Needing CVT fluid flush - confronting local dealer?

[zippyjazz]

i'd hoping to revive the thread RE: Shuddering Jazz/CVT issues as ive been experiencing the exact shuddering/jerking actions from my 2003 jazz. I've neglected it a bit as its been ongoing for a month and now taking steps into finding out whats wrong without getting ripped off. From reading all the related posts, i'm almost certain that all it needs is a good flush however I'm not keen on going back to honda service centres. I'm the second owner and I've since had each service at a honda service centre until i was being jibbed. They will remain un-named however they told me i needed to replace my horn (which I found really funny as i knew it was working before i got it serviced). i then took it to another honda centre and they said the exact same thing. They quoted $30 or so dollars, which is no big deal but i questioned how damanged it was so I had my friend take a look and all he did was connect wires and it was miraculously working again!! :eek:

anyway getting off track now.. back on the cvt. i called around and brighton honda quoted $94.50 for the 4ltre bottle. so on the weekend i strolled down to another honda thinking it would apply to all honda centres but i was wrong. they told me it wasnt available for the public and if it needed a tranny change then they would need to do it at $240 a pop!! i dont know if the rules are different for each centre or if i was getting rolled cos im a girl but i cant trust them any of them. i dont want to go to a non-honda shop so i may be forced to go, knowing that they've already tried to cheat me for a measley $30.

What do you guys think I should do? Go back and just pay it? Buy the fluid and get my boy to do it? - which brings up another question. If Honda were to action this, other than flushing my system, do they also use their special computer tools to recalibrate my system??

[shadou]

thought the CVT fluid was not avaliable to the general public, if you can buy it go for it just make sure it is the CVT fluid instead of ATF fluid.
Generally the CVT fluid is expensive as hell from what I heard. The procedure is the same as changing the trans fluid and possible prompt an ECU reset -> calibration of the cvt is required but I'm told by claymore it can be done by driving 10 minutes at a given speed.

[040501912]

Honda CVT are very sensitive to the oils..

i suggest you to get OEM HONDA CVT. had problems with some jazz when changing after market oil. it clogged up on the oil holes. and car wont drive well.
oil wont flow happens too.

Is not that expensive from Honda dealer for its CVT oil.

[Dreams]

It is available and worth looking for a dealer that sells it, the stuff has been developed to cure the problem and several people have reported that it does just that. For the easy way to do the recalibration (It's in the manual and Honda approved) just accelerate to 40 MPH (about 60KPH) then release the gas pedal (check behind you for other cars following) let it coast down to walking speed then do it again twice and your CVT should be calibrated.

Are you sure about this? sounds the same as that bs gear lever N > P > D > whatever.

[vividjazz]

I had my CVT fixed under warranty. All they did was drain the existing ATF-Z1 (red coloured fluid) and replaced with the proper golden coloured Honda CVT fluid. Drive around and then then drain that and replace it with a final 4L of CVT fluid. The proper CVT fluid is being brought into Australia in 4L containers (finally) and is around $80 a container.

I'd take my dog to a Honda dealer if I wanted him put down otherwise I'd take my car to an honest mechanic that doesn't try to sell elbow grease or headlight fluid.

[shadou]

dude what grass are you smoking? CVT fluid is a thin oil and light pink in colour not gold that's most likely MTF or oil :p. If you have a case of severe shudder as you may have it would, a service would be as followed:

drain current trans fluid.
replace with CVT -> drive a good round (still should have a little bit of shudder)
Drain CVT fluid
Replace with fresh CVT oil
Reset ECU
Calibrate Transmission
Done!

I've tried giving a good flush so I would not need to refill x2 but you will still get a little shudder, not noticeable straight away but let the oil heat up and you should feel it come back not as bad as first.

[zippyjazz]

thanks guys. i took it in and they tell me that nothing is wrong with my car. they didnt change the cvt fluid either. im just wondering how they could tell that it wasnt a case of changing it??? maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong. i'm being paranoid and thinking that they didnt even check my car now. anyway will get a second opinion elsewhere.

can you guys think of anything else that would cause this shuddering? bearing in mind, it only occurs from take off and up to 60-65kms. I ruled out wheel alignment/balance issues. I tried going from 0 and up to 60kms, put it in neutral to see if it still shook and it didn't.

[shadou]

CVT shudder is usually on acceleration, stand still -> accelerate and you should have a shudder.

[zippyjazz]

thanks shadou - im aware thats what the cvt shudder is caused by. however they tell me the cause is definately not due to the transmission, that why i was testing my car in neutral (upon suggestion from another mechanic), another one told me its due to a leaky shocker (would these symptoms be similiar?)...

anyway i dont know enough about cars to say anymore, wish i did so i wouldnt have to deal with this sh@t. now browsing carsales to see what new car would suit me hehehe

[jazcivic]

To ZIPPYJAZZ, I'm sorry to hear about your predicament and your
unpleasant experience with Car Dealers and ownership of a used Honda Jazz.
It's a good car once you are acquainted with its maintenance schedule and have
the CVT problem resolved.

My suggestion:

Bite the bullet and spend the $80+
on 4L of CVT fluid to rectify the gear shudder.
Get your BF to flush the tranny. Then follow
what Claymore suggested you do to reset
the CVT.

Nothing daunting.

Good luck.

