Mugen88 Dyno Tune Revisited [Archive]

mugen88

23-06-2007, 08:00 PM

Took my Euro in to have it retuned at Technik Tuning and achieved the following results on the dyno today.

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8048/eurodyno230607hr9.jpg

* 139.1KW @ 6824 RPM at the wheels with VTEC really taking off at around 5600RPM. Estimate air temp was around 11-13 degress, so a very cool day. :D

This was more than expected as my previous dyno tune achieved a high 128KW.

Anyway a good result but results do vary between dyno's and more so the person's abilty to tunning your car.

Mods list ATM:
Toda Stainless Steel HeadersMetal CatK&N Typhoon CAI
Tannabe Hyper Medalion cat back exhaust (dual muffler system)
Apexi AFC NeoUnorthodox Racing Light Weight PulleysFeels ETD

Encor3

23-06-2007, 08:11 PM

nice :D, pics of engine bay please
and very well done on the dyno run.
how much do you think it would matter if temperature was more "normal" ~ 20 - 25c??

aaronng

23-06-2007, 08:19 PM

Nice one, Mr. Most-Powerful-Euro! :thumbsup:
Even before your retune, I could feel the difference with the headers.

BusterSonic12

23-06-2007, 08:29 PM

what did u use for tuning? don't tell me it is all based on this apex neo and u got that figure O.o

euro77

23-06-2007, 08:38 PM

so that was you! We were just next door having a DIY workshop (rx8 club) and can hear the dyno. Then I see a silver euro leaving kolora rd, didn't even think that was yours.

yfin

23-06-2007, 08:41 PM

Fantastic - stock Euros have got around 110kw on that same dyno so that is really impressive. How did the car feel driving home?

EuroAccord13

23-06-2007, 08:42 PM

Good figures..

Even Ray was impressed by the quality and power that the TODA headers gave the car.....

mugen88

23-06-2007, 08:45 PM

so that was you! We were just next door having a DIY workshop (rx8 club) and can hear the dyno. Then I see a silver euro leaving kolora rd, didn't even think that was yours.

I was wondering if u where there but I couldn't hang around all day.

Damm some nice RX8's were there.

yfin

23-06-2007, 08:48 PM

Nick - any idea what similar stock cars have achieved on that dyno? 140kw at the wheels must be close to stock s2000 territory

mugen88

23-06-2007, 08:54 PM

Fantastic - stock Euros have got around 110kw on that same dyno so that is really impressive. How did the car feel driving home?

I didnt push it too much during the day but its smooth all the way up to 7200rpm after the retune. :p

what did u use for tuning? don't tell me it is all based on this apex neo and u got that figure O.o

I hav a 6spd manual not a auto. Just the NEO on a dyno but I'm only adjusting A/F ratios on it as the VTEC part is not working for me. It comes down to the experience of the person who tunes the car.

Good figures..

Even Ray was impressed by the quality and power that the TODA headers gave the car.....

Toda FTW, you really get what you pay for. :thumbsup:

Now I gotta watch out for Nic and Arron to catch up, beats waiting for hondata atm. :D

yfin

23-06-2007, 09:02 PM

Just the NEO on a dyno but I'm only adjusting A/F ratios on it as the VTEC part is not working for me. It comes down to the experience of the person who tunes the car.

That is awesome- with some changes to when VTEC kicks in and VTC control you will be hitting 150kw ATW. :D

EuroAccord13

23-06-2007, 09:07 PM

mugen88

23-06-2007, 09:23 PM

Stock Euros kick out between 95-105Kws, some of the figures were taken off the DTS database in the workshop..

Yes, MUGEN88 is right, the combination of modifications plus experience of the tuner can certainly maximise power output while retaining drivability..

I'll be catching up just wait!!! :D :D... I got 134Kws with A/F tuning on the "chip" heeheehee... Wait till Ray sorts out the cam control :D :D....

Waiting........................................... ...................... :D

Oh forgot to add that Nic cleaned my airfilter the day before so that alone gave me another 5kw. :thumbsup:

sodaz

23-06-2007, 09:34 PM

Very nice power!! :thumbsup:

What does the Toda header sound like in real life (any vibration or hissing)? It's got 2 flex pipes if i remember correctly. How much do they go for?

TypeG

23-06-2007, 09:49 PM

seems like my toda header and metal cat are in good hand =)

TypeG

23-06-2007, 09:50 PM

Very nice power!! :thumbsup:

What does the Toda header sound like in real life (any vibration or hissing)? It's got 2 flex pipes if i remember correctly. How much do they go for?
there are hissing sound but you wont think they are annoying for some reasons... they are a lot smoother sound and feel

040501912

23-06-2007, 10:17 PM

woah good number.. im shocked ... damn .. euro must be quiet quick :p .. btw does euro has LSD?

yfin

23-06-2007, 11:58 PM

woah good number.. im shocked ... damn .. euro must be quiet quick :p .. btw does euro has LSD?

