting from the EP3 to the FN2 on the UK forums saying that the car is now livable compared to the EP3.

Not sure where I got my source for which comment exactly?
I don't form my opinions based solely on the input from other forumers, and it's presumptuous -and irritating- of you to suggest otherwise.

If someone complains about a ITR/CTR not being "livable", I can't help but be baffled as to why they're buying a car that is targetted towards weekend racers and hardcore enthusiasts. On the other hand, if you're happy with a car for the masses, all power to you, however I'll never agree that a 1345kg civic is worthy of a type-r sticker.

Anyway, back on the weight thing, which stat is actually correct???
UK website lists the mass as 1267kg, Oz lists 1345kg...
:confused:

1267 sounds a good deal better, I'd consider the car if it was closer to that sort of weight...

[NeRV]

saw the CTR today for the first time in the flesh and honestly it looks 10x better in real life then in the photos we see. Awesome car!

[Tofu]

so ...why is there 2 TypeRs? LOL

what's the point of this UK CTR when they have another TypeR which is and is known to be so much better performance wise? (I compare the two based on performance, since both are called TypeR)...

[ginganggooly]

so ...why is there 2 TypeRs? LOL

what's the point of this UK CTR when they have another TypeR which is and is known to be so much better performance wise? (I compare the two based on performance, since both are called TypeR)...

The bean counters in Honda feel that they would make more money by selling the UK spec CTR's in Oz... And they're probably right.

If the JDM CTR was released here, I'd buy it in a heartbeat, in fact I would have pre-ordered it, untested.

[sitta]

so ...why is there 2 TypeRs? LOL

what's the point of this UK CTR when they have another TypeR which is and is known to be so much better performance wise? (I compare the two based on performance, since both are called TypeR)...

because all the uk civic are built in uk and there are not the shape that we are getting in australia. So y cant they have their own type r? the previous tye r also built in uk

[UNLS1]

lol the badge says its a type R so it is.

Id take one over the old integra type S anyday, that didnt even deserve a type S badge!

[xtercii]

hahaha you make me laugh buddy, you are a Honda salesman and of course anything released from Honda you will say it's FANTASTIC!! especially this ctr is the first new Honda performance model in quite a while, you would do anything to put gold on it. The only time a car salesman would say anything bad about their own model is when they are trying to push the sale of another.

[Tofu]

lol the badge says its a type R so it is.

Id take one over the old integra type S anyday, that didnt even deserve a type S badge!

lol before this comment, I actually thought you had some credibility as a Honda sales person...

[krazibone]

In summary, they've created a car that is slower than it's competitors, is less driveable, rides more harshly but, is similarly equipped - yay for honda.


This is the quote i am talking about mate. Cars not even out in Sydney and you know all about it already? How do you know it rides harshly? How do you know its slower then most of competitors? The civic is the direct competitor of the GTI and from some UK mags i recall the Civic has out performed the GTI.

With the weight comparison UK has two versions Non-GT and GT while Australia has one, you might want to double check what version it is in the UK.

[jeffske]

There will be an online forum on Thursday JULY 5th,7:30 P:M,that will give people the opportunity to ask the experts questions about the Civic Type R.
All you need to do is to register.

http://www.hondaexperts.com.au/

someone better warn them to wear their flame suits

[abzndintegra]

just in case anyone wanted to know the drive away price its $43920

[sitta]

This is the quote i am talking about mate. Cars not even out in Sydney and you know all about it already? How do you know it rides harshly? How do you know its slower then most of competitors? The civic is the direct competitor of the GTI and from some UK mags i recall the Civic has out performed the GTI.

With the weight comparison UK has two versions Non-GT and GT while Australia has one, you might want to double check what version it is in the UK.

ctr will be in the sydney dealership tommorow or wednesday in sydney latest is this week

[ginganggooly]

This is the quote i am talking about mate. Cars not even out in Sydney and you know all about it already? How do you know it rides harshly? How do you know its slower then most of competitors? The civic is the direct competitor of the GTI and from some UK mags i recall the Civic has out performed the GTI.

With the weight comparison UK has two versions Non-GT and GT while Australia has one, you might want to double check what version it is in the UK.

Are you implying that it's faster,rides better and is more truculent than a gti, 3 mps, vxr, megane 225 etc?

Aside from ride quality, these are not subjective elements, you don't need to drive the car to know it'll be slower and less driveable. One look at the mass, torque and power outputs and you can see where it's all headed, and it ain't in the civic's direction.

For the sake of discussion, the car's ride quality has been consitantly pilloried by both the australian and international press, not that I care much about ride quality.

I'd love to be proven wrong, because I'd buy the car if i was... Unfortunately, I just don't see this being the case.

[BlitZ]

ahahhha does anyone remember the mugen dc5 at the sydney autosalon...
the only thing mugen it has was a body kit and mags ahahh

[slipangle]

There will be an online forum on Thursday JULY 5th,7:30 P:M,that will give people the opportunity to ask the experts questions about the Civic Type R.
All you need to do is to register.

http://www.hondaexperts.com.au/

:thumbsup: This is a great opportunity to get a viewpoint on some of the issues mentioned straight from the horse's mouth!.

[UNLS1]

lol before this comment, I actually thought you had some credibility as a Honda sales person...

i drove one for ages it was nothing special, very poor seats, only 4 airbags, shocking turning circle, poor visablility. The UK CTR is a massive step forward.

[industrie]

ahahhha does anyone remember the mugen dc5 at the sydney autosalon...
the only thing mugen it has was a body kit and mags ahahh

this is the civic type R thread not the DC5 thread...

i think if you add up the amount of enthusiasts of the old type R to the whole market segment right now its immaterial to honda australia at the end of the day, people can whinge about its performance and styling all day, but at the end of the day the car is going to sell based on the badge and this gives honda some credit that they have lacked sinced the type R badge was taken off the market here. All i can say is at least honda did something about it and bought in something that nothing!

[UNLS1]

hahaha you make me laugh buddy, you are a Honda salesman and of course anything released from Honda you will say it's FANTASTIC!! especially this ctr is the first new Honda performance model in quite a while, you would do anything to put gold on it. The only time a car salesman would say anything bad about their own model is when they are trying to push the sale of another.

wrong, i give my honest opinion all the time, as i said, ive driven lots of the competition i love the CTR, but at the end id prob like to own a GTI. I had a holden gen 3 for the first 2 years i worked for honda, i loved that car so much but i could give u a list of things that were poor and i didnt like.
I had a type S, i didnt love it, i loved my m6 euro better.
If u have anything else to say feel free to PM me:)

[curik]

has anyone read the Motor Magazine where civic type r was reviewed? If I remember correctly it did 7.2 seconds. I believe this is not due to the crap driver or weather since they also tested rs4 on another edition and pretty much was able to get the claimed 4.8 secs.

[sitta]

the civic did 6.6 with big tail wind pushing it lol or maybe the stig drove it like mad

[curik]

Top gear says civic type r is the best hot hatch. Fair enough, but it is the best on the TRACK, where you dont care about anything but fastest time. But do you own a hot hatch for sheer tracking? If yes then the typeR is the best. But if one includes other factors such as daily driving, fuel consumption, comfort, and other things outside of track, I can see why one picks up a GTI+DSG over the CTR. Turbo, easily do 6.6s 0-100, huge potential of extra power from mods, better FC than CTR, german quality. The only drawback is almost one in 10 golfs you spot is GTI, and it only goes to 7000rpm.

[yfin]

hahaha you make me laugh buddy, you are a Honda salesman and of course anything released from Honda you will say it's FANTASTIC!! especially this ctr is the first new Honda performance model in quite a while, you would do anything to put gold on it. The only time a car salesman would say anything bad about their own model is when they are trying to push the sale of another.

His opinion is as worthy as yours - that is how ozhonda works. At least he has driven the car.

There is a good hot hatch review here including the Civic Type R - doesn't do so good here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1CbK94fBfe0 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=1CbK94fBfe0)

The person who refers to the euro makes a good point. Certainly if you are looking for a car to modify the euro is a very good base if you want a Honda. And with some Ecu tweaks there is some huge gains to be made. The suspension set up stock is quite soft - but with some modifications can be made razor sharp. And wishbone/multi link is a better setup than what is on the rear of the CTR. How easily the CTR can be modified remains to be seen.

[xtercii]

wrong, i give my honest opinion all the time, as i said, ive driven lots of the competition i love the CTR, but at the end id prob like to own a GTI. I had a holden gen 3 for the first 2 years i worked for honda, i loved that car so much but i could give u a list of things that were poor and i didnt like.
I had a type S, i didnt love it, i loved my m6 euro better.
If u have anything else to say feel free to PM me:)

haha I like to put the words on the open forum, but don't worry I know when to stop...

one important question, would there ever be a white model released? 3 colours is just too little to choose from...

[Tofu]

i drove one for ages it was nothing special, very poor seats, only 4 airbags, shocking turning circle, poor visablility. The UK CTR is a massive step forward.

i was referring to performance, of the UK CTR vs the TypeS.

if you want to talk about seats, airbags, and turning circle...the CTR not all that great compared to $40k-$45k euro hatches

[Wazza]

Top gear says civic type r is the best hot hatch. Fair enough, but it is the best on the TRACK, where you dont care about anything but fastest time. But do you own a hot hatch for sheer tracking? If yes then the typeR is the best. But if one includes other factors such as daily driving, fuel consumption, comfort, and other things outside of track, I can see why one picks up a GTI+DSG over the CTR. Turbo, easily do 6.6s 0-100, huge potential of extra power from mods, better FC than CTR, german quality. The only drawback is almost one in 10 golfs you spot is GTI, and it only goes to 7000rpm.

I believe the CTR actually posted the slowest lap time of all the cars tested in Top Gear's hot hatch comparison which completely discredits your ill informed assumption. Something along the lines of 'despite a shortfall in poke, there's a strong argument that it provides the most accomplished and accessible mix of involvement on the one hand and cossetting on the other' was the reason for it winning

[IAMVTEC]

Why is Accord Euro getting mentioned in this, its a family sedan not a sports orientated hatchback. Its entirely different market.

Whether the type R good value or not cannot say yet before drive, I like why you get the distinct styling and lots of standard features. But 40k for a Civic? 40k for a integra push it already, but civici I think too far a push. 40k you can buy a true sports back nearly, not these pretend sports based on hatchbacks.

[E-Gene]

Spotted the Civic TypeR in the Yarra Valley today while I was bringing some friends wine tasting. Had a chat with the driver and he said that it was loaned to him by Honda to get reviewed, so I reckoned he must be from Drive or Wheels or one of the motor magazines. He let me take a look inside and it's a beaut!

[IAMVTEC]

^ look nicer than I thought

[Tofu]

i drove one for ages it was nothing special, very poor seats, only 4 airbags, shocking turning circle, poor visablility. The UK CTR is a massive step forward.

um...TypeS turning circle is 11.6m
this CTR turning circle is 12.3m
how is a smaller turning circle in the TypeS shocking?

poor visability in a TypeS compared to the CTR?? um...isn't there like no visibility from the rear windscreen because of the so called integrated wing.?

[UNLS1]

u get used to the wing, i ment when u do shoulder checks, type s is terrible. After driving the CTR for a bit i got used to the rear wing and it is fine, it splits the back windscreen in half but u can still see everything behind the car.
I dont mean to flame or cause any anger. Im just voicing my opinion on the new CTR and a few others to compare it with, just like others who have NOT drivin the car who are giving their opinions and think its a shocker! i dont mind that is their opinion!
i even had a lol @ the remark about a White CTR being done...

kindest regards

[curik]

12.3m? man the camry even does better than that!

[twing]

I dont mean to flame or cause any anger. Im just voicing my opinion on the new CTR and a few others to compare it with, just like others who have NOT drivin the car who are giving their opinions and think its a shocker! i dont mind that is their opinion!
kindest regards

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: on that. I must admit that you have so much of patience on dealing with those posts. No wonder Honda hires you ;)
When OZ Honda doesn't bring Type R, people complains.
When OZ Honda bring Type R (DC2R DC5R), people complains cause it's detuned.
When OZ Honda bring DC5 Type S, people complains cause it's not Type R, though the previous DC5R was closed to be Type S.
When OZ Honda bring CTR, people complains that it's too comfy :confused:
too porky, too slow
Let's say if OZ Honda bring in JDM CTR, people complains cause it's 4 doors :confused:

I think it's the fact that human cannot be happy. Look at the good side guys, some countries can't even get an Type R.

Daily car and track car are contrary to each other. Normal street is never be as smooth as a race track. I remember an episode in Top Gear which takes Ferrari, Ford GT, Zonda to a test for daily driving. It cracks me up when they tried to get the car off the parking ramp.. those cars are either too wide or too low.

