22mm rear swaybar q

[55EXX]

hi i'm new to this forum and have done a good couple of nights searching trying to find info on the subframe tearouts that can happen with fitting a aftermarket swaybar. i will be fitting a whiteline 22mm rear swaybar. i currently have the 24mm solid bar up front and so far from what i have read think the 22mm should bring the balance back to around stock or a little bit more to the rear, which is what i am after.

I have a EK1 CXi and its my daily driver. I have so far fitted king springs and kyb shocks which provide me a smoother ride, which i am after and am now getting the sways to prevent roll. i have a little understanding about how for track its better to have stiffer springs/damper with no/little sways at the sacrifice of comfort whereas street softer springs and damper with roll controlled by sways without making as big of a sacrifice of comfort which has been what i have been aiming for.

now i know because of my softer springs, during cornering more stress will therefore be put onto my sways and therefore my subframe increasing the risk of tears. given my car is only a daily driver, with not so sticky tyres and will never be tracked, but just taken on spirted drives through the ranges at the most, would i still need the asr kit that reinforces the subframe? would the supplied strenghtening kit that bolts a high tensile steel plate supplied be enough as i dissapates the stress over a wider area?
here is a pic
http://undergroundimports.com.au/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1010010~10.JPG

or the supplied strengthening kit and a rear lower tie bar like the asm all motor monster in this link http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles/AS_0308_susp_2.htm

i really don't wanna fork out for a asr kit but i do wanna use the 22mm rear bar to balance out my 24mm that is fitted at the moment and has amplified understeer dramatically :(

Thanyou for your advice in advance.

[riruiz_88]

hey man, a while ago i was goin to invest in a rear sway for my EG. but when i came down to order, Whiteline said that they were out of stock because they had to "re-engineer" the sways for honda cars. not sure if they are off market still but just thought i would tell u so u dont get ur hopes up like i did lol. but as to ur question, Whiteline give you everything you need for installation of the bar. were you thinking of changing the mounts of the sway bar to ASR cause they are stronger?

[supersamEK]

i drove around in my GLi a while back for a long time, with 22mm Swaybar and the same fitting kit u got pictured. I never had any problems with it.
I reckon ur suspension has to be pretty stiff, or drive ur car pretty hard on sticky tyres, or just be unlucky for something to happen to ur subframe. That just from my experience though.
I thinks that kind of kit would be fine.

Although whiteline has released their new re-engineered sway bar reinforcement and its quite similar to the ASR brace. there is thread about the sway bar kit around.
That sway setup in the all monster article is now obsolete.

[DR HONDA]

Dont waist your time with those brackets and a 22mm sway bar as this will still tear. Only solid 100% fix for the ek is the ASR subframe kit. You can purchase from
http://passwordjdm.com or
Yonas @ http://jdmyard.com

[turtleEK1]

i got the very sway bar in my EK1... its got the new whiteline subframe brace...

looks quite sturdy and made a good upgrade from my old 18mm whiteline sway

[DR HONDA]

The whitline brace eventually rips the chassis furhter up the crossmember with time.

[55EXX]

i have read that the 22mm whiteline sway does not fit with the asr kit tho. is passwordjdm an australian site? so its only AU$189.99 plus postage?

supersamEK so how hard did you drive your GLi? i have 215/35/18's khumo's front and nexens rear and they are not sticky at all really compared to semi slicks or even good brand tyres etc and i will never track my car so i should be right too hey? in the kit you purchased did that bracket/brace in the pic come with the kit supplied?

i just don't wanna tear my subframe as i have seen on this forum. i am not after everyweekend bulletproof track warrior stuff just enough for street use. dr honda would under non tack conditions would this tearing further up still happen? how is yours turtleEK1? is the brace like that of the one in my pic?

[DR HONDA]

i have read that the 22mm whiteline sway does not fit with the asr kit tho. is passwordjdm an australian site? so its only AU$189.99 plus postage?

supersamEK so how hard did you drive your GLi? i have 215/35/18's khumo's front and nexens rear and they are not sticky at all really compared to semi slicks or even good brand tyres etc and i will never track my car so i should be right too hey? in the kit you purchased did that bracket/brace in the pic come with the kit supplied?

i just don't wanna tear my subframe as i have seen on this forum. i am not after everyweekend bulletproof track warrior stuff just enough for street use. dr honda would under non tack conditions would this tearing further up still happen? how is yours turtleEK1? is the brace like that of the one in my pic?
The ctr rear sway bar and the asr kit fit purfect on the ek. Will post some pics tommorrow of mine as i need to jack it up for a couple adjustments

[55EXX]

and prices please... i can get it at trade price too maybe also... the 22mm whiteline complete kit with brace like in my pic will ony cost me a touch over $180 new

thanks for all the replys! i was pretty set on the 22mm whiteline item but i am only a noobie... show me the light

[EG30]

with a 24mm bar up front you want to get a rear bar that is as stiff as possible to quell the newly increased understeer from the front bar.

