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Wazza
08-06-2007, 05:46 PM
After the CTR being shown to Dealers Principals last night in Queensland my dealer contacted me today with the information that the Civic Type R will be sold for $39,990 plus on road costs. Cars are likely to to arrive in Australia around the 13th of June and hopefully be delivered to the dealers by the 28th of June. The full specifications were also released to the Dealer Principals last night however my dealer had not yet received them from his principal. Does anyone else have any information about the specs?

misteR_bilzz
09-06-2007, 11:22 PM
Thanks for the info.. in reply to the second part of ur post theres been like 100 threads about the new civic type R, u could even go to google for more info.
We are getting the UK version which like always is poo compared to JDM sorry to be so blatant but it helps to search.

NightKids
10-06-2007, 03:47 AM
i don't recall any other threads stating that the Civic Type R is $39990 plus on roads... that's new news to me

misteR_bilzz
10-06-2007, 12:40 PM
which is why i said thanks for the info =)

d15z1SUX
10-06-2007, 12:56 PM
thats good value for money i say

industrie
10-06-2007, 02:24 PM
i think we should sticky this into the civic type R thread which has about 1000 posts in it already! but glad to hear the price out and sounds pretty reasonable!

Wazza
10-06-2007, 02:29 PM
Thanks for the info.. in reply to the second part of ur post theres been like 100 threads about the new civic type R, u could even go to google for more info.
We are getting the UK version which like always is poo compared to JDM sorry to be so blatant but it helps to search.


Yes I have viewed all threads, searched the UK Honda site etc etc and no offence but I would you would have to call me an idiot if I didn't already know that we were receiving the UK version. What I was referring to was if anyone has managed to view the full specification list that was handed to the Dealer Principals last Thursday, which is the final blueprint of the specifications the AUS version will have, in terms of which options from the GT model it will have ie dual zone climate control, cruise control, etc etc and which options/accessories will be available.

yfin
10-06-2007, 02:35 PM
I wouldn't buy one as it is way too heavy for the power it is producing. Anyone who recently bought a Civic Sport in the low $30s is probably kicking themselves.

MKI4EVA
11-06-2007, 10:46 AM
I wouldn't buy one as it is way too heavy for the power it is producing. Anyone who recently bought a Civic Sport in the low $30s is probably kicking themselves.

$7K difference in price

&

family 4 door sedan vs 2 door performance hatch.......... two different sets of priorities i think.

good to see it's under $40K

aaronng
11-06-2007, 11:46 AM
I wouldn't buy one as it is way too heavy for the power it is producing. Anyone who recently bought a Civic Sport in the low $30s is probably kicking themselves.

Great price I reckon. That puts it under the GTI, which you can only get at about $43,490 with no options. Once you option it up, that costs $50,000. The CTR might come with everything you would want in the car. And it's also lighter than the GTI (which is 1340kg), with similar power without using a turbo.

Tofu
11-06-2007, 11:57 AM
Manual Golf GTi with no options can be had for $38k-$39k

the price is ok...but still expect to be paying close to $45k after all the extras.
Plus as of July 1 2007, stamp duty on cars in QLD will raise from 2% to...

2 per cent for hybrid cars (unchanged)
3 per cent for four-cylinder vehicles
3.5 per cent for six-cylinder vehicles
4 per-cent for V8s and above

sitta
11-06-2007, 12:08 PM
with this money what you will get is a 3 door Gti with no option at all and it is still heavier than the type r. I think its a very good value for money

040501912
11-06-2007, 12:11 PM
same price as the DC5R back in the 2001 ish :)

only 500 are bring to Australia in the first batch mid 07 until next year
100 are in WA
400 on the rest of the state

be quick guys :)

matt
11-06-2007, 12:53 PM
same price as the DC5R back in the 2001 ish :)


dc5rs were 42990 + 2k for A/C + on roads.
but recaros and LSD were standard

yfin
11-06-2007, 01:04 PM
The Civic may slightly weigh less than the Golf (35kg) but look at the difference in torque figures between the two vehicles. I find it hard to believe the Civic Type R can do 0-100 in 6.6 seconds given the weight and power figures. Something doesn't add up.

2002 TeGgY
11-06-2007, 01:05 PM
^^^ i agree...

040501912
11-06-2007, 01:10 PM
that is an official CLAIMED to be 6.6 could be faster or slower :p

yfin
11-06-2007, 01:17 PM
that is an official CLAIMED to be 6.6 could be faster or slower :p

Yeah I know it is claimed. I am interested to see what car magazines achieve. I am tipping they will get figures in the 7-7.4 second range. I think when Honda got that figure it was on a freezing cold day in the UK with a very fit example with 50,000kms on board, 40kg driver - and slightly downhill. ;) Happy to eat my words on this when Wheels or Motor do tests.

fasthonda
11-06-2007, 01:31 PM
At $39,990,the CTR is not really doing anything competitive price wise,however we must wait for the specification/options that will be available.
Also ,I have yet to see the 6.6 sec figure in any of the reviews I have read and quite frankly,I don't expect to see that figure in any upcoming Aussie test.

matt
11-06-2007, 02:07 PM
Also ,I have yet to see the 6.6 sec figure in any of the reviews I have read and quite frankly,I don't expect to see that figure in any upcoming Aussie test.

are you saying you havent seen that proved or havent seen that as a listed spec?
cos thats what honda are claiming
http://www.civictyper.com.au/?WT.ac=HP_CTR07
click on the "in Brief" and it lists that spec.

fasthonda
11-06-2007, 02:29 PM
are you saying you havent seen that proved or havent seen that as a listed spec?
cos thats what honda are claiming
http://www.civictyper.com.au/?WT.ac=HP_CTR07
click on the "in Brief" and it lists that spec.

Haven't seen it proved.I don't think anyone on the British Civic Type R forums that actually own one, have managed to achieve 6.6sec.
A more likely figure that I have read about is 7.2secs.
The 1/4 mile figure seems to be around 15.3secs -I've seen this figure in the EVO mag.

kyle
11-06-2007, 02:56 PM
The 1/4 mile figure seems to be around 15.3secs -I've seen this figure in the EVO mag.

Lol thats shit! I did that in my d-series Coupe. Hahahaha.

matt
11-06-2007, 02:57 PM
cools, yeah manufacturer claims are always faster, i guess it helps that they can launch at redline as many times as they like and not worry about paying for broken stuff

Zdster
11-06-2007, 05:01 PM
I wouldn't buy one as it is way too heavy for the power it is producing. Anyone who recently bought a Civic Sport in the low $30s is probably kicking themselves.

I disagree. As someone else said the the market for the two different cars is fairly different in my mind.

040501912
11-06-2007, 05:02 PM
cools, yeah manufacturer claims are always faster, i guess it helps that they can launch at redline as many times as they like and not worry about paying for broken stuff

i wish i can do that, but thats are more likely true .. :p
but it said its has 3 Syncro gears on this on 1 2 3 look like built for drag!!

yfin
11-06-2007, 05:32 PM
I disagree. As someone else said the the market for the two different cars is fairly different in my mind.

I always find the "different market" argument interesting. Why a car appeals to someone is not necessarily rigid and does not always follow the 2 versus 4 door, sporty or not sporty rules. I can easily see someone interested in both the Sport and the Civic Type R and then walking away with the R. Price is going to be the biggest factor in that equation not who the car is marketed to.

Zdster
11-06-2007, 05:36 PM
I always find the "different market" argument interesting. Why a car appeals to someone is not necessarily rigid and does not always follow the 2 versus 4 door, sporty or not sporty rules. I can easily see someone interested in both the Sport and the Civic Type R and then walking away with the R. Price is going to be the biggest factor in that equation not who the car is marketed to.

Not marketing, but physical requirements. I can think of tons of examples where the extra power or lack of doors/seating arrangement will completly rule out one car over another even if they fall under the same name (ie a 'civic').

MKI4EVA
11-06-2007, 05:46 PM
bugger all this talk...........whos putting their money where it matters and ordering one?

I'd be on the list big time if the 4door was here.

Wazza
11-06-2007, 06:04 PM
bugger all this talk...........whos putting their money where it matters and ordering one?

I'd be on the list big time if the 4door was here.


Hopefully putting down a deposit tomorrow if I can agree on a deal with the dealer

sitta
11-06-2007, 06:38 PM
Hopefully putting down a deposit tomorrow if I can agree on a deal with the dealer

i put mine already 1 month ago, i dont think you can find a deal since the demand is still high, except they might give u free mat + window tinting but thats about it

aaronng
11-06-2007, 09:11 PM
Manual Golf GTi with no options can be had for $38k-$39k

Not really. Manual GTI is $38,490 RRP, and VW/Audi doesn't negotiate nor give you a discount on the on-roads.

aaronng
11-06-2007, 09:13 PM
Not marketing, but physical requirements. I can think of tons of examples where the extra power or lack of doors/seating arrangement will completly rule out one car over another even if they fall under the same name (ie a 'civic').

Yup, in this case, the lack of a full boot and an auto will be the determining factor.

aaronng
11-06-2007, 09:14 PM
i wish i can do that, but thats are more likely true .. :p
but it said its has 3 Syncro gears on this on 1 2 3 look like built for drag!!

My car has 3 synchros on 1st and 2nd too! It's drag time! Alfas have synchros on their reverse gear. They drag better in reverse then. LOL

Synchros help you shift smoother, but if you shift too fast, they still crunch.

fasthonda
11-06-2007, 09:29 PM
bugger all this talk...........whos putting their money where it matters and ordering one?

I'd be on the list big time if the 4door was here.

I'm not going to put down any deposit until I see the car in person,sit in it and test the car!
I'm not going to get too distressed if I'm not one of the first people to own one ,I have nothing to prove. I'm not going to buy into the dealer's fear factor that I'll miss out if I don't act NOW !!!
If I decide to buy one and I have to wait,so be it!

Tofu
11-06-2007, 10:42 PM
Not really. Manual GTI is $38,490 RRP, and VW/Audi doesn't negotiate nor give you a discount on the on-roads.

perhaps it only applies to QLD. Cuz it was advertised in our Courier Mail newspaper for that price drive away.
This was published two weeks after they had the Polo GTi for $26k-$27k drive away...and my friend who just bought a Polo GTi was spewing...:p

xtercii
11-06-2007, 11:28 PM
i put mine already 1 month ago, i dont think you can find a deal since the demand is still high, except they might give u free mat + window tinting but thats about it

What makes you said this car is high in demand? Do you have any proofs to support this comment?

krazibone
12-06-2007, 01:58 AM
Will be cancelling my deposit, was quoted $43,888 drive away with mats chucked in and not negotiable what so ever. Salesmen at homebush was a bit pushy and felt like he was bull$h!tting to me wasn't really helpful when i asked him what i was getting in the car which he couldn't answer and kept telling me to refer to the internet which was the UK model.

Don't really care whether i am the first to get one because better deal > being the first one on the road. I'd probably be more cut if i found out someone got a better deal then me. So i'll wait it out abit for a few months or so when the hype dies down a bit.

The dealer showed me a stock enquiry sheet of some sort and i think he had 8 cars allocated to his yard and 5 people had already put a deposit down one which was me. Now if it was on high demand wouldn't all 8 slots be filled out? The dealer is either full of it or just isn't showing me a more recent version of the sheet.

yfin
12-06-2007, 06:54 AM
Will be cancelling my deposit, was quoted $43,888 drive away with mats chucked in and not negotiable what so ever. Salesmen at homebush was a bit pushy and felt like he was bull$h!tting to me wasn't really helpful when i asked him what i was getting in the car which he couldn't answer and kept telling me to refer to the internet which was the UK model.

Don't really care whether i am the first to get one because better deal > being the first one on the road. I'd probably be more cut if i found out someone got a better deal then me. So i'll wait it out abit for a few months or so when the hype dies down a bit.

The dealer showed me a stock enquiry sheet of some sort and i think he had 8 cars allocated to his yard and 5 people had already put a deposit down one which was me. Now if it was on high demand wouldn't all 8 slots be filled out? The dealer is either full of it or just isn't showing me a more recent version of the sheet.

What price are you expecting to get now? I can't see you getting $39,990 drive away anytime soon. And someone is always going to get a better deal than you - so let that go - whether they are the grandmother of the dealer or just slept with the boss.

The risk you run waiting a few months is the allocation will be all gone and no more will be brought in. That said if I was in your position I would wait as I find it hard to believe Honda will "sell out". Take a look at the MPS Mazdas - great cars but not exactly flying out the showroom despite the hype.

But anything is possible - the Golf GTI when released in 2005 sold very strong and there was a very long wait list for delivery. I think it was well over 9 months at one point unless one had pre ordered before the car was released in Australia.

Zdster
12-06-2007, 08:59 AM
Yup, in this case, the lack of a full boot and an auto will be the determining factor.

I also think the two door vs four door issue is still a factor. A recent family member who was looking at the civic would have completly ruled out the type r as a four door car was one of the top priorities.

aaronng
12-06-2007, 11:58 AM
Will be cancelling my deposit, was quoted $43,888 drive away with mats chucked in and not negotiable what so ever. Salesmen at homebush was a bit pushy and felt like he was bull$h!tting to me wasn't really helpful when i asked him what i was getting in the car which he couldn't answer and kept telling me to refer to the internet which was the UK model.

Don't really care whether i am the first to get one because better deal > being the first one on the road. I'd probably be more cut if i found out someone got a better deal then me. So i'll wait it out abit for a few months or so when the hype dies down a bit.

The dealer showed me a stock enquiry sheet of some sort and i think he had 8 cars allocated to his yard and 5 people had already put a deposit down one which was me. Now if it was on high demand wouldn't all 8 slots be filled out? The dealer is either full of it or just isn't showing me a more recent version of the sheet.
You won't get a lower price unless you know someone working high up the rank in the dealer because this car has limited numbers.

aaronng
12-06-2007, 11:59 AM
I also think the two door vs four door issue is still a factor. A recent family member who was looking at the civic would have completly ruled out the type r as a four door car was one of the top priorities.

Oh yeah. I missed the 2 vs 4-door as well. That's #1. :thumbsup:

040501912
12-06-2007, 01:48 PM
THe new Civic type R doesn come from japan..

