TODA headers to CL9

[TODA AU]

Hi guys,

We finally were able to fit a set of our headers to a near stock CL9
The only modifiction to the car was the fitment of a MUGEN Airbox.
The factory exhaust was still fitted.
Transmission - Auto.

The best of the before runs delivered 102.2kw
We then fitted the TODA CL7 header with stainless steel metal catalyst fitted into the supplied test pipe.
The best of the after runs delivered 112.4kw
With headers alone, retaining the factory cat back system.
We saw a gain of 10.2kw.
Further the improvement was accross the rev range.
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6348&d=1186379864
Just though I'd post this up as a few people have been asking.
Cheers

Adrian

[E-Gene]

Awesome, that's pretty close to my setup with the Mugen airbox. Nice to see the improvement over the entire range and not just at the top.

[EuroAccord13]

Good gains!

MUGEN88's retuned Euro with the TODA headers made very good gains as well!

[itr025]

Nice gains... I especially like the torque gains in the low end. The area I think needs the most improvement.

[aaronng]

The Toda headers are great in real life. Compared to my stock Euro, the car with the Toda pulls in 3rd gear like my car pulls in 2nd gear.

[BusterSonic12]

wow~!! and it's only auto!

[kitbkk]

tempting!!:thumbsup:
im still debating whether i should sell my ebay knock off header and rt cat and get the toda header. will the performance wise improve that heaps?

[stephen8512]

tempting!!:thumbsup:
im still debating whether i should sell my ebay knock off header and rt cat and get the toda header. will the performance wise improve that heaps?

i reckon with ur car from now on kit, u have to go quality. cuz so far u got
1) genuine kenstyle full kit
2) 19" rims (forgot what brand but i know u paid a LOT for them)
3) air-runner air suspension system (not cheap either)
4) fujitsubo exhaust (again, quality JDM part)

add a toda header and ur car will be the crem-de-la-crem of the euros in australia. or better yet u can buy my maxims hehehehe ^^

but yes, if u can afford it, get something good...not cheap shit.

[aaronng]

Hmm, if you have heavy rims/tyres and you plan to go VIP, there isn't much point chasing for performance as the money can be put towards nicer bling. Unless you already have everything else, that is.

[tron07]

How much it cost? 10kw gain with the headers alone, its quite good.

[Atjo]

tempting!!:thumbsup:
im still debating whether i should sell my ebay knock off header and rt cat and get the toda header. will the performance wise improve that heaps?
Spend your money on widebody & sound system :p

[yfin]

How much it cost? 10kw gain with the headers alone, its quite good.

plus what sounds like a high flow cat convertor

[E-Gene]

Only about a week more before I get mine. Can't wait!

[mr747]

how much are these??

[mugen88]

tempting!!:thumbsup:
im still debating whether i should sell my ebay knock off header and rt cat and get the toda header. will the performance wise improve that heaps?

This gain is consistant with my Dyno results.

Very good designed headers and worth the dollars but depends what your chasing. Works best with a high flow cat like metal cat. Note that the Toda's are made for a CL7 and you cant use them with your stock CL9 cat set up.

Kit, spend your money on other parts as you will not get the true performance from the Toda's with your curent set up as Aaron pointed out.

[kitbkk]

true that. :thumbsup:
ill better save up for audio system instead.
is the header around 1400-1600? if im not mistaken when i heard how much it was last time.

[Cranial]

From what I remember reading some posts long ago, changing the flywheel/clutch/final drive does more for performance than IHE if I am not mistaken... Could it really still be true that IHE would be less effective in acceleration than the tranmission/driveline upgrades, considering the decent power gain shown here?

[itr025]

The gains are for the headers in combination with the Mugen intake. Anyone know what the gains are with just the headers (everything else stock)? I'm not really interested in power figures, just lower end torque improvements.

[aaronng]

From what I remember reading some posts long ago, changing the flywheel/clutch/final drive does more for performance than IHE if I am not mistaken... Could it really still be true that IHE would be less effective in acceleration than the tranmission/driveline upgrades, considering the decent power gain shown here?

Flywheel and final drive will improve acceleration at low and middle RPM. At the top end RPM, it'll be similar to stock. But when you add low, middle and top end RPM up, it's overall better accelerating than stock.

But of course, the usual route is I/H/E/ECU and then go for clutch/flywheel and optionally, the final drive. Labour for installing the clutch, flywheel and opening up the box to install the final drive is expensive.

[aaronng]

true that. :thumbsup:
ill better save up for audio system instead.
is the header around 1400-1600? if im not mistaken when i heard how much it was last time.

Was about 1400-1500 during the group buy. Now it should be 1600+.