No LSD - people have fit the one from the DC5R though

raz05

24-06-2007, 12:56 AM

Some very nice gain u got there
Congratulating
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

kitbkk

24-06-2007, 01:23 AM

congrats andrew:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
*I so wanna hear how the toda sounds*
:thumbsup:

ALN

24-06-2007, 06:46 AM

:thumbsup:Wow nice result
Good tuning indeed.

sodaz

24-06-2007, 06:20 PM

Now it's time to make a video to make us all drool....

mugen88

24-06-2007, 07:31 PM

Very nice power!! :thumbsup:

What does the Toda header sound like in real life (any vibration or hissing)? It's got 2 flex pipes if i remember correctly. How much do they go for?

The Toda header does produce a hissing sound and can be annoying, also the sound is very unimpressive under 3000rpm but once yr over over 3000rpm the whole exhaust system comes alive and sounds hawt with VTEC kicking in. :thumbsup:

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/3701/tsxheaderstg6.jpg
Image showing you the difference btwn 1. Honda factory, 2. DC Sports Ceramic, 3. Comptech S/S headers.

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2857/todacl7jq5.jpg
As you can see the Toda headers have a different design to other makes probably cause the are designated for race use only hence the gain in performance.

Now it's time to make a video to make us all drool....

Sorry no video footage of dyno, my camera man couldn't make it this time. :(

sodaz

24-06-2007, 07:42 PM

No worries. Thanks for the comparison pics! :thumbsup:

Powerband wise, do you feel gains only after 3000rpm? From what i've read, the CT and DC headers increase low rev torque and power throughout the rev range.

EuroAccord13

24-06-2007, 09:10 PM

Sorry no video footage of dyno, my camera man couldn't make it this time. :(

Sorrrry laaaaa! I was too tired.... :(

But I'll make a video for your car when I finish everything else ok? :D

Suntzu

24-06-2007, 09:33 PM

Im really impressed by this car.

So do you think the Toda drops mid range or is better all round? I wonder what the difference is to the Maxim header?

Hmm so many options~!

aaronng

24-06-2007, 10:30 PM

adammet04

25-06-2007, 12:59 PM

nice work buddy...these are awesome figures from just boltons and tuning imho..this must make it that the flywheel kw must be around 180ish mark??

mmmsxc

25-06-2007, 02:26 PM

pretty good results buddy. congrats on the power as well. it should be around the 180kw mark at the flywheel :)

adammet04

25-06-2007, 04:06 PM

ive got a question,

the graph line is very bumpy along the way to its peak,

just you always see dyno graphs with super smooth lines typically

is this because the dyno is better (eg read quicker) or is it like a marketing trick to smooth out the line etc...
or is this typical of honda engines?

cheers

Chris_F

25-06-2007, 04:11 PM

I've heard both, and while the DC Sports headers make your Euro sound like an Euro but louder, the Toda makes your Euro sound more like the old B and H series after VTEC. It sounds like the Hondata dyno video.

similar scenario with the maxim works header, the change at vtec becomes a lot more pronounced. The four flex pipes also give it a very distinctive hiss.

aaronng

25-06-2007, 04:41 PM

similar scenario with the maxim works header, the change at vtec becomes a lot more pronounced. The four flex pipes also give it a very distinctive hiss.

Nah, the Maxim works header sounds very docile compared to the Toda. The Maxim is also pretty silent unlike the Toda. With the Maxim, you still know you have a k24A underneath. With the Toda, it sounds like a h22a instead.

aaronng

25-06-2007, 04:42 PM

TODA AU

25-06-2007, 06:00 PM

How much do they go for?
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69494

sodaz

25-06-2007, 08:16 PM

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69494

Does it have to be a group buy thing?

mugen88

25-06-2007, 09:22 PM

Does it have to be a group buy thing?

Yes its a group buy with a minimum amount of purchasers to get the special pricing.

sodaz

25-06-2007, 09:42 PM

Yes its a group buy with a minimum amount of purchasers to get the special pricing.

I see. I'll be a bit hard to get 6 people to buy that header considering the price.

maracer

25-06-2007, 09:47 PM

Hey great POWER:thumbsup:
It's got to be a BEAST to drive now:p:p:p

akina

25-06-2007, 09:57 PM

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69494

would that header fit on a fully stock CL9?

mugen88

25-06-2007, 10:21 PM

would that header fit on a fully stock CL9?

The header will fit stock CL9 but you can not use yr existing cat, this needs to be upgraded to a custom one or use a JDM CL7 cat, which needs to be imported.