NO SPOON STUFF FOR YOU ALL !! LOL !!! :p
get the sedan, spoon and mugen make the spare parts :D

The new type R need to get from UK :( more expensive shipping :p

UNLS1
12-06-2007, 03:12 PM
its about $43,500 on road.
I know we are only gettin about 20 of them from now till dec.

id rather the civic type R over the integra type S, that was about $47k OTR!

Ive just been in europe for the last month, went past the honda plant, have a few good pics of all the hatches on trucks. and the accord euro type s wagon!

oh and i have ther civic type R launch this thurs night, should be good!

matt
13-06-2007, 12:48 AM
THe new Civic type R doesn come from japan..

NO SPOON STUFF FOR YOU ALL !! LOL !!! :p
get the sedan, spoon and mugen make the spare parts :D

The new type R need to get from UK :( more expensive shipping :p


um where do think the EP3R came from???
whats gonna casue more trouble is the FN2 isnt going to be sold in Japan, so Jap tuning companies wont have cars to test things on

aaronng
13-06-2007, 01:31 AM
Just look for FN2 parts from JAS Motorsports.

UNLS1
13-06-2007, 07:33 PM
hmm u can option a lower spoiler kit for the front and back! doesnt look bad!

sitta
13-06-2007, 09:49 PM
hmm u can option a lower spoiler kit for the front and back! doesnt look bad!

got any pics on how that looks?

CONAN
14-06-2007, 12:22 AM
Will be cancelling my deposit, was quoted $43,888 drive away with mats chucked in and not negotiable what so ever. Salesmen at homebush was a bit pushy and felt like he was bull$h!tting to me wasn't really helpful when i asked him what i was getting in the car which he couldn't answer and kept telling me to refer to the internet which was the UK model.

Don't really care whether i am the first to get one because better deal > being the first one on the road. I'd probably be more cut if i found out someone got a better deal then me. So i'll wait it out abit for a few months or so when the hype dies down a bit.

The dealer showed me a stock enquiry sheet of some sort and i think he had 8 cars allocated to his yard and 5 people had already put a deposit down one which was me. Now if it was on high demand wouldn't all 8 slots be filled out? The dealer is either full of it or just isn't showing me a more recent version of the sheet.

Did you inquire about the different options are available for the car?
If so, can you list any?

lukits01
14-06-2007, 01:06 AM
I got quoted 45k driveaway (WA) with free floor mats
Options are pretty much same as UK spec
except we don't get SAT NAV or 19" Rage option

Wazza
14-06-2007, 09:11 AM
Did you inquire about the different options are available for the car?
If so, can you list any?


Adapter for iPod
8 Disc CD Stacker
Bluetooth Phone System
Chrome Wheel Lock Nut Set
Rear Park Assist
Floor Carpets
Luggage Area Protector Tray
Mud Guard Set
Sun Shade Set
Rear Bumper and Bootlip Protector
Accent Lighting Set
Organiser Box
Emblem Set
Front Skirt
Rear Skirt
Front Bumper Trim
Rear Bumper Trim
Door Trim

UNLS1
14-06-2007, 09:46 AM
i have the launch tonight, looking forward to it!

lukits01
14-06-2007, 10:15 AM
Heres a pic stock vs front diffuser
What do you guys thing?

sitta
14-06-2007, 10:57 AM
Heres a pic stock vs front diffuser
What do you guys thing?

i like the wheel on that. The fron difuser will look hot on red but i dont think u can really see it on a black ctr

lukits01
14-06-2007, 11:08 AM
The wheels are the Europe only OEM 19" Rage Options
doesn't seem like we are getting them.

Zdster
14-06-2007, 11:16 AM
The wheels are the Europe only OEM 19" Rage Options
doesn't seem like we are getting them.

Bit of a shame - they look pretty good.

2002 TeGgY
14-06-2007, 11:16 AM
the front difuser would look hot on the silver one as well, especially with aftermarket black wheels...

Chris_F
14-06-2007, 11:58 AM
The Civic may slightly weigh less than the Golf (35kg) but look at the difference in torque figures between the two vehicles. I find it hard to believe the Civic Type R can do 0-100 in 6.6 seconds given the weight and power figures. Something doesn't add up.

In the promotional material and specs they say the gear ratios have been adjusted to compensate for the extra weight over the previous typeR. The final drive and/or ratios in the first two gears may make that 0-100 time possible (maybe if Jenson Button was driving it like he does in the promos :P)... it may do worse in the 1/4 mile.

Either way, the styling of the car doesn't appeal.

Kudos to honda Australia for finally brining in the CTR though (even if it isn't the just as ugly JDM equivalent)

dmx
14-06-2007, 07:15 PM
Will be cancelling my deposit, was quoted $43,888 drive away with mats chucked in and not negotiable what so ever. Salesmen at homebush was a bit pushy and felt like he was bull$h!tting to me wasn't really helpful when i asked him what i was getting in the car which he couldn't answer and kept telling me to refer to the internet which was the UK model.

Don't really care whether i am the first to get one because better deal > being the first one on the road. I'd probably be more cut if i found out someone got a better deal then me. So i'll wait it out abit for a few months or so when the hype dies down a bit.

The dealer showed me a stock enquiry sheet of some sort and i think he had 8 cars allocated to his yard and 5 people had already put a deposit down one which was me. Now if it was on high demand wouldn't all 8 slots be filled out? The dealer is either full of it or just isn't showing me a more recent version of the sheet.
never expecting to get better deal for just new release car even floor mats:(
i got my civic one day before it officially launched, not even 1 cent price dropped and just got free 3M window tinted:( :( :(

57UDD
15-06-2007, 12:20 AM
i dunno where you got $39,990 from but i bought mine for $42,990, i'm not the only one but a couple of ppl i've talked to bought it for the same price as me.

After on road costs and everything it'll total bout $46,500.

I should be gettin mine next week.

[This is after i read the posts]

Fcuk QLD ppl are gettin screwed for how much they're paying for the CTR

fasthonda
15-06-2007, 12:38 AM
i dunno where you got $39,990 from but i bought mine for $42,990, i'm not the only one but a couple of ppl i've talked to bought it for the same price as me.

After on road costs and everything it'll total bout $46,500.

I should be gettin mine next week.

[This is after i read the posts]

Fcuk QLD ppl are gettin screwed for how much they're paying for the CTR


its about $43,500 on road.
I know we are only gettin about 20 of them from now till dec.

id rather the civic type R over the integra type S, that was about $47k OTR!


I think the word "screwed" is the operative word,unfortunately.

BlitZ
15-06-2007, 12:47 AM
too bad there isnt LSD nor brembos. And the wheels are smaller than the concept version. else i`d hit it too.
Ive seen the spoon 4 door R.... would love one

UNLS1
15-06-2007, 01:38 PM
ohhhh i love this car!
brakes are great 300mil front disks, type R callipers!

ohh also the Vtec indicator light.......
Able to change from KPH to MPH

duel zone climate controll button on the left hand side for passenger...

many other lil goodies, i cant say much more im sure u will all find out sooner or later.
Cant wait to take one of these home for a weekend!

Also another honda LE commin out soon too....cant say wat that is as last time i mentioned sumthin i got introuble with honda aus.!

UNLS1
15-06-2007, 01:40 PM
i dunno where you got $39,990 from but i bought mine for $42,990, i'm not the only one but a couple of ppl i've talked to bought it for the same price as me.

After on road costs and everything it'll total bout $46,500.

I should be gettin mine next week.

[This is after i read the posts]

Fcuk QLD ppl are gettin screwed for how much they're paying for the CTR

The RRP is $39,990 + ORC!
if u add onroads its about $43,600 in victoria!

Tofu
15-06-2007, 03:57 PM
hmm...yah, as i thought.
but isn't it all a known fact that there's going to be another $3k - $4k on top for ORC for all new cars.
and for something Honda says it's limited amounts, they are definately not likely to discount or chip into their profit margins.

no offence to anyone who's bought the new CTR, but be prepared to "get screwed" buy Honda Australia...
this first lot of CTR are brought in to "test" the market...they will do something a few months later and piss off those who bought the first batch of CTRs...

UNLS1
15-06-2007, 04:16 PM
hmm...yah, as i thought.
but isn't it all a known fact that there's going to be another $3k - $4k on top for ORC for all new cars.
and for something Honda says it's limited amounts, they are definately not likely to discount or chip into their profit margins.

no offence to anyone who's bought the new CTR, but be prepared to "get screwed" buy Honda Australia...
this first lot of CTR are brought in to "test" the market...they will do something a few months later and piss off those who bought the first batch of CTRs...

thanks for your OPINION about honda aus, but please dont try and make your opinion sound like actual FACT.
but then again, if you know honda will do something a few months later please let us all know.....

aaronng
15-06-2007, 04:50 PM
hmm...yah, as i thought.
but isn't it all a known fact that there's going to be another $3k - $4k on top for ORC for all new cars.
and for something Honda says it's limited amounts, they are definately not likely to discount or chip into their profit margins.
It's funny that everyone is complaining about the $3000-4000 on road cost for the CTR when the poor VTI owners also had to pay the same amount with no bargaining just at the end of last year. ;)



no offence to anyone who's bought the new CTR, but be prepared to "get screwed" buy Honda Australia...
this first lot of CTR are brought in to "test" the market...they will do something a few months later and piss off those who bought the first batch of CTRs...
So... do you work for Honda Australia? :zip:

Tofu
15-06-2007, 04:55 PM
I based that comment on what happend with the 2002 Integra models
They brought out the "Special Edition" Integra with bodykit, sunroof and leather, saying it was only 200 of them. Marketing said there was only going to be 200 of these Special Edition Integras. Price was $42k-$43k +ORC which in the end I paid $45k. They said "we cannot give you discounts as there are only 200 of these coming into Australia. If you don't wish to pay $45k for it drive away, then next week perhaps someone else would have bought it and you'll miss out." I knew it was all BS, but I wanted the car so I paid for it anyway.

a few months later, the base model all came with leather and sunroof, Honda calling it Integra Luxury. Priced below the Special Edition Integra and friends of mine bought it and had the power to bargin/lower the price.

They have done it with the Accord Euro range, with the "Accord Euro Sports" and going from 16" to 17" wheels in only a short space of a few months.
Same goes with the 8th Gen Civics. The Sport first had 16" wheels, then now it has 17" wheels for the same price. It's minimal but it still is something which Honda Australia is known to do, as their competitors (Toyota, Nissan, Subaru) do not make changes to their product lines as often or drastically, which makes early buyers annoyed at buying it so soon.

Honda Australia is known to make marketing decisions which many Honda fans may not agree with, so I won't be surprised if they bring in the second batch of CTR, (given the first batch sells well, and they can get their hands on more from the UK) it might come with 18s...

UNLS1
15-06-2007, 05:52 PM
um it has 18" wheels on it now, well the one im looking at now does, and all the material to read on it also states 18" wheels.:)

Tofu
15-06-2007, 05:55 PM
it does?? ok my bad then...
what I mean to say from all this is just keep your eyes and ears out for Honda Australia dealings, (which i'm sure you all will since we are all Honda fans).
I got screwed, just don't want others to go through the same thing.

dmx
15-06-2007, 06:28 PM
I based that comment on what happend with the 2002 Integra models
They brought out the "Special Edition" Integra with bodykit, sunroof and leather, saying it was only 200 of them. Marketing said there was only going to be 200 of these Special Edition Integras. Price was $42k-$43k +ORC which in the end I paid $45k. They said "we cannot give you discounts as there are only 200 of these coming into Australia. If you don't wish to pay $45k for it drive away, then next week perhaps someone else would have bought it and you'll miss out." I knew it was all BS, but I wanted the car so I paid for it anyway.

a few months later, the base model all came with leather and sunroof, Honda calling it Integra Luxury. Priced below the Special Edition Integra and friends of mine bought it and had the power to bargin/lower the price.

They have done it with the Accord Euro range, with the "Accord Euro Sports" and going from 16" to 17" wheels in only a short space of a few months.
Same goes with the 8th Gen Civics. The Sport first had 16" wheels, then now it has 17" wheels for the same price. It's minimal but it still is something which Honda Australia is known to do, as their competitors (Toyota, Nissan, Subaru) do not make changes to their product lines as often or drastically, which makes early buyers annoyed at buying it so soon.

Honda Australia is known to make marketing decisions which many Honda fans may not agree with, so I won't be surprised if they bring in the second batch of CTR, (given the first batch sells well, and they can get their hands on more from the UK) it might come with 18s...

so that's why we should never buy a car with many extras from dealer for extra price.
if we are a car lover (and like to dress up ur car), better buy a basic ones,
and spend the rest of ur money on modification+audio, much better.
Mine bought at basic model, spend the rest money for modification,at the end, still below sport model price, but with many extra than sport; except main things such as leather/engine/sunroof.

matt
15-06-2007, 06:32 PM
things like that are a fact of life tho, ther will always be a better deal coming along. look at plasma/LCD tv's, theres new models coming out all the time but if you want the latest then be prepared to pay for it.

aaronng
15-06-2007, 06:37 PM
I based that comment on what happend with the 2002 Integra models
They brought out the "Special Edition" Integra with bodykit, sunroof and leather, saying it was only 200 of them. Marketing said there was only going to be 200 of these Special Edition Integras. Price was $42k-$43k +ORC which in the end I paid $45k. They said "we cannot give you discounts as there are only 200 of these coming into Australia. If you don't wish to pay $45k for it drive away, then next week perhaps someone else would have bought it and you'll miss out." I knew it was all BS, but I wanted the car so I paid for it anyway.

a few months later, the base model all came with leather and sunroof, Honda calling it Integra Luxury. Priced below the Special Edition Integra and friends of mine bought it and had the power to bargin/lower the price.
*start rant* (no offence intended although I probably sound rude)*

The 2002 Integra Special Edition had an RRP of $39,990, while the 2003 Integra Luxury had an RRP of $40,450 (both manuals). So you were screwed over the ORC, which is typical of every brand (not limited only to Honda) when the model is in limited quantities.