People with lots of $$$ can afford two cars, or severals.... that I would say good on you. But not for majority others.

I agree that UK CTR tainted with true image of Type R which is more track focussed. If the CTR is rebadged as CTS, I'm sure people will complain again :D

I would settle for this CTR as it brings more creature comfort with a hint of performance and driving experience. Some people can drive Melb - Syd with their DC2R, but not me. 4000rpm on cruising is music for others, but nuissance for me. The cruise control is a blessing for me. CTR is not the fastest on the tracks or the twisties, but speed is only one of component involved in driving experience. If people watch Initial D, they will understand that :)
Quote from TopGear Stig's article:
Despite a shortfall in poke, it provides the most accomplished and accessible mix of involvement...
Even they acknowledge that it's not the fastest.

UNLS1, could you bring it to the Melb car wash wednesday night? :wave::wave:

[UNLS1]

um...TypeS turning circle is 11.6m
this CTR turning circle is 12.3m
how is a smaller turning circle in the TypeS shocking?

poor visability in a TypeS compared to the CTR?? um...isn't there like no visibility from the rear windscreen because of the so called integrated wing.?

oh and please if ur going to quote information please make sure it is correct
CTR turning circle
Wheels : 11.12m
Body : 11.18m

Thats from Honda Australia :)

[Zdster]

Can everyone please take a deep breath in here and relax a little. Friendly debate is most welcome but please dont take it past that.

[Tofu]

12.3m? man the camry even does better than that!
12.3m makes the car feel like it has a more sensitive steering, but it makes the car a nightmare to park...

so how does this make the CTR a more liveable car?

[denot]

oh and please if ur going to quote information please make sure it is correct
CTR turning circle
Wheels : 11.12m
Body : 11.18m

Thats from Honda Australia :)

so it isnt 12.3 rite?

[Tofu]

so the weight of 1345kg from Honda Australia is also correct?

[EuroDude]

6.6sec to 100km, not bad :p


Redbook specs ftw
http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au/vehicle/specs.php?key=HOND07EE

Body Style HATCHBACK
Badge Type R
No. Doors 3
Seat Capacity 4
Series 8th Gen MY07
VIN Number SHHFN23607U ####
Drive Front Wheel Drive
Transmission 6sp Manual
Gear Location Floor
Steering Rack and Pinion
Engine Size 1998cc (2.0)
No. Cylinders 4
Engine Configuration In-line
Cam DOHC with VVT & Lift
Valves/Cylinder 4
Compression Ratio 11:1
Engine Cycle 4 Stroke
Engine Type Piston
Engine Location Front
Engine Number K20Z4 1#####1
Engine Code K2OZ4
Fuel Type Petrol - Unleaded ULP
RON Rating 95
Fuel Capacity 50L
Fuel Consumption Combined (ADR 81/01) 9.3L/100km
CO2 215g/km
Fuel Delivery Multi-Point Injected
Method of Delivery Electronic Sequential
Induction Aspirated
Power 148kW @ 7800rpm
Torque 193Nm @ 5600rpm
Acceleration 0-100Km/h 6.6 secs
Kerb Weight 1345kg
Tare Mass 1315kg
Wheel Base 2635mm
Length 4285mm
Width 1785mm
Height 1445mm
Track Front 1505mm
Track Rear 1530mm
Country of origin UNITED KINGDOM

[eriktufa]

Weight doesn't do justice, drive it and you will know how good the car is.

[UNLS1]

so it isnt 12.3 rite?

nope, i got honda to ring me today, its not brouchure!
i dont know where that figure was plucked from!

the weight is correct though.

[industrie]

i think people need to actually test drive the car than commenting based on other peoples reviews. or what they read on specs..if you have driven the car and pushed it and gotten a feel you might have a different opinion...at the end of the day the type R is a new car for the market and if you have 44K laying around and want a honda civic type R then go for it. Those who complain about performance just go buy a s2000, 350Z, WRX, EVO, S15 or something with a V8 engine in it and you can have as much power as possible...just remember speed limits

[sitta]

nope, i got honda to ring me today, its not brouchure!
i dont know where that figure was plucked from!

the weight is correct though.

probably from some internet review that made it up or actually tested it

[ONTHERUN]

The NEW CTR is looks KOOL!!

[mpd076-chuck]

oh and please if ur going to quote information please make sure it is correct
CTR turning circle
Wheels : 11.12m
Body : 11.18m

Thats from Honda Australia :)

You sure it's not 11.2 and 11.8? There is usually a difference of at least .5 metre between wheel and body figures and body is usually the quoted figure.

11.2 and 11.8 is what this site lists
http://www.worldcarfans.com/print.cfm/ID/2070129.006/lang/eng

[UNLS1]

You sure it's not 11.2 and 11.8? There is usually a difference of at least .5 metre between wheel and body figures and body is usually the quoted figure.

11.2 and 11.8 is what this site lists
http://www.worldcarfans.com/print.cfm/ID/2070129.006/lang/eng

yes thats it, take out the .1 i had listed

soz

[Tofu]

i got the info about the turning circle from carsales.com.au
going for a drive this saturday, will either confirm my doubts or prove me wrong...

[Wazza]

Just another interesting fact...

Honda Singapore actually quote the 0-100 time as 7.0 seconds which definately seems more realistic...

[xtercii]

singapore is too hot, it affects the performance...

[d15z1SUX]

lol.......

[aaronng]

Carpoint review. http://carpoint.com.au/car-review/2709412.aspx
I didn't know that it came with heated power side mirrors, a chilled glovebox, rain-sensing wipers and auto-lights. Very nice. Well equipped for the potential buyer in the 30's that has the cash for performance but wants the convenience too.

[E-Gene]

Just another interesting fact...

Honda Singapore actually quote the 0-100 time as 7.0 seconds which definately seems more realistic...

I believe that Singapore won't be getting the same TypeR as the one that we get here.

[Wazza]

I believe that Singapore won't be getting the same TypeR as the one that we get here.

Check out the link http://www.honda.com.sg/type_R.htm

Use the 'Quick Links' panel on the left to view exterior, interior, colours etc

As far as I can tell, it is the same car...

[UNLS1]

lol i have just sold a civic sport to my mrs, its on the ship now
and he younger bro cam in yesterday and bought a black CTR!
that driveway will look cool! haha
oh and the mum has a V6 accord

looks like my demo will be on the road!

[sitta]

picking mine in a couple of hours hahah its christmas time

[Tofu]

just came back from a 20min test drive in the CTR...
first impressions...what's going on with the door handle???
anyway, lets move on from the quality issues.
the engine, yes, it is responsive, but nothing too different to the TypeS K20Z1...if anything it feels the TypeS pulls harder, that's how i felt it anyway...the gearbox feels exactly the same as my TypeS, and 3rd gear has the two step notchy feeling, just like the typeS.

the VTEC comes in earlier, so maybe you think you're going faster, but I don't feel any difference. The seats...well, I find the Colt RalliArt has better seats than this...but i has side airbags..which is a good thing.

and I cannot see the speedometer...it gets blocked by the top the steering wheel...and the turning circle is about the same as the TypeS.

Now the good things about this car. It is true you have to see it in person to really see how nicely styled this car is. I drove a black one and it definitely looks good in black. Red would look good too.

the brake calipers with the TypeR on them looks pretty cool.

To me, this feel like my TypeS, just with a different interior and exterior...
But this is my opionion...so don't base your judgement on it.

[MarekSan]

picking mine in a couple of hours hahah its christmas time

Pics please as soon as you can :wave:

[aaronng]

To me, this feel like my TypeS, just with a different interior and exterior...
But this is my opionion...so don't base your judgement on it.
Is the suspension stiffer than your Type S? And are the side airbags built into the seat?

[UNLS1]

how can u not see the speedo?
u do know the steering wheel is adjustable?

I find the type S seats are not supportive at all, not like the older recaros, the have always been writtin as not very good seats for support wise. i would be comparing the CTR seats to the Type S seats, not the colt lol
Good to see u had a test drive
u must love ur type s very much

i found the exhaust very different too, sound more agressive in the CTR

[Tofu]

Is the suspension stiffer than your Type S? And are the side airbags built into the seat?

I can't really say, because i have TeinSS since i bought the car...but it's almost as stiff as the teinSS, but not quite as stiff...

the airbags are built into the seats, on the side...i have no idea how they would be deployed, unlike the typeS leather seats, you can see there's a module where the airbag sits...the CTR sets is integrated into the seats, i would assume it comes out of the seams of the seats when deployed..like in a MINI Cooper...(actually have seen this, my brother's MINI got T-boned last month..:()

I never said the TypeS seats were the best, but I have sat and driven in a DC5R for long distances, and it's not that comfortable to be quite honest.
My mother has a bad back, and she sat in the TypeS for a 2hour drive up to Toowoomba area and she didn't complain a thing...and also that's why we bought a BMW 120i, because of the supportive seats...But I know the TypeS seats are not great at all on the track.

All I'm saying is the CTR seats are nothing to jump up and down about, because you will get the same sort of thing in a Colt RalliArt...:p
I mean the seat in a Porsche Cayman, even though it's not top of the range Porsche, that seat is so comfortable and supportive...I guess I'm just spoilt.

the speedo and the steering wheel position really doesn't work. I'm around 5"11 (180cm) after adjusting the steering coulomb for a few minutes, i still couldn't clearly see the speedo...in the end i had to lower the steering wheel almost to my upper thigh/knees. And when i did this, the seating position just feels strange, feels like i was "on top" of the steering/dash...unless i move the seat back rest back...guess i'll need to fiddle with the positioning around if i owned one.

It's just that for $43k for a Civic, it really needs to "impress" me to get my cheque book out. And i guess when I've owned two DC5 in 5 years and now have a TypeS, there's no point in buying this CTR.

[sitta]

i just got my car this afternoon and it was awesome even though i havent touched the VTEC part yet haha keeping it under 5000 and this car is fast truly an amazing car, going to wax my car tonight haha. So far no problem with third gear as alot of people says, hmm i love the smell of new car. My dad drove the car for a while (he is paying for this) and he came out with a smile on his face and said, this car is bullshit hahahaha he wasnt expecting much from this car earlier by the way my number is #4260 off the line:)

[aaronng]

I can't really say, because i have TeinSS since i bought the car...but it's almost as stiff as the teinSS, but not quite as stiff...
I see. Thanks for the feedback. Just trying to find out if the CTR is as stiff as they claim it is.



the airbags are built into the seats, on the side...i have no idea how they would be deployed, unlike the typeS leather seats, you can see there's a module where the airbag sits...the CTR sets is integrated into the seats, i would assume it comes out of the seams of the seats when deployed..like in a MINI Cooper...(actually have seen this, my brother's MINI got T-boned last month..:()

You don't know how happy I am because the airbags are built into the seats. At least now, Euro owners have an sports seat option while staying legal by maintaining that side airbag (ours also comes out by splitting the seams). :thumbsup:

[sitta]

Let me tell you this, the suspension is stiff but its not uncomfortable it is very easy to live with, even though its stiff it doesnt vibrate much which is very good. OMGF im so tired now... just waxed my new ctr... i will have a good night sleep tonight

[UNLS1]

hmmm u guess tofu u must have a long body in some parts(legs ect) lol im 6'3" and i can get into it perfect and see the speedo without a worry

[outl@w]

i saw the civic type R @ the HOT 4s magazine office in silverwater. Looks like theres going to be a right up of the hot hatch soon.

Damm it looks soo good in person

[[200]]

There are a couple at Scotts Honda in the north shore. Really nice to sit in...

Does anyone know what K20A series the cars are using?

[lukits01]

;1237482']There are a couple at Scotts Honda in the north shore. Really nice to sit in...

Does anyone know what K20A series the cars are using?

its a K20Z4

[Hullabaloo]

I find the type S seats are not supportive at all, not like the older recaros, the have always been writtin as not very good seats for support wise. i would be comparing the CTR seats to the Type S seats, not the colt lol
Good to see u had a test drive
u must love ur type s very much

i found the exhaust very different too, sound more agressive in the CTR

Your reviews and info on the CTR has been great. You've make a lot of comparisons to the Type S (mostly which say how bad the type S is, which is fair enough cos everyone is entitled to their opinion) but I think a better car to compare it to would be the DC5R as the DC5S was aimed at a different market (by having leather seats, sunroof, etc). You say the seats are good but how are they compared to the DC5R recaros? How about it's "speed" compared to the the DC5R which has almost the same power and is lighter?

Can you confirm that the engine is a K20Z4? And does anyone know what the stock tyres are?

[lukits01]

Can you confirm that the engine is a K20Z4? And does anyone know what the stock tyres are?

