Rear Housing question

[gReY-oNe]

My friend is getting a turbo put in his h22a
and we decided to go t3/t04e 57 trim turbo
and we are wondering what housing would be better for it
either .64 or .84 housing


Regards Bao

[creativepunka]

.84 imo.

[gReY-oNe]

hey sorry we are kinda lost in this area...

wonna umm explain why??

[NEED VTEC]

the smaller the rear housing the more responsive the turbo, the bigger the more lag you get (but more top end power)

[DLO01]

My friend is getting a turbo put in his h22a
and we decided to go t3/t04e 57 trim turbo
and we are wondering what housing would be better for it
either .64 or .84 housing


Regards Bao

A/R is the AREA / RADIUS of the housing, weather it be the Compressor side or Turbine size.

Area is the cross sectional area of the Scroll.

Radius is the distance from center of Shaft to center of Scroll


.64 as the turbine housing is better low speed response, but is less likely to hold higher power.

.84 as the turbine housing will not respond as well at low speed, but will perform better at high speeds.

Search A/R ratio on Google for more of an explanation.

Personally, I would get a GT turbo.

[creativepunka]

Iam using a .60/.64AR on my new D16. I think you will be better off with a larger housing as you will have 2.2L to push the sucker. What sort of power will you be chasing?

[SLOWEGG]

Im using a .86 on my B16A, still very responsive low down.

[gReY-oNe]

thanks guys for all the help


power figures are :zip:

[|N|]

omg bao r u turboing ur car.. u crazy mogo

[destrukshn]

0.86
imo.

[gReY-oNe]

omg bao r u turboing ur car.. u crazy mogo
IT SAYS MY FRIENDS CAR!!!

he dusnt go on here so he asked me to ask
i have no money

[destrukshn]

hence the sig.
lol.

[gReY-oNe]

*nods*
lmao

[WPN.22R]

Bao, come past the shop with your friend. Have you guys done any work to the engine? I have a fully built H22 bottom end i wanna sell as well.

pm me yO!


-Elee

[string]

Anyone with a .86 a/r turbine who thinks it's responsive is either in extreme lag denial or has never experience a serious response machine (ala stock turbo setup) :D

[SLOWEGG]

Anyone with a .86 a/r turbine who thinks it's responsive is either in extreme lag denial or has never experience a serious response machine (ala stock turbo setup) :D

i dont think you know what you're talking about.

[string]

Im using a .86 rear housing on my stock b16a, i hit full boost just before 3500. High compression helps with the spool.


i dont think you know what you're talking about.
What prompted this sudden change of heart?

Now my post was made partially in jest because you'd truly have to be mad to argue, it's less than simple physics, it's basic logic - smaller turbo, faster spool, where's the problem?

We're discussing turbo response, and you start telling me about what RPM you hit full boost? That's fantastic! Make a new thread! It's not information of any relevence here.

We are talking about RESPONSE - that's how fast your motor produces the power you want after you step on the fun pedal - not to be confused by you with anything to do with partial or full boost thresholds.

What are the full specs on your turbo. Must be a small compressor to hit full boost at that low an RPM on a 1.6L; or you're running 5psi.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

[SLOWEGG]

All i was trying to say is with a .86 rear housing, it will still be very responsive and not laggy as you may think it will be.

[string]

I've driven one particular setup with turbine a/r's .42, .63 and .86 - you can definately feel the difference between them all. I'm not saying that a .86 will be a response pig, but you'll definately feel like your missing something if you use the boost for more than straight line pulls. It is quite impressive you hit full boost at such a low rpm though. Care to go into any more details?

[[[d a n n y]]]

wat does your friend want easy to use low to mid range power?
or top end?

[gReY-oNe]

Bao, come past the shop with your friend. Have you guys done any work to the engine? I have a fully built H22 bottom end i wanna sell as well.

pm me yO!


-Elee

hey elee i didnt see teh post till today
PM SENT!!!

ill prob drop by this friday?


];1257436']wat does your friend want easy to use low to mid range power?
or top end?

i think its .86 it is
its still goint o be a daily driver
so lag is intended to save petrol LOL

[barefootbonzai]

don't worry about string hai, his just a dickhead who likes to talk about theroy's in la la land.

Don't bother sharing your real life experience's here, let super smart guys like string anwser it.

Grey-One your friend shouldn't get .86 cause string says it's way too non-responsive and will drive like shit.

[HondaLva]

hey elee i didnt see teh post till today
PM SENT!!!

ill prob drop by this friday?



i think its .86 it is
its still goint o be a daily driver
so lag is intended to save petrol LOL

ROFLs thats gold :P

[string]

don't worry about string hai, his just a dickhead who likes to talk about theroy's in la la land.

Don't bother sharing your real life experience's here, let super smart guys like string anwser it.