They have done it with the Accord Euro range, with the "Accord Euro Sports" and going from 16" to 17" wheels in only a short space of a few months.
No they haven't. Do your research. The 16" rims were sold for TWO years. From 2003 to 2004. The 2005 Accord Euro Luxury then came with the 17" EuroR rims at NO EXTRA COST! Then in 2006, they changed the rim pattern on the Luxury, while keeping it at 17". The old 2005-design 17" rims were so popular that they brought it back in the form of the Accord Euro Sport, which was priced IN BETWEEN the base and the Luxury, thus making it more affordable for those who couldn't afford over 40k for the Luxury. Furthermore, Honda included the multi-info display on BOTH the base and Luxury models for no extra cost! Now in 2007, they want to keep selling the Accord Euro Sport as they were very popular and thus bringing about the Accord Euro Limited Edition. Want to know something extra? They are selling the Limited Edition with all the same goodies as the Euro Sport for $1000 less!



Same goes with the 8th Gen Civics. The Sport first had 16" wheels, then now it has 17" wheels for the same price. It's minimal but it still is something which Honda Australia is known to do, as their competitors (Toyota, Nissan, Subaru) do not make changes to their product lines as often or drastically, which makes early buyers annoyed at buying it so soon.
So you want Honda Australia to SCREW FUTURE BUYERS as well by sticking to 16" rims for the 2007 model? Geez... That means if we complain that the 2007 CTR doesn't come with Brembos and Honda Australia listens to us and gives us Brembos for the 2008 CTR, does that mean that they are also screwing us over?!



Honda Australia is known to make marketing decisions which many Honda fans may not agree with, so I won't be surprised if they bring in the second batch of CTR, (given the first batch sells well, and they can get their hands on more from the UK) it might come with 18s...
As I said, even the positive marketing decisions bring backlash to Honda Australia. They give you 17" rims for the Accord Euro to differentiate the Luxury model, you say you got screwed. They give you 17" EuroR rims in a sportier model with EuroR metal pedals (that many Euro owners painstakingly import from overseas), you say you got screwed. They give you 17" for the Civic Sport in 2007 because people complained that the 16" rims were not "sporty" enough, you say you got screwed. And now if in some miracle, they read Ozhonda, see that we like the optional 19" Rage rims and try to bring it in next year, are you going to say you got screwed too? :)

*end rant*

Zdster
15-06-2007, 06:46 PM
If you think that is bad, have a look at what Holden has been doing for ages. It feels like every few months they were releasing a new commodore that had more power than the last, more options and the same price. Have a look at the used car market for these cars and it has all gone down hill.

Tofu
15-06-2007, 07:02 PM
*start rant* (no offence intended although I probably sound rude)*


*end rant*

no offence taken at all, it's all different points of view and perspectives.
I'm not talking about what Honda Australia has done to "make improvements" for their shortcomings.

I'm saying for those people who bought earlier model cars got screwed with the inferior stuff. Like the 2003 Euro Luxury got 16" and not 17"...why not give the Euros 17" wheels back then.

If I bought the Civic Sport in 2006 with the 16" and in 2007 it came with 17" I would feel really dirty about it. You know what I mean?

I know companies want to make improvements on their products, but they should also look at what repercussions it will cause.
Because if past customers get done like this over and over again, it really questions their brand loyalty.

aaronng
15-06-2007, 07:19 PM
I know companies want to make improvements on their products, but they should also look at what repercussions it will cause.
Because if past customers get done like this over and over again, it really questions their brand loyalty.
That means, companies should never improve if it might anger current owners? ;)

Just like petrol prices, if it drops on Wednesday by 50 cents, that would still be good eventhough almost everyone (people usually fill on Tuesdays when petrol is at the cheapest) would be pissed off. But it is still good and beneficial because in the following weeks, petrol prices can only climb steadily up (and thus give the opportunity to fill up at the better prices after they finish their tank). Same with cars, when owners of the 2003 Euro are looking to upgrade, they will see a 2007 Euro with great updates that might make it worth buying another Euro. If they saw that the 2007 still gave the same 16" rims, no fuel consumption meter and no sat nav option, they would rather keep their 2003 or buy another brand of car.

Tofu
15-06-2007, 07:50 PM
I can see your point, but buying petrol one week compared to another is like $5-$10 saving/expensive, it hardly compares to something that's +$35k...

But when a Honda owner see that the newer model of their car has all these new inclusions, they would start to compare and see what's new or already have been in the cars from other brands. Because they may have a feeling of being duped. So these people may want to defect to another brand anyway.

But look at other company's business models, BMW and Lexus for example.
The models are differentiated clearly, and when they bring out a new model it's an all new model...from E46 to E92. With a model change like this, past and present customers expect changes and better equipment.
the E46 had a facelift in its lifetime, but they didn't include anything new that you couldn't have optioned in the first place.

unlike Honda, when they brought out the 2007 Euro, its the same car but with more stuff that the marketing people thought will entice new customers...which I feel is just bad PR

jayesse
15-06-2007, 08:02 PM
the E46 had a facelift in its lifetime, but they didn't include anything new that you couldn't have optioned in the first place.


That's actually incorrect....the mid-lifeupdate to the E46 brought a host of changes...new front end styling, new tail light design, a new engine for the base 318i model, new exhaust design on the 330 models, different engene specs for some 6 cylinder models etc, etc Also with the face-lift you could option the M Sport pack for about $5k. 6 months later they released the "Sport" models which got the same gear for about $1,500 less!

Absolutely every one does it...Even Merc with the C-class...what was once an $8k option in the sport pack soon became a limited edition where you could get the same thing for half the price.

You can't escape it!

Tofu
15-06-2007, 08:10 PM
ah...so BMW does it too...
so i guess my conclusion is, if you buy a new car, just be prepared to get screwed...

Jaso
15-06-2007, 08:28 PM
Yah every one does it. Be thankful you bought a Honda! Id hate to hear your rant if you bought a Holden or Ford! :p

DR HONDA
15-06-2007, 08:42 PM
As usual we got ripped off with this model by Honda AU. There are three variants as stated in the shop manuals which are the
TYPE R
TYPE R PLUS
TYPE R RACE
The race version is fitted with i SHIFT which is the equivalent transmission structure as the SMG M3 and has the full KW package as well including the brembos. Bad go Honda AU.

yfin
15-06-2007, 08:47 PM
Lets see how this thing sells in OZ. It has sold very well in the UK - there were 500 orders before official release in the UK

http://www.carpages.co.uk/honda/honda-civic-10-02-07.asp

http://www.duemotori.com/news/auto_news/10528_Honda_Civic_Type_R_over_500_orders_in_UK.php

DR HONDA
15-06-2007, 09:04 PM
I will be test driving it on Monday the 25th. Will give my full thoughts and review then.

Wazza
16-06-2007, 03:53 PM
So does anyone have prices on the accessories available yet?

IAMVTEC
16-06-2007, 04:06 PM
Adding better standard equipment on a vehicle facelift is normal. If you're going to charge the same price for a model thats been around a while, then you'd have to include some free options/new features, otherwise people will just go for newer models.

UNLS1
16-06-2007, 06:35 PM
ah...so BMW does it too...
so i guess my conclusion is, if you buy a new car, just be prepared to get screwed...

i really dont think its being screwed! that sound so harsh, its good that manafactures are listening to customers.

Getting screwed is when u buy a subaru Tribecca and in the first year they realise its the worst looking front ever and they change the whole front after its only been out a year!

and ur going on about 1" in alloys!

It happens with every brand dude, that is life! hardly call it getting screwed!

UNLS1
16-06-2007, 06:36 PM
i have beeb playing with the CTR all day, i love this car so much, plates go on next week and drivin we go!

fasthonda
17-06-2007, 01:12 PM
i have beeb playing with the CTR all day, i love this car so much, plates go on next week and drivin we go!

I'LL be interested in your opinion.The suspension ride has come into some criticism here(Current MOTOR Mag.) and overseas saying it is way too hard.Judging from reviews I'm sure the handling and roadholding will be very good.

xenfacta
17-06-2007, 01:13 PM
if u buy a new car, inevitably it will be superceded.. sometimes its 2 yrs after u buy it, others its 6 months... it happens.... i bought my civiclast july n before year end the updated one came out with a couple of minor additions..doesnt make me enjoy my car any less

sitta
17-06-2007, 10:36 PM
have anyone test drive on in sydney yet? i havent seen any in sydney showroom...

Zdster
18-06-2007, 09:26 AM
I'LL be interested in your opinion.The suspension ride has come into some criticism here(Current MOTOR Mag.) and overseas saying it is way too hard.Judging from reviews I'm sure the handling and roadholding will be very good.

I have always thought that concept was funny when motor magazines complain that the suspension is to hard (not that the suspension is bad - that is another story). It is built as a sports car and not as a family car and as such expect it to be hard.

Tofu
18-06-2007, 09:36 AM
then i guess for those people who buy it then won't need to worry about changing their suspension if they want to do some light track work.

UNLS1
18-06-2007, 10:10 AM
yeah its funny reviews, at the end of the day its just an opinion! we all have ours! i like the car in red, u dont u like it in silver ect.

Motor give some rubbish reviews and some good ones.
Id take the stigs review over motors!

We should have plates on ours this week, official release and advertising starts july then 2nd i believe.

Ill post up my thoughts after i take it for a spin.

xenfacta
18-06-2007, 10:58 AM
the thing with hondas (which some ppl love n some ppl hate) is they have no torque down low.. peak torque in the type r is at 5500rpm ffs. for those that r going to fang it its ok but for an everyday car it wont seem that fast.... again thats always been a honda thing and it means the engines love to rev... waiting for ur view on it tho UNLS1... like all new civics, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, hope u enjoy it

SiR
18-06-2007, 02:24 PM
The RRP of $39990 has been confirmed by Honda Australia.

http://www.zcars.com.au/civic-type-r-australian-pricing/

Check out the pic of the CTR fully loaded with options!!! :D

SiR
18-06-2007, 02:25 PM
The front and rear skirts look great...but shame on them for charging extra for the Type R emblem set!!!

Sidor
18-06-2007, 02:47 PM
Officially launched ! (http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/Honda.com.au/Home/Showroom/Civic+Type+R/)

I wonder how popular it is going to be ?
How long to wait to get it after placing order ?

Sidor
18-06-2007, 02:49 PM
Any one got any insurace quotes on CTR yet ?

lukits01
18-06-2007, 03:12 PM
I tried Just Cars
their response was
"Civic Type Wat??"

Sidor
18-06-2007, 03:23 PM
I tried Just Cars
their response was
"Civic Type Wat??"

:)

so, how we are gonna to insure CTR then ?

sitta
18-06-2007, 03:24 PM
hey its not even out the road yet. Anyone got dc5 r ? how much do you insure it for? i think its around the same

Zdster
18-06-2007, 03:55 PM
The front and rear skirts look great...but shame on them for charging extra for the Type R emblem set!!!

I agree - that is cheap of them!

IAMVTEC
18-06-2007, 04:54 PM
The front and rear skirts look great...but shame on them for charging extra for the Type R emblem set!!!

R U KIDDING ME???!!

xenfacta
18-06-2007, 05:03 PM
easy money lol, how many ppl will option it on.... is it additional badging? id imagine theyd have some sort of type r identification standard

fasthonda
18-06-2007, 05:32 PM
The side body door trim extra !?!
Yep, the badges should've been on the car, not offered as an option:(
If I bought a VW GTI, that would have the GTI badges on the car standard,what is so special about the Type R badges?

SiR
18-06-2007, 05:32 PM
The "Type R" badge at the rear is standard...

But the badge on the grille next to the Red "H" and what appears to be just stickers on the side rear-quarter panels are part of the emblem set.

Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

lukits01
18-06-2007, 05:49 PM
pretty sure the emblem kit is the Grill Type-R Badge and 2*side Type-R Decals
In the UK ppl are getting these for free if you bargain a little

Tofu
18-06-2007, 06:52 PM
hmm...we don't get the 19" Rage wheel option.

mpd076-chuck
18-06-2007, 07:01 PM
It may be a great drive, but until I drive it or go in one, I cannot see how a car that weighs 258kg's more than a DC2R is progress... I'm really disappointed. Every corner and every time you brake, you need to make up for that weight. The JDM EP3 in 2001 had 158kw and LSD, while weighing 150kg less. How can they go backwards in 6 years? Am I being to narrow minded?

panda[cRx]
18-06-2007, 07:16 PM
had a geez today at one in the flesh.
we had customers in all day checking it out.

only thing i dont like is the petrol filler door. it's like cheap plastic that looks like it's been painted with $2 supercheap auto chrome paint

(click for full size)

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5512/img029mi3.th.jpg (http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img029mi3.jpg)
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5879/img028sw5.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img028sw5.jpg)
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6245/img032gd1.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img032gd1.jpg)



sorry they are only phone quality and i didnt have time to get any more pics

matt
18-06-2007, 08:27 PM
just reading through the specs on the honda website,
it uses fly-by-wire throttle so presumably K-pro wont work, like on Euro?
well not for the mean time anyway.

Catcha
18-06-2007, 08:41 PM
Does the european model have HID ? was looking at those clips on the honda site and the silver type R looks like it has HID washers under the lights

SiR
18-06-2007, 08:48 PM
Yep, HID's are available but unfortunately, not for Australia...

industrie
18-06-2007, 09:16 PM
get aftermarket HID's, this car will be the new cult...looks pretty good in the flesh...the only thing that matters is the car is fully optioned as standard i believe? you can just get the upgrades in terms of kits and accessories...