Stock tyres are Bridgestone RE050A
225/40/18
And the engine code was written on my licensing paper
so would assume its pretty accurate

[sitta]

today i went vtecing and beat some holden utes haha. At the end of the day when i got out of the car i felt like pyuking :( eventhough im drivng, never felt like this before, the handling of this car shake me really well

[qstoria]

today i went vtecing and beat some holden utes haha. At the end of the day when i got out of the car i felt like pyuking :( eventhough im drivng, never felt like this before, the handling of this car shake me really well



what sort of holden utes?

[sitta]

what sort of holden utes?

some green Ps with fake SS badge i guess cuz SS will kill me. I think im pushing the engine too much, but people say dont do high rev until te car reach 100km. This i found to be very very hard because this engine likes to hang around 3k - 4k rpm so its very hard to keep it in the lower rpm, easier in the higher rpm.

[qstoria]

they might not kill u. depends on many things but yes its a tall ask most of the time vs V8.

id give it more than 100 km before any sort of high revving. at least 1000. what colour did u get btw? saw a black one and they look hot. wasnt a fan of these cars at first but may come round to them

[sitta]

i got a black one at least my car can go as fast as those v8s with less fuel haha . If you see a black one in northern beaches thats mine

[Tofu]

hmmm u guess tofu u must have a long body in some parts(legs ect) lol im 6'3" and i can get into it perfect and see the speedo without a worry

haha i do have long legs :p
do you see the speedo just above the steering wheel?
then you see the tachometer between the top of the steering wheel and the horn?

[aaronng]

today i went vtecing and beat some holden utes haha. At the end of the day when i got out of the car i felt like pyuking :( eventhough im drivng, never felt like this before, the handling of this car shake me really well

Puking? Wow, must be very grippy and flat in the corners. :thumbsup:


some green Ps with fake SS badge i guess cuz SS will kill me. I think im pushing the engine too much, but people say dont do high rev until te car reach 100km. This i found to be very very hard because this engine likes to hang around 3k - 4k rpm so its very hard to keep it in the lower rpm, easier in the higher rpm.

No high revs and throttle before 100km will give you a weak motor. Just make sure you warm up your engine 100% (twice the time it takes for your temperature gauge to reach the middle) and then you can give it all the redline you want.


haha i do have long legs :p
do you see the speedo just above the steering wheel?
then you see the tachometer between the top of the steering wheel and the horn?
You're meant to see the speedometer above the steering wheel and the tacho below.

[xenfacta]

ppl have had the same complaints about the FD's as well but fo rme its perfect. im 6' n it fits in perfectly

[bennjamin]

hi all. Question for my lil brother.

what exactly is the chassis code / designation for the new civic type R ?

thanks !

[twing]

it's fn2

[.::F[L]Y::.]

drove past eastwood honda today and saw a red one parked in the showroom. Looks WEAKSAUCE.....

[aaronng]

^^ test driven one yet? ;)

[.::F[L]Y::.]

^^ test driven one yet? ;)


not yet Aaron. soon i hope. but personally i do not like the exterior. For an R doesnt look as aggressive as it should be.

But from the specs. i wouldnt expect it to be any more exciting than a dc5r.

[aaronng]

Y::.;1239778']not yet Aaron. soon i hope. but personally i do not like the exterior. For an R doesnt look as aggressive as it should be.

But from the specs. i wouldnt expect it to be any more exciting than a dc5r.
Well, it is only a hot hatch. Not really a daily driven track car like what the old Type Rs were. And since the chassis is based on the Civic in the UK which is sold as the equivalent to our 1.8L VTi, they can't do much to make it look more aggressive other than by adding bodykits and larger wheels. :)

Just watched Best Motoring's test of the FD2 CTR and eventhough it has 165kW and weighs 1270kg (7.69 kg/kW), which is worse than the JDM DC5R (162kW, 1180kg, 7.28 kg/kW) the CTR still beat the DC5R in 0-300m by 0.22 seconds. So eventhough the FN2 is heavy (1345kg) with similar power to the AUDM DC5R, it might still turn out to be a surprising hot hatch.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

Well, it is only a hot hatch. Not really a daily driven track car like what the old Type Rs were. And since the chassis is based on the Civic in the UK which is sold as the equivalent to our 1.8L VTi, they can't do much to make it look more aggressive other than by adding bodykits and larger wheels. :)

Just watched Best Motoring's test of the FD2 CTR and eventhough it has 165kW and weighs 1270kg (7.69 kg/kW), which is worse than the JDM DC5R (162kW, 1180kg, 7.28 kg/kW) the CTR still beat the DC5R in 0-300m by 0.22 seconds. So eventhough the FN2 is heavy (1345kg) with similar power to the AUDM DC5R, it might still turn out to be a surprising hot hatch.

props to your wealth of knowledge man. :thumbsup:

but i prefer the raw feel of a car even if its used for daily driving. the new CTR is not for everyone i suppose.

[sikisdr69]

Y::.;1239778']not yet Aaron. soon i hope. but personally i do not like the exterior. For an R doesnt look as aggressive as it should be.

But from the specs. i wouldnt expect it to be any more exciting than a dc5r.

I have to agree with you on the looks, my opinion is that it looks really girly from outside but the interior is another thing all together, test drive wise honda homebush said that it will be available in a few weeks as it only got released yesterday, ill be looking forward to testing it out

[aaronng]

Y::.;1239904']
but i prefer the raw feel of a car even if its used for daily driving. the new CTR is not for everyone i suppose.

It's funny in the JDM CTR video, they were testing comfort. The passengers were bouncing up and down in the car when they were driving on straight flat road. The suspension is stiff. Even at the end of the review, they said that the CTR is a fast car and a real Type R, but might be difficult to sell in today's market because it is very harsh (ride quality-wise).

[bennjamin]

is the JDM FN2 a rear torsion bar too like the brit one ? (and thus the AUDM one) ?

[aaronng]

is the JDM FN2 a rear torsion bar too like the brit one ? (and thus the AUDM one) ?

JDM FD2 has front Macpherson struts and rear double wishbone.

[matt]

is the JDM FN2 a rear torsion bar too like the brit one ? (and thus the AUDM one) ?

there isnt a JDM FN2, at this point anyway. JDM sedan is the FD2.

so in addition to what aaronng said.
yes the FN2 has a torsion bar rear as does the AUDM one. along with macpherson strut front.

[outl@w]

is the motor in the civic type r a new motor design?

[matt]

its still a k series, been revised a bit tho from earlier k series.

[bennjamin]

1kw more and alittle less torque but earlier delivery , apparently.

[matt]

yah VTEC xover is at about 5400rpm compared to 5800 for earlier verisions.

not too sure how different cam profiles are or intake/exhuats

[aaronng]

is the motor in the civic type r a new motor design?

From the info I've seen, the UK CTR (FN2) has revised cams and ECU tuning, so torque is improved throughout the RPM range, but at the peak amount is still similar to the DC5R. Of course, the headers and exhaust are different because of the different chassis. But the base engine (valve size, porting, runner design) should be very similar to the EP3's engine. What makes the FN2 quicker than the EP3 is the lightweight flywheel and the shorter final drive, so you don't have to wait to hit VTEC to get good acceleration.

The JDM CTR (FD2) on the other hand gets more improvements. In addition to the lightweight flywheel and shorter final drive of 5.0x, the intake runner design is different, has NSX-style head porting, higher compression and it has a 64mm electronic throttle body. The headers are beautiful too! Have a look at it:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4460/fd2headersop2.jpg

[DOHCVTEC]

well well well, finally had a chance to drive the top gear king of hot hatches CTR!

the looks are striking! I like it particularly in red. interior is heaps wide with the application of magic seats...this is very practical in a "type R" car. interior is a lot nicer for the fussy ppl. climate control now standard. the price is quite good for this well equipped type R...back then my car didn't have air con standard when it was selling for the same price $39,990 rrp.

into the cockpit...the first thing u notice when u fire it up is that i can't even tell it's on or not...it's quiet. however, rev it a bit and it's engine note gets u realli fired up. it has the rumble of DC2 and the hi pitch of S2000.

low end torque is extremely strong with 3 guys on board. whoever looked at the spec sheet and said it needs to be revved to get going clearly expected too much from an NA 2.0...low and mid range acceleration is comparable to the turbo GTI - this is mostly attributed to it's close gearing and smarter i-VTEC set up catering for across the board. The car does not seem heavy although it's ard 1300kg.

while being a tad less frantic then my B18C at the 7000rpm to 8200rpm (FN 2 cut out) range, it felt WAY faster at everywhere else below top revs. this makes the car much more drivable around town n gave the car good aceleration out of corners. there isn't any flat spot around 5500rpm like B18C R.

The lack of LSD does let the inner wheel spin much during corner exits, although the VSC was turned on...LSD is the critical thing that it lacks, being a hi power front driver. if it wasn't for this reason, i would prolly think of buying it now.

steering feel and turn in is top notch. the let down is the rear suspension. The rear end is less adjustable and progressive than DC2R / DC5R models, possibly due to the switch to torsion beam / coil spring / damper set up instead of the previous double wishbone.

overall, it is a very competent car - fun to drive (not to be confused with very fast), practical, looks good, and also quite comfy.

It would be a wonderful car for me to drive to work in / do the shopping. if only it has an LSD, it would be near perfect.

[bennjamin]

test driving one next week - one thing i didnt like was the plasticy door handles - felt quite cheap and will easily break with my man-grip.
Looks great in black tho ! And the mph/kmh switch is cool :)

[Tofu]

i thought this FN2 uses a similar chassis as a Jazz...?

[aaronng]

test driving one next week - one thing i didnt like was the plasticy door handles - felt quite cheap and will easily break with my man-grip.
Looks great in black tho ! And the mph/kmh switch is cool :)

Oooh nice nice!

Even the Euro's door handles are chrome-plated plastic!

[aaronng]

i thought this FN2 uses a similar chassis as a Jazz...?

Yes it does. :)

[xenfacta]

And the mph/kmh switch is cool :)

switch to mph with the mrs in the car so she wont get shitty :-P.... honestly officer, i WAS doing 60....

[Khrome]

switch to mph with the mrs in the car so she wont get shitty :-P.... honestly officer, i WAS doing 60....

Lol, best idea ever. With that and the "Automatically folding side mirrors at 140mph" what else could you want.

[xenfacta]

Lol, best idea ever. With that and the "Automatically folding side mirrors at 140mph" what else could you want.


thats a good idea, who cares whos behind u at 140mph?

[matt]

well drove a CTR today so heres my thoughts.

all comparisons made to stock and lightly modified dc5r

pros

-looks good in the metal (tho i prefer the looks of the dc5r)

-suspension feels very nice, take bumps and edges very well considering 18's and handles nicely.

-g/box feels nice, tho shifter is further over than dc5

-engine is very revvy

-steering feels good too.

-interior is nice, glovebox is massive, could fit heaps of shite in there (again prefer dc5r interior but this one is nice)


cons

-doesnt feel that fast

-too quiet, i think its quieter inside at least than stock dc5r

-seems to do little blip of throttle on upshifts which gave me the shits,
i kept thinking i wasnt lifting throttle off properly till was
mentionted it was somethign to do with fly-by-wire throttle, tried it conciously a couple of times and it still does it. very off puttin at high rpms as it sends it past redline...

-dash is nice to read when putting about, but speedo is too hard to read when giving it abit and the
little shift light thing is absolutley useless, too small too dull and in wierd spot.

-rear wing is in a farked spot, blocks rear view right where car would be.

-seats dont feel as grippy

-door handles are a bit plasticy, and fuel cap is silly.

-i still think lack of LSD is a bit of a pity, i could notice the LSD in my car pretty quickly, and if the CTR had one i think it would defo be a good thing



overall i think its a good car, more time at the wheel would obviously help and might change some of the above.

but it will definately have a wider appeal than earlier type r's we've had access too, and i rekon it will sell pretty dam well.

[CTR Coupe]

-doesn't feel that fast

-too quiet, i think its quieter inside at least than stock dc5r

-seats dont feel as grippy

-door handles are a bit plasticy, and fuel cap is silly.


have you driven the golf GTI its direct competitor in the price range?

it doesn't feel slow to me. felt faster than the golf GTI but the golf had more pull down low.

The seats are worse in the golf

I think theres a fair bit of road noise due to the 18" wheels. still noisy inside the cabin when you hit mad vtec y0.

i agree with you on the fuel cap. i don't know wtf they were thinking with that its the biggest piece of plastic rubbish.

theres better vision out of the rear than the gen 2 CRX which had a similar setup.

