Wheels Magazine Civic Type R review

[yfin]

The latest Wheels Magazine has a road test of the CTR. The Civic Type R does well and wins the test overall (includes manual Golf GTI).

But the performance figures are very dissapointing for the Civic if you compare to Honda's claim of 6.6 for 0-100kph.

The CTR achieved 0-100 in 7.8 seconds and a quarter of 15.5. Rolling 80-120 was also nothing special at 4.8 seconds.

I know that Honda has a job to do in marketing the Civic but this is WAY off the claimed times. These are Accord Euro times - not Type R times.

[gnx1987]

is this the august issue?

[VTECACCORD]

ugly car = ugly times

[aaronng]

The CTR achieved 0-100 in 7.8 seconds and a quarter of 15.5. Rolling 80-120 was also nothing special at 4.8 seconds.

I know that Honda has a job to do in marketing the Civic but this is WAY off the claimed times. These are Accord Euro times - not Type R times.

Accord Euro got 15.8s quarter mile and 80-120 of 5.5s (Nathan Ponchard, 5ºC, dry at Oran Park). The CTR still faster than the Euro. Who was the test driver, what was the track temperature and was it wet or dry? That could explain why the 0-100 time was the same as the Euro.

[PaZzMaN-R]

its not a real type r so those times are not that dissapointing. its also not common for these types of tests to be BS! it could be joe shmo driving the car.... to many variables.

who cares about its straight line times, its not what honda is about and if thats all you care about go drive a holden.

[yfin]

Accord Euro got 15.8s quarter mile and 80-120 of 5.5s (Nathan Ponchard, 5ºC, dry at Oran Park). The CTR still faster than the Euro. Who was the test driver, what was the track temperature and was it wet or dry? That could explain why the 0-100 time was the same as the Euro.

I don't have the article with me now. The VW GTI manual got 0-100 in 7.3 so that gives you an idea of where the CTR sits. I am pretty sure VW claims 7.1 and 6.9 for the DSG so it is not far off. The temp was 16 from memory.


who cares about its straight line times, its not what honda is about and if thats all you care about go drive a holden.

How about you go and drive a Kia if you don't care about straight line times.

This is a Type R and Honda says it does 0-100 in 6.6. This is a credibility issue for Honda. Why claim a time in all the advertising if in the real world it is much slower than that. :thumbdwn:

[bennjamin]

the higher honda times are due to the meters-above-sea-level. (according to the article). A NA motor works harder the higher up you go :) The turbo'd engines were not as adversely affected as the lil honda donk.

[aaronng]

I don't have the article with me now. The VW GTI manual got 0-100 in 7.3 so that gives you an idea of where the CTR sits. The temp was 16 from memory.

Was the GTI the DSG or the manual? If it was the DSG, then that takes away the possibility of driver error, making that 7.3s the best possible time. The CTR's 7.8s could have been marred by driver error. If it was 16ºC, then the Euro at 5ºC also had a slight advantage due to the colder air.

[gnx1987]

the higher honda times are due to the meters-above-sea-level. (according to the article). A NA motor works harder the higher up you go :) The turbo'd engines were not as adversely affected as the lil honda donk.

Yeah sounds like your reading out of the june issue and I slightly recall there being a mention of the location of the testing being somewhere pretty high up.

[PaZzMaN-R]

How about you go and drive a Kia if you don't care about straight line times.

This is a Type R and Honda says it does 0-100 in 6.6. This is a credibility issue for Honda. Why claim a time in all the advertising if in the real world it is much slower than that. :thumbdwn:

please dont direct your frustration with honda at me, i certainly did not publish those time nor did i do the 0-100km/h test.

i dont think i have ever seen a test done by any car magazine that matches that of the claimed time.

once again its not a TYPE R by performance specification, rather by name.... unfortunatly.

[sitta]

Anyway the honda should win the loudnest contest that engine's sound at 8000rpm is so good it sounds like a racing car and turns me on!!!

[yfin]

Was the GTI the DSG or the manual? If it was the DSG, then that takes away the possibility of driver error, making that 7.3s the best possible time. The CTR's 7.8s could have been marred by driver error. If it was 16ºC, then the Euro at 5ºC also had a slight advantage due to the colder air.

It was the manual aaron


please dont direct your frustration with honda at me, i certainly did not publish those time nor did i do the 0-100km/h test.

i dont think i have ever seen a test done by any car magazine that matches that of the claimed time.

once again its not a TYPE R by performance specification, rather by name.... unfortunatly.


I don't agree with what you are saying. I read car magazines every month. Lots of car tests beat or match the times quoted by the manufacturer.


the higher honda times are due to the meters-above-sea-level. (according to the article). A NA motor works harder the higher up you go :) The turbo'd engines were not as adversely affected as the lil honda donk.

Are you you looking at the current issue? The article I was looking at is the latest issue - must have been released in the last few days.

[aaronng]

the higher honda times are due to the meters-above-sea-level. (according to the article). A NA motor works harder the higher up you go :) The turbo'd engines were not as adversely affected as the lil honda donk.

The Euro was tested at the same location, but at 5ºC instead of 15ºC. The Euro got 7.8s. Eventhough it was 10ºC, it's no excuse for a CTR to have the same acceleration time as a heavier car with less power and narrower rubber. :)

[EuroAccord13]

I think it's mainly because most car magazines use the Corravit sensor rather than the normal laser thingy that manufacturers use hence the slower time...

Then again, the test driver might not be launching the car properly..

Happened to the S2000 and I think one of the Toyotas...

[yfin]

Ok, i have the article in front of me - Wheels August 2007. Here are the facts. Temp was lower than I quoted above - 8 degrees.

