Service every 10,000km WHY?

[marosch]

Hi guys,

my Euro is at the moment at the dealer for the first service. I'm actually quite surprised that they have to change the oil already after 1,000km (never had that before) and then every 10,000km. And then an oil change without the filter? I always thought that all the dirt is in the filter.

I asked the service manager today and he explained it with the Australian conditions.
I think this is bullshxt. What is different between Melbourne and Rome or Chicago?

All the cars I owned in Europe required a service between 15,000 and 50,000km. Why is it that Hondas needs more service in AUS than in the US or Europe. And why is it that a Honda needs more service than a Mitsubishi or BMW?

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I couldn't find a similar thread.

BTW The dealer pulled the dashboard apart to find the rattle. Hopefully I get it back tomorrow without a rattle.

Cheers

[EuroDude]

The 1000km one is due to the initial engine wear. A lot of metallic particles need to be removed to avoid excessive wear. But these days Honda dont do the 1000km service on some models. I think the Euro is one of them now (I think they use special oil or a new oil catch design or something).

Most Japanese cars get serviced every 10,000km. Thats the way they are designed.

BMW and other Europeans are designed to last 15,000 but the engine oil can degrade and buildup into sludge, and the parts are more expensive.

[shadou]

you can DIY to save yourself money if that's what concerns you.
Not sure if this applies to all european made motors but I've noticed they build up a lot of sludge and gunk that stick to crap compared to jap motors, especially Volvo's.
Point is oil degrades over time

[ok2]

Service includes a list of checks that are mainly preventative and while are some are simple, some are not or require specialised equipment. Yes, the cost does seem high and this is one of the areas where "stealerships" make their money (they are in business after all).

These are some of the important things regular servicing does get you

1) Warranty - if not serviced at the regular intervals your warranty can be void. If a problem does occur (no car is 100% prefect) then even if not relevant to it you are giving them an excuse to argue "The vehicle has not been properly maintained to the required schedule and this has caused/contributed to the problem seen".

2) Longer life and better performance - Regular oil (and other fluid) changes are the cheapest means of keeping the engine etc. running well. Engines I have seen stripped down for major work (e.g. timing belt changes) at high mileage like 150,000 kms that had their oil changed every 5,000 kms are clean like new inside, are tight, trouble free and run well .

3) Better resale value - if regular maintenance history can been seen then this will reflect in the resale/trade in value. Cars depreciate fast enough anyway.

There are lots of ways to drive down the servicing costs such as using a reputable thrid party (e.g. Ultratune), bringing your own quality oil, ensure they don't pad the bill by "filling up the windscreen wiper fluid" and the like.

I recommend oil changes every 5,000 kms and oil filter changes every 10,000 kms but then maybe I'm a bit anal but engines treated this way last and last. Also compared to fuel costs oil and oil filters are dirt cheap.

[Drew]

50,000km for a service? NEVER heard of that... ever

Welcome to owning a vehicle

[Tobster]

What is different between Melbourne and Rome or Chicago?


For some reason, Australian fuel has a much higher sulphur content than in other parts of the world; that's why we get detuned versions of the hi-po Japanese cars here and why BMW won't be bringing any of its very latest V6 direct injection engines here.

Australian roads are generally of a lesser standard and we have a lot more dust here (which is why I think I read that Toyota does all of its dust sealing development testing in Australia) -- all of which impacts on the wear and tear on the car.

[Euro76]

For some reason, Australian fuel has a much higher sulphur content than in other parts of the world; that's why we get detuned versions of the hi-po Japanese cars here and why BMW won't be bringing any of its very latest V6 direct injection engines here.


BMW never made V6 engines, they made inline six engines.

[marosch]

Hi guys,

I am from Germany and my wife and I owned so far 24 cars, and 11 of them were brand new when I bought them.

In Australia we owned so far 5 cars and the Accord Euro is the first brand new car (my Verada was only one year old when I bought it).

I'm aware of resale value and warranty.

My question was WHY every 10K in AUS. In other countries it is 15K for the same car. I don' believe that Melbourne is a lot dustier then some cities in the US. Fuel quality should by now be very similar to Europe, hence the reason it is possible to buy Diesel cars and high powered 4 cyl. engines like the 1.4 TSI from VW.

If there are metal particles in an engine, than the manufacturer has done something completely wrong. This was the case 50 years ago but I don't believe modern engines still have that. It actually could damage the engine, especially high revving engines.

It is not about the cost, it is just a hassle to service a car that often. Furthermore it is a bit weird for me to change the oil and not the filter.
Isn't all the dirt in the filter?

I actually worked for Esso/Mobile 15 years ago and they did a long term test with some vehicles. They only replaced the filter every 10K and something like 0.5l of the top shelf oil. The wear on the engine wasn't any different to a similar engine which had the full oil change done every service.

Don't get me wrong, I still don't understand the policy from Honda when other manufacturers can strech the service to 15K or more.

@ DREW
AUDI A2 TDI needs service every 50,000km or when the board computer recommends. I didn't have a service in the 2 years I owned the car.

[Drew]

Fact of the matter is that Australia fuel is a lot worse than what is on offer in America and Europe; you might not think it but it is

Does it really matter anyway? I mean REALLY!!??!!

Metal shavings on a new motor are completely normal as the rings settle in; obviously you've never built a motor yourself

[tony1234]

I wouldn't go beyond 10k without changing BOTH oil and filter regardless what the manufacturer of any brand of car state in their service manual.In Sydney the stop start driving traffic that most of us have to put up with is hard enough on engine oil.HA state in their service manual oil change every 10k and oil filter every 20k!!Why.To keep service costs down.This is what my Honda service guy told me.He then said they change the filter every 10k regardless.

[aaronng]

The scheduled service is every 6 months because the engine oil is also used to drive the VTEC and VTC systems. The reason why it's listed as 10,000km because that is probably the average number of kms that most australian drivers do in 6 months.

[Tobster]

BMW never made V6 engines, they made inline six engines.

Quite right -- slip of the keyboard while writing in haste!

I found the ref though:
http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2285230.aspx

In Europe, the 5 Series debuts BMW's new High Precision Direct Injection range of naturally-aspirated engines. Delivering claimed power and torque increases by up to 15kW and 20Nm as well as improvements in fuel economy by up to 25 per cent, all European market six-cylinder 5s feature the new power units. Alas, according to BMW Australia, high sulphur content in local unleaded petrol means the engines can not be offered here.

[tron07]

It is not about the cost, it is just a hassle to service a car that often. Furthermore it is a bit weird for me to change the oil and not the filter.
Isn't all the dirt in the filter?

You can request them to change the oil filter too... I thought of doing that, but then I dont really trash the car, so at the end decided to follow the recomended service.

[V205]

Majority of car service books i've seen from sellers is that they've done servicing every 10,000km... and mostly disregarding time (so anywhere from 6mths to 12mths usually... I would worry if it was frequently in the 15+ mths.

[EuroBro]

RTFM ppl! it depends on the usage habits. If you cold start 2+ times a day, you should service more regulary than one cold start per day. It make sense coz the most engine ware happens during warmup.

Also, drive your car straight after starting, but do don't cane your car until is nice and warm.