E-Gene

25-06-2007, 10:44 PM

So if I've got the Fujitsubo LegalisR, will the header fit it or will I still need a custom cat?

mugen88

25-06-2007, 11:54 PM

So if I've got the Fujitsubo LegalisR, will the header fit it or will I still need a custom cat?

You still need custom cat.

mr747

26-06-2007, 01:05 PM

ill be interested if we can get 6 people

Chris_F

26-06-2007, 03:30 PM

TypeG

26-06-2007, 06:06 PM

So if I've got the Fujitsubo LegalisR, will the header fit it or will I still need a custom cat?

you should of just buy them off me when u got my exhuast

TypeG

26-06-2007, 06:10 PM

Nah, the Maxim works header sounds very docile compared to the Toda. The Maxim is also pretty silent unlike the Toda. With the Maxim, you still know you have a k24A underneath. With the Toda, it sounds like a h22a instead.

i dun think so
i sat on 2 EuroR in HK with these two different headers in the same day. same noise and the price are also very similar as well

EuroAccord13

26-06-2007, 09:00 PM

i dun think so
i sat on 2 EuroR in HK with these two different headers in the same day. same noise and the price are also very similar as well

But hail to the difference in power.... Noise does no justice :p

sodaz

26-06-2007, 09:35 PM

The Toda header should perform similarly to the Maximworks header right? They are both extremely well designed headers from what i've seen.

aaronng

26-06-2007, 11:16 PM

i dun think so
i sat on 2 EuroR in HK with these two different headers in the same day. same noise and the price are also very similar as well
EuroR /= Euro :)
The k20a sounds different to a k24a and responds differently to the headers. You should try 2 k24a Euros, one with a Maxim and one with Toda. The Maxim keeps your Euro sounding like an Euro, except for a very loud "PSSSHH" sound when you lift the throttle at 7000+RPM. The Toda in the k24a sounds more like a h22a. Just listen to the Hondata dyno vid, and the Toda sounds similar to that.

E-Gene

26-06-2007, 11:18 PM

you should of just buy them off me when u got my exhuast

Haha, I know but it was really a cash flow issue. Have to save for each item one at a time, can't afford to splash $10k straight after buying the car.

aaronng

26-06-2007, 11:28 PM

The Toda header should perform similarly to the Maximworks header right? They are both extremely well designed headers from what i've seen.

I reckon the Toda has more gains, but the Maxim is more silent. Of course, both headers should beat all the TSX headers coming out of the US.

E-Gene

26-06-2007, 11:39 PM

What's a suggested cat to get to match the Toda/Maxim headers? Metal Cat?

aaronng

27-06-2007, 12:07 AM

What's a suggested cat to get to match the Toda/Maxim headers? Metal Cat?

Metal cat is good. You need to bring it to the exhaust shop to weld on some flanges though as it doesn't come with them for the Euro. Also, you need it done up in the right length for the headers.

ALN

27-06-2007, 02:18 AM

I reckon the Toda has more gains, but the Maxim is more silent. Of course, both headers should beat all the TSX headers coming out of the US.

Can't really say that though. Since there is none dyno comparison yet. Hytech exhaust is very2 good, read through rsx and k20a forum, you can see, JDM products is not always better than US. I reckon, in term of gains shouldn't be much different probably the difference is the built quality and material.

aaronng

27-06-2007, 03:32 AM

Can't really say that though. Since there is none dyno comparison yet. Hytech exhaust is very2 good, read through rsx and k20a forum, you can see, JDM products is not always better than US. I reckon, in term of gains shouldn't be much different probably the difference is the built quality and material.

Hytech headers only fit if you get the Hytech cat and exhaust as well. It's not going to fit with the other cats and exhausts, even the stock one.. :) I'm still waiting for a Hytech headers dyno. The only dyno I've seen was the works including cams, valves, springs, retainers, intake manifold, exhaust and cat as well as the headers.

But Toda and Maxim still produces a higher output than the DC Sports and Comptech headers.

ALN

27-06-2007, 04:35 AM

Hytech headers only fit if you get the Hytech cat and exhaust as well. It's not going to fit with the other cats and exhausts, even the stock one.. :) I'm still waiting for a Hytech headers dyno. The only dyno I've seen was the works including cams, valves, springs, retainers, intake manifold, exhaust and cat as well as the headers.

But Toda and Maxim still produces a higher output than the DC Sports and Comptech headers.

I guess the Hytech exhaust combo should be the most extreme exhaust for CL9/CL7 atm. The header is longer tube design which tend to be racing header and works even better with aggresive cams. I want them myself if only I haven't got full exhaust system atm. :D

I believe, you have seen the hondata tuning guide for TSX. In their dyno test there is comparison of Comptech header+ airbox+reflash yielded the around the same result dyno compare with toda header +injen +vtc + tuning. The only difference is the mid range power which is caused by VTC.
Anyway the DC sports and comptech doesn't come with test pipe or stock cat elimination compare to toda which could cause higher output.