There is nothing in the article about altitude impacting time Ben.

Times tested with VBOX.

Track: Tooradin Airport
Temp: 8 degrees
Driver: Maurie Piatt

CTR
Speed at indicated 100kph: 92
0-60kph: 3.7
0-80kph: 5.3
0-100kph: 7.8
0-120kph: 10.3
0-140kph: 14.0
0-160kph: -
0-400m: 15.5 @ 148kph

Mini Cooper S
Speed at indicated 100kph: 94

0-60kph: 3.5
0-80kph: 5.2
0-100kph: 7.4
0-120kph: 10.0
0-140kph: 13.7
0-160kph: 18.7
0-400m: 15.4 @ 148kph

Golf GTI
Speed at indicated 100kph: 94

0-60kph: 3.7
0-80kph: 5.1
0-100kph: 7.3
0-120kph: 9.6
0-140kph: 12.8
0-160kph: 16.6
0-400m: 15.2 @ 153kph

[yfin]

Quotes:

"It feels fast, sounds fast and... erm... isn't that fast".

"The figures verify the story. The Civic is well behind both turbos in the 0-100kph VBOX run, even though it launches cleanly enough. In the 80-120kph in gear rolling test it's absolutely hammered. It's at its most competitive over 400m, closing in as that shrieking top end comes into play."

They do love the handling so it is not all bad. And it still wins the test. The focus of my thread is Hondas quoted 6.6.

[ennavoli]

Honda could have quoted 6.6 on a downhill :p

The results did not surprise me though. I also believe they have the largest rims out of all 3 cars? (Heaviest rims) so that might affect the straight line times.

All in all, they are just too heavy to be quick.


Quotes:

"It feels fast, sounds fast and... erm... isn't that fast".

"The figures verify the story. The Civic is well behind both turbos in the 0-100kph VBOX run, even though it launches cleanly enough. In the 80-120kph in gear rolling test it's absolutely hammered. It's at its most competitive over 400m, closing in as that shrieking top end comes into play."

They do love the handling so it is not all bad. And it still wins the test. The focus of my thread is Hondas quoted 6.6.

[UNLS1]

wat was the DC2Rs 0-100 times?

[yfin]

wat was the DC2Rs 0-100 times?

6.9 to 7.1 is generally what I have seen in magazine tests for DC2R. Haven't seen a Honda quote for that vehicle.

[yfin]

What is with the speedo being so far off on these 3 cars?! 92/94/94 @ 100KPH

[ginganggooly]

wat was the DC2Rs 0-100 times?

mid-high 14's stock.

I think i remember reading low 15's in the magazines.

[yfin]

By the way if this is the same Tooradin Airport I know in Victoria - it is very close to Westernport. So that is sea level. I went in a helicopter ride there!

[aaronng]

What is with the speedo being so far off on these 3 cars?! 92/94/94 @ 100KPH

That's because of the tyre size combo that the manufacturer used.

[sitta]

on the m5 there are signs that check your speed and they say i was going 100 when i was going 110 its quite funny actually

[aimre]

told u that car was a nugget

[yfin]

^^ I am sure it is a cracker of a car. I am just not so sure it deserves the Type R badge when a previous generation from the late 1990s can outrun it in a straight line. The Type R in the late 90s was in the 140kw range. In 2007 Honda needs to be way ahead of that to compensate for the weight. And then to advertise it as essentially faster than the DC2R? Well that is something...

[sitta]

it is a true type r! the ride gives you headache!

[Tofu]

it is a true type r! the ride gives you headache!

er...you bought the car because it gives you a headache when you drive it :eek:

very interesting article, so the cat is finally out of the bag...
now we just need people to track their cars and see what they get.

[fasthonda]

I've just bought the Wheels Mag.Just quoting the 0-400m time of 15.5,for quite a heavy car I still think that it did quite well.
I wonder if they used 98 octane?
I'm sure that with 98 petrol and a couple of thousand klms,the CTR should shave a couple of tenths or so of the time.

[aaronng]

^^ I am sure it is a cracker of a car. I am just not so sure it deserves the Type R badge when a previous generation from the late 1990s can outrun it in a straight line. The Type R in the late 90s was in the 140kw range. In 2007 Honda needs to be way ahead of that to compensate for the weight. And then to advertise it as essentially faster than the DC2R? Well that is something...

It's a hot hatch. Honda Japan didn't think it was a track car, so they made the FD2 CTR rather than take the UK CTR like they did previously with the EP3.

[m0nty ITR]

We have to look at it's main competitors. It's been brought out here to combat the GTI, MPS3 and XR5. All three of these cars have been doing really well where as the WRX has steadily been losing sales over the past 3 years.

If I was at Honda Australia I'd choose to bring out the UK CTR too. Less and less people want bonejarring raw rides and want more safety and features.

[UNLS1]

well said monty

that is exactly right! its not like the old true type Rs, but nobody ever asks for cars like that anymore.
Most people want the safety and luxury features! THats just the way that market has gone!
If u want a raw car like that get a lotus lol

[Barge Ass]

No way is it doing 6.6 with 110kw/tonnes vs the DC2R's almost 130kw/tonnes

[350G]

Quotes:

"It feels fast, sounds fast and... erm... isn't that fast".



I like that.... It looks fast too with all the typeR stickers and spaceship interior:p

[350G]

well said monty

that is exactly right! its not like the old true type Rs, but nobody ever asks for cars like that anymore.
Most people want the safety and luxury features! THats just the way that market has gone!
If u want a raw car like that get a lotus lol

This is named a Type R which suppoed to be raw. If you want safety and luxury features, get a Benz or BM.