[55EXX]

yeah its pretty bad for corner entry and exit. my car never used to break traction out of corners but now i even break it in the dry! my auto box driven by a d16 (yeah pathetic i know) even snaps into huge wheelspin as it goes up into second accelerating through the last part of a tight corner!

the 22mm is the biggest whiteline have for the rear and have read the 24mm front pairs nicely with the 22mm rear. would the hardest setting on the adjustment be too much tho? i want the car to have close to stock if not just a little more rear balance.

[Zdster]

Dont waist your time with those brackets and a 22mm sway bar as this will still tear. Only solid 100% fix for the ek is the ASR subframe kit.

From all the evidence I have seen, I couldnt agree more with the above.

[turtleEK1]

Pic of the Whiteline Brace...

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/478/00011681vq1.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7427/braceoe6.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3269/brace2kk8.jpg

With the cases of subframe tear... did they happen to cars with largely upgraded sways but had close to stock struts and springs? I've always thought that when you make that larger upgrade (because EK1's didn't even come with a rear sway bar) that you would need other upgrades to support it?

I'm sure someone on here could clear up that thought up for me...

[55EXX]

but mine is not an extreme application tho. i have talked to contacts ;) and got priced for the same kit and a rear camber adjustment kit all whiteline for 300 bucks. this looks to be the go.

[EG30]

the 22mm is the biggest whiteline have for the rear and have read the 24mm front pairs nicely with the 22mm rear. would the hardest setting on the adjustment be too much tho? i want the car to have close to stock if not just a little more rear balance.

I would leave them on the stiffest setting possible. I have the Whiteline adj rear bar 22mm on the stiffest setting on my EG along with the subframe reo kit and so far no subframe tearout problem and I corner hard most of the time. Can't comment on the EK setup but looks like they have put a lot of effort into the redesigned EK kit.

[T-onedc2]

Dont waist your time with those brackets and a 22mm sway bar as this will still tear. Only solid 100% fix for the ek is the ASR subframe kit. You can purchase from
http://passwordjdm.com or
Yonas @ http://jdmyard.com

Also agreed, for EK use ASR

[Zdster]

With the cases of subframe tear... did they happen to cars with largely upgraded sways but had close to stock struts and springs? I've always thought that when you make that larger upgrade (because EK1's didn't even come with a rear sway bar) that you would need other upgrades to support it?


Nope. Happens on all cars.


but mine is not an extreme application tho. i have talked to contacts ;) and got priced for the same kit and a rear camber adjustment kit all whiteline for 300 bucks. this looks to be the go.

It may well be the cheaper option now, but if your subframe rips out it isnt going to be cheaper!

[twing]

I'm getting my rear sway soon.
The frame tear out is really scary.
So I decide to get 18 mm. My front is still stock 22mm, so it should be nicely balanced. Not taking my car to track, no no need big one.

Hope using 18 mm will minimise the risk.
I also getting it done on suspension shop. They give warranty on their job.
They've been working with whiteline stuff for long time.
That will give me a peace of mind :)

[55EXX]

that whiteline kit is the go. i ordered it today.

that brace looks just as good as the asr for my purposes. they are both pretty much the same. i know that this may upset you that have said to me go the asr but if a tear happens i will post it up here so you can all say i told you so and rip on me all you like. anyway everyone has said go the asr because it is fail proof, yet i have still to be told that the brace that is similar in design to the asr from whiteline tears aswell. i have been told the heavy duty mounts alone tear but not this brace.


twing i have read that tears still happen with bars as thin as 18mm. most civics did not come with a rear sway (if so they were 14mm, suposedly hollow, either way is alot less stiff) and were't designed to have the stress that even a 18mm solid bar unloads onto the weak subframe mounts, especially in the ek/ej models. i would still suggest in investing in the lower arm brace from whiteline which should only set you back less than a 100 bucks for better piece of mind.

i will be setting the bar on the stiffest level. i will post in this thread on how that balances the car for those who are after the info in the future.

thanks guys for the help.

[chilli]

hey

I have whiteline front and adjustable rear sway bar (set on hardest). With king lows, and stock shock. Been on my car for around a year without any additional brace support, and it hasnt 'torn' my subframe or anything like that. Handles well, altho i could do with 205 instead of 195 tyres. But its good enuff for me, can keep up with most cars on the twists.

oh yeh, my cars cxi also =]

[55EXX]

chilli what size bar is it you have front and rear? how do you find the cars balance with those settings? it will still be a while untill i get it all fitted

has anyone else had experience with the 22mm rear swaybar from whiteline in a ek/ej?