Shimian
18-06-2007, 09:38 PM
damn, i want the pedals for my FD2

Catcha
18-06-2007, 09:44 PM
Damn we get shafted again ....well i suppose it keeps the price down it could be worst $41990 with HID hahahha

aaronng
18-06-2007, 09:47 PM
the thing with hondas (which some ppl love n some ppl hate) is they have no torque down low.. peak torque in the type r is at 5500rpm ffs. for those that r going to fang it its ok but for an everyday car it wont seem that fast.... again thats always been a honda thing and it means the engines love to rev... waiting for ur view on it tho UNLS1... like all new civics, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, hope u enjoy it

Have you driven the CTR yet? :p

The DC5R had peak torque at 6000rpm while the DC5R had it at 7000rpm. So the CTR's 5500rpm would be an improvement. Anyway, peak torque numbers don't tell the whole story. :)

xenfacta
18-06-2007, 09:58 PM
na not yet lol, but its the impression i get from the review....ill keep u posted wen i take it for a fang :P

UNLS1
18-06-2007, 10:44 PM
the reason we didnt get HIDs is coz they didnt meet ADR's
thats from honda aus.

simonnowis
18-06-2007, 10:53 PM
new ctr seems alright, however the design was alittle dissapointment for me. personally i reckon it looks too much like a demented bubble. haha

qstoria
18-06-2007, 11:15 PM
It may be a great drive, but until I drive it or go in one, I cannot see how a car that weighs 258kg's more than a DC2R is progress... I'm really disappointed. Every corner and every time you brake, you need to make up for that weight. The JDM EP3 in 2001 had 158kw and LSD, while weighing 150kg less. How can they go backwards in 6 years? Am I being to narrow minded?


i agree with mpdo76 chuck :thumbsup:

not quite enough power and torque to move something that weighs that much. get it under 1100 kgs and then it would make more sense. but then it would be quick enough to charge a lot more. but then no one would want to pay that much for a civc / integra etc so.. hmm tuff one for honda. at LEAST give us a real type R for once.

SiR
19-06-2007, 12:35 AM
the reason we didnt get HIDs is coz they didnt meet ADR's
thats from honda aus.

Oh right, thanks for the tip.

What a shame though - the ADR's are absolutely pathetic.

I went to the launch of the new Merc C-class and a lot of the new technologies they have did not meet ADR's, namely, the intelligent light system and the flashing brake lights under heavy braking.

Both were great safety technologies, yet couldn't meet the ADR - pathetic!! :thumbdwn:

aaronng
19-06-2007, 12:36 AM
i agree with mpdo76 chuck :thumbsup:

not quite enough power and torque to move something that weighs that much. get it under 1100 kgs and then it would make more sense. but then it would be quick enough to charge a lot more. but then no one would want to pay that much for a civc / integra etc so.. hmm tuff one for honda. at LEAST give us a real type R for once.

I don't think I trust the 1345kg weight figure. Hopefully an owner signs up on Ozhonda and weighs his car on a weigh bridge.

lukits01
19-06-2007, 09:51 AM
I don't think I trust the 1345kg weight figure. Hopefully an owner signs up on Ozhonda and weighs his car on a weigh bridge.

It's been done :p proudly in the YOUUUUKAYYY

"The car had a completely full tank of petrol except for the 18 miles I drove to work, it also had a baby seat and pram in it.

The weighbridge is accurate to 20kg at 1 ton intervals all the way to 50 tonnes.

And the car weighed 1320kg, so take a drop of petrol out, the baby seat and the pram and id say a GT weighs 1300kg's. "

Tofu
19-06-2007, 10:41 AM
good god, that is heavy.

xenfacta
19-06-2007, 10:44 AM
i dont get it, the civic sport is a bigger car, with leather n all the other goodies and a k20 and it 'only' weighs 1260 kg...

R123
19-06-2007, 12:39 PM
wow... looks like the our very first CTR (from honda aus) is getting ready for all our R-ers... geee i am kinda excited too even i am overseas. defintely like to see how it went in the oz market.

well i think definitely apperciate Tofus headup for telling us abt the version upgrade and facelifts matter... however i think there will be a little for the top of the range like.. i bought my DC5 .. ok i mean DC5R in 04 and theres no difference with the first batch.. i dont think evos and stis are any different,nor gti, but correct me if i am wrong.

so i think the whole layout of the CTR wont change much.. well i hope. hahaha

have fun with the CTR guys.. (be eager for any after reviews post on here thou)

aaronng
19-06-2007, 01:13 PM
It's been done :p proudly in the YOUUUUKAYYY

"The car had a completely full tank of petrol except for the 18 miles I drove to work, it also had a baby seat and pram in it.

The weighbridge is accurate to 20kg at 1 ton intervals all the way to 50 tonnes.

And the car weighed 1320kg, so take a drop of petrol out, the baby seat and the pram and id say a GT weighs 1300kg's. "
Was the guy in the car as well? Kerb weight means all fluid and a full tank of fuel but no driver in it. If his car weighed at 1320kg with the baby seat and pram, the car is still lighter than the stated 1345kg.

IAMVTEC
19-06-2007, 01:55 PM
i dont get it, the civic sport is a bigger car, with leather n all the other goodies and a k20 and it 'only' weighs 1260 kg...

If you look at the interior, the european civic has more features on the dash than the Asian one. They have all sorts of weird stuff on theirs, the feature for our Civic is pretty basic.

Tofu
19-06-2007, 02:04 PM
^ hmm, now that you say so....i think you might be onto something there..
i think the 1345kg is for the UK Civic TypeR GT spec...

the CTR we're getting, is it the GT or non GT?

slipangle
19-06-2007, 03:57 PM
on the topic of future changes... this is an inevitability;

according to http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/208441/honda_civic_typer.html

"Honda has confirmed the lessons it learns from the Type R-R will be employed on future versions of the hot Civic."

Let's hope that one of those lessons yields in clever weight reduction.

aaronng
19-06-2007, 04:14 PM
on the topic of future changes... this is an inevitability;

according to http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/208441/honda_civic_typer.html

"Honda has confirmed the lessons it learns from the Type R-R will be employed on future versions of the hot Civic."

Let's hope that one of those lessons yields in clever weight reduction.

Oh look what was in the link:

However, it’s not until you open the door that you realise how the engineers have managed to pare the standard car's 1267kg back to a shade under 1100kg.
So the standard CTR weighs less than 1345kg!

xtercii
19-06-2007, 05:49 PM
why they talk up the weight then, it's not like they can benefit anything from it??

aaronng
19-06-2007, 06:29 PM
why they talk up the weight then, it's not like they can benefit anything from it??

Power-to-weight ratio for insurance?

MKI4EVA
19-06-2007, 09:50 PM
There have been other examples of cars that were design with arse=front look that worked out alot better than the R.


http://www.autozine.org/gallery/alfa/Brera_fr.jpg

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/12/Alfa_Brera.jpg

and TT namely.............

My point........CTR still CT-UGLY aSSsss.

Feel sorry for the first guy to bring one to a circuit club track day. Every tom dick and nguyen will be bench marking against it..........hahhahaha.

Wazza
19-06-2007, 09:57 PM
Just to put things into perspective, this was taken from Evo Magazine

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/wazzaj11/hatchweightsyo6.jpg

Has anyone been quoted prices for the accessories yet?? I was quoted some today and the prices are unbelievable eg $695 for the door trims, $895 for front skirt...

I remember reading a post about a special edition model to be released in the future but now I can't find it. Can anyone help me out?

UNLS1
19-06-2007, 10:01 PM
There have been other examples of cars that were design with arse=front look that worked out alot better than the R.


http://www.autozine.org/gallery/alfa/Brera_fr.jpg

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/12/Alfa_Brera.jpg

and TT namely.............

My point........CTR still CT-UGLY aSSsss.

Feel sorry for the first guy to bring one to a circuit club track day. Every tom dick and nguyen will be bench marking against it..........hahhahaha.

just remember thats just YOUR OPINION!
and YOURS only..... u can have it.....
but sales in the UK and the ones starting here may prove u wrong a bit

aaronng
19-06-2007, 10:54 PM
Has anyone been quoted prices for the accessories yet?? I was quoted some today and the prices are unbelievable eg $695 for the door trims, $895 for front skirt...
That's normal. The rear lip for the Euro costs $900.



I remember reading a post about a special edition model to be released in the future but now I can't find it. Can anyone help me out?
Unless the person who posted that up works at Honda UK/Japan, I wouldn't believe it.

xenfacta
19-06-2007, 11:27 PM
kit pricing sounds about right... i think they told me around 2grand for the modula kit from the factory... n that would sell in higher numbers thant he comparitively rare type r accessories

abzndintegra
20-06-2007, 11:15 AM
Hey guys

Does anyone know if any dealership in sydney has these on display yet? i rang rickdamelian and peter warren and they arent getting it till the end of the month.

sitta
20-06-2007, 12:12 PM
Hey guys

Does anyone know if any dealership in sydney has these on display yet? i rang rickdamelian and peter warren and they arent getting it till the end of the month.

yup it will come at the end of the month my delaer said around 25th to 28th

UNLS1
20-06-2007, 01:09 PM
wow, we have ours on the showroom and have a registered demo!

sitta
20-06-2007, 02:14 PM
wow, we have ours on the showroom and have a registered demo!

maybe because the first shipment arrived in melbourne and need some time to get to sydney?

vupham
20-06-2007, 02:38 PM
Such a sexy car, would love to buy one if i have the money available :(
One thing bother me is the weight, with 1343kg is too much for a Type R. The Type S if i remembered is only 1280 if with 154kw and hardly make the 6.6 in 0-100 and 14.8 in 400m o_O This civic type R should be really a Civic Type S since Aus Honda chosen to import it to fit our market over the jap Type R. It just replaces the Integra typeS, our civic type r have even have more luxury goodies than the typeS such as dual aircon, steering wheel audio remote control, cruise control. Is it really nessary to have them for a truly Type R? If Aus honda really wanted to go down this path, they should just have only Civic sedan Vti, Hybrid, Civic Hatch Luxury model? and the JDM type R in our civic line. Atm we have Civic Vti, Vti-L, Sport, Hybrid now Civiv Type R, I wonder how well the Civic Sport going to do with the sales.
After all, the integra type s is gone and the civic type r is a better overall package compared to the type S, i just wish i have the money to buy one now even if it is call the civic type S.

UNLS1
20-06-2007, 04:44 PM
maybe because the first shipment arrived in melbourne and need some time to get to sydney?


ahhhh yes, but i thought they went darwin, qld, syd then melb then tass on the boat.
hmmmm

UNLS1
20-06-2007, 04:47 PM
Such a sexy car, would love to buy one if i have the money available :(
One thing bother me is the weight, with 1343kg is too much for a Type R. The Type S if i remembered is only 1280 if with 154kw and hardly make the 6.6 in 0-100 and 14.8 in 400m o_O This civic type R should be really a Civic Type S since Aus Honda chosen to import it to fit our market over the jap Type R. It just replaces the Integra typeS, our civic type r have even have more luxury goodies than the typeS such as dual aircon, steering wheel audio remote control, cruise control. Is it really nessary to have them for a truly Type R? If Aus honda really wanted to go down this path, they should just have only Civic sedan Vti, Hybrid, Civic Hatch Luxury model? and the JDM type R in our civic line. Atm we have Civic Vti, Vti-L, Sport, Hybrid now Civiv Type R, I wonder how well the Civic Sport going to do with the sales.
After all, the integra type s is gone and the civic type r is a better overall package compared to the type S, i just wish i have the money to buy one now even if it is call the civic type S.


the civic sport will still sell very well. Why? coz its auto i have had 6 people ask me if the CTR comes in auto already! The sport is still a different market. Its still good value for money with the sunroof and leather ect and only in the mid 30k bracket. Just like the fucus luxury and mazda 3 SP23 will still sell well.

industrie
20-06-2007, 04:56 PM
Such a sexy car, would love to buy one if i have the money available :(
One thing bother me is the weight, with 1343kg is too much for a Type R. The Type S if i remembered is only 1280 if with 154kw and hardly make the 6.6 in 0-100 and 14.8 in 400m o_O This civic type R should be really a Civic Type S since Aus Honda chosen to import it to fit our market over the jap Type R. It just replaces the Integra typeS, our civic type r have even have more luxury goodies than the typeS such as dual aircon, steering wheel audio remote control, cruise control. Is it really nessary to have them for a truly Type R? If Aus honda really wanted to go down this path, they should just have only Civic sedan Vti, Hybrid, Civic Hatch Luxury model? and the JDM type R in our civic line. Atm we have Civic Vti, Vti-L, Sport, Hybrid now Civiv Type R, I wonder how well the Civic Sport going to do with the sales.
After all, the integra type s is gone and the civic type r is a better overall package compared to the type S, i just wish i have the money to buy one now even if it is call the civic type S.

its a type R, not a type S, its the UK type R! Honda will never go back to raw designs of the DC2R, as people these days prefer comfort and handling and all the little luxuries.

UNLS1
20-06-2007, 06:47 PM
thats so true!

the thing that makes me laugh is all these people wanting the 'true' type R, even though there is no market for it now and times have changed...

also how many of the people who say all this actually bought it new when it came out???
or how many are actually in the market for a new CTR???

or how many bought a new car in the last 2 years...???

Alot of us have i know but the ones with the 6 year old hondas and the ones that have no intention on buying a new car in the near future that whinge all the time about honda new car make me laugh.

mpd076-chuck
20-06-2007, 07:37 PM
Well buddy you are laughing at me. I want a freakin' true Type R and I'm prepared to pay for it.

The market has changed, but there are plenty of die-hard DC2R owners such as myself, who WOULD buy a new Type R if it were a cracking drive. Instead we are left to look to Evo's, elise's, mx5's etc's if we want to try and `raise the bar' while keeping a pure driving experience. But none have a glorious NA honda engine and gearbox.

I'm thinking about getting an EP3 import, it's more a Type R spirit over this one, but the problem is that it's no newer than my DC2R for the same money.

If the 4 door CTR came out here I would buy it.

NeoNode
20-06-2007, 07:57 PM
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/803/jdmse2.jpg

slipangle
20-06-2007, 08:52 PM
thats so true!

the thing that makes me laugh is all these people wanting the 'true' type R, even though there is no market for it now and times have changed...

also how many of the people who say all this actually bought it new when it came out???
or how many are actually in the market for a new CTR???

or how many bought a new car in the last 2 years...???

Alot of us have i know but the ones with the 6 year old hondas and the ones that have no intention on buying a new car in the near future that whinge all the time about honda new car make me laugh.

Please Honda, make me a car that I'd want to buy and I'll gladly pay you for it. But don't try and sell me some half baked Type R and tell me that that is what I want...who told you that? the same marketing people that tell you there is no longer a market for enthusiasts who are fans of the purity and execution of even 6 year old DC2Rs?