Grey-One your friend shouldn't get .86 cause string says it's way too non-responsive and will drive like shit.
Listen to this guy. He's the kind of guy who instead of putting up a discussion, simply puts down another's argument with no basis. I present my opinions and experiences, it's up to the end user to choose what to do with them. You present no opinions. I know who i'd rather listen to.

Please quote where I said it would drive like shit? I said it would be laggier and less responsive than a smaller A/R turbine - you're saying i'm wrong? When did I bring theory into this discussion again? Oh wait I didn't I simply told you my actual driving experience. Sure it wasn't a honda but it's all the same deal. When I bring theory into a discussion, if you can't understand how it relates to real world performance then stay out of the topic because you are useless to all those in it.

I'm actually quite surprised that you've still got a grudge deep inside. Really sad man - get a life.

[gReY-oNe]

ok... now we are alot more confused then wen we started

might make it easier if i said what the car will be used for
this car wont be for just straight line im sure he would wonna track it one day
it will still be a daily driver
and he is not out for massive power
just abit of fun

[barefootbonzai]

Please quote where I said it would drive like shit? I said it would be laggier and less responsive than a smaller A/R turbine - you're saying i'm wrong?


This bit is what i consider theroy. It it true? YES - But does it matter? NO



When did I bring theory into this discussion again? Oh wait I didn't I simply told you my actual driving experience. Sure it wasn't a honda but it's all the same deal.

Um NO, we are talking about a honda here. No use talking about what turbo is suited for another engine.



When I bring theory into a discussion, if you can't understand how it relates to real world performance then stay out of the topic because you are useless to all those in it.


You've done nothing but to confuse the guy asking the question.



I'm actually quite surprised that you've still got a grudge deep inside. Really sad man - get a life.

nar, your responses are just annoying.

[string]

You've done nothing for the guy asking the question but bring useless debate into his topic. If you have nothing to add, then say nothing at all. Simple. You have a go at me for bringing in theory then tell me it's true but that doesn't matter? Arguing just for the sake of arguing...


Um NO, we are talking about a honda here. No use talking about what turbo is suited for another engine.

This is a moot point. We are discussing the effects of A/R on response/lag/spool/whatever, not which specific turbo are best suited for a Honda engine - he's already decided on that part. My experience was on a cammed SR20 with torque curve similar to that of a VTEC honda motor, regarding the response. I did not mention matching to honda motors anywhere - Regardless of such striking similarities, how do you care to explain that a different motor is going to drastically differ in turbine characteristics?



nar, your responses are just annoying.

Then don't reply. You aren't helping people which ironically is what you're having a go at me for.

OP: Unfortunately turbo sizing is just like spring rates. You can't have someone else tell you what you'll like. The best you can do is find dyno graphs of other people's setups you like the shape of and go with that.
With a high revving vtec motor, they demand a fair bit of airflow (i.e. torque does not drop as compared to a single cam profile motor), so a .42 a/r turbine might choke you a bit higher; Conversely, a .86 might give you a bit too much lag, and on the track might not give you very smooth corner exit acceleration. My money is on the 0.63 housing. So long as you aren't planning on taking the compressor to the limit, you can always up the boost a bit and get a bit more power out of it while still retaining good spool characterisics.

[barefootbonzai]

Every has replied and said .86 is fine, and stated you don't notice any lag with it. You jump on talking about your buddies SR20 engine setup, and saying that smaller will give you more response... no shit.

But the whole point is, you don't notice any lag with .86, so y complicate things with your rubbish, and sacrific power for the sake of response that you would have never noticed anyway.

everyone - .86
string - .63

I guess we'll let the topic creator choose.

[string]

ROFL this is getting hilarious. Please point me to my "rubbish". The difference between myself and you is that I am attempting to help people get what they want by asking more questions and giving more detailed answers than normal. You on the other hand, don't add anything to any topics, instead just attacking the arguer instead of the argument. I see this behaviour a lot and it's common with people who don't have much substance to backup their words.

One person has said that "0.86 is fine". They have not gone into any more details other than "it's very responsive down low". What the hell does that mean? One man's responsive is one man's laggy hog. You don't even have boost "down low", so any response is just going to be response related to lesser vacuum generated in the manifold - possibly completely independant of the turbine side of things. Without specifics you have an useless mess. If you think that's enough for someone to make a decision then that's your perogative, but I actually like to help people get what they want, not what other people think they want.

It's been mentioned by more than myself that a 0.86 will lack boost response compared to a smaller turbine, and will have a big more lag. There's no two ways around it. The only reason you make more power with a larger one is because you can still efficiently push full boost through it at high rpm, thus generating full torque up high. Now, is the OP going to push the compressor to the max? If not, he could get the same peak power, but at a lower rpm by adding more boost. He'll now have similar peak power, but less lag and more boost response, a great combination for a street/track car. Drag cars are a completely different story, of course you'd want maximum area under the curve, with little regards to response or boost thresholds.

