B16a - How much power are you pulling?

[kunny]

Hey guys,

i'm driving an EJ8 with a b16a conversion. With the following mods:
- Full 2 1/4 exhaust
- Custom intake w 70mm TB
- Jun 3 Cams w toda adjustable cam gears
- Hondata s100 full standalone ECU.

Just dynoed 2 days back running only 93.5kw atw.
Quite disappointed with the dyno
should there be a cause for concern or is that quite normal with the mods?

thanks
kun

[SPEEDCORE]

Holy 70mm TB Batman!!

[IZY-10]

that sounds pretty low to me. What dyno was it done on and gear did they test it from?

[Kiz_EG6]

Dude, as above, that number seems a bit low, but it really depends on what B16 it is and also what dyno you had it run on.

Anyways, there is already a HUGE thread on this;

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1023

[destrukshn]

wouldn't a 2.5inch mandrel bent exhaust be better?
also add some headers, and it should jump up quite a bit.

[revNhevN]

stock manifold? what headers?

[turbo convert]

to me full exhaust means headers included!

[supersamEK]

tune?

[kunny]

yup...
headers included.
Dynoed on 4th gear.. which dyno i got to check.
it was done at APC-racing QLD.
it's a b16a4...

so go figure...

and yes it's tuned by APC-racing as well..

thanks for the input

[Kiz_EG6]

4th??
What's ur gear/diff ratio, i would expect that they would dyno it in 3rd!!

[aimre]

lol.. well it is just a b16

[czy_sol87]

93kw@fw is pretty low
and u've got stage 3 cams...
with these cams wouldnt the rpm range change, ie rev higher and vtec point higher as well???

[hondavti25]

just curious man how much all that including the conversion cost for the ej8 i am lookin at doing the same

[kunny]

so can anyone figure out, what the problem may be?

[dupac->]

its the tune or tuner i guess?

or even the dyno?

[kn1ghtm4r3]

thats a low figure. my mates stock car makes that if not bit more =/

[Nepolian]

I would try and find someone with a similar car to compare or go and find a new dyno and possible a tuner. Dont want to state the obvious but a good tuner can get you heaps of power.

Good luck

[tengsta]

air fuel ratios ??? would that cause it to be low??

[dupac->]

air fuel ratios?


wouldnt that determine on the tune/tuner? like whether they have a clue on what theyre doing.

[dupac->]

i think. pay good money to a tuner who knows what theyre doing with a honda.. and you should be mor ehappy.

but compare another ek on the dyno first i rekon before anythign,
with either simliar mods or even less mods.

[mrwillz]

a dyno charT?

[fatboyz39]

70mm Throttle body is too BIG. Go back to a 65mm or even a 62mm throttle body. What kind of intake you using?

[kunny]

Yeah,

the tuner told me that the intake manifold i got is not giving me any extra power. well i can have pics up, tell me what you guys think...

As for tuner info: i tuned my EJ @ APC-racing, QLD. they were pretty good till now.

[SPEEDCORE]

Aftermarket IM too?

Didn't see that in your shopping list on the first page.

[dsp26]

Hey guys,

i'm driving an EJ8 with a b16a conversion. With the following mods:
- Full 2 1/4 exhaust
- Custom intake w 70mm TB
- Jun 3 Cams w toda adjustable cam gears
- Hondata s100 full standalone ECU.

Just dynoed 2 days back running only 93.5kw atw.
Quite disappointed with the dyno
should there be a cause for concern or is that quite normal with the mods?

thanks
kun



dude...

JUN stage 3s are huge for your mods... your not making power coz ur dynamic compression is too low.

afaik static CR should be at least 12:1 for your mods to be effective.... to be honest your mods are a bad combo...

***EDIT***
how does your dyno sheet look? maybe they tuned for low-mid power.. but i highly doubt it with jun stage 3s...

[JasonGilholme]

yeah i agree. The rest of the motor needs to be built to support the other parts.

TB is way too big IMO and the cams are probably not the best for what you want.

They'd probably be great on a turbo setup.

[ek4-guy]

you must be doing something wrong as my b16a2 has 108kw with only I/H/E
no tune, no cams and no TB

[vti_ek9]

ek4-guy....108kw...u sure?
mates dc2 itr makes 108kw with i/h/e
n thats b18...not b16...big difference

[dsp26]

i've seen ek4-guys post.. he's got like toda headers or something...

don't get me wrong the original poster has a good start but he needs to raise compression... i get this feeling the choice in camshaft was a result of the mentality "bigger is better" which is wrong as the parts he's listed obviously don't work together well if theres something missing..

he's not making power due to the large cam duration decreasing dynamic compression ratio

[kunny]

yeah, i was seriously thinking bigger is better.
Oh well looks like i got to take out that 70mm intake. cos honestly it at the moment looks and sounds good.

[dsp26]

yeah, i was seriously thinking bigger is better.
Oh well looks like i got to take out that 70mm intake. cos honestly it at the moment looks and sounds good.

mate i suggest 'swapping' your cams with someone whose willing to take them and get something along the spec of Toda B/Skunk2 Stg2 + get a 0.4mm head gasket (toda, buddy club, spoon, etc).