[bennjamin]

Drive a new CTR with earplugs and sunglasses on and aim in a straight line. It will feel like a accord euro :)

[aaronng]

Drive a new CTR with earplugs and sunglasses on and aim in a straight line. It will feel like a accord euro :)

Without earplugs, it'll sound like my car.

[m0nty ITR]

This is named a Type R which suppoed to be raw. If you want safety and luxury features, get a Benz or BM.

But Type R wouldn't have a market worth investing here in Australia. This is a compromise and a plan to get more young people into Honda.

[Tofu]

that is Honda's marketing strategy, yes we get it, but there will always be people out there that feel the TypeR name has been tainted.

[PaZzMaN-R]

that is Honda's marketing strategy, yes we get it, but there will always be people out there that feel the TypeR name has been tainted.

being the owner of a true type r im one of them. its a sad fact of life but sometimes the things you dont want to change, change the most:(:thumbdwn::honda::thumbdwn:

[yfin]

Look, I can deal with a refined, smooth, luxury R. But I can't deal with a slow R.

[bennjamin]

Without earplugs, it'll sound like my car with out a hecktik DIY intake


Corrected ;)

[aaronng]

Corrected ;)

That's one soft CTR!

[Ronny]

1 Word describes the New CTR

"SLOW"

I would definitely go for the MPS3/GTi Golf with that price.

I hope Honda did learn a lesson for releasing this piece of shxt.

[aaronng]

1 Word describes the New CTR

"SLOW"

I would definitely go for the MPS3/GTi Golf with that price.

I hope Honda did learn a lesson for releasing this piece of shxt.

Did you test drive the CTR?

[Ronny]

Did you test drive the CTR?

Me and my wife test drove it the other day coz my missus is looking for a smaller car and she reckons the new CTR looks good.

Interior and everything are all good, very fancy/modern design (Thumb up in this category). However the power is a bit weak from stand still to 5000rpm, vtec simply kicks in at about 5xxx + rpm and the response is OKAY. Compare to the MPS3 and GTi (I have test driven both cars), this is definitely not my cup of tea. I understand we shouldn't compare N/A car with Turbo but Honda claimed this thing can reach 100km in 6.6secs. I don't see this thing would get any near to low 7's (It could reach 6.6 if I chuck in shitloads of mods). In conclusion, this CTR is sorta similar to the corolla sportivo. I would say there aren't much different between the two in terms of power. I am not here to cause any trouble with the civic Type R owners but for my personal opinion, Honda was a bit exaggerated about this CTR's performance.

:thumbdwn:

[aaronng]

Me and my wife test drove it the other day coz my missus is looking for a smaller car and she reckons the new CTR looks good.

Interior and everything are all good, very fancy/modern design (Thumb up in this category). However the power is a bit weak from stand still to 5000rpm, vtec simply kicks in at about 5xxx + rpm and the response is OKAY. Compare to the MPS3 and GTi (I have test driven both cars), this is definitely not my cup of tea. I understand we shouldn't compare N/A car with Turbo but Honda claimed this thing can reach 100km in 6.6secs. I don't see this thing would get any near to low 7's (It could reach 6.6 if I chuck in shitloads of mods). In conclusion, this CTR is sorta similar to the corolla sportivo. I would say there aren't much different between the two in terms of power. I am not here to cause any trouble with the civic Type R owners but for my personal opinion, Honda was a bit exaggerated about this CTR's performance.

:thumbdwn:

Yeah, Honda really did exaggerate the performance claims. But the issue with the engine not having anything under 5000rpm is similar for all NA engines with an aggressive highcam. Without a variable lift system, it's even worse like with the cammed 4A-GE engines.

I've driven a Sportivo and I don't think the CTR warrants a comparison to it. The Sportivo's suspension is so shitty that you can feel the nose lifting when you are in 2nd gear, 2000rpm and you just use about 1/4 throttle! That was bad.

Having said all that, if I was after outright power for the straight, I'd take an MPS. But if I wanted an all rounder, it'll be a tossup between the CTR and GTI, with the deciding factor being whether my missus will be driving the car (she can't drive stick). Value-wise, CTR > GTI.

[m0nty ITR]

Having said all that, if I was after outright power for the straight, I'd take an MPS. But if I wanted an all rounder, it'll be a tossup between the CTR and GTI, with the deciding factor being whether my missus will be driving the car (she can't drive stick). Value-wise, CTR > GTI.

So that rules anything that isn't GTI out. Am I right?

[sitta]

im the owner of a ctr and i admit ! its is not that fast! its is just exiting though, took my friend along and went vtecing and he was so scared, it sounds hell fast over 5000rpm and feels fast but since i've been driving it for quite sometime i know it is not that fast lol but who needs straight line speed? unless you are going for occasional track day, this car is way fast enough for daily driving and you can still kick most ricer's ass all day

[aaronng]

So that rules anything that isn't GTI out. Am I right?

"whether my missus will be driving the car". :)
She has her own car (Astra) to drive. My Euro is manual, so she doesn't touch it. :thumbsup:

[ATSE]

Just to add, my work colleague just got a Golf GTI with DSG... and it probably has the smoothest gear change out of any car I've driven. I haven't test driven the new CTR yet so I can't compare, but i was very impressed with the Golf. And don't forget, with the Golf, it is heavily detuned from the factory, so adding a programmable ECU onto it (eg. APR) will release a shitload of power from it approx 30 to 40kw in stock form.

[m0nty ITR]

Just to add, my work colleague just got a Golf GTI with DSG... and it probably has the smoothest gear change out of any car I've driven. I haven't test driven the new CTR yet so I can't compare, but i was very impressed with the Golf. And don't forget, with the Golf, it is heavily detuned from the factory, so adding a programmable ECU onto it (eg. APR) will release a shitload of power from it approx 30 to 40kw in stock form.