[matt]

no i havent driven the GTi, that is all in comparison to my dc5r.

from what i had read about the CTR it was supposed to have more low down torque than other k20's but didnt feel that way to me.

might have to head to VW dealer and take a GTi for a spin i think

[CTR Coupe]

no i havent driven the GTi, that is all in comparison to my dc5r.

from what i had read about the CTR it was supposed to have more low down torque than other k20's but didnt feel that way to me.

might have to head to VW dealer and take a GTi for a spin i think

Don't get me wrong the golf is nice but is just so dam boring compared to the CTR.
plus you need to upgrade to leather purely because the standard cloth trim is just awful.

Honda claim that the CTR doesn't need an LSD due to the new traction control system. I think they are seriously wrong and torsion bar rear end for extra boot space :rolleyes:

i think my 3 biggest complaints would be

-No LSD

-torsion bar rear end

-horrible cheep feeling plastic fuel cover

[CRXY01]

I found the CTR quite impressive, would like a longer test drive to have a true appreciation.
-Driving position is great, no reach for the gear knob
-Vision of dials was fantastic, for me at 6ft
-The seats I found really comfortable
-The interior style I'm quite a fan of
-The rear seats have a huge amount of room
-The engine seems even more happy to rev than the DC5R
-Nothing like hearing a car at 8,000RPM
-The vision out the back window was reasonable, better than CRX genII
-The accessories are reasonable compared to the price of competitors.

Not a fan of.
-The door handles they feel cheap
-The fuel cap looks cheap
-No LSD, they say traction control will sort that!!LOL

The dealer would not negotiate on price! Would only allow short test drives, which is poor when your trying to decide on a purchase.

Compared to the Golf GTI
Better
-Driving feel
-The engine feels like more fun, GTI I find a little boring!
-The seats
-Interior style
-Gear box
Worse
-Plastic handles, fuel cap
-Low down torque

[CRXY01]

Don't get me wrong the golf is nice but is just so dam boring compared to the CTR.
plus you need to upgrade to leather purely because the standard cloth trim is just awful.

Honda claim that the CTR doesn't need an LSD due to the new traction control system. I think they are seriously wrong and torsion bar rear end for extra boot space :rolleyes:

i think my 3 biggest complaints would be

-No LSD

-torsion bar rear end

-horrible cheep feeling plastic fuel cover


I have to agree with CTR coupe.
Its these little things that have let the CTR down slightly, but I think they have still delivered a better car than the others.
No LSD is a step back wards- its what made the DC2R a fantastic car
Torsion bar rear end seem like all the rage- I'm yet to be convinced.
Those cheap plastic parts lack a finish quality, some of the euro hatches have!

[aaronng]

no i havent driven the GTi, that is all in comparison to my dc5r.

from what i had read about the CTR it was supposed to have more low down torque than other k20's but didnt feel that way to me.

might have to head to VW dealer and take a GTi for a spin i think

Remember that the CTR is meant to be much heavier than your DC5R. So any gains in low RPM would probably be negated by the extra weight.

[SeverAMV]

sounds like it'd rev like a motorbike. i think the new type r's k series motor is probably better than the old ones, but you wont know it until you remove the exhaust restrictions. the car does comply with LEVII emission restrictions, doesnt it? thats enough to create a 10% drop in power in some cars. its kinda like rocket science, the faster the gases go out, the faster the rocket moves (in this case the type r). wonder if a dealer would kill me if i drag launched it on a test drive...

[ON XTC]

its a nice car but if i bought one, i dont think id modify it.

[matt]

Remember that the CTR is meant to be much heavier than your DC5R. So any gains in low RPM would probably be negated by the extra weight.

oh yah i realise that, but these statements seemed to be in comparison to dc5r

[SeverAMV]

thats probably because the civic type r pops up when the dc5r has been axed

[locote]

Took one out for a drive today (i know took me a few weeks)
Straightline speed my B18c EG would destroy it!!!.
But it handless like a dream!!!
Im prob gona get one with GF later on..
But gona keep EG:)

[MKI4EVA]

Not sure what ppl who say "looks better in real life" were on but it looked worse for me seeing a silver one at parra.

Seat position and seats just didn't work together in tradition of hondas.

not even worth wasting your time to go and tyre kick it.

[sitta]

Anyone from the dealership here? i cant seem to find the front headlight size low and high beam, im planning to get hid but i dont know what size to get

[NeoNode]

Anyone from the dealership here? i cant seem to find the front headlight size low and high beam, im planning to get hid but i dont know what size to get
Have you consulted your owners manual yet?
Surely the manual will tell you such information.

[sitta]

Have you consulted your owners manual yet?
Surely the manual will tell you such information.

Cant find it. Its not very useful, its full of general stuff not detailed

just for the information of everyone, maybe you have heard of the third gear problem in thie car and it does exist. Im having this problem maybe 1-2 times a day and its very very annoying. The third gear either grinds and u hav eto press the clutch again and stick the third gear all the way through or the third gear sometimes pop back out. so annoyin@ but ill see how long i can live with it

[Wazza]

Cant find it. Its not very useful, its full of general stuff not detailed

just for the information of everyone, maybe you have heard of the third gear problem in thie car and it does exist. Im having this problem maybe 1-2 times a day and its very very annoying. The third gear either grinds and u hav eto press the clutch again and stick the third gear all the way through or the third gear sometimes pop back out. so annoyin@ but ill see how long i can live with it

Have you questioned your dealer about the problem? I asked the question to the ''experts'' on the Honda Aus Forum on Thursday night and received no reply.... Just hoping my car doesn't have the same problem, when it finally gets here that is....

[aaronng]

Cant find it. Its not very useful, its full of general stuff not detailed

just for the information of everyone, maybe you have heard of the third gear problem in thie car and it does exist. Im having this problem maybe 1-2 times a day and its very very annoying. The third gear either grinds and u hav eto press the clutch again and stick the third gear all the way through or the third gear sometimes pop back out. so annoyin@ but ill see how long i can live with it

It's usually in the manual right at the back with the bulb power ratings. Otherwise, ask civictyper.co.uk

[fasthonda]

According to the UK type R forums, Honda has yet to release any fix for the 3rd gear problem,although I've read that the problem on some cars eventually disappeared.

[Wazza]

According to the UK type R forums, Honda has yet to release any fix for the 3rd gear problem,although I've read that the problem on some cars eventually disappeared.

True that they have not yet released a fix, but Honda UK have at least admitted that there is a problem...

[UNLS1]

well if the gear box comes from japan whos fault is it, swindons or japans?

[MKI4EVA]

I think their trying to give the ave Joe the real Honda F1 racing experience.

1 Championship point is better than nothing.

http://www.formula1.com/results/team/

"Power of Dreams"

[UNLS1]

wats that got to do with the CTR?

[xenfacta]

saw a red one yesterday in the city.... does look better in real life but still doesnt do much for me.... still keen to drive one tho, mite change my opinion...

[Moya]

I love the car, but the fact they dont have double wishbone all round, Brembo's and not even a ****en LSD, I dont think this should be a Type R.

I think Honda forgot what Type R is after they released the NSX-R and DC2R.

[aaronng]

I love the car, but the fact they dont have double wishbone all round, Brembo's and not even a ****en LSD, I dont think this should be a Type R.

I think Honda forgot what Type R is after they released the NSX-R and DC2R.
This CTR was designed by Honda UK. So it's what the guys in the UK think is a Type R. :)

[MKI4EVA]

Type LS.

[UNLS1]

once again why do people think this car should have brembos???
its got 147kws ffs! have any of u actually drivin it and hit the brakes hard? its bloody fantastic!

I think the show ponies want look at me i got brembos!

Maybe if it had at least 250kw then u might need the stopping power!
the accord V6 has 177kws....its heavyer why doesnt it get brembos??
seen the brakes on the legend????
Fantastic but no brembos.

[ginganggooly]

once again why do people think this car should have brembos???
its got 147kws ffs! have any of u actually drivin it and hit the brakes hard? its bloody fantastic!

I think the show ponies want look at me i got brembos!

Maybe if it had at least 250kw then u might need the stopping power!
the accord V6 has 177kws....its heavyer why doesnt it get brembos??
seen the brakes on the legend????
Fantastic but no brembos.

Why do you think it shouldn't have bremos??!
Perhaps you care to explain why the jap CTR and DC5R both have brembos and an LSD.

Anyway, aside from an H badge, what in the flying fark do Legends and Accords have to do with a type-r civic???

[UNLS1]

Why do you think it shouldn't have bremos??!
Perhaps you care to explain why the jap CTR and DC5R both have brembos and an LSD.

Anyway, aside from an H badge, what in the flying fark do Legends and Accords have to do with a type-r civic???

what im saying is WHY does the CTR need brembos?? have u drivin it yet and had a go at the brakes??? Its not a massive power heavy car why does it need brembos????

ITs not a jap car its from UK its not the end of the world coz it doesnt have brembos. 147kws dont need brembos.

[xtercii]

If that's your logic, we can then probably starting arguing road cars don't need X amount of power and sports cars and supercars are redundant and unnecessary as there is no way we can legally use all the power on the road.

[obsessionz]

Hi guys has anyone actually driven the new ctr... im interested to see how it actually handles... how hard can you take corners in it etc? cause apparently you cant change the suspension in it ... you cant access the front suspension top mounts as its covered up? i had a look inside the engine bay ... and theres no way of getting to them??

[e240]

I don't quite follow your logic...

My bike makes only 74kw ATW, but its got monoblock brembos. LOL.

Frankly, there are alot of OEM brakes out there that are more than sufficient for most purposes but if I'm paying >40K for a hatchback, I'd expect some bling factor and Brembos are just synonymous to a performance car.

and a performance FWD without an LSD? Just what were they thinking?


once again why do people think this car should have brembos???
its got 147kws ffs! have any of u actually drivin it and hit the brakes hard? its bloody fantastic!
.

[SeverAMV]

apparently a set of genuine brembo brakes cost around $16000, and thats just the trade price. so sticking brembos into a sub-$40000 car will kinda kill its price advantage.

[ginganggooly]

Well, if honda UK is using the Accord v6 and legend as their collective performance yardstick, i can see what the issue is.

[ginganggooly]

apparently a set of genuine brembo brakes cost around $16000, and thats just the trade price. so sticking brembos into a sub-$40000 car will kinda kill its price advantage.

Think lad, there is more than just one model of brembo caliper.

[industrie]

you do realise that honda australia has always down graded the cars here regardless based on the power decrease because of fuel availablity and option availablility...so I dont know why a few people complain that it doesnt have LSD and brembos etc are going to change what Honda Australia prefers in the larger segment...yes its nice to have those things but it adds costs to the overall package and that doesnt seem like a good business strategy for the company itself

[obsessionz]

just go out and buy some brembos don't think you would bother anyways .... the car is way to heavy and looks like a Peugeot. I went to the dealers in my mates real civic type R (EK9) to look at it ... and wasnt impressed at all.. the car is very high... and not wide... the seats are bulky side bits arent high its more for everday driving...

If you want a car to modify this car isnt for you. the exhaust at the back make it hard to modify suspension is a nightmare to get to ... don't even think they can be changed... the plastic fuel cover looks cheap.... and the stereo cant be changed to an aftermarket one as its built it... its pretty much get in and drive...

[SeverAMV]

Think lad, there is more than just one model of brembo caliper.

well the base model of brembos can be bought for around $6000, but for honda to stick them in, they'd still end up doing testing/R&D for it, which brings up the price a notch. altho if the CTR did come with brembos and cost only a tad more, i'm sure a lot of people would buy it, but the sub $40000 price tag is more attractive to people, and so far it seems like its one of the few japanese front wheel drive sports cars still available, which kinda puts it in competition with the toyota sportivo range, and as mentioned in this thread, the golf. most people probably wouldnt care less about brembos unless CTR turns into GTR and gains an extra 400kg.

[aaronng]

I don't quite follow your logic...

My bike makes only 74kw ATW, but its got monoblock brembos. LOL.

It's all about the power-to-weight ratio. :)

[aaronng]

Think lad, there is more than just one model of brembo caliper.

LOL, so you want 1-pot Brembo calipers? Those things are like stock calipers except for the red paint and the word "B-R-E-M-B-O".

If you went for large Brembos (or any brand of 2-4 pot calipers), the car would then need a bigger master cylinder.

[ginganggooly]

LOL, so you want 1-pot Brembo calipers? Those things are like stock calipers except for the red paint and the word "B-R-E-M-B-O".

If you went for large Brembos (or any brand of 2-4 pot calipers), the car would then need a bigger master cylinder.

Don't be childish now, Mr. Moderator.
How in god's green earth you've managed to extrapolate a single piston brembo from "more than one model of brembo" I won't understand.


Something like this would have been fine:
http://www11.ocn.ne.jp/%7Ekuroki/kit.jpg

And they don't cost $16k either.