Well, if it was a choice between the Japanese car, and the UK car, I'll vote with my wallet for the former. Is the Japanese demographic so different to the Australian that our market is deemed not feasible for Honda Aus to sell the version the Japanese actually consider worthy of the Type R badge in their local market? If that is the case, then that is a sad indictment on the Australian buying public, if we had the opportunity to pursue a technically better product but settle for gloss and spin then I'd say that there are a lot of ppl that are blissfully happy being ignorant of what Honda are truly capable of in building magnificent driver's cars that punch well above their weight.

"Type R" SHOULD be a no brainer for any self respecting enthusiast (much like when Porsche deems something worthy enough of wearing the "RS" badge..you know it is going to be one where the engineers have won most of the product design arguments), but given the cynicism towards this new car, it saddens me that the use of Type R brand is not applied with the sort of discipline that Porsche applies to its ultimate models. When we start bastardising the brand, you lose the share of mind that people like me hold about the maker and this can only be a bad thing. More so, when Honda is spending $$$ in motorsport to create a sporting and exciting brand. I can tell you, when I think of the "power of my dreams", this UK CTR doesn't even register.

By the way, I have the means to purchase any new car Honda currently offers, but just not the desire.

Signed,
one of those whingers.

Wazza
20-06-2007, 10:15 PM
Slipangle, Porsche is almost purely a marque of sports performance cars, of which Honda is definately not, so I find it difficult to grasp that you try and compare a 'Type R' to an 'RS' .

Has everyone also forgotten that the 'mighty' JDM CTR is able to generate its far 'superior' power due to 100 RON fuel being readily available in Japan. Last time I checked, 100 RON fuel was fairly hard to come by in Australia (although I will apologise if it is now available in mainland Aus as I know it isn't available in Tasmania). Thus, surely if the JDM CTR was imported to Australia then it would have to be 'de-tuned' anyway to cope with our fuel. If that was the case it then should be re-badged a Type S shouldn't it???

The JDM CTR also has options such as Sat Nav, Climate Control and Bluetooth phone capabilities just to name a few, now to a true Honda purist these are definately not befitting of a 'Type R'????

The JDM CTR is also a four door sedan, all other CTR's have been 2 door hatches have they not?? Now to a true Honda purist this is surely not acceptable...

Some of us are just tired of the teenage keyboard racers that in reality cannot afford any brand new CTR regardless of origin, but choose to constantly undermine the UK CTR in favour of a four door sedan with a massive wing that Australia will never see. UNLS1 is right, the market has changed, the majority of people that can actually afford a CTR want more than a stripped out race car. So why would Honda release a stripped out race car that will not sell as new, but will be a highly sought after used car when it becomes affordable for the 20-30 year old male age bracket?

Has Australia ever been delivered a 'true Type R'?? DC2R? DC5R? not true JDM spec. Stop complaining and ust enjoy what we have......

industrie
20-06-2007, 10:27 PM
i agree, there are only a handful of you guys who want the raw type R, but honda australia doesnt see that as viable business option to satisfy putting in the costs to bring it over here, if you look back at the DC2R, DC5R, prelude and type S yes they did sell but they didnt sell enough to justify keeping it, as the market segment has a broader spectrum and they know that market change, you need to keep up with the demands...

We all know that hondas racing background gave Honda the slap in the head to at least bring something over that can meet the 'large consumer market of australia' and the UK type R was what they considered to match the Golf, Focus etc...so whoever buys this UK built type R tell us how it is and show us some pictures of it!

mpd076-chuck
20-06-2007, 10:41 PM
Wazza, you are missing the point we are making. In our view, a Type R should not have "Sat Nav, Climate Control and Bluetooth phone capabilities". A Type R should be focused on driving, on purity. A Type S should have those luxury features.

A Type R in the 90's equated to an Porsche RS because they are both types of cars focussed on driver feedback, involvement and purity. The EVO reader Top Ten had both the DC2R and NSX Type R alongside the Porsche GT3. Sure the Honda's are slower, but they are as focussed.

Regarding RON, that is not a real reason, the fact is Honda Japan don't want us to have those cars for whatever reason. The 2006 DC5 Type S had a 154 kw, 6kw more than this CTR???

It's not about 2 or 4 doors, it's about purity and focus. Honda set amazing benchmarks in the first CTR, the DC2R and NSXR. We all looked forward to the next versions, and we did not get what we were expecting with this AUDM CTR.

Let me reiterate, most DC2R owners I know do not want to buy new a CTR. We have to go elsewhere.

A car that is heavier, has no advancement in power, no LSD and is full of luxury options - this is not a stripped out race model which is the Type R heritage.

aaronng
20-06-2007, 11:27 PM
Wazza, you are missing the point we are making. In our view, a Type R should not have "Sat Nav, Climate Control and Bluetooth phone capabilities". A Type R should be focused on driving, on purity. A Type S should have those luxury features.

A Type R in the 90's equated to an Porsche RS because they are both types of cars focussed on driver feedback, involvement and purity. The EVO reader Top Ten had both the DC2R and NSX Type R alongside the Porsche GT3. Sure the Honda's are slower, but they are as focussed.
That was in the 90's. Everyone was doing stripped-down fast cars. It is now 2007 and everyone wants power, handling, comforts, CD stackers and bluetooth.



Regarding RON, that is not a real reason, the fact is Honda Japan don't want us to have those cars for whatever reason. The 2006 DC5 Type S had a 154 kw, 6kw more than this CTR???

Because the Type S makes peak torque at 7000rpm. I don't think you want an engine with no low rpm torque. JDM Type Rs make more torque at a similar RPM. So they have different ECU mapping, probably for their 100 RON fuel.

spanks
20-06-2007, 11:28 PM
There is also a type R PLUS available in overseas markets.Lighter weight,better handling.Not sure on extra power though.

If any one here has a chance to look in the trpe R workshop manual supplement it is mentioned VERY breifly.

aaronng
20-06-2007, 11:37 PM
There is also a type R PLUS available in overseas markets.Lighter weight,better handling.Not sure on extra power though.

If any one here has a chance to look in the trpe R workshop manual supplement it is mentioned VERY breifly.
They probably planned to build something like that but decided not to. I don't see a Type R Plus for sale on the Honda UK site.

mpd076-chuck
20-06-2007, 11:41 PM
That was in the 90's. Everyone was doing stripped-down fast cars. It is now 2007 and everyone wants power, handling, comforts, CD stackers and bluetooth.


Because the Type S makes peak torque at 7000rpm. I don't think you want an engine with no low rpm torque. JDM Type Rs make more torque at a similar RPM. So they have different ECU mapping, probably for their 100 RON fuel.

So slipangle and I don't count in the everyone category? We don't WANT comforts, CD stackers and bluetooth! And that is exactly why this is a TYPE S, it should not ride on the coat-tails of TYPE R. I've busted my kidneys for over 7 years on shocking Sydney roads for`Type R' cred and now you guys get to do it in comfort? :p

If I wanted an engine with low rpm torque I wouldn't be driving an NA 4 cylinder... Forget about the RON 100, the new CTR has a better torque curve than the K20, but are we not right to expect more than 148kw since we first saw 147kw in 2001? Especially with more weight? Shouldn't performance be a reasonable question for a car marketed as a sports car, carrying an established brand (Type R)?

aaronng
21-06-2007, 12:31 AM
So slipangle and I don't count in the everyone category? We don't WANT comforts, CD stackers and bluetooth! And that is exactly why this is a TYPE S, it should not ride on the coat-tails of TYPE R. I've busted my kidneys for over 7 years on shocking Sydney roads for`Type R' cred and now you guys get to do it in comfort? :p

If I wanted an engine with low rpm torque I wouldn't be driving an NA 4 cylinder... Forget about the RON 100, the new CTR has a better torque curve than the K20, but are we not right to expect more than 148kw since we first saw 147kw in 2001? Especially with more weight? Shouldn't performance be a reasonable question for a car marketed as a sports car, carrying an established brand (Type R)?

Unfortunately, you are the minority. And in business, majority wins because that's where the profits are (if the company doesn't survive, there won't be anymore Type R, Type S, Type A, Type B or Type C. Unlike Toyota, Honda doesn't have large volume sales to cover the cost of developing a Type R if it doesn't sell enough numbers. It's just like Canon and Nikon. Canon can put out wonderful top end cameras at $11,000 a pop and not sell many because they have the revenue from printers, scanners and fax machines to cover it.

vupham
21-06-2007, 02:35 AM
Like i said in my previous post,i would buy the new CTR with either the badge typeR or typeS if i have the money because its a nice car with the right package. Now when i said if i have the money i mean $45k spare lying around, im happy what we have been offered with the CTR by Honda Australia because thats all we really can get. I bought the 05 TypeS before because thats all i have been offered by Honda Aus and I was fully happy with it, but if i have been offered the TypeS and the TypeR from JP, i would choose the TypeR. I could buy the 02-04 Type R but no because i wanted a new car and 05 had a facelift.

Sad but true is that Honda AU cant get the Jap CTR for some reasons, I mean the JDM CTR is already made for production after all the $$$ is spent to develope it, whats so hard Honda JP to export them to our market, im really curious about that. So if Aus can get both the UK CTR and the JP CTR, i will put my money on the JP CTR. Anyways, the Integra TypeS didnt do to well with the sales even it has a complete package, power, comfort and appearance.

Hullabaloo
21-06-2007, 09:33 AM
What engine does the civic have? it has 148kw right? sounds close to a k20a2? it has a red rocker cover right? vtec 'engagement' is lower right? something like 5k?

Anyways, i'll definately be watching with interest with how sales go. What was the main opinions of the other models? dc2r - too harshe for every day? dc5r - not a real type r? dc5s - not a type r and market going away from coupes?

so where does the new civic fit in? probably not too harshe, is labled type r, is it a real type r? dunno, i guess it'll all come down to how fast it is and how well it handles... evo mag did a review and comparison of it (against focus st, megane r26, golf gti, etc) and they were disappointed i think. (correct me if i'm wrong, i don't have a copy of the article)

Still think it looks great inside, not so sure about outside.

Hullabaloo
21-06-2007, 09:42 AM
if the civic did come in with less 'features' (eg it was what we would call, more stripped down) i reckon it'd wouldn't be all that much cheaper.. maybe $35,990+ ORC? Then it might not sell as well because compeditors cars offer more value for money, and like aaronng said people want that these days.

UNLS1
21-06-2007, 09:51 AM
ohhh this is some good discussion!

just remember, new cars is a business. Its not worth bringing these true type Rs in for such a small market of die hard honda fans!
We have sold a few to business men, and one to a gentleman over 50 coz he wants it for a daily.

They dont make intergas anymore coz that market is over, nobody wants one, ony the 'die hard' honda fans would want a true type R integra...i doubt honda would think it would be worth making just a few thousand world wide to keep them happy.

Be realistic, its a business and the civic the way it is in the australian market is wat we need.

Japan is totally different, look at the cars they have....

slipangle
21-06-2007, 09:59 AM
To use another Porsche analogy (albeit exaggerated) that some might better understand... Don't build a Cayenne and call it a 911. There is a large 911 fan base, (undoubtedly bigger and deeper pocketed than purist Type R fans,) and when you continue to put out products that don't display the integraty (pun intended :) ) from which the fans had formed their loyalty, then you will screw all that awareness and goodwill that had been built with the people (like me) who had purchased in to that brand. If Porsche tomorrow said that they'd stop making 911s and future models will be front engined and weigh 2 tonnes, I doubt that they will continue to be the most profitable car company in the world.

I have fallen deeply for the DC2R (sad but true), I'm fortunate not to be limited financially to virtually any mainstream performance car available on the market, but I choose to be patient, for someone to make something that is worthy of my dollars, something that displays that the manufacturer has really moved the game on from the DC2R. From what I've seen of the FD2, this hits a lot of those buttons. For now, I still have an affinity with Honda (and Porsches!), but if the Japanese folk were not creating the cars they are in Honda Japan, my affinity with Honda will slowly dissolve and I will not place them as first preference among the Japanese makers, they may as well become a Toyota and build as many mundane Civics as they can to bolster their balance sheets, then people with a loyalty like me will not place them first on the list to earn my money. They will just become another maker of a commodity from which I can choose between a whole host of generic suppliers. Yes, Honda is a commercial entity in business to make money, but Soichiro also recognised that there is an intangible factor in creating halo cars that say something about their capabilities that don't necessarily make them any money on those particular niche cars, but say a lot about Honda, and in particular Type R. This UK CTR says to me... I just want to sell as many of these things as I can...the bigger the subwoofer, the better. I suppose even the Pussycat dolls make money in the music industry :), but in time, they will slowly fade away (hopefully) in to irrelevance, like Type R if Honda Aus keeps telling people like me that sat nav and electric power steering is more worthy than genuine performance and driver involvement.

I don't mind the fact that the JDM car is a 4 door, I know in the results that it weighs even less than this 3 door car we're getting...and I have more confidence that those clever people in Japan has pored over the minute details to extract as much performance as possible within the Type R ethos. They didn't come to the conclusion that it could do without an LSD...they've shown us in the comparative lap times that it is a very effective machine despite the 4 door layout.

I leave you now with the image of Ayrton Senna driving the NSX Type R around Suzuka (if you haven't seen it, youtube it, it's worth it). Now, there is a core appeal of true Type R, whether it be an NSX, Civic or Integra. The only image I associate with the UK CTR are hats worn backwards and neon lights driving down Chapel st wif da doof doof cranked up to 11.

aaronng
21-06-2007, 10:08 AM
so where does the new civic fit in? probably not too harshe, is labled type r, is it a real type r? dunno, i guess it'll all come down to how fast it is and how well it handles... evo mag did a review and comparison of it (against focus st, megane r26, golf gti, etc) and they were disappointed i think. (correct me if i'm wrong, i don't have a copy of the article)

I don't see the comparo on their website: http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/archive/

xenfacta
21-06-2007, 10:14 AM
it will be interesting to see the sales results... being realtively new to hondas (not so much of a vtec fanatic) i dont feel that strongly about the "Type R" badge... Honda has done the smart thing here... hot hatches are the flavour of the months and they bring repeat customers in to buy the family car etc.. VW has done the same thing with the GTi.... an iconic badge for much longer than "Type R".