Saying you don't notice any lag with a 0.86 housing is blatently false and ignorant, you'll always have lag in there (to a point) - it's a 2.2L motor, not a 6L V8. Stop contradicting yourself. You're now telling me that a smaller housing will give less response but a 0.86 gives no lag, so a lesser gives what, negative lag?

Let's hear some more information from the B16A user with the 0.86 housing. Very interested in seeing dyno graphs with boost plots, or some datalogs showing boost response from varying rpm's.

And something important here... I'm 'complicating' things because TURBOS ARE COMPLICATED. The OP won't be laughing when he realises he's spent $1000 on a turbo which he doesn't like, would you? It's foolish not to do research before spending that kind of money, please don't encourage this behaviour.

Mate, the only person bringing rubbish into this thread is you. Get over yourself.

[destrukshn]

0.86
on a 1.6 motor is too much.
but this is going on a 2.2 motor.
it's gonna be different obviously.
a much more torquier motor, which can spool up the 0.86 housed turbo faster than a 1.6.
obvisously the 0.63 is gonna be more responsive, but in the end, it's kinda up to the OP to figure out that they want, 0.86, is gonna lag, probably another 500rpm more than the 0.63, it's not a big sacrifice. in my eyes.

[string]

It's all relative, if you increase engine capacity, you don't just increase the size of the turbine, you need a bigger compressor. A compressor driving a 2.2L motor as efficiently as a 1.6L motor with the same relative masses of air will be considerably larger.

What you've said is definately true if you simply attach the same turbo onto both engines. Clearly you don't see LS1 turbo's with 2.5 a/r turbines :D

For a street/track car, 500rpm in my eyes definately is something to consider. For example in second gear, in my car, that's around 7-8kph more. If that little bit of speed is the difference between having power right when I need it in corners I plan to drive on, or having to wait even one second for power, then I know what i'd choose.

Now take this as you like, barefootbonzai this is where you go play with some crayons - On the setups I drove, the most fun was the 0.63. The .42/.48 had too little top end, it just died way too early to give that big surge of fun after the apex. The 0.86, while an absolute monster in a straight line just seems too laggy. The 0.63 was a balance of high power with good repsonse and lag. Your mileage may vary, so best to find some new friends with turbos and be a passenger.

[barefootbonzai]

yeah yeah, keep editing your responses.

You are complicating things. You're the one contridicing yourself, now bring in 6L V8's into the equation when you said it doesn't matter what engine we are talking about...

there already been a few with 1.6L HONDA turbo'd engines owners saying that an .86 would be much better suited, yet you're arguing with your mates SR20 and 6L V8's and telling the guy to get an .63

[destrukshn]

obviously.
well, that was my explatnation, since you decided to pick at my first reply to this thread.
lol

[barefootbonzai]

lmao string's car takes 1sec to move up 500rpm, all the studying and research has paid off.

[supersamEK]

yeah yeah, keep editing your responses.
uhhh....??? lame.


You are complicating things. You're the one contridicing yourself, now bring in 6L V8's into the equation when you said it doesn't matter what engine we are talking about...

there already been a few with 1.6L HONDA turbo'd engines owners saying that an .86 would be much better suited, yet you're arguing with your mates SR20 and 6L V8's and telling the guy to get an .63
you guys both have valid information, yet are digging urselves holes. from the outside, i dont understand wat you are arguing about? doesnt make any sense?
someone give in, leave the egos at rest.

[JasonGilholme]

From what i've read (which is probably only a small percentage of what others have read) the 1.6ltr honda engine needs to be treated like any other 2 litre engine (SR20 for example) when choosing a turbo setup.

So AFAIK if a .86 rear housing works well on something like an sr20 it should work well with a b16.

Hopefully he doesn't base his choice on this thread alone cause theres much better information out there then what there is in here.

[dc2dc2dc2]

But its for H22A :)

[JasonGilholme]

then wtf is all this talk about the b16 for.

geez lol.

by the sounds of it .86 would suit a H22. :thumbsup:

[string]

I think we've seen the extent of Barefootbonzai's inteligence, attacking my vehicle or posting style in an attempt to prove his "point". Lame indeed...

If you can't understand the relevence of how I brought up a 6L V8 then you need to go back to preschool where they teach comprehension. How about you include some quote to what i'm saying when you finally decide you want to rebutt a point i've made. Until then, keep on going with your jibberish, it's hilarious how juvenile you're attitude is. Give up, you've got nothing buddy.

Let's have a poll... What's closer to a H22A. A cammed SR20 or a B16A? Remembering that the turbo doesn't know what manufacturer's motor it's attached to.