[aaronng]

Don't be childish now, Mr. Moderator.
How in god's green earth you've managed to extrapolate a single piston brembo from "more than one model of brembo" I won't understand.

Something like this would have been fine:
[IMG]http://www11.ocn.ne.jp/%7Ekuroki/kit.jpg[IMG]

And they don't cost $16k either.
I didn't say that they cost $16k. But that setup in the pic will cost about $5k at least and Honda still has to retool to produce the brackets, which will cost a lot since they don't sell as many Type Rs as they do regular VTi models. Add that to the cost of a new master cylinder. So in the end, would you buy a CTR with 148kW, torsion beam suspension, Brembos and no LSD for $48000 OTR? Or will you instead complain about the price and how the DC5R was being sold for $49999 on the road with A/C, with LSD, rear double wishbone suspension and a track-orientated chassis?

[UNLS1]

I didn't say that they cost $16k. But that setup in the pic will cost about $5k at least and Honda still has to retool to produce the brackets, which will cost a lot since they don't sell as many Type Rs as they do regular VTi models. Add that to the cost of a new master cylinder. So in the end, would you buy a CTR with 148kW, torsion beam suspension, Brembos and no LSD for $48000 OTR? Or will you instead complain about the price and how the DC5R was being sold for $49999 on the road with A/C, with LSD, rear double wishbone suspension and a track-orientated chassis?

very very well said! :thumbsup:

i also think a 'few' and i mean just a few people like the 'brembo's coz of the bling factor...also how many owners of older type R's and type S's have put brembos on their cars???

[aaronng]

People always want what they can't have. If the UK CTR came with Brembos for the same $39,990 ($42000 OTR), then everyone would be complaining about the lack of LSD then.

[UNLS1]

i know and most of the time its people who have no intention whatso ever on buying a new car! Some prob have never even bought a new car...

tell me does the XR5, VXR, Golf Gti have brembos and LSD???

[MKI4EVA]

i know and most of the time its people who have no intention whatso ever on buying a new car! Some prob have never even bought a new car...

tell me does the XR5, VXR, Golf Gti have brembos and LSD???


aiya tai low...............let aarong jai do the arguing...........your making honda dealers look bad.

[BlitZ]

fark that... sell me a festiva with a type r badge..

its a hot hatch... good car.. takes me from a to b...

I'd hit one.. its the best..

[BlitZ]

lets wait until they do the track comparo with this civic R and its precessors.....

the Type r's are meant to be race cars from the box...
type r's having a racing heritage... lets see if this is a dud then..

with everythign aside.. i am very skeptical it will be faster or greater than any R's in the past...

With all said and done we just have to wait until someone could do a proper comparo

[BlitZ]

i know and most of the time its people who have no intention whatso ever on buying a new car! Some prob have never even bought a new car...

tell me does the XR5, VXR, Golf Gti have brembos and LSD???



Its about bettering a previous model..

Are the latest XR5, VXR and golf GTi better than its precessor with more features and punch? yes

[UNLS1]

aiya tai low...............let aarong jai do the arguing...........your making honda dealers look bad.

or could it be u makin the car look bad and having no idea about the current car market???

I cant believe this car is getting such a flogging over such little things, are u in the market for a new hot hatch MK14EVA?? have u drivin the CTR? have u driven the golf and the XR5???
I think we are lucky to have this car, but its not good enough so maybe we should all tell honda that dont want it at all coz its not up to jap spec one, its got no lsd, no brembos and its not a true type R!

There are heaps of die hard fans that arnt happy, i also think alot of them are canning the car and havnt even driven it, or have no intention of even buying it or a new car for that matter!

What about all the new people this car has bought to the honda product?? What about the customers that we have had that are young and some middle age that have taken delivery of their new CTR and love it to bits???? not one of them have come to us saying blah it needs LSD and brembos, they have come to us saying Omg its such a thrill to drive and im so happy i bought it....

what would they know anyways....

:)

[ginganggooly]

i know and most of the time its people who have no intention whatso ever on buying a new car! Some prob have never even bought a new car...

tell me does the XR5, VXR, Golf Gti have brembos and LSD???


No, but they have more power, more torque, more capacity, a turbo and similar weight. I think they're justified in their price.

Incidently, you left out the Megane 225 with brembos, turbo, less weight, more power and more torque (for about 40k drive away), and the mps 3, with the LSD, also available for similar money.

[ginganggooly]

People always want what they can't have. If the UK CTR came with Brembos for the same $39,990 ($42000 OTR), then everyone would be complaining about the lack of LSD then.

Thanks for your take on consumer psychology.

We're in the situation here where we can see a civic that is manufactured in the pacific, has the LSD, has the brembos, has 20-odd extra kw, is lighter, faster and also carrying the same name and same label. I think we've every right to feel shafted with the UK built ctr hatch.

If Honda sees that the enthusiast community is happy to have the wool pulled over their eyes with the UK built CTR, they'll keep supplying the bastardised little rice rocket, and you can expect more of the same contempt from them in future models to be released.

From a commercial perspective, I'd be interested to see the difference in manufacturing and delivery costs between the UK built CTR and JDM CTR.

[UNLS1]

i dont believe honda wanted the CTR to have the most power and torque in the first place. Honda didnt want to join the turbo wagon, they wanted the raw n/a power.

my bad for leaving out the megane but i havnt driven that one yet..and i think in the long run the CTR will have a better resale. Im not going to start on the french cars. I also think that the CTR will end up havin much better sales figures than the megane also.

[UNLS1]

From a commercial perspective, I'd be interested to see the difference in manufacturing and delivery costs between the UK built CTR and JDM CTR.


i agree with u on that one!

[aaronng]

Yeah, labour in the UK is much higher than in Japan. The JDM CTR costs about AU$27-28,000.

[e240]

I think we are lucky to have this car, but its not good enough so maybe we should all tell honda that dont want it at all coz its not up to jap spec one, its got no lsd, no brembos and its not a true type R!

I think you're missing the point here as it sounds like you work for Honda.
If Honda is giving the car for a song, yes, then I believe there's nothing to complain about, but the car is hardly cheap at 40K, and Honda AU is just banking on the Type R Badge to sell the car.

One does not need to be in the market with intention to purchase, if the car is appealing enough, it would start to compel people to think about buying it.

While the UK Type R will appeal to some, it will not appeal to others. Myself, I would not even consider this car because there's really nothing special about ti other than the Badge. I wouldn't mind testing one to see if it changes my mind, but I think the Honda dealer near my home thinks I'm a poor kid cause drive a boom boom EG civic and would never give me a test drive.....LOL.

[slipangle]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I think the reason why there seems to be so much emotion about this new CTR is that a lot of ppl have invested a lot of their goodwill in to Type R which has been borne about by an appreciation for cars such as the DC2R (and maybe to a lesser extent, the AU DC5R (but that's a whole can of worms there)). When Honda no longer delivers on something we've invested in in the past (both emotionally and financially), then we feel betrayed that our beliefs can be so easily dismissed for the sake of what Honda believes will bolster their bottom line by raking in more of the masses.

So what is it about Type R which manages to evoke such emotion and a faithful following that makes this new CTR so grating for people like me?. Well, when I sit back and think about the amount of effort that Honda had put in to the DC2R, and I mean the minute detail things, I can see that a bunch of Honda people really devoted a LOT of thought and effort in to feel, performance, and dynamic factors that are most likely irrelevant to 90% of drivers. I like that a lot. It's the same reason why Rolex makes diver's watches that can go to depths that most people wouldn't even dream to venture. Conversely, the new CTR instead places a LOT of thought and effort into compromising a package to suit the 90% of drivers who couldn't give two tosses as to why the car is not fitted with an LSD.

What does that tell me about Honda being an exceptional company full of clever engineers? (or so the advertising goes). They may well have had their best brains work on this CTR, but the end result smacks you in the face that the engineers just conceded to the bean counters and the PR men who think they can sell this car off spin and advertising, and the red H...cos... no one really cares whether it's faster, or lighter or cleverer than the last one, so long as we can get enough people to think they're sharing something with Jenson Button through marketing words and pictures, we'll make a mint!.

I'm more of the opinion that if Honda can win me over with technical accomplishment, then they can have my money, and all the money from people who will look at what they've created with a respect from a technical accomplishment viewpoint as opposed to just applying engineering in the fields of marketing and advertising to appeal to those that would be impressed by red starter buttons instead of (in my opinion) more impressive things like moving the gearlever's centre of mass back and downwards for mass centralisation and reducing the CoG.

In the past (as Honda Japan does now), we see a whole load of technical data and detail describing what changes they've made and how and why. I don't see any of these sort of details with the new UK CTR. Is it because they don't see that boasting about saving money with a torsion beam rear setup and the omission of an LSD cos "they can get away with it" would make very good text?.

I think if we just sit back and say, aww...ok, we should just be thankful that we get anything at all, we end up getting what we settle for. i.e. mediocrity. I won't buy in to that. We know Honda can do better. It's just that we can't get our hands on it...

[ginganggooly]

slipangle hit the nail square on the head; the new aussie delivered ctr represents a pretty cynical exercise in marketing and badge engineering. I can't help but feel let down that Honda hands us this car, tells us it's a type-r and expects us to suck it up hook, line and fishing sinker.
My guess is that Honda don't really care if they alienate the enthusiast community, because it ain't where the money is. If nothing else, it's a pity they don't bring of the jap CTR as a hero model...

[UNLS1]

its good to see that different point of view! i guess in a way ive been bought up on different markets and ive had/owned alot of V8 cars and moving to hondas was a lil hard.

I guess im also excited to have an exciting car as for the last 3 years ive been here there hasnt been any exciting cars at all. (i didnt find the type S teg that great)

I missed the boat selling all the old ones but thats the way it is! i was in V8 land back then!

[panda[cRx]]

If nothing else, it's a pity they don't bring of the jap CTR as a hero model...

yeah they are gonna bring out the jap ctr when they are already selling FOUR variations of the same chasis? australia is too small of a market to be able to support 2 type R's at the same time, especially when we already have the civic sport in the sedan line up

another thing is many honda owners have been demanding a decent hatch, seeing as we havent really had anything good since the EK4 in aust.
It may not be perfect but it fits that mould. the FN2 will be suffiecnt to most peoples needs and will satisfy most ppl bar the weekend racers. While the car might not match some people's expectations of the Type R badge, honda aust will have no probs selling their allotment of the FN2.

oh and people keep mentioning the megane in comparison..... i have heard so many horror stories of engines dying and various quality control issues from both ex owners and from dealers its not funny. it'd be ashamed if honda put out something like that

[e240]

Actually, if they brought the Japanese Civic Type R in, I would put a deposit for it straight away.

[UNLS1]

Actually, if they brought the Japanese Civic Type R in, I would put a deposit for it straight away.

just a few more thousand deposits and we mite get one! (per state):D

[SeverAMV]

No, but they have more power, more torque, more capacity, a turbo and similar weight. I think they're justified in their price.

did you ever think that this also justifies their need for brembos? CTR doesnt have more power, more torque, more capacity, nor a turbo, hence it wont build up enough inertia to need brembo brakes. a formula 1 driver tested the CTR on the track, he felt that it was fun and felt like a Type R if you kept it above 5000rpm, so you cant really complain until you start pushing it that hard, and if its good enough for an F1 driver, why should we complain?

so far most of the problems seem liveable. its not like the engine is gonna drop out and flip the car whilst driving at 60km/h, which is the target audience, people who dont want a fast car but wouldnt mind a car with a bit of sportyness.

you also cant really compare JDM Civic to AUDM Civic, because their car might be cheaper, but it costs them around $2000 for the first 3 years rego, and then another $2000 or so for every other 2 years of rego, so they need a lower price to appeal. we pay half that, if even that for rego over here.

that and the government would probably find a way to make a killing out of it. ie. The Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution would also cost around $40000 if mitsubishi dealers didnt have to comply it thru SEVS (from what i hear, this was brought in by the government, so they have to), so even if we got the JDM CTR, it would cost $40000 if not more. most people would probably flame my stupidity for this, but as far as i am aware, there's also a rule that states that you can no longer import a vehicle if a vehicle of the same chassis is already available locally from the factory.

that and i dont think anyone would want to import it anyway. with the sevs importing scheme, last time i checked, dealers have to pay $20k to buy the licence to import the vehicle, plus pay to have models of the vehicle crash tested (so you'd probably end up forking out $81000 to buy three CTRs to have them smashed to bits), then they have to pay a rather large chunk of the sale price of the vehicle for Sevs as well. So thats like $100k before you even start selling a car that most people wouldnt pay for, because honestly, if people wanted power, why fork out $40000 for a 200bhp car when for the same price, or less, you could import an Evo VI, GTR34, GT-T, RX7, etc.?

