Please someone help - Turbo

[micky_d01]

Hey,

Iv just begun to modify my '94 EH Honda Civic VTi (d16Y1 - 1.6L SOHC Vtec). :)

I havn't yet installed my turbo kit (custom manifold and piping, Internally gated nissan turbo, Intercooler etc.) but dont know where to go from here!! I'm only planning on running 7 - 12 PSI on the kit. I want to keep excess modifications to a minimum but will make neccesary modifications to allow for the turbo. What do I need? I can think of piggy-back ECU (does someone want to recommend a particular one and wheres a good place to get it tuned in the Brisbane area) and larger injectors (is ~440cc a good size?). Is there anything further that I should look into getting, as long as benefit largely outweighs cost.

As for reliability, I'm looking at buying a d16y4 worked block for cheap (cylinder block guard, Low Compression Cp Forged Pistons, Cp Piston Rings, Eagle Rods ). Does anyone have any suggestions on what head to use with the new block? How much trouble to set the new engine up? Should I buy the block or stick with my y1 engine? Your call.

Thanks,
Michael.

[Limo]

how much boost do you want to run?7psi.. you can run it off the turbo/internal gate. if you want more/less you will need a boost controller. 440cc injectors should be enough.

what about fuel pump, exhaust, bov, clutch

as for the head.. im not too familar with d series engines. your stock engine should be able to handle the bolt on turbo.
but if your gettin the block, it sounds like you already want more boost.. forged internals, lower comp etc. you will need a bigger turbo, bigger injectors and a proper ecu

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

have you done any research on installing a turbo, or did you just buy the kit thinking it was as simple as lego?

[Sexc86]

Hey mike! its lyle mate.... Basically what you will be needing without a doubt is a Stand-Alone Tuneable ECU... a piggy back wont really cut it even on low boost its just a bandaid fix. Haltex & Microtec arnt bad and many tuners in brisbane know the softwear.... another option is hondata, which is cheaper however no tuners are here in qld. If you wanted to find out more about hondata go to www.hondatech.com.au and contact james... hes the australian destributer for them and usually makes trips around australia for tuneing.

If you wanted to keep it more local i have herd very very good things about PITS down the coast that tunes a variety of ecus with good results.

Really the bare essentials to make your setup complete would be... Fuel pump, Injectors, BOV, Exhaust, Boost Gauge + give youself some money for labour / tuneing / unexpected popups!

In regards to the block / head, all D16 sohc blocks / heads are interchangeable but usually the best heads are either the d16y1 or the d16y8
(Vtec) especially for boost.

Good luck with ya build champ! be sure to post some pix when you get it off the ground :D

[micky_d01]

without a doubt is a Stand-Alone Tuneable ECU... a piggy back wont really cut it even on low boost its just a bandaid fix.


you will need a bigger turbo, bigger injectors and a proper ecu

Yeah I'm looking more towards the 15PSI max area now. Thats what I'll settle on i think. Great responses from both you guys! +1! thanks Lyle n Limo.

I'm looking for BOV's and fuel pump's (Walbro 255Lph) now.. If anyones selling, let me know before i buy.. Clutch can wait till I burn this one out and I'll see how I go with my straight through cat back exhaust for now (not mandrel bent)..

You both seem confident that I can't get away with a piggy-back.. Does anyone know the specific pro's and con's? I only wanna get it in, have a good tune and that be that (don't need track data logging and all that)..

4 questions -
Doesn't Hondata only sell piggy-backs?
What's the ECU of choice in your opinion?
What PSI is the point where you should go standalone over piggyback on my setup?
And finally, Limbo mentioned "bigger turbo" - What PSI do you think a factory Nissan turbo could reliably hold? Are you suggesting that a Nissan turbo won't perform 15PSI?


have you done any research on installing a turbo, or did you just buy the kit thinking it was as simple as lego?

LOL I aint no noob!! I no the absolute in's and out's of a turbo back to front! How they perform, what they need, all the tricks aswell as the total installation process. And if you know what your doing, then yes - it is as simple as lego. I'll keep you updated bout how I go once I begin the install - make some sort of thread about it.

Thanks guys!!