[90-POV]

lmao string's car takes 1sec to move up 500rpm

[riceball]

Can you enlighten us on why a .86 rear housing would lag the h22a motor? It spools up real good for both the 1.6l and 1.8l.

I'm planning on boosting my 2.0l later on and according to alot of the threads out there, a .86 rear housing is perfect. I don't understand why it would lag out the 2.2l.

[riceball]

Let's have a poll... What's closer to a H22A. A cammed SR20 or a B16A?

The b16a. Its still a honda engine. :thumbsup:

[string]

lmao string's car takes 1sec to move up 500rpm
Yep in 5th gear with gearing up to 500kph redlining at 5000rpm. I reach 100kph in 2 seconds. Are you just a ballrider or do you have something to add?

[string]

Can you enlighten us on why a .86 rear housing would lag the h22a motor? It spools up real good for both the 1.6l and 1.8l.

I'm planning on boosting my 2.0l later on and according to alot of the threads out there, a .86 rear housing is perfect. I don't understand why it would lag out the 2.2l.
No such thing as perfect, it's a subjective case.

[string]

The b16a. Its still a honda engine. :thumbsup:
Well you are right, if you're talking about appearance, or construction. The motor is just a black box to the turbo, all it cares about is it's capacity mainly, and the various efficiencies and other details get less and less important the more I list.

In the real world though, 2020cc is a bit closer to 2157cc than 1595cc. Even the redlines, gearing, torque curves and even bore diameter is more closely matched between a SR20 and a H22A than a B16A and a H22A.

[lilthug]

best thing 2 do if possible
is find 2 h22a setups
one setup with the .64 and the other with .86
drive
and see which one you like

but personally id say go the .86

[string]

http://dynos.evans-tuning.com/300whpstockh22a.jpg
t3/to4e 60 trim .63a/r at 10psi with a log manifold and 2.5" exhaust. Torque curve looks very similar to a NA H22A except raised up by a factor of 2. Little torque drop off at high engine speeds, most likely attributed partially to the log manifold. With a 3" exhaust you might gain a little bit up high. Disregard the actual figures, they are american and not comparable, it's the shape that is interesting.

Trying to find a graph of a larger a/r but h22a turbos aren't quite as common as the 1.8L's.

[SLOWEGG]

If a B16A is still very 'responsive' with a 0.86 turbo then im pretty sure a H22A can handle it quite fine.

Also he has made he's decision and a good one aswell.

[nigs]

Turbos go weeeeee.

[string]

If a B16A is still very 'responsive' with a 0.86 turbo then im pretty sure a H22A can handle it quite fine.

Also he has made he's decision and a good one aswell.
It is not a logical conclusion to say that increasing capacity means you can increase turbine a/r with no side effects. There are more attributes to a turbocharger to consider. Your particular turbo may be very 'responsive' on a H22A, but you've given absolutely no details on your setup so far, let alone more specifics of this 'response', so why should the OP listen to you at all?

I'm still waiting for a dyno graph of your B16A...

[barefootbonzai]

by editing what you say, is weak, kinda like taking back what you orginally said. And if dumb asses like supersamek can't understand that, he can hold your right pocket.

I'll be straight, i don't like you. I think you're a complete arse that always over complicate things for no reason. I'll let you continue to talk that guy into getting the .63 over the .86

[string]

If you think that the price of a turbocharger isn't worth the complications then maybe i'm just better with money than you.

There's always a complicated answer to everything. As i've said a thousand times, if you don't like it, don't read it, don't reply.

[nigs]

Tis how the motor produces the gases to spool zee turbozzzzzzzz.

Dare I say the B16a could probably produce similar volume in gases as a SR20, in the low to mid rpm range. :o

High comp vs mild comp. Meh.

Some guys are claiming 10-12psi @ ~3500rpm on a SR20 using the GT2871 .86AR. Not too dissimilar to the B16a eh?

[supersamEK]

by editing what you say, is weak, kinda like taking back what you orginally said. And if dumb asses like supersamek can't understand that, he can hold your right pocket.

I'll be straight, i don't like you. I think you're a complete arse that always over complicate things for no reason. I'll let you continue to talk that guy into getting the .63 over the .86
excuse me? dumbass? lol and who are who?

[string]

Tis how the motor produces the gases to spool zee turbozzzzzzzz.

Dare I say the B16a could probably produce similar volume in gases as a SR20, in the low to mid rpm range. :o

High comp vs mild comp. Meh.

Some guys are claiming 10-12psi @ ~3500rpm on a SR20 using the GT2871 .86AR. Not too dissimilar to the B16a eh?
Well I was talking about my mate's setup which is very similar to a H22A. The point was that the spool characteristics would be similar.

It all depends on the size of the compressor attached to it. A 400hp compressor attached to a given 0.86 housing will drive differently to a 300hp compressor attached to the same housing. If you don't do a lot of spirited cornering then I think the .86 will be better. The lag before full boost really is great fun. For quick power though, .63 is the go - there'll be 500-1000rpm difference in full boost between the two depending on the setup.