I used to drive one. The APR reflash gave the GTI 192kW and 350nm @ 1750-5500rpm.

Absolutely insane stuff for $1900.

[SHIFTY]

iv said it before and ill say it again.. this is a type s in my books, not a type r... they should rebadge it type s and bring in the real type r (jdm civic type r)..

***n pommy honda wankers, why do u wona do this to the historic type r name!

[Tofu]

iv said it before and ill say it again.. this is a type s in my books, not a type r... they should rebadge it type s and bring in the real type r (jdm civic type r)..

***n pommy honda wankers, why do u wona do this to the historic type r name!

LOL this car seems to be getting more "heat" (in a negative way) from alot more people, even owners of the FN2, compared to the 2002 Integra Type R...has Honda made a smart "marketing" decision? Just have to wait till the end of year for a 6 month report I guess.

[SHIFTY]

donno but 2 me all the newer type r's are not real type r's...

dc2r, ek9 and the nsx-r are the real type r's 2 me...

The rest are 2 fat and don not follow the type 'r' meaning of being 'raw'.. how can it be 'raw' if it got fancy dash and fancy that and all and big fat wheels ect... it defies the meaning of the type r... it is sad that honda is almost just throwing the sticker on to these cars... it would make so much more sense 2 be badged a type s... and im not saying because type s is shit, as they are nice 'sports' cars... not raw cars which are (basicly from factory) made for racing...

but then again the question should be... with 2days modern car standards for safety and all that... could honda be aloud 2 make another real type r that is raw like the originals ? i personally doubt it!

they can make fast cars like the jap fd2r but is it really a type r or just a fast car...

[T-onedc2]

donno but 2 me all the newer type r's are not real type r's...

dc2r, ek9 and the nsx-r are the real type r's 2 me...

The rest are 2 fat and don not follow the type 'r' meaning of being 'raw'.. how can it be 'raw' if it got fancy dash and fancy that and all and big fat wheels ect... it defies the meaning of the type r... it is sad that honda is almost just throwing the sticker on to these cars... it would make so much more sense 2 be badged a type s... and im not saying because type s is shit, as they are nice 'sports' cars... not raw cars which are (basicly from factory) made for racing...

but then again the question should be... with 2days modern car standards for safety and all that... could honda be aloud 2 make another real type r that is raw like the originals ? i personally doubt it!
Completely agree.
As for safety standards, all they're removing is sound deadening, replacing some parts with lighter (usually stronger) material, and adding reinforcements where necessary, so I guess they just don't think there's a big enough market for the raw cars nowadays.

[aaronng]

Just to add, my work colleague just got a Golf GTI with DSG... and it probably has the smoothest gear change out of any car I've driven. I haven't test driven the new CTR yet so I can't compare, but i was very impressed with the Golf. And don't forget, with the Golf, it is heavily detuned from the factory, so adding a programmable ECU onto it (eg. APR) will release a shitload of power from it approx 30 to 40kw in stock form.

It is not detuned. It is a turbo'd engine with an electronically controlled wastegate. That's why with the ECU reflash, you get much more power. It tells the wastegate to only open up at higher pressure.

[ATSE]

It is still "de-tuned" in my eyes from the factory, as APR would have had to make changes via dyno to create this reflash, as I don't think it would of been as easy as saying "we'll just tell the ecu to open up the wastegate at high pressure". But correction noted and good knowledge aaronng. :)

[GupZ]

The latest Wheels Magazine has a road test of the CTR. The Civic Type R does well and wins the test overall (includes manual Golf GTI).

But the performance figures are very dissapointing for the Civic if you compare to Honda's claim of 6.6 for 0-100kph.

The CTR achieved 0-100 in 7.8 seconds and a quarter of 15.5. Rolling 80-120 was also nothing special at 4.8 seconds.

I know that Honda has a job to do in marketing the Civic but this is WAY off the claimed times. These are Accord Euro times - not Type R times.

Have you ever go to test drive the FN2?..you will know 7.8 seconds 0-100km is not the real case.

[tinkerbell]

Have you ever go to test drive the FN2?..you will know 7.8 seconds 0-100km is not the real case.

remember GupZ - "FN2 - Speed at indicated 100kph: 92"

so when you see 100 on the speedo - you are probably only doing just over 90km/h...

[aaronng]

It is still "de-tuned" in my eyes from the factory, as APR would have had to make changes via dyno to create this reflash, as I don't think it would of been as easy as saying "we'll just tell the ecu to open up the wastegate at high pressure". But correction noted and good knowledge aaronng. :)
Of course, when they increase the boost pressure, more fuel is needed to compensate. That's why they develop it on the dyno. On the dyno, they alter the fuel maps for that higher boost.

[yfin]

Have you ever go to test drive the FN2?..you will know 7.8 seconds 0-100km is not the real case.

What has this got to do with me? I am reporting what a credible magazine in Australia has tested with a VBOX in what is pretty favourable conditions (ie 8 degree temp).

Motor also said the same thing about the lack of pace.

I am sure just like the K24 the FN2 takes a good 10,000 to 15,000kms before it shows its full potential. Take yours to the strip and let us know how you go.

[sodaz]

With only a high revving 147kw motor in a car that weighs almost as much as the standard Euro, I don't see how Honda can ever fulfill the claimed 6.6sec 0-100km/h time. The Mazda 3 MPS makes 190kw and that does 0-100km/h in around 6.4-6.6 secs. The CTR really needs at least a 160kw motor to be strong player in the competitive hot hatch market today.