[mr747]

Was about 1400-1500 during the group buy. Now it should be 1600+.that much?
pretty expensive just for a header

[Atjo]

that much?
pretty expensive just for a header
MAXIM header is more expensive i think, $2000++

[mr747]

MAXIM header is more expensive i think, $2000++what a rip for what 10kw for an extra 2000 you can bolt on a turbo

[Cranial]

Thanks Aaron. The reason I ask is that according to TODA_AU, in this thread http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12532&highlight=flywheel, he says:

Fwiw: I always reccomend flywheel, clutch & final drive sets over intake & exhaust because if you put the two cars next to each other.
The stock looking & sounding one, with only the flywheel, clutch & final drive;will chop the noisy bucket (Intake, header, exhaust only) every time...
It will do so, quickly, quietly and by a considerable margin..

Considerable margin - is he right here? And if he is, what does he mean by considerable? I'm asking because I am planning to do some similar modifications.

[Pumped]

lol 4g for a turbo?

might look nice, won't do much

[aaronng]

that much?
pretty expensive just for a header

It's not "just" a header. :)

[aaronng]

Thanks Aaron. The reason I ask is that according to TODA_AU, in this thread http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12532&highlight=flywheel, he says:
.

Considerable margin - is he right here? And if he is, what does he mean by considerable? I'm asking because I am planning to do some similar modifications.

If you have a big cash reserve at the moment, then go clutch, flywheel and final drive. But for most of us, even finding $1000 to put into the car is a big ask. That's why we do I/H/E first. You can do each one at a time. If you did clutch, flywheel and final drive, it would be best to do all 3 at the same time to minimise on labour. If you have the finances to do all 3 at once, then go for that.

And yes, the flywheel and final drive will transform your car quite a bit. :)

[Cranial]

Cool.

I don't have big cash reserves, but ~$2000 just for a Maxim/Toda header is not cheap either in anyone's language!
I've got all the parts already, just waiting for time for installation (DC5R LSD, Exedy clutch, custom lightweight flywheel, J's Racing 5.1 Final Gear).

Just wondering if anyone else has done the final drive...?

[aaronng]

Cool.

I don't have big cash reserves, but ~$2000 just for a Maxim/Toda header is not cheap either in anyone's language!
I've got all the parts already, just waiting for time for installation (DC5R LSD, Exedy clutch, custom lightweight flywheel, J's Racing 5.1 Final Gear).

Just wondering if anyone else has done the final drive...?
Is the J's racing 5.1 final ratio for the k20a or for the k24a?

[Cranial]

It's for the k20a. My mechanic says it will fit the k24a gearbox, as he's opened up one before and done some modifications to it using DC5R (k20a) parts. He's very cluey so I trust him.

[aaronng]

It's for the k20a. My mechanic says it will fit the k24a gearbox, as he's opened up one before and done some modifications to it using DC5R (k20a) parts. He's very cluey so I trust him.

Ok, because I know someone who got a k20a final drive from the DC5R and it wouldn't fit into the K24a box.

[Cranial]

We'll see what happens when I get it all done. Hope it'll fit. Will post thoughts once its done (within the next few weeks).

[aaronng]

We'll see what happens when I get it all done. Hope it'll fit. Will post thoughts once its done (within the next few weeks).

I'll also be interested in the cost of installing your parts as well. I want to get an LSD installed.

[TODA AU]

how much are these??

Rec retail price is $1685
OZHonda member's price is $1500 - delivered
The G/B (just past) price was $1285 - delivered

Strangley only 2 Euro owners jumped on that price.
Just out of interest, was it not well know about the G/B or was there just little interest?
Let me know, as we could probably sort something out for just the Euro guys.
Cheers

Adrian

[aaronng]

Rec retail price is $1685
OZHonda member's price is $1500 - delivered
The G/B (just past) price was $1285 - delivered

Strangley only 2 Euro owners jumped on that price.
Just out of interest, was it not well know about the G/B or was there just little interest?
Let me know, as we could probably sort something out for just the Euro guys.
Cheers

Adrian

I would have bought one as well but funds are tight at the moment. :)

[adammet04]

i didnt know about the G/B..

traders almost need to create mailing lists for people to subscribe to !!..

[tron07]

1.5k for headers... man thats expensive, better keep my money for audio.

[aaronng]

1.5k for headers... man thats expensive, better keep my money for audio.

Compared to the $300-400 ebay SS DC Sports copy headers, I'd seriously bow down to the Toda headers. No comparison.

[kitbkk]

I didnt know about the group buy either.

[aaronng]

It was under the Toda trader section.

[350G]

Hmm, if you have heavy rims/tyres and you plan to go VIP, there isn't much point chasing for performance as the money can be put towards nicer bling. Unless you already have everything else, that is.

agree

[TODA AU]

I didnt know about the group buy either.