[Aza]

mate if u want to run 15psi u will need to build up ur engine. on the stock internals of a D16Y1 i would not run more then 10psi to keep it reliable as u need to keep the power under 250hp atw, any more then this expect to blow the engine fairly quick, but under this it should hold up for a very long time. As mentioned ECU will be very important especially if ur wanting to change boost, a simple piggy back wont cut it in this case (u need an ecu that can be fully tuned to suit ur needs). i personally use hondata but there are a few decent ecu's out there, just depends how much u want to spend. as for injectors 440 will be ok i would lean more to 550 depending on how much boost ur running. also what turbo are u using? i use an RB20 turbo, these turbos arnt really suited to running more then 12 psi. And the SR20DET Turbo is the same. Unless u have an RB25 or RB26 turbo. Also to suit the turbo u will need a custom made down pipe, i could get pics of mine if u wanted. and i would recoomend at least a 2.5" high flow exhuast. Fuel pump is a good idea as well, also is a heavy duty clutch, ur stock one wont last too long with the added power. o well i will keep checking this thead and try and give advise when i can, good luck with it.

[gReY-oNe]

Yeah I'm looking more towards the 15PSI max area now.

I'm looking for BOV's and fuel pump's (Walbro 255Lph) now.. If anyones selling, let me know before i buy.. Clutch can wait till I burn this one out and I'll see how I go with my straight through cat back exhaust for now (not mandrel bent)..


Thanks guys!!

If like u said u wonna keep mods to a minimal its not recommended u run 15psi
stock internals cant handle it. More realistically ull get safely 5-10 IMO

Walbro pumps go for about 130 brand new check out the nissansilvia sponsors
or if ur in sydney you can pick one up from jdmyard

[micky_d01]

mate if u want to run 15psi u will need to build up ur engine. As mentioned ECU will be very important especially if ur wanting to change boost, a simple piggy back wont cut it in this case (u need an ecu that can be fully tuned to suit ur needs). i personally use hondata but there are a few decent ecu's out there, just depends how much u want to spend. also what turbo are u using? Also to suit the turbo u will need a custom made down pipe. and i would recoomend at least a 2.5" high flow exhuast.


If like u said u wonna keep mods to a minimal its not recommended u run 15psi

Haha yeah I wouldnt run on the honda rods - suicide to the block. I'll be using a well built d16 if all goes well - so engine mods are taken car of. With a standalone, does it allow you to have 2 preset boost settings? Is that what you mean when you say changing boost? I really dont want to have to upgrade all my sensors though (that's the sort of thing i want to keep to a min.). Can anyone give me an approx. cost of changing from stock ECU to piggyback as opposed to go from stock ECU to standalone (from complete start to finish). I'm not sure what particular turbo it is, Can you tell anything from this?

http://i23.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/91/04/870e_1.JPG

http://i13.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/91/04/8664_1.JPG

As you can see, I already have a custom downpipe n manifold. What pressure boost would you peeps recomend I run?

[Aza]

which turbo is that, looks very similar to mine, and thought it was till i saw the waste gate. what is it off? figure that out and u will get an answer to how much boost u should run considering u are talking about building the block. with it built right the turbo is whats gooing to be holding u back. im guessing its a T28 with T3 flanges? also it depends on the stand alone ecu if it allows more then one fixed setting. ps i use hondata which is a piggy back but is a fully tuneable one, i use the hondata s100 which would be all u need since u dont want data logs etc. sets u back 285$ then normally 150$ installed. then tunning is up around 880$ for the intial tune. like i said depends how much money ur willing to spend, wake another 800-1000$ on that and u could have a full stand alone system tuned

[micky_d01]

which turbo is that, looks very similar to mine, and thought it was till i saw the waste gate. what is it off? ps i use hondata which is a piggy back but is a fully tuneable one, i use the hondata s100 which would be all u need since u dont want data logs etc. sets u back 285$ then normally 150$ installed. then tunning is up around 880$ for the intial tune. like i said depends how much money ur willing to spend, wack another 800-1000$ on that and u could have a full stand alone system tuned

The seller doesnt even know what the turbo is or what it's off. Don't get any ideas now, it aint stolen - bought it from HRC motorsports in Sydney (P.s. they were great ppl to deal with). So I'll hafta ask a performance shop about it.

Yeah I really don't wana bother with standalone. Make do with a good piggy-back tune. How did you get your hondata tuned? What sort of boost are you running and how does it go? What other cars does it stand up against?