[SHIFTY]

i reserve my opinion on honda not telling the truth about the 0-100km/h times till i see it done in one with a worn in engine which is ready for such testing... also i hope they did the test once the oil pressure and everything was correct for the cams 2 change over right...

there are alot of things 2 put in 2 consideration....

also these car journo's are not the best drivers around....

[mpd076-chuck]

I think most of us would find it hard to replicate the times the journo's pull when testing. Having been fortunate to be on two road-tests, none of the non-journo's could pull times matching the journo's.

For example, when Motor compared the Type S versus DC5R versus DC2R, non of the car owners could match the times the Motor drivers pulled. The journo's really punish the cars trying to get the best times and they keep at it until they are sure that's as fast as it will go.

Most car journo's are good drivers. Anybody seen the video of Dean Evans driving the Lotus at Bathurst?

Personally 7.8 seems right to me, it's 165kg heavier than a DC5R. Slightly lower gearing and slightly more torque simply cannot make that up.

[aaronng]

also these car journo's are not the best drivers around....
I disagree. They have been working for the magazines for years and they get to fang cars around the track and in the 1/4 mile more often than car enthusiasts. :)

[SHIFTY]

theres a difference between dean evans and other motor journo's... he was a pro race driver... lol

my point was that im sure the ppl they have doing these times in japan (uk in this case) are pro drivers and have been practising with these cars for alot longer and have warn the engine in.. im not saying motor journo's are shit drivers nor am i saying they are race drivers.. just compared 2 the ppl putting down honda's times they would not be as good.. but im not saying that honda did not exaggerate there times..

[aaronng]

my point was that im sure the ppl they have doing these times in japan (uk in this case) are pro drivers and have been practising with these cars for alot longer and have warn the engine in.. im not saying motor journo's are shit drivers nor am i saying they are race drivers.. just compared 2 the ppl putting down honda's times they would not be as good.. but im not saying that honda did not exaggerate there times..
No, I don't think the 6.6 second number is from motoring tests. It's a claimed figure from Honda UK.

[tinkerbell]

i reserve my opinion on honda not telling the truth about the 0-100km/h times till i see it done in one with a worn in engine which is ready for such testing... also i hope they did the test once the oil pressure and everything was correct for the cams 2 change over right...

there are alot of things 2 put in 2 consideration....

also these car journo's are not the best drivers around....

SHIFTY - you might need to google: "power to weight ratio" :thumbsup:

it is nothing to do with journos, worn in engines (LOL!) or oil temperature...

these guys have been testing cars since you were born,

they just cant break the laws of physics...

[tinkerbell]

No, I don't think the 6.6 second number is from motoring tests. It's a claimed figure from Honda UK.

regurgitated faithfully by Honda Australia... :rolleyes:

[SHIFTY]

dude i know what power 2 weight ratio is.. but i just misread the info and thought honda said that they did this times not said they where the estimated times..

no need 2 get all hyped up about it....

[tinkerbell]

dude i know what power 2 weight ratio is.. but i just misread the info and thought honda said that they did this times not said they where the estimated times..

no need 2 get all hyped up about it....

sorry, you just seemed to be naively defending the FN2...

if you did indeed think that Honda said they actually "did this times" then that's OK...

we all make mistakes now and then... :thumbsup:

[chunky]

wweeaaaakkkkk

[Ronny]

With only a high revving 147kw motor in a car that weighs almost as much as the standard Euro, I don't see how Honda can ever fulfill the claimed 6.6sec 0-100km/h time. The Mazda 3 MPS makes 190kw and that does 0-100km/h in around 6.4-6.6 secs. The CTR really needs at least a 160kw motor to be strong player in the competitive hot hatch market today.


Let me Correct you. The Mazda MPS3 does 0-100km in 6.1 secs (Mazda Claim) and the car actually can do faster than 6.1 stock. The reason i said this coz 2 of my friends have bought it recently and brought it down to the track with the digital timer. The best time he's done is 5.7671s (which is abit insane for a stock car).

I personnally don't think any of the honda sport cars could compete with that Mazdas' monster unless the car is heavily modified. However, who cares about straight line, 99% of the time we are on the road with shit loads of traffic...handling and luxury are the most important thing.

Better Stragiht line = More chance to get your License suspended :P

[SHIFTY]

sorry, you just seemed to be naively defending the FN2...

if you did indeed think that Honda said they actually "did this times" then that's OK...

we all make mistakes now and then... :thumbsup:

Lol in no way am i defending this car or honda uk and auss... lol, i personaly believe this car shouldnt be sporting the 'type r' badge... they might aswell option the badge for every car in there range:thumbdwn:

[GupZ]

Let me Correct you. The Mazda MPS3 does 0-100km in 6.1 secs (Mazda Claim) and the car actually can do faster than 6.1 stock. The reason i said this coz 2 of my friends have bought it recently and brought it down to the track with the digital timer. The best time he's done is 5.7671s (which is abit insane for a stock car).

I personnally don't think any of the honda sport cars could compete with that Mazdas' monster unless the car is heavily modified. However, who cares about straight line, 99% of the time we are on the road with shit loads of traffic...handling and luxury are the most important thing.

Better Stragiht line = More chance to get your License suspended :P

Totally agree!....
handling and luxury are the most important thing nowadays.


By the way, honestly, i personally do not think FN2 is that slow (7.8 s from what the review said)....although i am owning a FN2 now, i am not trying to convince you guys on how fast it is. Just did a test with my Gfs GTI DSG in a straight line....no way is the GTI could compare with FN2.