[Zdster]

has anyone else had experience with the 22mm rear swaybar from whiteline in a ek/ej?

I used to have one. What would you like to know?

[55EXX]

how was yours installed? with the brace or just the heavy duty mounts? what did the rest of you suspension include, such as if you used a front sway etc and how did you car drive and feel in the end.

might sound stupid but i just would like to hear a run down on what people did to achieve how their car handled, how it handled and what they would have changed etc.... basically i wanna hear some real life experience.

once again thanks for all the gold info

[Zdster]

I think there are two things you need to consider:
1. How does a swaybar feel?
2. What are the potential issues with installing a swaybar on an ek (in particular the whiteline bar)?


To address the first point. A rear sway bar on an ek is a great upgrade regardless of any other suspension upgrades. The car is smoother, runs flatterand doesnt twist. Cornering is awesome and car tends to slide less. The 22mm swaybar does induce a lot of understeer so a smaller bar might be worth thinking about.

You also need to consider a number of other suspension upgrades.

Tyres
Springs and shocks
Wheels
The ek subframe (as well as eg's I am lead to believe) are fairly weak relative to other chassis. When you put it under the strain of lateral twist with a decent size rear sway bar they are prone to rip. To eliminate this you need to reinforce the area. If you look at the design of the ASR kit you will see that it reinforces the entire area as well as the back.
You should have a read of the following:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38433&highlight=brace
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1399315
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62204&highlight=brace

[55EXX]

that last one on the whiteline kit has pretty much nailed getting that whiteline kit in. whiteline has addressed the kits previous faults and there is no reason not to get it. thanks Zdster!

[Zdster]

that last one on the whiteline kit has pretty much nailed getting that whiteline kit in. whiteline has addressed the kits previous faults and there is no reason not to get it. thanks Zdster!

The issue imo is whether the whiteline kit does enough to really reinforce the backing area. The good thing is I suppose is that they are listening to customer feedback.

[beeza]

I guess we wont know how the the 'new improoved' whiteline performs for a while (waiting to hear about a sub-frame tearout...)
So the safest bet would be an 18-22mm whiteline bar with the ASR kit?
I saw the ASR kit on ebay.com (america) for $189 US before postage.A bit expensive.Anyone know the cheapest place to get this item?

[Zdster]

I guess we wont know how the the 'new improoved' whiteline performs for a while (waiting to hear about a sub-frame tearout...)
So the safest bet would be an 18-22mm whiteline bar with the ASR kit?
I saw the ASR kit on ebay.com (america) for $189 US before postage.A bit expensive.Anyone know the cheapest place to get this item?

EG5 can get it here for a pretty good price. I know at any rate it is still cheaper than what I paid for mine.

[beeza]

^^ Thanks mate :thumbsup:

[chilli]

I believe i have 22mm rear adjustable and 24 mm front. They were installed using the brackets which came with the kit. However, i first experimented with only a rear sway. I found this stopped body roll, but it put alot of pressure on the bar and surrounding mounts. When i got the thicker front swaybar fitted, the car felt alot better [probably best described as solid] It took a bit to getting used to, but now i prefer it over stiff suspension [suits my needs at the moment anyway]. It pays to invest in some good tyres too. does wonders =]


chilli what size bar is it you have front and rear? how do you find the cars balance with those settings? it will still be a while untill i get it all fitted

has anyone else had experience with the 22mm rear swaybar from whiteline in a ek/ej?

[55EXX]

yeah it sucks with my wheels being 18s cos i don't have much of a choice tyre wise because i need a 215/35/18 with a load rating to suit my car. And if i want to get a really good set it costs more than i want to spend for a something that has to be replaced in another year or 2 and only provides a marginal increase in performance.

i know you boys are going to drill me and say, as i know, 'the tyres are probably the most important part keeping your car stuck to the road!' i might invest in some little alloys with some sticky rubber in the future when my car actually gets driven hard enough to take advantage of that.

[Zdster]

yeah it sucks with my wheels being 18s cos i don't have much of a choice tyre wise because i need a 215/35/18 with a load rating to suit my car. And if i want to get a really good set it costs more than i want to spend for a something that has to be replaced in another year or 2 and only provides a marginal increase in performance.

i know you boys are going to drill me and say, as i know, 'the tyres are probably the most important part keeping your car stuck to the road!' i might invest in some little alloys with some sticky rubber in the future when my car actually gets driven hard enough to take advantage of that.

You are right - you need to not only consider tyres, but also wheel size.