To compete with these cars, the car needs to be specced up... its hooks will be its character and styling (which is divisive, but ive got an FD civic so i know what it feels like). At the end of the day, all car makers are in business to MAKE MONEY... How many nice cars are going to be available if Honda cater to a small bunch of enthusiasts half of which (lets be real here) have no intention of buying either the JDM or UK CTR.

aaronng
21-06-2007, 10:26 AM
It's funny that people are saying that the UK CTR is not a true type R, while they like the JDM one which breaks the Type R tradition of having 2 doors. :)

Oh and for that Porsche analogy, they are backed by the German government. I don't think Honda Australia is backed by the Australian government and therefore can't risk bad business models.

slipangle
21-06-2007, 10:37 AM
It's funny that people are saying that the UK CTR is not a true type R, while they like the JDM one which breaks the Type R tradition of having 2 doors. :)

Oh and for that Porsche analogy, they are backed by the German government. I don't think Honda Australia is backed by the Australian government and therefore can't risk bad business models.


Porsche are a publicly listed company with probably the largest brand awareness of any car manufacturer. They know how to do business in the car world and they are very good at trading off their brand. Their success is not a product of Government protectionism unlike our local manufacturers. In fact a lot of their business comes from consultancy so they know a thing or two.

What Honda Aus are risking are the loyalty of a group of their devotees. Having said that, I don't doubt that they will continue to make money, and that you can't please all people. They will probably gain followers from this venture, but every once in a while, at least throw us a bone to keep us types happy, and don't try to tell me this orange is the latest and greatest apple!

Zdster
21-06-2007, 10:51 AM
To use another Porsche analogy (albeit exaggerated) that some might better understand... Don't build a Cayenne and call it a 911. There is a large 911 fan base, (undoubtedly bigger and deeper pocketed than purist Type R fans,) and when you continue to put out products that don't display the integraty (pun intended :) ) from which the fans had formed their loyalty, then you will screw all that awareness and goodwill that had been built with the people (like me) who had purchased in to that brand. If Porsche tomorrow said that they'd stop making 911s and future models will be front engined and weigh 2 tonnes, I doubt that they will continue to be the most profitable car company in the world.


I agree with what you are saying here, but I think we need to note that unlike Porshe, the majority of Honda sales are not in the traditional 'sports car' market. Look at the number of Euro's sold as a good example.

That being said, I do find it incredibly interesting the direction of the new car market. You have companies like Nissan who are bringing out the 'super car' gtr as well as the sales seen of the 350z and rx8. To me it would appear on its face that the sports car market is doing pretty well. That being said I think a few things always need to be considered by car manufacturers when looking at new models:

Market size and scope
Market demand (whether influenced by the particular manufacturer through advertising or not)
Strategic direction of the overall car manufacturer
Strategic direction of the local car manufacturer (ie the Honda brand in the Australian setting - this is particularly different to the last dot point)
etc etcI think we also need to remember that most people here are not true representatives of the car buying public. Most here are enthusiasts, who know (or want to know) about their cars which is fairly different to the average buyer.

denot
21-06-2007, 10:53 AM
One thing for sure... sports car sales are dying "slowly"... look at the market now... Toyot stop Supra and Celica and only making Aurion (big bulky car - sounds like a family car to me) as their sports car? Honda stop Integra (and Jap dealer told me when I was there that they will soon or later stop S2000 as well) Mitshubishi stop their 2 doors car (only EVO left as their sports range - 4 doors? again... family car?).

Well most of the customer wants is, like aarong sed, value for money. some minor ppl (especially for 1st time car buyer - like myself and other P Platers) might still want to get power + sporty looks on their car...

but yea... i think there wont be much to choose in terms of sports car form Jap manufacturer...



Japan is totally different, look at the cars they have....

Believe it or not UNLS1, u barely seen any Sports car on Tokyo streets most of the time. they only out around midnight on weekends around some "gathering" area... daily, ppl drive fit (jazz) or smaller cars... No more "wow" looking car on Tokyo on daylight for sure...

aaronng
21-06-2007, 10:54 AM
Porsche are a publicly listed company with probably the largest brand awareness of any car manufacturer. They know how to do business in the car world and they are very good at trading off their brand. Their success is not a product of Government protectionism unlike our local manufacturers. In fact a lot of their business comes from consultancy so they know a thing or two.
Yes, they are publicly listed. But the German government is pretty protective of their national "assets" :)



What Honda Aus are risking are the loyalty of a group of their devotees. Having said that, I don't doubt that they will continue to make money, and that you can't please all people. They will probably gain followers from this venture, but every once in a while, at least throw us a bone to keep us types happy, and don't try to tell me this orange is the latest and greatest apple!
Unfortunately for those in their 30s and 40s with lots of money, they don't have brand loyalty. And this bone costs a lot to make if they can only toss one or two hundred bones. They need a market of at least a thousand a year I think.

mpd076-chuck
21-06-2007, 11:16 AM
I don't see the comparo on their website: http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/archive/

I think it was evo mag 102, they don't publish all the magazine articles on the website. I have it somewhere at home.

Anyway, to all you CTR buyers, enjoy the car. Whether it's true to what we perceive as `Type R' Heritage doesn't matter if you like the way it looks and goes.

4 door vs 2 door thing? Come on I thought you were a honda fan! There have been 2 highly acclaimed 4 door Type R accords already... once again the point is about the substance and ethos of the car.

http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCORDEURO-R/

denot
21-06-2007, 11:17 AM
There have been 2 highly acclaimed 4 door Type R accords already... once again the point is about the substance and ethos of the car.

http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCORDEURO-R/

again like I sed... another "family car" to me...

aaronng
21-06-2007, 11:19 AM
4 door vs 2 door thing? Come on I thought you were a honda fan! There have been 2 highly acclaimed 4 door Type R accords already... once again the point is about the substance and ethos of the car.

http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCORDEURO-R/
LOL, the EuroR is not a Type R. :) It's just an Accord with a k20A and Recaros. The suspension is still softer than a TSX. There is no additional chassis strenghtening nor bracing over the standard model. Weight reduction? None at all. It still gets the full interior, dual zone climate control and even the sat nav option.

Also, if I can quote Tsuchiya Keiichi, "アコドはタイプRじゃない。イユロRよ。". Or translated loosely, "The Accord is not a real Type R. It is an EuroR."

aaronng
21-06-2007, 11:25 AM
I want to add that there is one thing that indicates whether the car is a real Type R. That is when Honda uses a thinner windscreen for weight reduction. Whether the UK CTR has a thinner windscreen, I do not know. :)

slipangle
21-06-2007, 11:25 AM
I think we also need to remember that most people here are not true representatives of the car buying public. Most here are enthusiasts, who know (or want to know) about their cars which is fairly different to the average buyer.

How true!

mpd076-chuck
21-06-2007, 11:30 AM
Keiichi does have good opinions, but EVO rated them both. So I need to expand beyond EVO, but obviously your Japanese is better than mine! (well you probably used google)

Anyway aaron, if the CTR is a Type R in your eyes, then so be it. For me, I watched the DC5R come out in 2001 and now 6 years later in 2007 I see very little difference between it and the CTR. What is a Type R fan boy to do?!

slipangle
21-06-2007, 11:32 AM
Keiichi does have good opinions, but EVO rated them both. So I need to expand beyond EVO, but obviously your Japanese is better than mine! (well you probably used google)

Anyway aaron, if the CTR is a Type R in your eyes, then so be it. For me, I watched the DC5R come out in 2001 and now 6 years later in 2007 I see very little difference between it and the CTR. What is a Type R fan boy to do?!

Defect to a Megane R26 :) The RenaultSport boys are also quite good at creating sums greater than their parts.

NeoNode
21-06-2007, 11:39 AM
Honda DB8R anyone? LOL!

aaronng
21-06-2007, 11:43 AM
Keiichi does have good opinions, but EVO rated them both. So I need to expand beyond EVO, but obviously your Japanese is better than mine! (well you probably used google)

Thanks for the complement. I did Japanese at school. Helps with all the new Best Motoring issues that have no subtitles. But the volume with the EuroR had english subtitles too (which was pretty terrible in my opinion)



Anyway aaron, if the CTR is a Type R in your eyes, then so be it. For me, I watched the DC5R come out in 2001 and now 6 years later in 2007 I see very little difference between it and the CTR. What is a Type R fan boy to do?!
I don't really care if the CTR is a real Type R. To me, all it is is a sub $40,000 hot hatch, in the same class as the GTI. Just because a car has the Type R name doesn't mean that it is good. Judge each car individually I say. Heck, if the JDM CTR was called a Civic Extra, if it had all the necessities of a track car, then I'd consider it a good daily driver that can go on the track (i.e. the original objective of a Type R).

mpd076-chuck
21-06-2007, 11:47 AM
Honda DB8R

Ha Ha! oops...
:thumbsup:

lilwilliam
21-06-2007, 12:40 PM
does the ctr have a lsd?

matt
21-06-2007, 12:52 PM
no it doesnt

lilwilliam
21-06-2007, 12:56 PM
dam that sucks.

UNLS1
21-06-2007, 01:56 PM
man this is one of the best threads i have seen on here, so many good opinions! and for 16 pages its kept so nice and clean! well done blokes!

I just took the CTR for a spin just then.....theres alot i want to say but u cant tell much after drivin it for like 15mins.

Im takin it home friday night so ill post up my thoughts on sat!

R123
21-06-2007, 02:21 PM
mate.... u the man UNLS1... wot colour is ur CTR? black?


have fun with ur CTR :)

krazibone
21-06-2007, 02:22 PM
man this is one of the best threads i have seen on here, so many good opinions! and for 16 pages its kept so nice and clean! well done blokes!

I just took the CTR for a spin just then.....theres alot i want to say but u cant tell much after drivin it for like 15mins.

Im takin it home friday night so ill post up my thoughts on sat!

Take some happy snaps as well!

Zdster
21-06-2007, 02:28 PM
mate.... u the man UNLS1... wot colour is ur CTR? black?

have fun with ur CTR :)

He works at a dealership.

UNLS1
21-06-2007, 02:29 PM
lol i drove a silver one, im now looking at the black one.
and we just sold the red one!

vupham
21-06-2007, 02:56 PM
I still dont understand, Honda JP already developed the CTR and alread in production, so why Honda Aus cant get them available for us? It doesnt hurt the market to have the JP CTR as another option for some enthusiests, plus its a 4 door so you can put baby seats in and drive your parents around. That way ppl who loves the hatches can get the UK CTR and the sedans can get the JP CTR, whoever is a hardcore type r fan will know which one to choose. Get rid of the Civic vti-L, so we have civic vti for the standard, civic sports for the ones with spare money, civic hybrid for peaceful ones, UK CTR for the hatch lovers, JP CTR for the JDM enthusiests. Really, just give us 10 JP CTR in AUS and see if it sells in the 1st month, it all honda so im sure it doesnt hurt them that much to make 10 extra to experiment aus market.

Zdster
21-06-2007, 03:00 PM
I still dont understand, Honda JP already developed the CTR and alread in production, so why Honda Aus cant get them available for us? It doesnt hurt the market to have the JP CTR as another option for some enthusiests, plus its a 4 door so you can put baby seats in and drive your parents around. That way ppl who loves the hatches can get the UK CTR and the sedans can get the JP CTR, whoever is a hardcore type r fan will know which one to choose. Get rid of the Civic vti-L, so we have civic vti for the standard, civic sports for the ones with spare money, civic hybrid for peaceful ones, UK CTR for the hatch lovers, JP CTR for the JDM enthusiests. Really, just give us 10 JP CTR in AUS and see if it sells in the 1st month, it all honda so im sure it doesnt hurt them that much to make 10 extra to experiment aus market.

The issue as I would see it is that Honda AU would still have to go through the full ADR and registration process for the Japanese car (which as has been discussed) costs both time and money. To cover those costs they have to sell more units so it starts to become a 'cost benefit analysis' type situation.

pkn
21-06-2007, 03:05 PM
Guys,

Just took it for a quick wrap down the street. Feels pretty punchy, nice and tight, nice sounding engine & good brakes.

I think its definately a step in the right direction.

I'm sure UNLS1 will give a better review than I lol...

As for vupham, mate its so easy to talk about it in theory, but to make it reality is near impossible. There are so many factors with bringing another car here. You have no idea how hard it was to get the UKCTR for our market.

UNLS1
21-06-2007, 03:12 PM
the biggest issue was quality! the britts arnt known for quality built cars. At the launch i talked to the 2 blokes from honda UK about the quality. It was amazing the stuff they were goin on about. This car in Aus is a massive thing for honda UK!

Honda aus believe there are 3 smiles to this car
1. When u look at it
2.When u sit in it
3. When u drive it

i had a small hard on after my quick drive hahahahaha j/k
ill post up sat morn.

mpd076-chuck
21-06-2007, 03:15 PM
Looking forward to hearing the first hand reports.

Zdster
21-06-2007, 03:21 PM
the biggest issue was quality! the britts arnt known for quality built cars. At the launch i talked to the 2 blokes from honda UK about the quality. It was amazing the stuff they were goin on about. This car in Aus is a massive thing for honda UK!

Honda aus believe there are 3 smiles to this car
1. When u look at it
2.When u sit in it
3. When u drive it

i had a small hard on after my quick drive hahahahaha j/k
ill post up sat morn.

Personally I have a :( about no. 1, but fair enough.

UNLS1
21-06-2007, 03:38 PM
yeah its like that. its goin to come down to person opinions i think.
im getting alot of i love it so much
and omg the front looks great but the back looks shocking!

industrie
21-06-2007, 03:40 PM
PICTURES OR BAN....omg show us pictures...and give us a proper review..time to book a test drive!!!

denot
21-06-2007, 03:45 PM
PICTURES OR BAN....omg show us pictures...and give us a proper review..time to book a test drive!!!

is it possible just to have test drive? or do we have to look like we wanna buy it? :p

qstoria
21-06-2007, 03:45 PM
i reckon "true" type R's are all going to be in the form of k-swaps from now on in aus :p

at least we will have a few more k20a's for sale in the next 12 months.. thanks CTR owners :thumbsup:

TypeG
21-06-2007, 03:58 PM
44k drive away is not bad for a CTR except this ugly Honda...