[GupZ]

Lol in no way am i defending this car or honda uk and auss... lol, i personaly believe this car shouldnt be sporting the 'type r' badge... they might aswell option the badge for every car in there range:thumbdwn:


If FN2 should not be sporting the 'type r' badge, then none of our aussie spec type r should. Eg: DC2R :p

[350G]

If FN2 should not be sporting the 'type r' badge, then none of our aussie spec type r should. Eg: DC2R :p
at least dc2r 's shape os CLOSE enough to look like the JDM dc2r. try a front end conversation with yr FN LOL

[aaronng]

at least dc2r 's shape os CLOSE enough to look like the JDM dc2r. try a front end conversation with yr FN LOL

Looking like one doesn't make a car a Type R.

[WhoKnowz]

in terms of handling/luxary vs Straight line performance, its up to personal preference.

if you guys have watched Top Gear(or something like top gear, cant remember what its called), they tested the Mazda 3 MPS, Golf R32 and the BMW 130i. MPS has the quickest laptime. It handles quite well considering the amount of power it has for a FWD. It did beat the Golf R32 which is AWD as well.

I will choose the MPS over the new CTR anyday if i have to pay for anything within that price range. Its bang for your bucks from what i can see.

Thats just my personal opinion.

[GupZ]

Looking like one doesn't make a car a Type R.


LOL... Maybe 350G though that a Accord Euro in Australia = JDM Euro R..LOL

Add a 'type-r' badge besides the Honda logo just cost you $100...LOL

[GupZ]

in terms of handling/luxary vs Straight line performance, its up to personal preference.

if you guys have watched Top Gear(or something like top gear, cant remember what its called), they tested the Mazda 3 MPS, Golf R32 and the BMW 130i. MPS has the quickest laptime. It handles quite well considering the amount of power it has for a FWD. It did beat the Golf R32 which is AWD as well.

I will choose the MPS over the new CTR anyday if i have to pay for anything within that price range. Its bang for your bucks from what i can see.

Thats just my personal opinion.


Totally agree. Its up to personal preference. But do not forget MPS is a turbo whereas type-r is a NA. And for what i have observed in recent years, Mazda's racing car is like a POS in terms of quality. EG: handling.

[Ronny]

Totally agree. Its up to personal preference. But do not forget MPS is a turbo whereas type-r is a NA. And for what i have observed in recent years, Mazda's racing car is like a POS in terms of quality. EG: handling.

Yup, I agree with what you said too.

Mazda Performance Series (MPS) are sort of doing what the Subaru had done in the late 90's and started to build up a very good reputations on their 3's and 6's. More and more people going for the Mazda sports car these days as they've got good handling (not as good as the EVO, Slab me), nice interior (MPS 6 and RX-8 where MPS3 is just OKAY), Power (MPS 3 & 6 are both awesome) and much more.

Where as the new Honda's, I personally don't friggin know what they are doing. eg. the new Accord which looks damn ugly (I should say not looking that good, I apologise if i have offended anyone here, just a personal opinion) compare to the Euro Accord. The new Civic just look like one of those Hyundai Elantra. No surprise with their new generations. Unlike back in 1991/1992 when the civic first released. Everyone was dying for this car. As well as the Integra and Prelude back at that time. NOW.......Sigh!!!!

[jords]

If FN2 should not be sporting the 'type r' badge, then none of our aussie spec type r should. Eg: DC2R :p


Hang on a minute, the DC2R is the only type r that was designed as a raw vehicle for the circuit/street.....this is evident in the weight reduction, re-enforced chassis, double wishbone suspension and lack of sound deadening. So what the front ends are different, there will always be a split decision on what front end looks best and there's only like 8kw difference between a stock JDM and AUSDM.

The DC2R is a highly praised car and is it is well known for being a genuine street car that can be taken to the track to see its full potential.

[Setanta]

The DC2R is a highly praised car and is it is well known for being a genuine street car that can be taken to the track to see its full potential.

I think he means we didn't get the JDM rear suspension setup or the sexier JDM nosecone. We did however, get our motor detuned from JDM spec.

Our DC2R really was the closest we got to a JDM ITR though, our DC5R was a nice beast, but really was just S spec, not R.

[Nepolian]

in terms of handling/luxary vs Straight line performance, its up to personal preference.

if you guys have watched Top Gear(or something like top gear, cant remember what its called), they tested the Mazda 3 MPS, Golf R32 and the BMW 130i. MPS has the quickest laptime. It handles quite well considering the amount of power it has for a FWD. It did beat the Golf R32 which is AWD as well.

I will choose the MPS over the new CTR anyday if i have to pay for anything within that price range. Its bang for your bucks from what i can see.

Thats just my personal opinion.


I have been looking for a "Sports" hatch of late, I have test driven most "Hot" hatches.

From my point of view, I can honestly tell you the R32 was the best overall but just cost too much. MPS 3 was nuts, but I found for a 40k car it felt cheap. It had too much road noise, not very refined.

To my point, I just drove the CTR and I have to say whilst it is under powered it really feels like a complete package, very well refined. The only thing it lacks is about 10 - 20 KW I think, for most people i think it is adequate. Its well built, the finish is great and it is not as bad as the reports are making it.

[Chris_typer]

the finish is great and it is not as bad as the reports are making it.

Think your right, my mate took his FN2 to the track last Friday and ran a 14.1and he recons that wasn't even his best, that was his first try as a warmup. So this article in Wheels may be heavily underestimating the civic's power, needless to say that 'Wheels' is a well respected magazine, this time I think they may have underated the civic just a bit.

[Jaso]

Yah Wheels has been known to get some inconsistent times, not just in this test. They’re fairly objective though. Besides, it’s not the end of the world when the FN2R ran 0-100 in 7.8 in some magazine. Maybe its relative lack of torque could have something to do with it...being a fairly small motor? Could have been the car, low km a range of things. Besides, who buys are car purely on its 0-100 or 1/4 mile time?