And for the record, I edit my posts with more information. Would you prefer if I cluttered up the forum with hundreds of posts? I'm not here to argue and become king shit. I dont' care if it's weak - i'm here to present information, not win a popularity contest.

[nigs]

Motors like the SR's and CA's aren't any fun off boost at all. Infact more boring that watching paint dry.

Honda's on the other hand are built to perform without boost (duh). So by adding the right charger with tune. Lag really isn't a issue, especially with a 8000rpm or more limit. So I doubt it would feel like a CA + T28 off boost.
If anything it'd just drive as it normally would and that's still quicker than a CA18 LOLOLOLOL.....

The motor should produce progressive power throughout the RPM range (ideally all performance motors should). Just as it would if it was still N/A. Making peak HP near redline.

Having more RPMs over a typical turbo motor, maybe the larger rear housing is the better choice.

If I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure it's possible to produce too much air, too early for the motor to swallow. Thus compressor surge.

T28 rear + T04 comp = LOL. 20psi @ 3500rpm AHOY.

[prelude4u]

by editing what you say, is weak, kinda like taking back what you orginally said. And if dumb asses like supersamek can't understand that, he can hold your right pocket.

I'll be straight, i don't like you. I think you're a complete arse that always over complicate things for no reason. I'll let you continue to talk that guy into getting the .63 over the .86

now i agree with u the .86 would be much better... but how about u tug ur small co(k thru ur right hand pocket and accept that they have a point... u are lame mate

[barefootbonzai]

now i agree with u the .86 would be much better... but how about u tug ur small co(k thru ur right hand pocket and accept that they have a point... u are lame mate

have you got a problem faggot? what's their point? like putting a 2" exhaust on a h22 is better, cause you'll get more response? It's just pain ****en stupid and too small, yes u will get more response, but you'll lose out on a whole lot more everywhere else.

[string]

have you got a problem faggot? what's their point? like putting a 2" exhaust on a h22 is better, cause you'll get more response? It's just pain ****en stupid and too small, yes u will get more response, but you'll lose out on a whole lot more everywhere else.
You give the worst comparasins i've ever seen. 2" Exhaust, what the hell are you on about?

Last time I checked the OP said his friend wanted it for track work, not all out power.

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4556
Using the exact turbo in question with a 0.63 a/r turbine, seems to be pushing 330whp absolutely fine.

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4631
0.64 a/r pushing 375hp.

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4653
Here's a good one, pushing 500hp through a 0.63 a/r turbine.

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4651
0.63 a/r 465hp.

And please, don't bother arguing that they aren't H22A's - the turbine doesn't know the difference between a H22A and a lawnmower. The above examples show that you can push plenty of power through a smaller a/r turbine without losing "a whole lot more everything else". And that was just picking random exmaples from the first page.

For a street car, not out for massive power, you'd be mad to go for the biggest a/r you can find. H22A's aren't as high revving as the lower capacity VTEC's, 750 rpm to one of them is more important than to a B16A.

To the OP's Friend: How much power is he after? Stock block? More details would be nice.

[gReY-oNe]

You give the worst comparasins i've ever seen. 2" Exhaust, what the hell are you on about?

Last time I checked the OP said his friend wanted it for track work, not all out power.

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4556
Using the exact turbo in question with a 0.63 a/r turbine, seems to be pushing 330whp absolutely fine.

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4631
0.64 a/r pushing 375hp.

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4653
Here's a good one, pushing 500hp through a 0.63 a/r turbine.

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4651
0.63 a/r 465hp.

And please, don't bother arguing that they aren't H22A's - the turbine doesn't know the difference between a H22A and a lawnmower. The above examples show that you can push plenty of power through a smaller a/r turbine without losing "a whole lot more everything else". And that was just picking random exmaples from the first page.

For a street car, not out for massive power, you'd be mad to go for the biggest a/r you can find. H22A's aren't as high revving as the lower capacity VTEC's, 750 rpm to one of them is more important than to a B16A.

To the OP's Friend: How much power is he after? Stock block? More details would be nice.



the block is stock
his just after abit of fun i guess
wat kinda details are ya after??

[string]

Well if it's stock block, you'll most likely reach the limits of your engine well before you get into the region where a 0.86 a/r turbine will be choking you.

What sort of manifold? Log or equal length? How big exhaust/Dumppipe?
Does he have a power figure in mind?

[barefootbonzai]

what good are these dyno sheets without other ones to compare them with? And i can't believe you're saying it doesn't matter what engine the turbo is mounted on.

Read above, i think nigs has explained it in a much better way than i did.

[riceball]

A couple of Nissan SR20's would pull a premium one week before race wars.