We could just conclude that the Type R is a safer sports car for its price bracket, designed on allowing people to have a bit of fun with minimal chance of wrapping it around a pole like most people seem to do when they get their hands on a high powered turbo rwd.

personally, i think fwd is more fun, but thats just my opinion.

[mpd076-chuck]

My non-car friends all like the CTR, it seems to be getting that mass market appeal.

As much as the JDM FD2 sedan is a better performance drivers car than our CTR FN2 (haven't driven them but it seems that way), I am not sure the sedan would have had as much mass market appeal.

Sure us Type R/Honda fans would love it, heck if the FD2 came here I'd sell a kidney, but I think the hatch is appealing to the broader Aus market.

What I don't understand is that the JDM FD2 is $13000 cheaper, that's a huge profit margin Honda AU could be making even for selling less cars.

[bennjamin]

What I don't understand is that the JDM FD2 is $13000 cheaper, that's a huge profit margin Honda AU could be making even for selling less cars.


Probably mostly due to the fact its made in Japan (no need to ship overseas) and that is the general "price" of cars over there compared to here ? Im sure if such a car was released in AU , without honda making such a big profit the price would be similar ( to the FN2) or more.

[mpd076-chuck]

Re: Brembos... DC2R has single piston OEM brakes and IIRC it out stopped every car in Motor's BYFB in 2000.

Re: LSD... VSA better for road-biased, LSD most likely better for track-biased (helps stop inside wheel spinning on corner exit).

[e240]

a formula 1 driver tested the CTR on the track, he felt that it was fun and felt like a Type R if you kept it above 5000rpm, so you cant really complain until you start pushing it that hard, and if its good enough for an F1 driver, why should we complain?
.

Hello...Marketing, these guys get paid millions to say these things and then they're probably given 2 or 3 for personal use.

You have to probably take out a loan to buy yours.

And you raised a good point, I rather fork out 40K to get an Evo than the new CTR (which other than looking like a UFO, has nothing special about it)

[mpd076-chuck]

Marketing alert... just like the Honda video with FN2 versus EP3, where the FN2 appears to be whipping the EP3 easily through corners. On the track you generally pull away very slowly from similar cars, it's not usually that simple.

If the FN2 does actually do that then I should eat my words, however The Stig's laptimes weren't that fast, so I just don't believe that video. (This is not FN2 bashing, it's marketing bashing! For those with FN2's enjoy them!)

[BlitZ]

I remember the good old days when the R was sold.. :

thinner glass for lighter weight
options radio
no sun roof
semi seam welded, strengthened chasis
LSD for the track
independent suspension
close ratio 5 speed
no deadening

It was even advertised as a race car in a box. Known for its racing heritage.

Now its got a racing start button eheheh..


There is nothing wrong with the car... just that the definition of type R is as defined by WIKI :

The design of Type R ("R" for "Racing") models was originally focused on race conditions, with an emphasis on minimizing weight, and maximizing performance potential (e.g. engine tuning, suspension set-up, etc). Thus, Type R models were first conceived for racetracks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racetrack).


One day my children are gonna say, "Daddy, the truck driver is here with the type r 1 tonner to deliver the fridge".


I cant state enough there is not 1 single thing wrong wiht the car. Its just that the type r marque will never be remembered in AUS as a race car in a box, designed for speed, handling and rawness. This is a shame.
Nevertheless this is a great car and should sell well.

Its really a shame that an AUS type r will never be on par with a JDM R. makes me kinda sad ;( (Back to buying a dc2r).

[ginganggooly]

Actually, if they brought the Japanese Civic Type R in, I would put a deposit for it straight away.

ditto.

[locote]

HEHEH so would i after seen it in action in a jap dvd...
As far as the UK spec one. Felt slower than a DC2r DC5r.
JDM CTR made the JDM DC5R look like a very slow heap in this DVD,,
It crossed the line virtualy neck to neck with a NSX TypeS,
leaving the S2000 and 350z miles back...

[locote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHW82ozR71M

[aaronng]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I think the reason why there seems to be so much emotion about this new CTR is that a lot of ppl have invested a lot of their goodwill in to Type R which has been borne about by an appreciation for cars such as the DC2R (and maybe to a lesser extent, the AU DC5R (but that's a whole can of worms there)). When Honda no longer delivers on something we've invested in in the past (both emotionally and financially), then we feel betrayed that our beliefs can be so easily dismissed for the sake of what Honda believes will bolster their bottom line by raking in more of the masses.

So what is it about Type R which manages to evoke such emotion and a faithful following that makes this new CTR so grating for people like me?. Well, when I sit back and think about the amount of effort that Honda had put in to the DC2R, and I mean the minute detail things, I can see that a bunch of Honda people really devoted a LOT of thought and effort in to feel, performance, and dynamic factors that are most likely irrelevant to 90% of drivers. I like that a lot. It's the same reason why Rolex makes diver's watches that can go to depths that most people wouldn't even dream to venture. Conversely, the new CTR instead places a LOT of thought and effort into compromising a package to suit the 90% of drivers who couldn't give two tosses as to why the car is not fitted with an LSD.

The CTR that is in the same family line as the DC2R that you love is the FD2. Not this FN2. This FN2 is a hot hatch. It is not a track weapon like the JDM-designed Type Rs. Why can't all of you understand this?

Complain that Honda Australia is not bringing in the FD2, that's fine. But there is no point complaining that the FN2 doesn't have Brembos or an LSD, because even in the original UK version, it is not an option!

[6ary]

Hi guys, I've just recently arrived from singapore and have tested and bought the new CTR, supposed to be delievered in 2 weeks. Compared to my base dc5 (although not much of a comparison) feels alot more planted on the corners. You can quote me on this, i would much rather have LSD, brembos, recaros and double wishbones than a climate controled glovebox and cruise control. I have driven a jdm dc5r and a b18 eg9, they are way more fun to drive. The reason i settled for the CTR is that i just can't stand 2nd hand cars and old interiors. Looks like the brembos and lsd will have to come out of my own pocket. Thanks Honda. Look out for a red CTR in melbourne soon!

[aaronng]

Hi guys, I've just recently arrived from singapore and have tested and bought the new CTR, supposed to be delievered in 2 weeks. Compared to my base dc5 (although not much of a comparison) feels alot more planted on the corners. You can quote me on this, i would much rather have LSD, brembos, recaros and double wishbones than a climate controled glovebox and cruise control. I have driven a jdm dc5r and a b18 eg9, they are way more fun to drive. The reason i settled for the CTR is that i just can't stand 2nd hand cars and old interiors. Looks like the brembos and lsd will have to come out of my own pocket. Thanks Honda. Look out for a red CTR in melbourne soon!

Come out to the Melb meets and show off your CTR when you get it!

[Moya]

Re: Brembos... DC2R has single piston OEM brakes and IIRC it out stopped every car in Motor's BYFB in 2000.

Re: LSD... VSA better for road-biased, LSD most likely better for track-biased (helps stop inside wheel spinning on corner exit).

oh ok, so Type R means Type Road. Thanks, I kept thinking Honda kept the same principals as the DC2R. My Bad.

Why are people standing up for this car soo badly? It's a nice car, but just admit it's not a Type R and we'll all be happy. Type R is crazy, stupid, fun, loud off the shelf track car. This thing isn't.

[aaronng]

oh ok, so Type R means Type Road. Thanks, I kept thinking Honda kept the same principals as the DC2R. My Bad.

Why are people standing up for this car soo badly? It's a nice car, but just admit it's not a Type R and we'll all be happy. Type R is crazy, stupid, fun, loud off the shelf track car. This thing isn't.

As I said, the Type R you fondly remember is the FD2 CTR.

[piassh]

I saw one CTR @ St George Hospital!!!!
Must be one of those doctors in there....

[mpd076-chuck]

oh ok, so Type R means Type Road. Thanks, I kept thinking Honda kept the same principals as the DC2R. My Bad.

Why are people standing up for this car soo badly? It's a nice car, but just admit it's not a Type R and we'll all be happy. Type R is crazy, stupid, fun, loud off the shelf track car. This thing isn't.

:thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn: :thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn: :thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn:

I'm not standing up for the car. I was stating facts.

Look at what I drive and have for 7 years. Read this whole thread and see what I have posted. Go to clubitr and look at the mess we made to today about CTR.

Why is it so hard for people (moya) to actually read whole threads before posting?

The fact is Honda Australia wanted a mass market appeal Type R. The fact is I want a track car. FN2 does not equal track car like DC2R.

[mpd076-chuck]

oh ok, so Type R means Type Road. Thanks, I kept thinking Honda kept the same principals as the DC2R. My Bad.

Why are people standing up for this car soo badly? It's a nice car, but just admit it's not a Type R and we'll all be happy. Type R is crazy, stupid, fun, loud off the shelf track car. This thing isn't.

So the facts I was stating show it to be more of a Road Car, rather than a Type R, and I'm supporting it somehow? Wouldn't that show I'm demonstrating it's a road car, not a track car? :thumbdwn:

[SeverAMV]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHW82ozR71M

lol at that! poor nsx, it looked like he had to slip stream a few laps. but that vid doesnt really mean that the civic is better than the nsx. tsukuba is a mid to low speed course, so where the civic had the advantage was with the low gear cornering, helped by the close ratio box. stick em on a higher speed circuit like ebisu and the nsx would own the civic. the only that shocked me about that vid was the s2000, the gear ratios were closer than the civics, and it still lost.

[NeoNode]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHW82ozR71M


lol at that! poor nsx, it looked like he had to slip stream a few laps. but that vid doesnt really mean that the civic is better than the nsx. tsukuba is a mid to low speed course, so where the civic had the advantage was with the low gear cornering, helped by the close ratio box. stick em on a higher speed circuit like ebisu and the nsx would own the civic. the only that shocked me about that vid was the s2000, the gear ratios were closer than the civics, and it still lost.
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70257

[fasthonda]

Autocar in the UK have driven the FD2.I think the car would be probably too hard for even the hardcore enthusiast.:rolleyes:It only really seems to be a track car according to the "First drive" impressions of the write up.
I wonder if the suspension set up is even harder than the DCR2 ?
A fantastic car but,seems to be quite harsh as an everyday car.
I wouldn't mine if Honda Australia imported a limited number for the hardcore enthusiasts,but I wouldn't be one of the buyers.:)

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Honda-Civic-2.0-i-VTEC-Type-R/226473/

[e240]

http://www.renault.com.au/docs/renaultsport/RSmeganeF1/RSmeganeF1.asp

Anytime over the FN2 and look ... BREMBOs!!!!! Hahaha...

[ginganggooly]

hehehe... i nearly bought one of the 5-door cup versions last month. far and away, the best stock fwd car i've ever driven. It actually felt more nimble than any of the modded dc2's and ek's i've driven over the years. heaps more usable grunt too. the only gripes i had were lousy plastics and the open diff.

in the end, the dealer wouldn't come to the party on the trade with the euro. so here i am. :honda:

[e240]

in the end, the dealer wouldn't come to the party on the trade with the euro. so here i am. :honda:

But but...brembos! & and LSD!!! LOL and almost the same price as the FN2...
So much for the Brembos will drive the cost up excuse from Honda.

[aaronng]

lol at that! poor nsx, it looked like he had to slip stream a few laps. but that vid doesnt really mean that the civic is better than the nsx. tsukuba is a mid to low speed course, so where the civic had the advantage was with the low gear cornering, helped by the close ratio box. stick em on a higher speed circuit like ebisu and the nsx would own the civic. the only that shocked me about that vid was the s2000, the gear ratios were closer than the civics, and it still lost.

What about Suzuka?

NSX Type S - 2:35.44
Evo VI RS - 2:36.50
RX-7 Type RS - 2:35.81
R34 GTR V-spec - 2:39.56

and....

FD2 CTR - 2:35.20

Yes, the CTR is fast. Because it has racing suspension. When tested even on the freeway, the passengers in the car were bouncing about.

[mpd076-chuck]

"When tested even on the freeway, the passengers in the car were bouncing about." lol

You Tube FTW

http://youtube.com/watch?v=osJRUhgWkpo

[slipangle]

Autocar in the UK have driven the FD2.I think the car would be probably too hard for even the hardcore enthusiast.:rolleyes:It only really seems to be a track car according to the "First drive" impressions of the write up.
I wonder if the suspension set up is even harder than the DCR2 ?
A fantastic car but,seems to be quite harsh as an everyday car.
I wouldn't mine if Honda Australia imported a limited number for the hardcore enthusiasts,but I wouldn't be one of the buyers.:)

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Honda-Civic-2.0-i-VTEC-Type-R/226473/

How timely that autocar review is. It summarises a lot of key issues and only makes me appreciate the JDM car even more.