[Aza]

i dont get final tune till next wed, atm im running 8psi on a base map done by dynodave off this site. being in brisbane there aint many tuners for hondata, apc does do them but most ppl get them tuned from guys down south. and what does it stand up against? well lets just say so far im happy with the results so far. ps i am betting that turbo is off a 180 or 200sx

[micky_d01]

The basemaps are just pretuned maps generic to your car right? for use till you get a real tune? (If you havn't noticed, ECU's are the only thing that I know basically nothing about). Your reffering to the Melbourne dealer when you say the "guys down south"? Let me no how the APC tune goes and what costs are involved. Do you recommend I buy and install the ECU myself (since its just a plug n play job) then get ppl to tune? Or does dyno tuners only tune a few of their own selected ECU's?

[Aza]

they will need to install the piggy back and im getting mine tuned by a sydney dealer. and im not expert on ecu's either

[Sexc86]

Id deffinately say installing and tuneing ecu is something best left to the pros... its not really a trial and error thing.... as an errror can mean... BOOOM! Every Ecu is different so not everyone can tune a specific ecu... APC doesnt personally tune hondata they subcontract the work to james (who will fly up from melb), who uses their dyno.

In regards to your turbo, basically the main thing you want to find out if it is ceramic Rear wheel? if so would only be good for 12psi to last safely... if say steel id say 18ish give or take. Check if its ball bearing (apposed to bush bearing) because i dont think ceramic rear wheels are ball bearing. Easyest way is spin the compressor wheel if it spins only a few turns after you let go its most likely bush bearing, if it spins for a few sec's probably ball bearing

[micky_d01]

haha I was never gona attempt to tune it myself - suicide!! I was gona buy and install it myself, then get them to tune it. Saves me their markups and $100 installation - considering it's a matter of unplugging and plugging, right? Maybe a piggyback installation is a bit more involved since you have to attatch it to the existing ECU.

Okay, so now I'm thinking I'll just run 12PSI. Because 15PSI would be a strain on the turbo (assuming it be a bush bearing) and would really be pushing the limits of a piggyback.. I'd be more than happy with the power and reliability of a 12PSI :)

[Joel The Mole]

turbo looks like a t25 or a t28 off a nissan silvia. if u could drive it to the gold coast, im pretty sure chiptorque do ecu's, although im not 100% sure. try giving them a ring.

[micky_d01]

turbo looks like a t25 or a t28 off a nissan silvia. if u could drive it to the gold coast, im pretty sure chiptorque do ecu's, although im not 100% sure. try giving them a ring.

lol theres plenty of places that do ECU's, y would I go down the coast for it? Does chiptorque do hondata? Or are you saying the're worth going to the coast for??

[Aza]

apc are the hondata dealers up here...but like i said most ppl wait for southern dealers to go interstate. not that i have heard anything bad about apc, just heard alot of good about southern tuners

[SeverAMV]

well with regards to running the turbo on 12 psi boost, if you're sure its a nissan turbo, ask around how much boost it runs factory on a nissan forum. if its a ceramic turbine and you run more than 10-15% over factory boost, the turbine's gonna fall off and shatter and do some big $$$ damage. if you want that much boost from your turbo, you should replace the ceramic turbine with a high flowed steel turbine, ball bearing is always good for response.

oh and i think most piggyback ecu chips for hondas are made for naturally aspirated motor, so theres minimal chance of you running it straight out of the box safely with a turbo conversion, definitely get it tuned. as far as i know, naturally aspirated honda's run a lean air to fuel ratio, and adding a turbo will give it more air at a higher pressure, so you'll be pushing your motor to the limit a bit running it on a base piggyback map designed for an NA car. that and most piggyback chips for NA cars have a tendency to make the air to fuel ratio leaner.

if you wanted to keep spending money and excess modifications down to a minimum, probably would have been better to get a small supercharger like an SC13/14 off an old toyota. probably end up less annoying and the response would improve noticeably. altho you wont get the balls out power you're aiming for, it runs a small amount of boost so it wont stress out the internals as much as a turbo system, and should only require some custom work to fit it, and minor ecu tweaks. only other downside is it doesnt go PSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHT everytime the throttle body closes.

[flipstar]

PM WEQ he built 1 of the fastest D series motors on OH he should be able to help you out