[gReY-oNe]

String: all the work is custom ie manifold, and all piping
so trust is on my fabricator to do his work and make the manifold for my needs. making it as efficient as possible

Thanks for the help from everyone
but my mind is made up
.86 it is
i just rang to ask my farbricator and that seems to be his choice for me too
just wnated to get other peoples opinion b4 we went ahead as i didnt feel like wasting my money from lack of research yet again

i can deal with the slight loss in response as i dont drive hard anyway..


Regards gReY-oNe's friend

p.s keep discussion goin as it might help someone esle down the line

[supersamEK]

Regards gReY-oNe's friend

^^^^..

[gReY-oNe]

I thought it was for your friend :wave:

im using her account
cos u can no longer start a new OH account with hotmail..

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[barefootbonzai]

That source of information was pefect to prove my point. The honda engine made more power everywhere over the SR20 running more boost.

honda engine .86 on 10psi
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4553

SR20 with .63 - on 18psi
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4631

[DLO01]

Grey-one, you will be fine with the 0.86 A/R. You have made a good decision.

Lag is not such a bad thing as people make out or sterotype with. It is actually a good thing.

Your car drives like it was NA and when you want some more the turbo will respond for you.

With normal everyday driving, you don't want to be boosting all the time. Boost causes heat. A bigger turbo is nice and cool down low. Which is what you want for prolonged engine life.

A wise old man taught me that.

[JasonGilholme]

This is an interesting graph:

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4629

.63 rear housing yet it has crap all torque/power in the low end.

Could this be because the compression has been dropped to 9:1???

[SLOWEGG]

I didnt look at the link Jason but compression does play a role.

[90-POV]

Grey-one, you will be fine with the 0.86 A/R. You have made a good decision.

Lag is not such a bad thing as people make out or sterotype with. It is actually a good thing.

Your car drives like it was NA and when you want some more the turbo will respond for you.

With normal everyday driving, you don't want to be boosting all the time. Boost causes heat. A bigger turbo is nice and cool down low. Which is what you want for prolonged engine life.

A wise old man taught me that.

agreed:thumbsup: 0.86 A/R FTW..
as for string
wat a faggot
his car takes 1sec to move up 500rpm

[dupac->]

lol @ greyone's friend..

[grumpy rooster]

Have any of you guys looked at the cars in the US? Big comp cover and small exhaust housing (relative to the same comp cover on say a 6 or 8). And they are the ones running the times in "stockish" type cars.

There is a reason for this. :)

[DLO01]

Stuff the states. :p

Mine stock B18C7

204kw at the treads.

GT3037S
1.06 A/R rear housing
0.60 A/R front housing

[JasonGilholme]

you serious dean?? 1.06 rear???

and here i was thinking that a 1.6 litre wouldn't be able to push a .86 well enough hahaha

Why the 0.60 front housing??

[string]

That source of information was pefect to prove my point. The honda engine made more power everywhere over the SR20 running more boost.

honda engine .86 on 10psi
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4553

SR20 with .63 - on 18psi
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4631
This post was perfect to prove my point that you have absolutely no idea in how power is generated in an internal combustion engine. Don't bother replying anymore, you don't have anything of use to anyone in this thread. P.s. if you're going to bring up something stupid like the above, at least overlay the graphs at the correct rpm points.

grumpy rooster: Don't bother explaining things to people in this forum it's a waste of time.

Grey_One's Friend: Good luck with your turbo project. Can't wait till you come back and say how happy you are with your setup so morons like barefoot can say "I told you so" - boost puts a smile on your face no matter how late it hits :)

[dupac->]

the hypothesis of the daphsosis in the remomsaurus is very important.

[grumpy rooster]

Stuff the states. :p

Mine stock B18C7

204kw at the treads.

GT3037S
1.06 A/R rear housing
0.60 A/R front housing

Thats crazy mate. That cannot be good to drive on the street. By the time it makes boost another car the same with smaller turbo has already put 2 car lengths on you.

[JasonGilholme]

i've had a ride in this thing and it doesn't take long to spool up at all.

Definately doesn't feel laggy at all (standard compression helps i guess)

[grumpy rooster]

What rpm does it make boost? How much boost before it hits Vtec?

[DLO01]

Yeh, its not really that bad. Could be Dyno Daves super tunning.

Not sure exactly yet.

Between 4-5k rpm it boost kicks in sooo hard.

Then I think Vtec come in.

Have to confirm it, have not driven it much since I got it tunned last week.

[gReY-oNe]

Grey_One's Friend: Good luck with your turbo project. Can't wait till you come back and say how happy you are with your setup so morons like barefoot can say "I told you so" - boost puts a smile on your face no matter how late it hits :)

i was actually aiming for it to hit a tad late
rememebering its still a daily driver gets me to and from work
plus i hardly rev the car over 3000rpm

thanks for the well wishes
will post up follow up pictures in a couple of weeks
and hopefully ill be happy with the way it runs after tunning
:D :D :D

[string]

Well having a big ehxaust housing is one way off keeping you off boost early.