Some interesting points;

- "wait for the boys at Swindon to pull their fingers out and offer us the much-mooted, full fat, Type-RR." Huh? anyone have any details?

- "But it’s also light; 1250kg, says Honda, making it 83kg lighter than the Brit Type-R we weighed six months ago."

-"the first one Litchfield got in his workshop was actually knocking out 238bhp at 8600rpm." That's approx 175kw.

- "there’s no sound deadening insulation here."

- "It steers more precisely and fluently than the Brit Type-R too, thanks to hydraulic rather than electric power assistance"

I suspect a large part of the track time gains (esp at Suzuka!) were a result of the tyre technology. Still, it is a very convincing package...and funnily enough, I don't find the DC2R's ride too harsh for public roads.

[MKI4EVA]

VERY FARK"N WELL SAID LAD!!!

nuff said - mods please close thread item NOT SOLD................HAHHAHAhahahha ROFL.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I think the reason why there seems to be so much emotion about this new CTR is that a lot of ppl have invested a lot of their goodwill in to Type R which has been borne about by an appreciation for cars such as the DC2R (and maybe to a lesser extent, the AU DC5R (but that's a whole can of worms there)). When Honda no longer delivers on something we've invested in in the past (both emotionally and financially), then we feel betrayed that our beliefs can be so easily dismissed for the sake of what Honda believes will bolster their bottom line by raking in more of the masses.

So what is it about Type R which manages to evoke such emotion and a faithful following that makes this new CTR so grating for people like me?. Well, when I sit back and think about the amount of effort that Honda had put in to the DC2R, and I mean the minute detail things, I can see that a bunch of Honda people really devoted a LOT of thought and effort in to feel, performance, and dynamic factors that are most likely irrelevant to 90% of drivers. I like that a lot. It's the same reason why Rolex makes diver's watches that can go to depths that most people wouldn't even dream to venture. Conversely, the new CTR instead places a LOT of thought and effort into compromising a package to suit the 90% of drivers who couldn't give two tosses as to why the car is not fitted with an LSD.

What does that tell me about Honda being an exceptional company full of clever engineers? (or so the advertising goes). They may well have had their best brains work on this CTR, but the end result smacks you in the face that the engineers just conceded to the bean counters and the PR men who think they can sell this car off spin and advertising, and the red H...cos... no one really cares whether it's faster, or lighter or cleverer than the last one, so long as we can get enough people to think they're sharing something with Jenson Button through marketing words and pictures, we'll make a mint!.

I'm more of the opinion that if Honda can win me over with technical accomplishment, then they can have my money, and all the money from people who will look at what they've created with a respect from a technical accomplishment viewpoint as opposed to just applying engineering in the fields of marketing and advertising to appeal to those that would be impressed by red starter buttons instead of (in my opinion) more impressive things like moving the gearlever's centre of mass back and downwards for mass centralisation and reducing the CoG.

In the past (as Honda Japan does now), we see a whole load of technical data and detail describing what changes they've made and how and why. I don't see any of these sort of details with the new UK CTR. Is it because they don't see that boasting about saving money with a torsion beam rear setup and the omission of an LSD cos "they can get away with it" would make very good text?.

I think if we just sit back and say, aww...ok, we should just be thankful that we get anything at all, we end up getting what we settle for. i.e. mediocrity. I won't buy in to that. We know Honda can do better. It's just that we can't get our hands on it...

[bennjamin]

rofl.......

reply on if interested !

*bans everyone*

[BlitZ]

couldnt have said it better...

I am wondering if all these backers of the type r have ever owned or tracked a type r... do it once and its in your blood for life



I can't speak for anyone else, but I think the reason why there seems to be so much emotion about this new CTR is that a lot of ppl have invested a lot of their goodwill in to Type R which has been borne about by an appreciation for cars such as the DC2R (and maybe to a lesser extent, the AU DC5R (but that's a whole can of worms there)). When Honda no longer delivers on something we've invested in in the past (both emotionally and financially), then we feel betrayed that our beliefs can be so easily dismissed for the sake of what Honda believes will bolster their bottom line by raking in more of the masses.

So what is it about Type R which manages to evoke such emotion and a faithful following that makes this new CTR so grating for people like me?. Well, when I sit back and think about the amount of effort that Honda had put in to the DC2R, and I mean the minute detail things, I can see that a bunch of Honda people really devoted a LOT of thought and effort in to feel, performance, and dynamic factors that are most likely irrelevant to 90% of drivers. I like that a lot. It's the same reason why Rolex makes diver's watches that can go to depths that most people wouldn't even dream to venture. Conversely, the new CTR instead places a LOT of thought and effort into compromising a package to suit the 90% of drivers who couldn't give two tosses as to why the car is not fitted with an LSD.

What does that tell me about Honda being an exceptional company full of clever engineers? (or so the advertising goes). They may well have had their best brains work on this CTR, but the end result smacks you in the face that the engineers just conceded to the bean counters and the PR men who think they can sell this car off spin and advertising, and the red H...cos... no one really cares whether it's faster, or lighter or cleverer than the last one, so long as we can get enough people to think they're sharing something with Jenson Button through marketing words and pictures, we'll make a mint!.

I'm more of the opinion that if Honda can win me over with technical accomplishment, then they can have my money, and all the money from people who will look at what they've created with a respect from a technical accomplishment viewpoint as opposed to just applying engineering in the fields of marketing and advertising to appeal to those that would be impressed by red starter buttons instead of (in my opinion) more impressive things like moving the gearlever's centre of mass back and downwards for mass centralisation and reducing the CoG.

In the past (as Honda Japan does now), we see a whole load of technical data and detail describing what changes they've made and how and why. I don't see any of these sort of details with the new UK CTR. Is it because they don't see that boasting about saving money with a torsion beam rear setup and the omission of an LSD cos "they can get away with it" would make very good text?.

I think if we just sit back and say, aww...ok, we should just be thankful that we get anything at all, we end up getting what we settle for. i.e. mediocrity. I won't buy in to that. We know Honda can do better. It's just that we can't get our hands on it...

[MKI4EVA]

or could it be u makin the car look bad and having no idea about the current car market???

I cant believe this car is getting such a flogging over such little things, are u in the market for a new hot hatch MK14EVA?? have u drivin the CTR? have u driven the golf and the XR5???

:)

shhh I wont tell if you don't.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/MKI4EVA/Z%20stuff/FittingSpoiler005.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/MKI4EVA/Mix%20Car/motorshow007.jpg

I can understand that you've probly seen more than your fair share of tyre kickers but I think you've beaten that "well are you in the car market!!! have you driven a new hot hatch" arguement to death now lets move on.

[UNLS1]

shhh I wont tell if you don't.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/MKI4EVA/Z%20stuff/FittingSpoiler005.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/MKI4EVA/Mix%20Car/motorshow007.jpg

I can understand that you've probly seen more than your fair share of tyre kickers but I think you've beaten that "well are you in the car market!!! have you driven a new hot hatch" arguement to death now lets move on.

lol nice ride, my mrs took delivery of hers yesterday in blueish silver :wave:
but auto :thumbdwn:

her brother takes delivery of the CTR tomorrow
*runs away

[SeverAMV]

What about Suzuka?

NSX Type S - 2:35.44
Evo VI RS - 2:36.50
RX-7 Type RS - 2:35.81
R34 GTR V-spec - 2:39.56

and....

FD2 CTR - 2:35.20

Yes, the CTR is fast. Because it has racing suspension. When tested even on the freeway, the passengers in the car were bouncing about.

yeah, lol, i just saw that vid, and now the car defends itself, lol

[MKI4EVA]

someone link this thread to honda.au............they need to see this shet.

If im free during the week i'm gonna call them and tyre kick them to death........hehehhehe.

Anyone want to org a cruise to honda.au? make it into the papers would be a crack up

[UNLS1]

yah a real crack up....

[industrie]

if honda australia didnt decide to bring out the sports civic model they could have had a chance to bring in the JDM civic type R in low numbers ...that would have been a great alternative...

[slipangle]

Hmmm... in the whole scheme of things, I don't think this thread will make that much of a difference to Honda Au as they will be vindicated in their decision by the fact that they will sell every one of these CTRs. I don't doubt that.

Though, I am very dubious of the overall effectiveness of this venture as an image enhancing exercise within an (admittedly) small group of dedicated enthusiasts.

[bennjamin]

this CTR is not aimed at a proper enthusiast at all -
not any kid here that is naturally progressing from say a DC2R to a more mature car etc is going to pick a new CTR over say a evo 9 etc .

[mpd076-chuck]

this CTR is not aimed at a proper enthusiast at all -
not any kid here that is naturally progressing from say a DC2R to a more mature car etc is going to pick a new CTR over say a evo 9 etc .

:thumbsup:
Well said, my sentiments exactly.

[Zilli]

i went and took a good look at one today at scotts artarmon... it really does look MUCH better in the metal... black with red interior, the seats were a bit more for fat arses than my car, and one thing i really truly hated was that i sat so high in the car, felt like i was sitting on it not in it... but then it is a hatchback...

the little luxuries were very very tempting, like dual zone cc, cruise control and all that crap... but reading this thread now, now LSD??? and you put a R badge on it... that must be why it costs to get the stickers down the side.

It would have to be a tremendous performer to win me over... stay tuned for the test drive this Saturday

[Spicey]

Yeah, looks like ive got a silver one to test Monday nite, ill post up what I think

[yfin]

Just read the Aug Motor magazine with the test of the CTR / Golf GTI and Mazda MPS. The golf wins the contest but they don't do any performance testing due to the weather.

Interestingly they say the CTR has a final drive ratio of 5.062. Pretty sure that is shorter than the DC5R which no doubt helps acceleration to 100kph.

Although they do say this:

Our performance testing was a wash-out, but I reckon Honda's official claims of 6.6 to 100km/h and 14.8 for 0-400m might require a wing and a prayer. Or two.

Golf feels much brisker off the mark than the Type R and punchier everywhere else. GTI has seamless, useable urge when squeezing part-throttle, pulls cleanly in any gear and absolutely kills the Type R for in-gear rolling acceleration and response.

[fasthonda]

Wow, they make the Golf GTI sound like a power machine!The Megane RS,Astra VXR,Focus XR5,have a faster in gear acceleration and are quicker over the 1/4 mile than the GTI.I mean ,really 15.3sec for the 1/4 mile by the GTI (as quoted by some reviews)is rather pedestrian for a turbo charged car.If someone checks out the EVO Mag.issue where they test the Civic Type R practically every in-gear acceleration of the GTI is slower than all the other competitors bar the Type R.
If the JDM CTR was available,that too would lose the comparison for the same reason or something like "Ouch the ride is very firm".

[aaronng]

That's the reason why I don't like Motor magazine and prefer Wheels instead. At least wheels posts all the times they get in addition to the driver, track, temperature and weather.

[fasthonda]

Drive.com.au have just done a write up(dated 11/07) on the Type R they gave it 4/5 stars the same as the Golf GTI.
The Madza 3 MPS scored 4.5 /5 stars.
This review was quite favourable to the CTR.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=41617&vf=2

[CTR Coupe]

Just read the Aug Motor magazine with the test of the CTR / Golf GTI and Mazda MPS. The golf wins the contest but they don't do any performance testing due to the weather.

Interestingly they say the CTR has a final drive ratio of 5.062. Pretty sure that is shorter than the DC5R which no doubt helps acceleration to 100kph.

Although they do say this:

Our performance testing was a wash-out, but I reckon Honda's official claims of 6.6 to 100km/h and 14.8 for 0-400m might require a wing and a prayer. Or two.

Golf feels much brisker off the mark than the Type R and punchier everywhere else. GTI has seamless, useable urge when squeezing part-throttle, pulls cleanly in any gear and absolutely kills the Type R for in-gear rolling acceleration and response.


the golf does seem quick off the mark due to the additional torque. (i think its almost 100lbs/in more)
The finish inside is just arse and the seats! i could go on all day about how bad the seats are.
You have to upgrade to leather just to get rid of the awful trim colors. an extra 3k expense.
To put it simply the golf is just boring, an A to B car with some stick when you want it.

and as far as i know yfin thats the correct FD ratio. Dc2r was 4.7 and the new type R is 5.062.

drove the golf for a half a day but Honda dealership was very protective of the Type R. I don't think they realized how serious we were until we started spec'ing one up in the office.
You can't sell a sports car if all you do is drive it in traffic and down some side streets.

If pure sales service sold cars then Volkswagen would have sold me a car. Even Audi gave us a S3 which is a $65k car for 2hrs without a chaperon.