[55EXX]

yeah thats why i said little alloys. smaller lighter wheels is the go performance wise but i am after the bigger showy look.... rice is nice...

when i had the stock wheels and swaped them to the huge heavy 18s i have now it was as if tho i had a car full of people the performance decrease was that huge! not that the d16y4 went fast in the first place lol

[beeza]

not that the d16y4 went fast in the first place lol

Ha Ha Forsure :thumbsup:
I got a D16y4 Too.When I'm cruising by myself I'm like WHOA! Feel the Power!
Then I pull up to a set of lights plant it on the green and get put in my place everytime :(

[Limbo]

Ok here's my 5c but your not gonna like it.
I originally had the first set of whiteline swaybars and after driving it for about 6months i notice that the brackets were bending. I took them off to reinforce and also added washers to take some of the movement.

Later a friend i know happened to get the upgraded 22mm the second pic you had. I noticed after 2 mths, he drives hard, the tubes that link back to the frame were bending.

Seriously the quality of the brackets just don't seem to be any good. Have a look at the bolts you get its the same also. Whiteline make good swaybars but their brackets for hondas are crap.

I've now got an ASR brace with the whiteline swaybar and its 10x better. The ASR brace is certainly better quality, even the bolts are better.

[55EXX]

i have got the kit and wanted to share its specs with those who want to know. the big flat plates thickness is 4.5mm, steel, the centre reinforcement in the middle is a 12mm square tube of 2mm thick steel

the kit i have to say looks the part. i get it installed by fulcrum in brisbane at moorooka on tuesday. i'll post up the changes it has made after that.

[beeza]

^^ Yes please do :)

[twing]

I got mine put on last week. 18 mm. Then I took it to yarra bend for a drive.
I can take the long corner 50kmh flat where the recommended speed is 35kmh.
Not trying going faster cause 50 kmh is the speed limit around that area.

Last time without the bar, it felt like it was going to tip over. This time it feels flatter.

For people who buy this kit REMEMBER TO RE-TORQUE THE BOLT AFTER 100KM DRIVE, BEFORE 200KM. Whiteline stresses this point for preventing subframe tear off.

[55EXX]

just got it fitted and just got a new exhaust! my bigger muffler never left enough room for the sway bar and had to be removed! i have now traded my 2.5in huge as muffler for a small 2" cannon. remarkably the 2" is noisier but has more bottom end power but less top end. the moter feels quite choked at high revs and will be looking inoto a bigger muffler down the track.

i will post up pics when i have day light but the change in handling is remarkable! the biggest differences would be almost total elimation of body roll which now feels more balanced to my 24mm bar up front!
it:
now feels like a more even wieght distribution between wheels. it feels as if through the front wheels have been pushed harder onto the road and grip alot more through corners where it would normally understeer or in hard acceleration out of corners when it would normally spin it now has more tractrion.

the ride is not much more rougher and at both high and low speeds

i am about to go for my favourite strap so i type more up later

[vti_ek9]

I've got a 22mm CTR rear sway on my EK.. with the beaks kit..

It reinforces the front and back..

Car handles alot better and much more flat around corners.

That being said, I also installed my coilovers at this stage.

As far as the Beaks kit goes... so far so good...

I might upgrade to an ASR brace later on, but right now i don't see any point as the Beaks kit is holding up just fine.

[beeza]

Thanks Guys :thumbsup:
Sounds like if ya do the rear sway ya may aswell do the front aswell.

[55EXX]

i have the whiteline 24mm solid front swaybar and the 22mm solid rear sway on the hardest setting on the rear. the car has pretty much no body roll! the roll could be described as progressive rate. the first bit of roll is fairly hard but after the first bit it becomes near impossible to create more body roll. the balance of my car with these two bars is slightly more rear wards than stock with a slight lean towards oversteer. i am now still learning to drive with the new car's balance and have dicovered the joy of front to rear weight distribution in relation to squat and dive / acceleration and braking which has now became a big part of the cars handling characteristics. i now have to pay alot more attention to smooth throttle crontrol through corners as i have now experienced oversteer from simply backing off the accelerator from the weight shift from the cars slowing. hence caution to those getting swaybars like mine in not only dry but especially wet conditions. i can now take corners twice as fast as i could before the sways due to little no body roll and a more predictable oversteer/understeer.

i would reckon just fitting the rear 22mm bar would create to much of a oversteering car and think the balance created by my setup is spot on for spirited street driving. the bit of oversteer is fun but predictable.

pics to come

[beeza]

^^ Hey that's a great report man!
Great read Thank U!

[55EXX]

some pics repeated from my introductions page

take note of my new exhaust that had to be fabricated to accomodate the rear sway
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2436000-2436999/2436055_109_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2436000-2436999/2436055_110_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2436000-2436999/2436055_113_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2436000-2436999/2436055_114_full.jpg

some dodgy front sway pics
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2436000-2436999/2436055_111_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/2436000-2436999/2436055_112_full.jpg

yeah it comes close to my lca in the front but never hits it. although when i jack the car up at full droop it does rest against it.

another thing to note it that not only did whiteline put the sticker upside down on the rear bar they also did on the front.