If you are serious about keeping the JUN 3s then you at least need CTR pistons.

[kunny]

My dyno: 3rd time so far.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/kunny77/scan0002.jpg

My engine bay w the Intake manifold.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/kunny77/IMG_4416.jpg

help pls... haa

[Kiz_EG6]

My dyno: 3rd time so far.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/kunny77/scan0002.jpg

My engine bay w the Intake manifold.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/kunny77/IMG_4416.jpg

help pls... haa

pics don' woorkk!!

[krogoth]

interesting...........

keep us posted on wats goin on

and if and how u manage to fix it

btw, pics are working

[tengsta]

yeah keep us posted.. im curious too.. mi b16a is also makin crap power... worse then urs haha.. 110hp :S but mi air/fuel ratio is wacked... up and down everywhere

[kunny]

yeah i think i'll follow the DSP26's way(thanks for that)
Will upgrade pistons and see how it goes from there and most prob downgrade the intake manifold.
CTR pistons 81mm bore or oversized CTR pistons 81.50mm?
Does anyone have any recommendations regarding piston size, type and brand?
or are OEM CTR pistons good enough?

thanks

[czy_sol87]

the amount of labour ur gonna put into ripping appart the block and replacing pistons etc u might as well do everything properly and only pay for labour once

[kunny]

so what you recommending?

[ZeForce]

yeah i think i'll follow the DSP26's way(thanks for that)
Will upgrade pistons and see how it goes from there and most prob downgrade the intake manifold.
CTR pistons 81mm bore or oversized CTR pistons 81.50mm?
Does anyone have any recommendations regarding piston size, type and brand?
or are OEM CTR pistons good enough?

thanks

Depends how much you are willing to spend, CTR pistons are a cheaper option, but I would recommend something like Endyn Rollerwave pistons. Use oversized 81.50mm with new rings and make sure you bore and hone the cylinders so you have a fresh sealing surface. With those cams you would want at least 11.5 compression and maybe even as high as 12.5:1. All new bearings and seals at the same time wouldnt hurt either, stock rods should be fine. Those cams should be making good power all the way past 9k rpm with the appropiate headwork. That intake manifold may work fine your cams so I wouldnt be too hasty to get rid of it, get your compression up first and then go from there.

Have you had the engine compression tested?

[kunny]

thanks again.
While i was thinking of getting rid of the manifold of various reasons actually:
1. Get cash for further upgrades to engine internals
2. The manifold does not have position for the original sensors so it was pretty much customized. So the Auto choke start in a stock manifold has not been placed on this current manifold, therefore causing it to have cold starts, meaning i got to keep my foot on the gas for the next 5mins til it warms up. Warmed up idle: 1100rpm, on cold: it fluctuates from 550 - 1100rpm.

nope haven't had the compression tested. how should i go about doing that?

[ZeForce]

Just go to your local mechanic or workshop and ask for a leakdown and compression test

[kunny]

Any good Honda engine builders/tuners to recommend in QLD/Brisbane?
Would like to check out and get hands on opinion on this...
thanks

[SPEEDCORE]

Any good Honda engine builders/tuners to recommend in QLD/Brisbane?

You got more of a chance of finding rocking horse shit.

[kunny]

serious?
really that bad ah?
hmmm

[90LAN]

i would get rid of the intake manifold,70mm tb, and spec c cams u have
with that buy a the standard b16/b18cr intake manifold with the tb
buy a set of ctr or itr cams and get a nice set of 4-2-1 headers like toda,spoon, mugen etc
then get it retuned after that by dyno dave

[kunny]

For the dyno results could it be any gear box problems?
I'm running 100km/h on 5th Gear at about 3800rpm...
is that harsh?

[SPEEDCORE]

For the dyno results could it be any gear box problems?
I'm running 100km/h on 5th Gear at about 3800rpm...
is that harsh?

No its not a gearbox problem.

Explain what you mean by harsh?

That engine speed, at that km/h, in that gear will always be the same and will never change unless you change your ratios/FD/overall wheel diameter.

Something that has been debated between people is that dyno readings can change when there have been changes in gearing. Personally I beleive there is validity to it (no matter how subtle), but this would not be comming into play in your specific case.

EDIT: What 90LAN has said IMO is great advice..... more so from a POV that takes into account your lack of knowledge + already being led down the wrong path by listening to friends.

[dsp26]

differences between 3rd & 4th are poofteenth.... unless your making 1000hp.

generally you use 4th as MOST cars are closer to 1:1 on that gear... that said i haven't looked into Honda ratios yet. but there is a great thread in the DIY with that spreadsheet for a few hondas where you can see speeds per gear absed on ratio tyre size etc.... i repped it the other day... i'll post it if i find it again

[SPEEDCORE]

differences between 3rd & 4th are poofteenth.... unless your making 1000hp.


*nods* though I was talking about when you change an FD.