Type-X
21-06-2007, 04:05 PM
teh euro typeR is waste of money, JDM typeR is much better

TypeG
21-06-2007, 04:31 PM
teh euro typeR is waste of money, JDM typeR is much better

agree

JDM CTR got 221kw and our dodgy one got 186kw

for 44k, i rather get another hot hatch not a copy 206 LOL

qstoria
21-06-2007, 04:36 PM
agree

JDM CTR got 221kw and our dodgy one got 186kw

for 44k, i rather get another hot hatch not a copy 206 LOL



um ill take a 186 kw k20a CTR. just not a 148kw one

krazibone
21-06-2007, 04:36 PM
agree

JDM CTR got 221kw and our dodgy one got 186kw

for 44k, i rather get another hot hatch not a copy 206 LOL

Thanks for your constructive opinion. JDM honda forum that way =>

xenfacta
21-06-2007, 04:53 PM
umm the jdm ctr is 165kW

http://http://www.honda.co.jp/CIVICTYPE-R/webcatalog/engine/ (http://www.honda.co.jp/CIVICTYPE-R/webcatalog/engine/)

industrie
21-06-2007, 04:59 PM
i love it how all the young honda fans who dont really understand where the market is talk about power and performance...if you want something fast get a turbo car or something V8 and above...i think until they understand where the business is going and whats viable for profits, you will always get those comments...until then we have a UK type R and thats all australia will get and that is to compete in the hot hatch market!

Tofu
21-06-2007, 05:13 PM
Please do review it, but when doing a review about your test drive in a CTR...please let us know what car you own/drive daily...
because if you own an EVO (i know this is a Honda forum, but for argument sake lets say someone here does own an EVO), your opinion about the CTR's drive/handling/etc can be read differently. On the other hand, if you have a Holden Barina, of course you will be impressed by the CTR.

Weq
21-06-2007, 05:18 PM
To use another Porsche analogy (albeit exaggerated) that some might better understand... Don't build a Cayenne and call it a 911. There is a large 911 fan base, (undoubtedly bigger and deeper pocketed than purist Type R fans,) and when you continue to put out products that don't display the integraty (pun intended :) ) from which the fans had formed their loyalty, then you will screw all that awareness and goodwill that had been built with the people (like me) who had purchased in to that brand. If Porsche tomorrow said that they'd stop making 911s and future models will be front engined and weigh 2 tonnes, I doubt that they will continue to be the most profitable car company in the world.

I have fallen deeply for the DC2R (sad but true), I'm fortunate not to be limited financially to virtually any mainstream performance car available on the market, but I choose to be patient, for someone to make something that is worthy of my dollars, something that displays that the manufacturer has really moved the game on from the DC2R. From what I've seen of the FD2, this hits a lot of those buttons. For now, I still have an affinity with Honda (and Porsches!), but if the Japanese folk were not creating the cars they are in Honda Japan, my affinity with Honda will slowly dissolve and I will not place them as first preference among the Japanese makers, they may as well become a Toyota and build as many mundane Civics as they can to bolster their balance sheets, then people with a loyalty like me will not place them first on the list to earn my money. They will just become another maker of a commodity from which I can choose between a whole host of generic suppliers. Yes, Honda is a commercial entity in business to make money, but Soichiro also recognised that there is an intangible factor in creating halo cars that say something about their capabilities that don't necessarily make them any money on those particular niche cars, but say a lot about Honda, and in particular Type R. This UK CTR says to me... I just want to sell as many of these things as I can...the bigger the subwoofer, the better. I suppose even the Pussycat dolls make money in the music industry :), but in time, they will slowly fade away (hopefully) in to irrelevance, like Type R if Honda Aus keeps telling people like me that sat nav and electric power steering is more worthy than genuine performance and driver involvement.

I don't mind the fact that the JDM car is a 4 door, I know in the results that it weighs even less than this 3 door car we're getting...and I have more confidence that those clever people in Japan has pored over the minute details to extract as much performance as possible within the Type R ethos. They didn't come to the conclusion that it could do without an LSD...they've shown us in the comparative lap times that it is a very effective machine despite the 4 door layout.

I leave you now with the image of Ayrton Senna driving the NSX Type R around Suzuka (if you haven't seen it, youtube it, it's worth it). Now, there is a core appeal of true Type R, whether it be an NSX, Civic or Integra. The only image I associate with the UK CTR are hats worn backwards and neon lights driving down Chapel st wif da doof doof cranked up to 11.

Oh my god. I cant remmber the last time i read such a fantastic post on ozhonda.

*hats off*

mpd076-chuck
21-06-2007, 05:20 PM
i love it how all the young honda fans who dont really understand where the market is talk about power and performance...if you want something fast get a turbo car or something V8 and above...

Us young 30 year old's understand where the market is... and don't understand why people are falling over themselves for a car that on paper seems like very little improvement over a DC5R, six years on.

Guess we wait and see how it drives for the final verdict.

mpd076-chuck
21-06-2007, 05:24 PM
Oh my god. I cant remmber the last time i read such a fantastic post on ozhonda.

*hats off*

Seconded.

UNLS1
21-06-2007, 07:12 PM
i have a very open opinion, i understand the market, im a honda dealer...

My opinion is open coz i love my cars. Ive had 3 holdens my last a 5.7lt V8 that i miss so much.
I have lernt since being in the auto industry no to be one eyed!
I love the new CTR, i love all hondas in general for what the are and what they do!
I still love my V8s, ive drivin golf gtis, XR5 and most other cars that compete against hondas too.
Im on here coz i love hondas, my holden mates bag me but i dont care as they are the one eyed bogans who have no idea! I love the golf GTi too, i even love ford XR6 turbos....

anyhow i do what i do coz i love it! and im so very proud to work for honda and sell such a good product!
Im going to purchase another V8 soon so i can have the best of both worlds!

Sorry for this post, i may sound like a loser but i dont care!
P.s i cant wait to take the CTR home tom night lol

[200]
21-06-2007, 08:13 PM
What engine does it have? K20A what?

jeffske
21-06-2007, 09:08 PM
is this any quicker then the EP3?
EP3's seem to have a $32k asking price, who in their right mind would pay $32k for an EP3 when the new CTR is $40k

sitta
21-06-2007, 09:26 PM
is this any quicker then the EP3?
EP3's seem to have a $32k asking price, who in their right mind would pay $32k for an EP3 when the new CTR is $40k

You made a good point there, i am getting my civic type r in a couple of weeks, i even considered the ep3 but looking at their price which is around 28-32 k is just ridiculous. I might consider the ep3 if it cost 20 - 25k

mpd076-chuck
21-06-2007, 10:22 PM
I test drove an EP3 and it's a great car, but I agree it's a mid 20's car. I think you will find you can negotiate that 32K asking price down well into the 20's and they will settle around that price as more come in.

mpd076-chuck
21-06-2007, 10:29 PM
is this any quicker then the EP3?
EP3's seem to have a $32k asking price, who in their right mind would pay $32k for an EP3 when the new CTR is $40k

Have to wait and see if it is quicker, but I doubt it.

EP3 158kW, 1200kg 7.6kg/kW
AUCTR 148kW, 1345kg 9kg/kW

However, the AUCTR has lower gearing with a FD of 5.062 versus EP3 4.764, which will help it make up the power to weight deficit.

Is the AUCTR 40K on road? I thought 40K plus on-road costs?

sitta
21-06-2007, 11:08 PM
Have to wait and see if it is quicker, but I doubt it.

EP3 158kW, 1200kg 7.6kg/kW
AUCTR 148kW, 1345kg 9kg/kW

However, the AUCTR has lower gearing with a FD of 5.062 versus EP3 4.764, which will help it make up the power to weight deficit.

Is the AUCTR 40K on road? I thought 40K plus on-road costs?

is the ep3 158 kw? arent they build in uk and has the same k20 as the new ctr?

aaronng
21-06-2007, 11:13 PM
is the ep3 158 kw? arent they build in uk and has the same k20 as the new ctr?

JDM EP3 gets a 215ps engine, compared to UK's 200hp.

yfin
22-06-2007, 09:56 PM
There is a review of the CTR in July 07 Motor mag. Mixed review - ride not so good as was road noise. Weight listed as 1345kg which is suspect as the base euro is 1375kg.

aaronng
22-06-2007, 10:00 PM
There is a review of the CTR in July 07 Motor mag. Mixed review - ride not so good as was road noise. Weight listed as 1345kg which is suspect as the base euro is 1375kg. Either way - this hot hatch weighs too much for its power.

Did they list the 0-100km/h and 400m times?

The Euro also got the same thing about choppy ride and road noise with the michelins back in 2003.

yfin
22-06-2007, 10:04 PM
Did they list the 0-100km/h and 400m times?

The Euro also got the same thing about choppy ride and road noise with the michelins back in 2003.

Nope - no testing. There is a good break out piece on the JDM Type R and they discuss how much better the JDM version is. They also say "while both cars weigh in at 1270kg"| - in reference to the JDM and European CTR. Not sure why there are so many weight figures for the same car.

fasthonda
22-06-2007, 11:18 PM
I also have the Motor Mag.These reviewers over the years have been spoilt with cars such as BMWs Mercs,etc and they expect superb handling/roadholding and not a hint of vibration or hardness in the ride of a $40,000 car,for goodness sake it's a Type R!The grandpa reviewer in the Motor mag should not be given the job of reviewing sports cars but luxury cars eg Audi A8etc.
The JDM Civic Type R apparently has a VERY hard suspension set up so they would sook about that to ad infinitum

qstoria
22-06-2007, 11:21 PM
i still reckon Honda Aus etc have given us the bare minimum with this 'type R'.

result = wouldnt even consider buying one. 45 grand on road.. ill buy a dc2r or dc5r and modify with the change.

UNLS1
23-06-2007, 09:26 AM
OK my mini review, im not going to sound like an auto writer just a normal car lover. (not just honda)

Well i chucked guns n roses in the cd player, welcome to the jungle comes on, i drive out and after 3rd gear i realise i dont need music on, the car sound bloody horn!
Im gunna kind of compare to my old demo the 06 type S integra. The seats are fantastic, so strong and firm and me being 6'3" hold me in just perfect. The old type S seats were the worst seats ever, didnt do squat!
The gear box is just awsome, smooth quick gear changes that are pretty much effortles. Once this car gets to about 5 1/2 grand i tell u wat the roar is unbelievable. It sounds nothing like the old type S. It screams! and its great watchin the lil vtec light light up!

I decided to take the mrs for a spin around the yarra bend (for melb people u know where it is) being 830pm dark as can be and a lil mist rain. Its like it was ment for the twisties, ive taken heaps of new cars round this bend and this one seems the best so far, its more like being stuck on rails the whole time, VSA had to work a lil but did a great job at all times of need. Doin those bends u dont really need the breaks that much just alot of gear changing from 2nd to 3rd and back again, if u hit 4th u would be doin over 100.

The breaking is outstanding also, it pulls up hard and the ABS comes on at the last 2nd.
The one thing with this car is the sound its just amazing and u want to hear it all the time.

Now if i was given a teg type S i would hand it back, shocking seats, very poor turning circle, crap saftey features, bad blind spots and just annoying to drive in everyday traffic.
I think the best thing about the CTR is u could drive it as a daily and it drives just like a normal car with comfort and ease. The 2nd u want to drive it like it should u have a different car again!

Watching a 50yo man pick up his red one yesterday was a great feeling, hes had a few civics before, hell he even had the 1st one to come to aus in the 70's! He was like a child, couldnt wait to get in and drive it and had the biggest smile ever. In this business @ honda where ive been for 3 years i cant remember the last time we had a customer so happy and excited about a new car. We took his pic of him next to it and sent it to honda aus telling them it was good to get that feeling back again.

Now some of u arnt happy its not a true type R i understand but makin it this way opens it up to a larger market. Id take this over the jap type R sedan as i think that just looks like a normal vti civic riced up with a big wing and has no appeal to me visually( i know the donk is more powerful ect).

Im going to sell one today to an older mother whos kids have grown up and she wants to get rid of the 7 seater and have a lil sports car she can enjoy! i think thats great!

We are finding a few of the performance car people are now ordering them to!
Im also about to get my old man out of the SS and into one and he is very excited.

Just remember this is just my opinion on the car, i love it, i would drive one everyday and i still cant get the smile of my face after driving it, i even had to get the XR5 out at work and drive it just to make sure i wasnt getting to excited over nothing, well i wasnt!

james

Sidor
23-06-2007, 09:46 AM
OK my mini review, im not going to sound like an auto writer just a normal car lover. (not just honda)

Well i chucked guns n roses in the cd player, welcome to the jungle comes on, i drive out and after 3rd gear i realise i dont need music on, the car sound bloody horn!
Im gunna kind of compare to my old demo the 06 type S integra. The seats are fantastic, so strong and firm and me being 6'3" hold me in just perfect. The old type S seats were the worst seats ever, didnt do squat!
The gear box is just awsome, smooth quick gear changes that are pretty much effortles. Once this car gets to about 5 1/2 grand i tell u wat the roar is unbelievable. It sounds nothing like the old type S. It screams! and its great watchin the lil vtec light light up!

I decided to take the mrs for a spin around the yarra bend (for melb people u know where it is) being 830pm dark as can be and a lil mist rain. Its like it was ment for the twisties, ive taken heaps of new cars round this bend and this one seems the best so far, its more like being stuck on rails the whole time, VSA had to work a lil but did a great job at all times of need. Doin those bends u dont really need the breaks that much just alot of gear changing from 2nd to 3rd and back again, if u hit 4th u would be doin over 100.

The breaking is outstanding also, it pulls up hard and the ABS comes on at the last 2nd.
The one thing with this car is the sound its just amazing and u want to hear it all the time.

Now if i was given a teg type S i would hand it back, shocking seats, very poor turning circle, crap saftey features, bad blind spots and just annoying to drive in everyday traffic.
I think the best thing about the CTR is u could drive it as a daily and it drives just like a normal car with comfort and ease. The 2nd u want to drive it like it should u have a different car again!