The first dealer we went to said they weren't going to put a CTR demo car on the road. :confused:
how do they expect to sell cars if you can't test drive them.
Honda Australia really needs to pull its head out of its ass if they want to sell these cars.

[Spicey]

The first dealer we went to said they weren't going to put a CTR demo car on the road. :confused:
how do they expect to sell cars if you can't test drive them.
Honda Australia really needs to pull its head out of its ass if they want to sell these cars.

My mate had the same problem with his XR5, no Ford dealer down here had a demo! Every time they got one in someone bought it!

In the end he bought one just from magazine reviews, took nearly 6 months to get here but he loves every minute of driving it! And they are awesome, the sound, the feel, the torque! :thumbsup:

[slipangle]

Interesting comparison between the JDM and UK car;

http://www.crash.net/motoring/review~tid~399~id~15487~pid~0.htm

[UNLS1]

we have a demo, but we wont and i know 3 of my mates at other dealers will NOT give one to a customer for half a day, we must be in the car for a test drive.
The reasons are rather simple on why we wont let it out for half a day for a test drive without being present.

Same as ford next door with the XR5.

[ginganggooly]

Interesting comparison between the JDM and UK car;

http://www.crash.net/motoring/review~tid~399~id~15487~pid~0.htm (http://www.crash.net/motoring/review%7Etid%7E399%7Eid%7E15487%7Epid%7E0.htm)

taken from the article:


The JDM ride is still hard, but feels more compliant and better executed than it does in the UK car and, despite the hardcore rubber, there’s plenty of traction


“I had high hopes for the new version but, having driven it, I'm not sure if I like what it's become. In fact, I'm just not quite sure what it wants to be. I'm not complaining about the way it looks, it's well equipped and – if it weren’t for that ride – comfortable, with great seats and a very funky interior. But that's not what the Type-R should be about. There’s just something missing” I couldn’t agree more.



heh... oh dear

[MKI4EVA]

the only positive to come out of this is it'll get more softy's into the HONDA badge so one day they'll release some'n decent.



naaaaaaaaaaaaaaart!

[350G]

taken from the article:







heh... oh dear


Nice to point out the fact

[BlitZ]

I wonder if the times around the track would be worst in the new CTR as its got VSA and not LSD... positve side is that you proabably wont loose it as easily. Much more safer

[Tofu]

so....it's almost coming to 1 month since the CTR has been on sale.
have they made the target of 100 sales nationally?

[ginganggooly]

I wonder if the times around the track would be worst in the new CTR as its got VSA and not LSD... positve side is that you proabably wont loose it as easily. Much more safer

Interesting thing about VSA... it's easy to confuse it on wet, off-camber bends. I've had it throw it's hands up in the air in the Euro...
The issue is that when it does break loose, and gets confused, it doesn't allow you to get back on the throttle to correct the situation, so you end up losing control completely. nice hey :)
I drive around with it switched off most of the time now...

[Sidor]

so....it's almost coming to 1 month since the CTR has been on sale.
have they made the target of 100 sales nationally?

we will see the figure soon on Honda sales records on Honda web site at the beginning on Aug. First month could be promising for Honda ...
I would be interested to wait and see figure for the 2nd month

[UNLS1]

i know its out sold the type s integras sales for like a whole year in 06 lol, that wouldnt be hard though.

but with most dealers only getting 3 a month i think they would of got 100 easy, i know some dealers have a 2-4 month wait on some now.

[xenfacta]

Golf feels much brisker off the mark than the Type R and punchier everywhere else. GTI has seamless, useable urge when squeezing part-throttle, pulls cleanly in any gear and absolutely kills the Type R for in-gear rolling acceleration and response.


Wow, they make the Golf GTI sound like a power machine!The Megane RS,Astra VXR,Focus XR5,have a faster in gear acceleration and are quicker over the 1/4 mile than the GTI.I mean ,really 15.3sec for the 1/4 mile by the GTI (as quoted by some reviews)is rather pedestrian for a turbo charged car.If someone checks out the EVO Mag.issue where they test the Civic Type R practically every in-gear acceleration of the GTI is slower than all the other competitors bar the Type R.
If the JDM CTR was available,that too would lose the comparison for the same reason or something like "Ouch the ride is very firm".

most everyday driving is low rpm around town and suburbs, not at 10/10ths on a track. low down torque (which is something a well set up turbo engine has a lot of) makes the car feel punchier because of the instant push. we dont all live our lives next to a stopwatch.. how many owners of these cars will ever do a 1/4 mile run or take it to the track? the purpose of a street-oriented hot hatch is to feel quick around town to give that lil extra thrill.

now from what ive seen of the new type r, it is not a track car. if Honda want to cater to a hot hatch market this is what they have to deal with because its what a lot of potential buyers will base their decision on.

i know this is a Honda forum but it seems that people are dissing a review in which the CTR doesn't win but pointing out the reviews that praise it.. fair enough.. i know especially for the new owners its easy to get on the defensive but welcome to new car ownership.. some people hate ur car other love it..

[SeverAMV]

I wonder if the times around the track would be worst in the new CTR as its got VSA and not LSD... positve side is that you proabably wont loose it as easily. Much more safer

the VSA system will never outperform an LSD on a track. this is because the VSA system utilises the brakes to stabilise and link/synch the wheels together. LSDs dont need the brakes to do this, and thus are more stable and faster under acceleration out of a corner, or so the theory goes.


most everyday driving is low rpm around town and suburbs, not at 10/10ths on a track. low down torque (which is something a well set up turbo engine has a lot of) makes the car feel punchier because of the instant push. we dont all live our lives next to a stopwatch.. how many owners of these cars will ever do a 1/4 mile run or take it to the track? the purpose of a street-oriented hot hatch is to feel quick around town to give that lil extra thrill.

just because a car feels fast, doesnt necessarily mean its fast. just because a car is fast, doesnt necessarily mean its fast. know what i mean?

[aaronng]

the VSA system will never outperform an LSD on a track. this is because the VSA system utilises the brakes to stabilise and link/synch the wheels together. LSDs dont need the brakes to do this, and thus are more stable and faster under acceleration out of a corner, or so the theory goes.

Not really. The reason why LSD is better is because the LSD prevents wheelspin. VSA on the other hand recovers from wheelspin. So VSA will always be slower because wheelspin has to start first before VSA gets to work. That's why LSD is faster. :)

[bennjamin]

mechanical LSD FTW. None of this electronic aids to prevent you getting into or helping out of trouble....a LSD is made to drive in and out in the first place :)
Electronic aids = fool proof

[yfin]

Wow, they make the Golf GTI sound like a power machine!The Megane RS,Astra VXR,Focus XR5,have a faster in gear acceleration and are quicker over the 1/4 mile than the GTI.I mean ,really 15.3sec for the 1/4 mile by the GTI (as quoted by some reviews)is rather pedestrian for a turbo charged car.If someone checks out the EVO Mag.issue where they test the Civic Type R practically every in-gear acceleration of the GTI is slower than all the other competitors bar the Type R.
If the JDM CTR was available,that too would lose the comparison for the same reason or something like "Ouch the ride is very firm".

The comparison was between the MPS, GTI and CTR - not those other cars you mention. That fact is the CTR is expressed to be the slowest of the lot. If they thought the CTR was best they would have said so. But they didn't. They don't need timeslips to decide which car they prefer.

The GTI is hardly pedestrian and has achieved much better than 15.3 published. The last test I saw in Motor was 14.6 for the DSG and 0-100 in 6.5 (July 07). The manual is slower but the CTR is behind the GTI according to Motor anyway on pace.

[fasthonda]

The comparison was between the MPS, GTI and CTR - not those other cars you mention. That fact is the CTR is expressed to be the slowest of the lot. If they thought the CTR was best they would have said so. But they didn't. They don't need timeslips to decide which car they prefer.

The GTI is hardly pedestrian and has achieved much better than 15.3 published. The last test I saw in Motor was 14.6 for the DSG and 0-100 in 6.5 (July 07). The manual is slower but the CTR is behind the GTI according to Motor anyway on pace.

I was stating the FACT that the GTI is NOT the fastest TURBO hatch available,they made it sound such a hero that is was able to out accelerate(in gear) the NA Civic and yes ,I know the CTR was the slowest in the test,it is most likely going to be the slowest in any review we will read.
Talking about the comparison ,the MPS is faster than the Golf GTI,so there.:)And as for time slips ,of course it seemed to be a half arsed test so when testing performance vehicles no one wants to know about aceleration times,1/4 mile times,0-100kmh times etc:rolleyes:

[sitta]

CTR is not fast but its not about how fast it is. Same like a girl, you dont want to just sleep with them if you are looking for a seious relationship u need balance between look, bodyshape, personality and ofcourse performance :). Ugly looking girl can perform good as well you know

[fasthonda]

CTR is not fast but its not about how fast it is. Same like a girl, you dont want to just sleep with them if you are looking for a seious relationship u need balance between look, bodyshape, personality and ofcourse performance :). Ugly looking girl can perform good as well you know

I understand and agree what you are saying.I know it's not totally about how fast. :D

[Tofu]

LOL i was wondering when someone is going to make this car review comparison to dating girls/guys....

just buy the car you love, for those that have bought a CTR, why do you care what others on forums have to say about your car, or any car that one owns for that matter...

I would get called a pansy for buying a Mini Cooper S, but i don't care.
You don't need to get defensive or even bother what others have to say about your car, it's their opinion.

[panda[cRx]]

if honda australia didnt decide to bring out the sports civic model they could have had a chance to bring in the JDM civic type R in low numbers ...that would have been a great alternative...

the civic sport has been a great seller so far, i doubt honda would want to have lost those sales to keep a relative handful of hardcore enthusiasts happy

realistically i dont think honda will be releasing many hondas that will keep US happy. the market is different these days, the cars are all made of plastic and its all about cost cutting and safety etc.

gone are the days of noisey lightweight little beasts u can track on the weekend :(

[xenfacta]

just buy the car you love, for those that have bought a CTR, why do you care what others on forums have to say about your car, or any car that one owns for that matter...

exactly


I would get called a pansy for buying a Mini Cooper S, but i don't care.
You don't need to get defensive or even bother what others have to say about your car, it's their opinion.

u serious, i love the cooper s! was gonna get one but jus couldnt get the money together... i like the interior of the 2002-06 ones.. the new one just looks too busy.. that lil turbo engine would go pretty well but...

but anyways back to the CTR. at the end of the day, if u like it, buy it. thats all that matters... and no one said the GTi was the fastest (in gear its pretty damn good tho - although the chip makes it a lot better). its better balanced then the MPS tho... thats just a torque steering beast lol

[CTR Coupe]

we have a demo, but we wont and i know 3 of my mates at other dealers will NOT give one to a customer for half a day, we must be in the car for a test drive.

mate this is exactly my point. How is Honda supposed to compete with Volkswagen and Audi if they don't let the demos be driven privately? Is this protective attitude coming from Honda Australia or is it coming from dealership management?

I wanna see if the car fits in with my lifestyle not if it drives well when I drive it round the block. To be perfectly honest it turned me of the type R totally the way I was treated at the dealership.
I will probably be looking spending the 48k on second hand Audi S3 for the same sort of money as the Type R. The first impressions at the dealership totally killed it for me. especially after the sales staff slimed after some grandma interested in a 15,000 jazz after saying he was going to get the keys for us.


]

if honda australia didnt decide to bring out the sports civic model they could have had a chance to bring in the JDM civic type R in low numbers ...that would have been a great alternative...

the civic sport has been a great seller so far, i doubt honda would want to have lost those sales to keep a relative handful of hardcore enthusiasts happy

realistically i dont think honda will be releasing many hondas that will keep US happy. the market is different these days, the cars are all made of plastic and its all about cost cutting and safety etc.

gone are the days of noisey lightweight little beasts u can track on the weekend :(

even if the 4 door type R was around at the time the decision to bring in the sport was made i highly doubt they would have chosen it. being a 4 door car. On paper it would have been up against WRX, EVO and other 4 door sports cars. It doesn't make any sense why you would buy the "JDM" type R over these in a similar price bracket. at least the "Euro" Civic Type R is different looking to the plain Jane 4 door civics they are selling currently.
I'd actually prefer if they brought the standard 4 door hatch back from the UK the car would be perfect for my aunt who is looking for a new car. She has her eye on the 1 series BMW but its just garbage for a stupid amount of money. The build quality of the CTR is far superior however she wants 4 doors and automatic. I'm taking her to the Volkswagen dealership next week and hopefully she will see how much better the golf is than the 1 series after a test drive.

[Catcha]

Is the CTR limited to 800 vehicles for this year ???? as I walked in to my local honda dealer and thats what they told me ???? $44950RRP drive away