Chris_F

27-06-2007, 10:57 AM

The Toda header should perform similarly to the Maximworks header right? They are both extremely well designed headers from what i've seen.

It'd be hard to know the difference without side by side dyno testing, on the same car, on the same day. Both are well made and designed to perform. I've been happy with the maxim works but Toda is cheaper and if the gains are at least on par it's probably a more economical choice.

aaronng

27-06-2007, 01:26 PM

I guess the Hytech exhaust combo should be the most extreme exhaust for CL9/CL7 atm. The header is longer tube design which tend to be racing header and works even better with aggresive cams. I want them myself if only I haven't got full exhaust system atm. :D
The hytech is a racing header and exhaust set, and sounds very loud. I'd say it would be N1-level.

I believe, you have seen the hondata tuning guide for TSX. In their dyno test there is comparison of Comptech header+ airbox+reflash yielded the around the same result dyno compare with toda header +injen +vtc + tuning. The only difference is the mid range power which is caused by VTC.
Anyway the DC sports and comptech doesn't come with test pipe or stock cat elimination compare to toda which could cause higher output.
Peak power figures are the same, but if you look at the mid range at 5500rpm, the toda has an extra 10hp at 5500rpm. Here's the graph. From the midrange, Toda > Comptech. Red = Comptech + Reflash, Blue = Toda + Kpro + VTC

http://hondata.com/images/tsxtuning/Dyno-tsx-toda-hdr-rbc-vtc-s.gif

ALN

27-06-2007, 05:28 PM

The hytech is a racing header and exhaust set, and sounds very loud. I'd say it would be N1-level.

Peak power figures are the same, but if you look at the mid range at 5500rpm, the toda has an extra 10hp at 5500rpm. Here's the graph. From the midrange, Toda > Comptech. Red = Comptech + Reflash, Blue = Toda + Kpro + VTC

http://hondata.com/images/tsxtuning/Dyno-tsx-toda-hdr-rbc-vtc-s.gif

"HotWheelz" a member from k20a forum did the test between 25 stock VTC vs 45 degree VTC with custom header and K&N air filter in place.

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24586&highlight=k24a2+VTC

That shows that ,when he switched to 45 vtc, produces higher mid range power and torque which is around the same with hondata dyno graph you showed so clearly it wasn't from the header.

ginganggooly

27-06-2007, 11:39 PM

How would you go about shoe-horning a hytech header into a euro?

I don't see it fitting without clearance issues. Has anyone tried it?

aaronng

28-06-2007, 12:04 AM

If it fits into a TSX, it will fit an Euro.

ginganggooly

28-06-2007, 12:17 AM

If it fits into a TSX, it will fit an Euro.

I didn't realise that they were producing anything to fit TSX's.

Suntzu

28-06-2007, 09:13 AM

Im a bit of a noob with this VTC stuff.

But I am wondering what the price difference would be between these two systems and compare that to cost>?

aaronng

28-06-2007, 09:24 AM

I didn't realise that they were producing anything to fit TSX's.

They recently released the full racing system, consisting of headers, cat and exhaust. Too bad you can't mix and match parts but use the whole Hytech setup.

aaronng

28-06-2007, 09:25 AM

Im a bit of a noob with this VTC stuff.

But I am wondering what the price difference would be between these two systems and compare that to cost>?
Not sure what you are asking about... :confused:

Suntzu

28-06-2007, 09:33 AM

aaronng

28-06-2007, 09:44 AM

Im saying, what would each complete system cost to get to each of their respective HP and TQ as represented by the graph? Is the higher HP system equivalent in cost or 2x as expensive? Just interested for future reference.

The dyno chart is from Hondata's tuning research. If you wanted to factor in labour costs, it would be too much for the gains you get. For example, the stock VTC is ground so that it gets up to 45 degrees. The labour of taking it apart and then sending it out to regrind, then getting a k20a ecu with conversion harness in order to use the k-pro with your electronic throttle, tuning and etc. It's a lot of money.

You're better off getting I/H/E and then waiting for a programmable ECU solution to be released or going for a piggyback. This is the route that most of us go for. After you do all this and get a programmable ECU, then consider the modded VTC and/or cams.

E-Gene

05-07-2007, 10:47 PM

Metal cat is good. You need to bring it to the exhaust shop to weld on some flanges though as it doesn't come with them for the Euro. Also, you need it done up in the right length for the headers.

Not sure what's a good price to pay for a custom cat if I were to go for the Toda header. Metal cat for $299 is that a good price? And for it to fit my car with the Fujitsubo, I take it that it's 2.5"?