The other way is right foot control... but we all know how hard that can be!

[barefootbonzai]

This post was perfect to prove my point that you have absolutely no idea in how power is generated in an internal combustion engine. Don't bother replying anymore, you don't have anything of use to anyone in this thread. P.s. if you're going to bring up something stupid like the above, at least overlay the graphs at the correct rpm points.


how about you stop acting so super smart wanker and explain. I"m waiting. At any rpm the corresponding hp is higher, please explain oh mr super intellectual.

[string]

how about you stop acting so super smart wanker and explain. I"m waiting. At any rpm the corresponding hp is higher, please explain oh mr super intellectual.
Open your eyes to 5000rpm. Open your eyes to the relevence of your amazing finding? We are talking about turbine characteristics, not how well a particular turbo performs on a particular setup. Compression ratio, more effiencent compressors or cams for the particular turbo, theres a million reasons the f20c makes more power. I was using those graphs to show that many people are making plenty of power with a 0.63 a/r rear housing, and that you won't be "missing out" on a whole pile of fun until you start to push the limits of the housing. I have no idea what you are trying to show because you simply say "this proves my point". Sorry, that isn't an argument, that's just childish jibberish.

I'm not a lecturer. If you want to learn something then go do a tafe or uni course on it.

My only problem with you, apart from your ignorance is that you have absolutely no idea how to have an intelectual conversation. If you want to rebutt something i've said, quote it, and argue against the words in the quote. Also, stop utilising insults to attempt to prove a point, you just look like a moron. Until then there's simply no point in me replying to you.

[hinezz]

this thread is spoolin!! wen do we hit full boost? LOL!

[barefootbonzai]

all this time i've been talking about honda engines that are high comp compared to your low comp sr20 in comparsion. And as you can see, being a orginally intended for NA use engine, the lag you're talking about with SR engine is not apparent as you've been trying to prove/complicate matters.

What happened to all that talk about it doesn't matter what engine we're talking about?

Y do you think you'res so smart, you're a ****en e-machanic, probably never worked on a car in your life.

[string]

Are you asking something? Speak english. No I don't think i'm "so smart". There are a hell of a lot of people out there I envy in terms of knowledge. You're not one of them though.

I was waiting for you to pull out the e-mechanic card, it's a good one, keep it up champ. Assuming just makes you look like more of a fool.

[barefootbonzai]

yeah just engore the questions you can't answer. it's ok. you still haven't showed y picking the smaller housing in this particalur case is the better choice.

[string]

Yes I have. Less lag, better boost response, with no tangible loss in peak power due to not even approaching the limits of the turbine.

And no, I'll answer any question I can understand, and that fits in the argument. But not your pointless ones that serve no purpose and have no basis in the topic at hand.

[90-POV]

......

[barefootbonzai]

Yes I have. Less lag, better boost response, with no tangible loss in peak power due to not even approaching the limits of the turbine.


In real life applications that i have seen myself and been involved with, using larger housings than .63 - there is no apperent lag, boost response is great and the owner is always wanting to go larger for more power. Seems kinda stupid to wanna go backwards.

[Bludger]

i was actually aiming for it to hit a tad late
rememebering its still a daily driver gets me to and from work
plus i hardly rev the car over 3000rpm

thanks for the well wishes
will post up follow up pictures in a couple of weeks
and hopefully ill be happy with the way it runs after tunning
:D :D :DI though it was your friends car??????????

is he using your account?

[riceball]

Open your eyes to 5000rpm. Open your eyes to the relevence of your amazing finding? We are talking about turbine characteristics, not how well a particular turbo performs on a particular setup. Compression ratio, more effiencent compressors or cams for the particular turbo, theres a million reasons the f20c makes more power.

Correct.

If you know this, then why are you comparing honda engines with a sr20? We are talking about HONDA engines, not NISSAN or TOYOTA, or DIAHATSU. The honda engines not only have higher compression but are mean revving machines. The .63 may be great for the engine, and MAY create better response, however as from personal experiences from many members on here, the .86 works just as well and creates a better peak power.

The owner has made his decision and I'm quite sure alot of people on here would agree that he has made the right one. :thumbsup:

[90-POV]

In real life applications that i have seen myself and been involved with, using larger housings than .63 - there is no apperent lag, boost response is great and the owner is always wanting to go larger for more power. Seems kinda stupid to wanna go backwards.

not for STRING cos his car only takes 1 second to move up 500rpm
thats wat i call RESPONSE

[string]

not for STRING cos his car only takes 1 second to move up 500rpm
thats wat i call RESPONSE
You'd think that after trying to be funny twice with no response you'd give up?