Watching a 50yo man pick up his red one yesterday was a great feeling, hes had a few civics before, hell he even had the 1st one to come to aus in the 70's! He was like a child, couldnt wait to get in and drive it and had the biggest smile ever. In this business @ honda where ive been for 3 years i cant remember the last time we had a customer so happy and excited about a new car. We took his pic of him next to it and sent it to honda aus telling them it was good to get that feeling back again.

Now some of u arnt happy its not a true type R i understand but makin it this way opens it up to a larger market. Id take this over the jap type R sedan as i think that just looks like a normal vti civic riced up with a big wing and has no appeal to me visually( i know the donk is more powerful ect).

Im going to sell one today to an older mother whos kids have grown up and she wants to get rid of the 7 seater and have a lil sports car she can enjoy! i think thats great!

We are finding a few of the performance car people are now ordering them to!
Im also about to get my old man out of the SS and into one and he is very excited.

Just remember this is just my opinion on the car, i love it, i would drive one everyday and i still cant get the smile of my face after driving it, i even had to get the XR5 out at work and drive it just to make sure i wasnt getting to excited over nothing, well i wasnt!

james

u are doing a good job for Honda Australia !
Do they pay u well for these reviews ?
just joking ... :)

UNLS1
23-06-2007, 10:29 AM
lol no they dont!

I forgot to say a few bad things....some of the plastics dont line up, in some ways the thai civics a better in some parts and others the uk quality is better than thai. Its hard to explain unless i point it out in the car.
Remembering the engine and gear box is out of japan too.

It takes a bit of getting used to looking in ur rear view and seeing the spoiler split up the rear window too.

Wazza
23-06-2007, 11:51 AM
I test drove the Type R this morning and put down a deposit, with the car arriving in approximately 3 weeks. Very very impressive I must say, I was hesitant of the look of the rear but once you see it in person in it blends in with the rest of the car quite well, and looking at the rear from the a distance it looks great. In comparing it to my Integra VTi-R (Hondata, Toda header, Mugen cat back, Injen CAI, 116kw atw) I would say the Civic Type R is definately as quick, but it is so much smoother than my old Integra and seems to take less effort. The gearbox and clutch... delicious. What I was most impressed with is the interior features, they definately compare to a luxury car.

My criticisms are the fuel filler cap, the quality and finish of it is absolutely crap, I don't know why Honda didn't make it colour coded and have it flush with the rear panel like any other Honda. The driving position, for me at 5'8'' the steering wheel obscured the view of the tacho, and after about 10 minutes of adjusting the seat and steering wheel I still couldn't find a position where I could fully see it. Finally the position of the rear spoiler, visability is pretty poor, again why didn't Honda position the spoiler at the top of the window like the concept car.

Overall I was very impressed with the car, and the service and deal I received from my dealer. Just for a comparison I test drove the Golf GTi, Renault Megane Sport, Honda Accord Euro, and the Subaru WRX.

UNLS1
23-06-2007, 12:20 PM
Well done wazza very happy for ya mate! ;-)

ATSE
23-06-2007, 12:29 PM
Hey Wazza

How does the CTR compare to the Golf Gti?

industrie
23-06-2007, 01:13 PM
i went in and checked the car out today at robert lane...its fantastic, looks hot comfortable and seriously the looks grow on you...the wheels look fantastic..as agreed the spoiler is in the way of the rear, but you can get used to it...either black or red would be the best colour for this car...im itching to trade my euro lux for this car haha...but well see after i can get a test drive and find out what its really like! but overall everyone whos seen it in the flesh and is looking for a new car has given it a the thumbs up

yfin
23-06-2007, 02:42 PM
I had a look at the Civic today too - test driving next Saturday. It is impressive and lots of room in the rear seats too (although head room in rear seats not so good for tall passengers). I don't see 2 doors vs 4 doors as a huge inconvenience as access to the rear is very good. Boot space - good. Mirrors - massive and very good. Space saver tyre - not so good. As is the plastic fuel filler cap - really bad.

Some other observations.
The engine bay is very tight and compact. I can't see fitting a strut brace as possible as one tower is hidden. Fitting aftermarket exhaust could be problematic too given the way the exhaust finishers are designed. So perhaps not the car for people keen to modify.

Seats are quite comfy but not very broad (I found it tight in the thighs but the back was perfect) so if you are a "chunky" person you might find it a tight fit or even uncomfortable on long drives.

I have the optional accessory list (but no prices)- if people want me to I can scan it up here...

Wazza
23-06-2007, 05:04 PM
Hey Wazza

How does the CTR compare to the Golf Gti?

Looks wise, the Civic wins hands down in my view, as I found the Golf very bland both interior wise and exterior wise. But the Civic is very in your face, while the Golf is understated, its personal choice I suppose and I can see why a person would buy either car. My concern with the Golf was that in order to get it to how I wanted, ie replacing the crappy 'scottish kilt' seats with leather and getting the DSG I would be looking at well over $50K, and then to also get the colour I wanted with those options I would be looking at a three month wait.

Accessory and specification wise, the Civic again wins again. Although I am a sucker for the little gadgets in the Civic like the folding mirrors and climate controlled glove box. I think Honda has done very well to have such a well kitted out car for under $40k.

Driving wise, very very close. The useable power on the Golf is amazing, down low it still pulls, but I guess you can expect that from a turbocharged car with superior torque. On the otherhand, you have to rev the **** off the Civic to get into useable power, but it loves it, which is what we all love about Honda engines. The DSG on the Golf is absolutely amazing, it cannot be compared to any tiptronic, completely different. The gearchange is instantaneous, and when you are belting it, the gearchange gets you right in the powerband again. Then again its about a $3000 option, but I would love to see the Civic with DSG. On the road I also found the Golf to almost float when pressed hard in corners, which made me very uneasy.

At the end of the day I love Hondas so I chose the Civic, but both cars are exceptional.

kanishkaz
23-06-2007, 05:38 PM
Hey Guys,

I just test drove one today. And i'm telling ya, it was fantastic.

I got to drive a Red one. Took me awhile to get used to the fact that the indicators were on the right hand drive like in european cars :p, but after i got over that the drive was just awesome.

The acceleration is really good and it just takes off when you get it upto around 5000 rpm. Had a really hard time keeping it at 60km/h in 60 zones. The handling was very responsive, even though its got electronic steering.

And let me tell ya, this is one head turna of a car, everybody from little kids to old grannies were turning around to have a look at it.

I liked the interior and found the seats to be pretty comfy and kept me in place. Had a couple of my mates in the back seat and they said it was the same back there as well.

Personally i loved driving this car and am hoping to buy one as soon as i can afford one :D

I guess it's not a proper review but thought of sharing my experience with you guys.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

yfin
23-06-2007, 05:43 PM
kanishkaz (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=12090) - unless you are on the track - pls be careful what you post -particularly any reference to illegal road speeds.

UNLS1
24-06-2007, 01:19 PM
good to see some people drivin it!
The thing about these cars is u get heaps of dreamers just commin in wanting to drive it but have no intention of buying a new car at all. But usually after chattin to them a bit u can find out if they are genuine or not.

I wont take any tom dick or harry for a test drive if they just come in and go let me drive one...

fasthonda
24-06-2007, 02:15 PM
good to see some people drivin it!
The thing about these cars is u get heaps of dreamers just commin in wanting to drive it but have no intention of buying a new car at all. But usually after chattin to them a bit u can find out if they are genuine or not.

I wont take any tom dick or harry for a test drive if they just come in and go let me drive one...

Luckily,my name is Joe :D
I took a look at the Type R on Saturday,I didn't take it for a test drive(that may come later ,after some financial considerations) The car in person,looks quite stunning,some reviewers have said that the shape may date quickly.INMHO,the shape has actually dated the competitors,such as the Golf GTI,XR5 and Megane RS.
The seats are good ,however, if your backside happens to be very big you may find it uncomfortable ,especially on longer trips.
Just looking at the unique dash gave me a feeling of being in a "special" car.
I hope the sales go very well,because we may later see a continued effort by Honda to bring in more Type R/sports cars especially if Thailand gears up for such cars ,I'm sure that they would be very competitive price wise.

BlitZ
24-06-2007, 02:38 PM
AUS get like only 10% of the whole JDM car types...
Another sad fact is that honda around the world are rebadging unoptimised hondas as type r's and its currently killing the type r marque.

Type R's were once advertised as a Race Car from the box
I no longer hear that or believe that with the later versions.

I honestly cant see the same thing happening to the japanese domestic market. They would seriously loose face if they were to name one of the current, later r's as a type r in jap as their flagship model for the make.

nevertheless the badge sells.. its all about sales and profits

ginganggooly
24-06-2007, 04:50 PM
I thought there was no way that it'd be that porky, but the honda aust website lists its mass as 1345kg...

Is the jdm version as obese as ours?

NeoNode
24-06-2007, 05:00 PM
I thought there was no way that it'd be that porky, but the honda aust website lists its mass as 1345kg...

Is the jdm version as obese as ours?
JDM 4 door CTR weighs in at 1270kg.

BlitZ
24-06-2007, 07:54 PM
JDM 4 door CTR weighs in at 1270kg.

damn.. how did the little hatch get so porky.

what a fat biach:thumbsup: more cushion for the pushin

sitta
24-06-2007, 08:18 PM
how it get so heavy? the fn2 ist still light its just that the jdm type r is extremely light. Jdm type r got no stereo system not even a speaker. they did everything to keep the weight down while the Fn2 got 6 speakers, etc etc. the fn actually weights around 1270 as well but the gt model adds foglights etc

BlitZ
24-06-2007, 09:02 PM
how it get so heavy? the fn2 ist still light its just that the jdm type r is extremely light. Jdm type r got no stereo system not even a speaker. they did everything to keep the weight down while the Fn2 got 6 speakers, etc etc. the fn actually weights around 1270 as well but the gt model adds foglights etc

tare weights
dc2r is like 1040kg
ek4 is like 1100
ek9 even lighter

I have actually seen the actual weight being fairly close with cars having the std stero, speakers a/c p/s etc etc

mpd076-chuck
24-06-2007, 11:38 PM
DC2R is 1087 tare, which is fairly accurate as I've had mine weighed a few times.

In defence of FN2, I still think it will be a great drive even if the philosophy is different to past R's. The lock is 2.3 turns and sounds like the sussy is nice and tight. It's just that this R comes with creature comforts, which as everybody says, should capture a larger market.

Personally I'd love a nasty stripped out light-weight bugger, but I think that's minority thinking.

ginganggooly
25-06-2007, 08:56 AM
how it get so heavy? the fn2 ist still light its just that the jdm type r is extremely light. Jdm type r got no stereo system not even a speaker. they did everything to keep the weight down while the Fn2 got 6 speakers, etc etc. the fn actually weights around 1270 as well but the gt model adds foglights etc

The ctr specs don't excite me. It needs another 20kw. The power to weight ratio of the ctr isn't that much better than a manual euro std. I'm not usually one to race cars based on stats, but:
Euro - 140kw 223nm 1375kg
Civic - 148kw 193nm 1345kg

Fix up the final drive in the euro, get some good suspension in there and you've still got change when compared with the ctr.

ginganggooly
25-06-2007, 08:57 AM
Personally I'd love a nasty stripped out light-weight bugger, but I think that's minority thinking.

Amen :thumbsup:

slipangle
25-06-2007, 10:06 AM
DC2R is 1087 tare, which is fairly accurate as I've had mine weighed a few times.

In defence of FN2, I still think it will be a great drive even if the philosophy is different to past R's. The lock is 2.3 turns and sounds like the sussy is nice and tight. It's just that this R comes with creature comforts, which as everybody says, should capture a larger market.

Personally I'd love a nasty stripped out light-weight bugger, but I think that's minority thinking.

re: Minority thinking - I say, don't be swayed by popular opinion. If your opinion is what you believe based on what you know, then that is your truth. Paris Hilton's pretty popular, but I still don't give two tosses whether she exists or not. Quite often catalysts for change arise from the opinions of the few.

Here's something else I know - there is a shroud that goes around the rear brake disc. Presumably this is to give the illusion that it doesn't look so small. Now, I don't doubt that the brakes are capable of handling repeated hard stops (and would be even better if it didn't have to haul up all that weight!), but why does Honda think that my ego is so fragile that it has to place meaningless style influenced items on a car purported to offer a race car derived experience?!. Do they think that we'd be blinkered by engine start buttons, metal painted fuel filler caps and fake rotor enlargers not to appreciate genuine engineering genius that we know Honda are capable of?.

Where is the ingenuinity? or do manufacturers nowadays expect us to just keep lapping up four wheeled tamagotchis and furbys just by adding a bit of marketing waffle?

I also don't doubt that the FN2 is a decent enough drive in absolute terms, but relative to what we know Honda is capable of, it still doesn't capture the sort of excitement and appreciation we come to expect of a Type R product. Honda's set the bar quite high in the past, is it unreasonable of us to keep asking them to be able to keep jumping over it? or are we happy just to say that that bar is no longer valid cos everyone just wants big boot space and window dressing?

ginganggooly
25-06-2007, 10:23 AM
It looks to me, like a cynical attempt to leverage off the image of Honda's past Type-R successes with a half baked marketing exercise.

Fair enough, it'll probably sell, but this CTR is really going to bastardise the Type-R monicker.

bennjamin
25-06-2007, 10:31 AM
would you all agree , in the same sense as the last Type R to grace our shores ? Just a half-cooked detuned model for the aussie market ?

ginganggooly
25-06-2007, 10:58 AM
would you all agree , in the same sense as the last Type R to grace our shores ? Just a half-cooked detuned model for the aussie market ?

To a degree... At least the DC5R was light and had an LSD.

krazibone
25-06-2007, 11:01 AM
Could it be heavier because street cars have to meet international safety requirements? Meaning a lot of air bags along with nifty gadgets is making the car abit more heavier then the previous type r's? Does the JDM version have all of those included? Sorry i didn't check the specs on the JDM version.

I'm sure it would be just as light he all those were removed.

industrie
25-06-2007, 11:24 AM
i would think that all the airbags and luxury comforts is what the market demands, they do survey not only for there own customers but look at competitors and you have to match that competition...yes take out all the creature comforts and you can have the type R at 1200kg no worries