For the Civic to win the review against the GTi must have been a rap to the Civic, and they must have liked it quite alot.

[Chris_typer]

Besides, who buys are car purely on its 0-100 or 1/4 mile time?

For the Civic to win the review against the GTi must have been a rap to the Civic, and they must have liked it quite alot.

Well said, apart from the speed of the car I personally loved the new shape, the comfortable seats and the spacious backseats accompanied by all the new technology which is easy to use. Even when TopGear reviewed it late last year when it was released in Europe the guy struggled to find a fault with it and absolutely fell in love with it as most other people including myself have. I'm not trying to wave a flag saying "the civic is the best car in world" because of course that would be ludicrous but it is a quality car and well finished.

[IAMVTEC]

Speed isnt important. The one thing I will praise about FN2 is the variety it brings to Hondas range.

Before this came out the Honda range was as predictable and homogenous as a pakistani election result.

The Civic and the Accord Euro look basically the same and serve same function, most people not into cars cant differentiate between them.

The Accord and Legend look 90% the same from the front.

The CRV and Oddyssey is basically your shopping trolleys with an engine and seats.

Jazz is small car.

s2000 is a disgrace. which other manufacturer would still be selling a 1999 model brand new at dealerships

At least the FN2 has some uniqueness and some pretension of being a sports car.Its a breath of fresh air comapred to Hondas usual tactics

[yfin]

Think your right, my mate took his FN2 to the track last Friday and ran a 14.1and he recons that wasn't even his best, that was his first try as a warmup.

Got a video or at least a slip? I can't see how a vehicle with a power to weight ratio over 9kg per kw can get anywhere close to 14.1. The vehicle would need to be massively under quoted for that to happen. Are you sure your friend didn't say 15.1? Because that is more believable.

By the way the lighter and more powerful JDM 2007 CTR got 14.4 over the quarter by Best Motoring. So the FN2 is way behind that.

[Nepolian]

Gone are the days where people spend odd 40k for a Hard tunes car. Too much competition to do that. End of the day the FN2 has succomb to the reality of overall sales and with it comes compromise. Now it is a more luxurious sports car which has a broader appeal than fanatics. Money talks BS walks:)

[mpd076-chuck]

Think your right, my mate took his FN2 to the track last Friday and ran a 14.1and he recons that wasn't even his best, that was his first try as a warmup.

I call BS on a 14.1 from a stock FN2 until proven otherwise. How can a car that is 165kg heavier than a DC5R, with slightly shorter gearing and marginally more torque be faster?

[fasthonda]

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................................
By the way the lighter and more powerful JDM 2007 CTR got 14.4 over the quarter by Best Motoring. So the FN2 is way behind that.

Imagine if they did bring out the FD2,of the usual competitors,you would need a Subaru WRX or a 3MPS or a VRX to beat it over the 1/4 mile.However, apart from the WRX, the JDM FD2 would have the measure of the others around a track.

[m0nty ITR]

I call BS on a 14.1 from a stock FN2 until proven otherwise. How can a car that is 165kg heavier than a DC5R, with slightly shorter gearing and marginally more torque be faster?

It can't be. I call shenanigans until I've seen a time slip. I had a play with one tonight on the way home and it's slower than a wet Wednesday compared to the DC5R.

[ginganggooly]

Think your right, my mate took his FN2 to the track last Friday and ran a 14.1and he recons that wasn't even his best, that was his first try as a warmup. .


I think your mate is having a lend of you... 15.1 maybe, 14.1- mmkay.

[xtercii]

0 - 350m, 14.1 sec

[Ronny]

Think your right, my mate took his FN2 to the track last Friday and ran a 14.1and he recons that wasn't even his best, that was his first try as a warmup. So this article in Wheels may be heavily underestimating the civic's power, needless to say that 'Wheels' is a well respected magazine, this time I think they may have underated the civic just a bit.


14.1 s on a stock FN2, What a JOKE!!!

Even a bloody turbo car can't do a low 14s consistently. If he really did a 14.1 on a stock FN2, I WILL SWALLOW and EAT the whole car. Please think before you say some BS like this. He could have done a 14.1 QUARTER METERS TIME not MILES

[aaronng]

14.1 s on a stock FN2, What a JOKE!!!

Even a bloody turbo car can't do a low 14s consistently. If he really did a 14.1 on a stock FN2, I WILL SWALLOW and EAT the whole car. Please think before you say some BS like this. He could have done a 14.1 QUARTER METERS TIME not MILES

EK4 does 14.7. So 14.1 is possible.

[ginganggooly]

EK4 does 14.7. So 14.1 is possible.

Based on factory figures... the EK4 has a better P:W than the FN2 or whatever the code is.
1050:118 vs 1345:148

IIRC, ZCO's car had a dd designed intake on it, we were getting very healthy gains with these intakes during testing.

[Chris_typer]

14.1 s on a stock FN2, What a JOKE!!!

Even a bloody turbo car can't do a low 14s consistently. If he really did a 14.1 on a stock FN2, I WILL SWALLOW and EAT the whole car. Please think before you say some BS like this. He could have done a 14.1 QUARTER METERS TIME not MILES

Well seeing as Honda was able to run a 6.6 0-100km, it actually is possible to run a 14.1 quarter mile. I'm not trying to talk my car up because at the end of the day the point of the thread was to try to figure out how Honda and Wheels got two completely different results and I was simply putting forward results in which one of my mates got on Friday night.

