ED6/EF9 chassis

[bizee_1]

i just wanted to know if there has been anyone else who has raced a ed6/ef9 civic around wakefield or any racetrack.

and if they thought the backend was tail happy. (with/without rear swaybar)

and if/how they corrected it.


~
Ray

[SINISTR]

Is everything else stock? I found just by having really stiff suspension at the back will also make the tail slide around a little if you let of midway through a corner (CRX) or come into a corner on the brakes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn7Vmm3FK54

just thought id give this vid a plug - as it is a ED Civic :)

[bizee_1]

Nice vid.

No its fitted with whiteline springs / koni shocks, whtlne strut braces & upgraded F&R swaybars. Although minus rear swaybar at the moment.

I remember losing the backend a few times with the rear swaybar on. And obviously, more evident without.
With it on though, it was harder to pick when it would kick out, & countering would be almost too late most of the time.

i was thinking, besides putting back on the rear swaybar. would getting wider tyres at the rear improve that grip ? (as obvious as it might sound)

guess im trying to find a balance of the car to suit my driving style (watever that is).

[SINISTR]

im no expert but I've been told by fitting a 'thicker' front sway bar you can counteract the rear swaybar as it will 'induce' UNDERSTEER therefore reducing oversteer from the rear...

either that mate... OR...

focus on driving it without lift off through a corner... basically rather than hammering into the corner too quick, find a comfortable spot where you can still enter a corner with speed, maybe breaking straight deeper into the corner and then turn the wheel and once you start accelerating 'try' not to lift off the accelerator. try not to pulse the gas on and off. if you look at the vid, he keeps a steady pace all the way through the corner, there is no fluctuation.

[SeverAMV]

have you got a rear strut brace to stabilise the rear a bit?

the only thing that influences tyre grip is the compound of the tyre, not the width, but coincidentally, wider tyres have a tendency to use a softer compound to improve grip and bring the tyre life back down again. so getting a softer compound tyre on the rear might help. wider tires just help a bit more with cooling, so if you do long track runs, then wider tyres might help. but seeing as its a front wheel drive, probably better to get good tyres for both front and rear, so the understeer from only having grippy rear tyres doesnt screw you up.

if your backend is tailhappy at high speeds, you may be going a bit too fast and slamming on the brakes a bit too hard. if your car is an ED6, then slamming on the brakes a bit too hard can cause the tail to slide out as the rear brakes are drums and will be overpowered by the front discs.

[bizee_1]

yes, have strut braces f&r.
Also have discs at rear too.

hmm. thanks guys for your input anyhow. Much appreciated.
i'll try different things, or a combination of things.

-
Ray

[Kawasaki]

what rear camber are you running?

[SeverAMV]

hmm, where'd you get the rear disc conversion done and how much did that set you back? i've been told its not worth it on an ED.

[ralph_ef9]

i got white line 18mm sway bar for rear and no sway bar in front. tanabe pro spec coilover suspension all around my ef3.....195/50/15 advan neova x4,i am really happy with my set up.........

[bizee_1]

Kawasaki= The settings whiteline set them at 3 years ago. Which are the same settings i gave Tyrepower to check & re-align.
Rear Axle : Camber (L)1'31 (R)1'19

SeverAMV= As for price, don't know. was part of a b16a conversion 4 years ago.

Ralph_ef9= did you get any tail happiness when you race at the track ? really...no swaybar in front ?? nice EF by the way.

Since some of the members helping solve my problem are ED/EF owners.... what happened to the meet ??? (in that other thread)

[Kawasaki]

so -1 deg camber? personally at times i find -2 is not enough :)

[SlobberGoat]

....are you braking *into* the corner?
Also, how smooth/rough is your steering? I can kick the tail out on mine if I'm not smooth with my steering...

[SeverAMV]

you could always fit springs of a higher spring rate in the rear. or the other option is get your car corner balanced with the existing suspension (if your springs are ride height adjustable). altho cars usually look a little wonky after corner balancing...

[bizee_1]

so -1 deg camber? personally at times i find -2 is not enough :)
ah yes, my mistake. -1'31 & -1'19 left & right respectively. Thanks Kawasaki. i'll keep that in mind next time i go to get alignment done.

SlobberGoat= my main culprit is turn 8 @wakefield. even entering as slow as i could, even braking earlier, taking slightly different lines. once i turned the wheel & started to accelerate, it got taily. The other times i lost it with or without the rear swaybar on other corners, would've been driver error. But that day, arriving at turn 8 was a headache. i had to take it much slower than i have before in the past.

SeverAMV= thanks for your responses. aswell as everyone else.

After analysing everything & talking to my mate that was there on the day. it sounds like it was a combination of everything lol. at the time, i had no rear swaybar, less grippier tyres at the rear,(2month toyo T1R[F] old michelin HX mxv3a[R]), so when redlining 3rd gear from turn 7, braking hard into turn 8, which is a downhill off camber left hook turn. weight transfer(no rear swaybar), overheated rear tyres after a few laps. a nice recipe for losing the backend.

i'd like to hear ppl's thoughts on the above.

going to fix & put back rear swaybar, even out the grip of tyre at the rear.
get alignment reset again. then troubleshoot from their if im still not happy with handling. maybe stiffer springs, differnt combo's of swaybar sizes etc as you guys have mentioned.

basically i want to find the limits of this setup before doing anything else. i had this nicely done 3 years ago, but never take it to the track and get officially timed. finally get officially timed, but not everything is right. Frustrating!!!

also after reading over this again :
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2205&page=4

im sure chassis & setup is quicker than a showroom stock Barina SRi !

[SINISTR]

I was going to say 'tyres' as my next point - if they are older or getting hammered they will loose grip. I had a couple situations where the tyres just got way too hot and instead of gripping - they were like on ICE - rear stepping out.

[SeverAMV]

well if you think you'll be thrashing it at the track a lot more, i'd recommend getting wider tyres. altho wider tyres dont exactly improve grip, the contact patch takes up a smaller percentage of the tyre, so they will cool better, which can help out a tad when you're pushing them to their limit.

altho, if you see it from another point of view, you could use the rear sliding to improve your times. if you can get the rear to swing out earlier, you can get your car parallel to the exit sooner and be on the throttle sooner. just a theory tho. that and getting the car sideways causes a bit of decelleration, so you can reduce your braking that way. not recommended unless you're sure your car wont hit a bump and roll tho.

[Kawasaki]

http://wp.circuitclub.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/the-circuit-issue7.pdf

Very useful info in regards to tyres and camber settings (Pg 6). I believe that running more camber would help you amoung other things.