[Dreams]

DREAMS, what don't you understand about it's in the manual????? You think the Honda repair manual is BS???? Try looking in the repair manual and you will find this procedure.

sorry, excuse my language sir. Mine was reset and calibrated with the tablet pc they have. that is one of the procudure listed.

straight extract from the manual.


Calibration Procedure with Driving the Vehicle


1. Warm up the engine to normal operating temperature (the radiator fan comes on).




2. Start the engine under no-load conditions, then turn the headlights on.




3. Start off in [D] position, and drive the vehicle until vehicle speed reaches 60 km/h (37 mph), then decelerate the vehicle in more than 5 seconds without pressing the brake pedal to reach completion.




4. Test-drive the vehicle to verify that a problem does not occur on the start clutch control system.

[fundies]

To ZIPPYJAZZ, I'm sorry to hear about your predicament and your
unpleasant experience with Car Dealers and ownership of a used Honda Jazz.
It's a good car once you are acquainted with its maintenance schedule and have
the CVT problem resolved.

My suggestion:

Bite the bullet and spend the $80+
on 4L of CVT fluid to rectify the gear shudder.
Get your BF to flush the tranny. Then follow
what Claymore suggested you do to reset
the CVT.

Nothing daunting.

Good luck.

If the tranny is to be flushed (which I would do if it has the dreaded shudder), you are going to need 8 litres of cvtf fluid, not 4 like lots of people are saying!!!:confused:

[jazcivic]

If the tranny is to be flushed (which I would do if it has the dreaded shudder), you are going to need 8 litres of cvtf fluid, not 4 like lots of people are saying!!!:confused:

Yes change the CVT fluid twice (3.7L) if the
first change does not fully cure the shudder.

[zippyjazz]

guess what happened?! after a weekend trip to lake mountain (what a disappointment!), the car is now shudder-free! I did drive down black spur and the windy roads in neutral for a few mins and also stay between 30-40 kms for quite some time (only due to the fog and icy road), must have fluked the re-calibration or something. funny that! i was considering selling my car for a suzuki swift but may keep it after all... hope the smooth riding lasts!

[outl@w]

have owned an audi a4 with CVT the shuddering problems seems to comon amoung cvt gearboxes. In saying that having driven a cvt car for a while, i dont think ill go back to a normal auto

[dan125]

Im with outl@w. Once you go cvt you wont go back. They are great in theory and operation once the start clutch is activated. Dont know the reason why zippy was coasting around in neutral, but i have heard the fluid is available to anybody who wants to pay good money for great quality oil

[jklo]

Hi all,

Just had my jazz serviced yesterday at 60000 km. Prior to the service I made alot of complaints in regards to the CVT. Since my car is still under warranty, they gave me 2 flushes of CVT fluid covered under warranty. Now it runs smooth without the shudder.

Try confronting the dealer and tell them your problem and ask what they an do and how much it'll cost you to do it. Also ask them what if flushing once doesn't solve the problem? Will you they pay for the second flush?


Hope this helps

[Jazzdude]

How can I be sure that when I take my car into the dealer to get my CVT oil changed, that they'll actually use the CVT oil and not the ATF-Z1? Is there any way I can check afterwards? Cuz I have that shudder too.

[shadou]

How can I be sure that when I take my car into the dealer to get my CVT oil changed, that they'll actually use the CVT oil and not the ATF-Z1? Is there any way I can check afterwards? Cuz I have that shudder too.

cos all dealers have been notified of the problem and all will have a campaign bullentein outling the problem and a solution to fix it so they have to follow through with it once diagnoised. You can check it after wards normal atf = RED CVT oil = LIGHT PINK drag the dipstick out and wipe on your finger or if you don't like oil on a white cloth.

[Jazzdude]

cos all dealers have been notified of the problem and all will have a campaign bullentein outling the problem and a solution to fix it so they have to follow through with it once diagnoised. You can check it after wards normal atf = RED CVT oil = LIGHT PINK drag the dipstick out and wipe on your finger or if you don't like oil on a white cloth.

Cuz when I told my dealer about the shudder, he said it has nothing to do with the CVT oil, and that my start clutch is busted. He didn't look at my car, but said he had dealt with such CVT problems B4.

I may be paranoid, but I think he may use ATF (and tell me its CVT), so the shudder won't go, and he'll tell me I have to get my clutch fixed.

Can someone post pics of the ATF oil colour and CVT oil colour?

[destrukshn]

take it to another dealer simple.
as far as i know, all dealers will replace it with the new cvt fluid.

[shadou]

it's very simple to tell the colour, seriously normal Honda ATF is dark red in colour like most dexron ATF on the market whilst the CVT oil is a very pale light pink colour.
Just drag the dipstick (yellow) out and wipe on a white cloth you'll tell instantly.

[destrukshn]

also, the new cvt fluid is realllllly thin.
like water thin,

[cazz'shonda]

it's very simple to tell the colour, seriously normal Honda ATF is dark red in colour like most dexron ATF on the market whilst the CVT oil is a very pale light pink colour.
Just drag the dipstick (yellow) out and wipe on a white cloth you'll tell instantly.
Dragging up the past here. (typical for an old fart):rolleyes:
With the CVTF, how long does it take to dis-colour? Would CVTF at say 20,000km be darker due to wear over time, likened to burning of DII or DIII in older auto's?