[Nepolian]

Well seeing as Honda was able to run a 6.6 0-100km, it actually is possible to run a 14.1 quarter mile. I'm not trying to talk my car up because at the end of the day the point of the thread was to try to figure out how Honda and Wheels got two completely different results and I was simply putting forward results in which one of my mates got on Friday night.

A brief description of how the times was obtained may get the doubters off ya back (for a little while). There are alot of reasons why the FN2 can or cannot get those times.

As for the quoted times from manufacturers, I understand that they sometime do it in a car with a Jap driver who would not weigh more than 60 kgs and 10lts of fuel and hundreds of runs are done to achieve the stated times.

Given that it may be possible to achieve the times on a perfect run. However give the car a chance to get around and prove its worth in the eyes of the so called true "Type R" believers:)

[yfin]

Can anyone name one other stock car in the world that has a power to weight ratio of 9.15kg per kw or worse and has magazine tested times of 14.1 sec for the quarter.

Gear ratios and an efficient drivetrain only take you so far. The only way this can happen is if Honda has underquoted the power figure.

[ginganggooly]

Well seeing as Honda was able to run a 6.6 0-100km, it actually is possible to run a 14.1 quarter mile.

Easiest way to end the debate is to go out to WSID and pull a 14.1 in your car, post up a timeslip and everyone will be quiet; there'll be humble pie for alot of people here, myself included.

[Chris_typer]

Easiest way to end the debate is to go out to WSID and pull a 14.1 in your car, post up a timeslip and everyone will be quiet; there'll be humble pie for alot of people here, myself included.

Yes, well when I get the time I will be heading over to track and giving it a run.

[m0nty ITR]

Easiest way to end the debate is to go out to WSID and pull a 14.1 in your car, post up a timeslip and everyone will be quiet; there'll be humble pie for alot of people here, myself included.

Buyers remorse. Give him a break. :p

[Chris_typer]

Here is some results from the UK. Got a 6.8 0-100 and ran a 15.3 1/4mile

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Candelori/hatchback_tracktimes.jpg

[m0nty ITR]

The Renault had a 0-60 of 6.2 and a 14.9 1/4. Proof that the CTR will never run a 14.1 1/4 in stock trim. The Renault had the most torque and power of the bunch. Kerb weights on all cars are very close.

[Chris_typer]

Yeah I actually think my mate is FOS..but then again it just goes to show that the 'Wheels' stats weren't that accurate.

[quangsta]

could it be that honda estimated it with the times down a sticky strip? whilst the motor magazines guys did it on your average country road? even then i guess the different shouldnt be that bad..

[tinkerbell]

Here is some results from the UK. Got a 6.8 0-100 and ran a 15.3 1/4mile


the UK CTR is only 1276kg,

not the 1350+kg the lard arse aussie car is...

[tinkerbell]

could it be that honda estimated it

by randomly picking a good 0-100 number and subtracting .7 seconds from it???

honda = full of shit. :thumbdwn:

[as001]

the UK CTR is only 1276kg,

not the 1350+kg the lard arse aussie car is...

Does anyone know why there is such a massive weight diff on the Aus model compared to the UK model? this may explain the stat's diff

[tinkerbell]

we get soemthing similar to what is known as the "GT Spec" version...

[tinkerbell]

Extra on GT:

Dual curtain airbags
Cruise control
Power folding door mirrors
Automatic headlights with dusk sensors
Front foglights
Dual zone climate control air-conditioning
Rain sensing wipers
Refrigerated and lockable glovebox

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=261

http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/Honda.com.au/Home/Showroom/Civic+Type+R/Specifications/

yes, we even get the "climate controled glove box"

ROTFL...

[yfin]

Here is some results from the UK. Got a 6.8 0-100 and ran a 15.3 1/4mile



Where does that article say 0-100 in 6.8 seconds?

It says 0-60mph which is 96kph.

[yfin]

could it be that honda estimated it with the times down a sticky strip? whilst the motor magazines guys did it on your average country road? even then i guess the different shouldnt be that bad..

The magazine was wheels and as already stated it was at the Tooradin airport strip.

[fasthonda]

Quote:
Extra on GT:

Dual curtain airbags
Cruise control
Power folding door mirrors
Automatic headlights with dusk sensors
Front foglights
Dual zone climate control air-conditioning
Rain sensing wipers
Refrigerated and lockable glovebox, and not to mention the miscellaneous piece of lead weight hidden somewhere in the car's structure :p

[TECBOY]

hondas are shit its funny to see u all making excuses and talking bout variables and pretending u dont care bout straight line punch
best value type r is dc2 hands down all the others are fat overrated slugs
there i said it
:D

[m0nty ITR]

hondas are shit its funny to see u all making excuses and talking bout variables and pretending u dont care bout straight line punch
best value type r is dc2 hands down all the others are fat overrated slugs
there i said it
:D

Nice trolling. So an EK9 or DC5R is a POS? Face facts, DC2s are great cars but are getting long in the tooth. They're hardly the be all and end all of fast Hondas.

[Chris_typer]

hondas are shit its funny to see u all making excuses and talking bout variables and pretending u dont care bout straight line punch
best value type r is dc2 hands down all the others are fat overrated slugs
there i said it
:D

Yeah alright buddy...come race my mates DC5R and see whats more value for money. Chop your DC2 in about 2 seconds.

[yfin]

Yeah alright buddy...come race my mates DC5R and see whats more value for money. Chop your DC2 in about 2 seconds.

I think he is talking about stock cars. You could make the FN2 very fast as well with mods and reflash.

[Chris_typer]

I think he is talking about stock cars. You could make the FN2 very fast as well with mods and reflash.

Yeah i know just dont have enough money atm...in a few months i will be doing mods