[dupac->]

not for STRING cos his car only takes 1 second to move up 500rpm
thats wat i call RESPONSE
HAHAHAH

[Bludger]

Bludger loves flaming

[string]

HAHAHAH
3rd time lucky, another bitch sucking on barefoot's teet!

[dupac->]

3rd time lucky, another bitch sucking on barefoot's teet!
lol who's barefoot?

i dont even know the bloke..


HAHAHA dont be cut bro.. its ok..

[Bludger]

ROFLMAO

Nubs = n00b = n00bie = sting = BTB

[dupac->]

haha u just seem so cut over this shit.. so why not pay out on it..

lol..

everyone can suck my teet

[string]

lol who's barefoot?

i dont even know the bloke..

HAHAHA dont be cut bro.. its ok..
ROFL don't kid yourself, I don't get cut over morons spilling jibberish on an internet forum. This is funny to me, seeing you all get so worked up yet not producing any technical arguments of your own, only insults. It's pathetic really.

[dupac->]

ROFL don't kid yourself, I don't get cut over morons spilling jibberish on an internet forum.

then dont reply to the jibberish then.. lol idiot.

[Bludger]

2pac has big boobies
LOL

[string]

then dont reply to the jibberish then.. lol idiot.
Why not? I'm having a good time. Idiot.

[dupac->]

ROFL don't kid yourself, I don't get cut over morons spilling jibberish on an internet forum. This is funny to me, seeing you all get so worked up yet not producing any technical arguments of your own, only insults. It's pathetic really.

lol relax ur sacks mate.. its really ok.

[dupac->]

2pac has big boobies
LOL

u want a piece of this too?
shieeeet

[Bludger]

why don't you 2 just kiss and make up

and barefoot can stand on the side, and rub both your arses

LMAO

[dupac->]

^^ who cares just stirrin.. i dont even know what theyre talking about
HAHHAA

[Bludger]

gReY-oNe's friend won't be so happy about us spammin his thrwad.

LOL

[gReY-oNe]

U BASTARDS
theres like a million pages of SPAM!!!

[90-POV]

Why not? I'm having a good time. Idiot.

bcoz ur an E-mechanic .. but in real life, nobody listens to u and wen it comes to hands on work with REAL problems ur clueless

[string]

bcoz ur an E-mechanic .. but in real life, nobody listens to u and wen it comes to hands on work with REAL problems ur clueless
Stop letting your own insecurities about being shit with a spanner get in the way. My mechanical skills are fine thank you very much, but thanks for the preminition nola.

[90-POV]

Stop letting your own insecurities about being shit with a spanner get in the way. My mechanical skills are fine thank you very much, but thanks for the preminition nola.

no need to thank me.. only stating the obvious mate:thumbsup:

[Bludger]

LMAO
spam thread FTW

[string]

no need to thank me.. only stating the obvious mate:thumbsup:
Sorry we're not all clairvoyant like you, care to refer me to places which indicates i'm clueless? I've done plenty of mechanical work, how many times do I need to repeat it until it sinks in.

If you need to attack other people's mechanical experience to win a battle on the internet, then you're more hopeless than I thought... Run along now and bolt on that cold air intake.

[Bludger]

^^

you're not an E-machanic, you're a keyboard warrior

a good one too

[Weq]

holy shit.

this sums up ozhonda

bunch of retards.

[Bludger]

LMAO

just here to laugh

[string]

It is pretty funny - does TeamPOV actually talk to anyone's customers in real life?

[riceball]

It is pretty funny - does TeamPOV actually talk to anyone's customers in real life?

lol? anyones customers? whos customers are u referring to. We've done alot of projects ourselves any for many others thank you very much.

[riceball]

Hey, wait, hold up! I don't have any cash, but I do have the pink slip to my car

[string]

Hey, wait, hold up! I don't have any cash, but I do have the pink slip to my car
Sweet let's race; my sister always wanted a civic.

[riceball]

Sweet let's race; my sister always wanted a civic.

Bring it.

I'll see you in the desert next month. Be ready to have your ass handed to you.

[ginganggooly]

It is pretty funny - does TeamPOV actually talk to anyone's customers in real life?

Those boys are all over the brissy honda scene. Most of their cars are weapons too...

Come to think of it, there are more fast hondas in that little congregation than any other I can think of...

[nigs]

FYI, SR20's have a C/R of 8.5:1
Not far off the B18c2's! :p (I think)

IMO, it all comes down to the tuning.
Many things can be done to produce boost earlier.

"The 50 shot is just to spool the sucker, I'd like to see boost before 5,000rpm" - GTS-32.

[bennjamin]

Closed again for the usual reasons.

Keep teh off topic posts to the SPAM thread and all negative comments to pm or out of OH