How many of you guys didn't know?
If there are enough numbers, we could do it again.
(Just for the Euro guys)

[sodaz]

That's the dyno from my car btw. :)

Here are my impressions of the header:

The headers are amazing in terms of build quality (the welds are a work of art) and the power gain is very noticeable. It improves throttle response down low and the car pulls all the way to redline with no dip in power. The engine also revs freer and faster. The car also seems to start up easier than before for some reason (better airflow?). The engine sound after 3000rpm is also a lot more aggressive than stock and you can feel a kick at around 6000rpm (something I didn't feel before).

Weight: Approx 50% lighter than stock.

The downside is that there's a hisssssing noise even with very light throttle. I'll have it checked soon for leaks but I think it's a property of the headers. The hissing sound (sounds like i have a nitrous system) can be a bit distracting/annoying imo - esp in start stop traffic. I wonder if there's a way to mute the hissing sounds. :confused:

Last but not least, Adrian from Toda's a very nice guy and they did a great job installing the headers. Thanks mate! :thumbsup:

For those who are curious, the Mugen intake (got it second hand recently) is very similar to the Comptech icebox but with a bit more power (butt dyno), better response and better intake sound.

Here's some pics of the install:

Headers and High Flow Cat (The cat is welded to the Toda test pipe):

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/betty0blue/headersandcat.jpg

Flex joint close up:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/betty0blue/FlexJoint.jpg

Installed headers (2nd sensor had to be extended for it to fit):

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/betty0blue/installed.jpg

[aaronng]

The downside is that there's a hisssssing noise even with very light throttle. I'll have it checked soon for leaks but I think it's a property of the headers. The hissing sound (sounds like i have a nitrous system) can be a bit distracting/annoying imo - esp in start stop traffic. I wonder if there's a way to mute the hissing sounds. :confused:


The hissing is typical of race headers. It sounds nice to me.

[mugen88]

Well done nice, shinny and new.

Now you need a aftermarket ECU for better gains.

Wheres Hondata when u need it?

[sodaz]

Well done nice, shinny and new.

Now you need a aftermarket ECU for better gains.

Wheres Hondata when u need it?

Definitely, an ECU reflash will magnify the gains for sure. I'm thinking of installing the Jtune exhaust - when they eventually release it that is. I don't think they can build a header better than this though.

By the way, do you know approx how much power a manual euro produces at the wheels on a dyno dynamics dyno? I know the auto euro is a few KW down but I had to get it cause my misses hates driving stick.

[sodaz]

The hissing is typical of race headers. It sounds nice to me.

It sounds good when you're driving in a spirited manner but in start stop traffic it sounds a bit weird imo.

[Jegi#5]

Hi Sodaz, looks great mate, are you in NSW??? Because if so I was wondering where you sourced your TODA headers from? You mention Adrian from Toda did the install, I didn't realise there was a TODA specific outlet here.

Edit: Sorry just noticed the details in TODA_AU's post.

[E-Gene]

By the way, do you know approx how much power a manual euro produces at the wheels on a dyno dynamics dyno? I know the auto euro is a few KW down but I had to get it cause my misses hates driving stick.

Well, mine pulled 112.6kw on Dyno Dynamics when my car had 3000kms on it with the current mods.

[sodaz]

Well, mine pulled 112.6kw on Dyno Dynamics when my car had 3000kms on it with the current mods.

Hmm...my guess is that the manual makes around 105kw atw and the auto makes around 95kw atw stock.

[350G]

I'll also be interested in the cost of installing your parts as well. I want to get an LSD installed.

install cost from $250-300 for flywheel and clutch and LSD will cost extra. K20A final drive will fit in K24A but has some issues after a while.

[joecris]

But for most of us, even finding $1000 to put into the car is a big ask. That's why we do I/H/E first. You can do each one at a time.

What is I/H/E? I'm a newbie to tuning and not mechanically inclined, but I would appreciate suggestions on what to consider and how much to spend if I wanted my 04 Euro to sound really good. What's involved? Does it mean simply replacing the mufflers to something like Fujitsubo?

Also, from the discussion around headers, I think I'll give this a miss for a 10kw gain.

Thanks.

[E-Gene]

What is I/H/E? I'm a newbie to tuning and not mechanically inclined, but I would appreciate suggestions on what to consider and how much to spend if I wanted my 04 Euro to sound really good. What's involved? Does it mean simply replacing the mufflers to something like Fujitsubo?
Thanks.

Intake/Headers/Exhaust

[BiLL|z0r]

Hmm...my guess is that the manual makes around 105kw atw and the auto makes around 95kw atw stock.

My stock auto made 111.8kw atw on a dyno dynamics in summer. It was certainly the highest auto stock figure I've seen but all other cars on the day did normal figures that matched the mods so I don't believe the dyno was "off".
I still think the auto is under rated. It's no track demon but to most speeds on normal roads they do pretty good.

[aaronng]

My stock auto made 111.8kw atw on a dyno dynamics in summer. It was certainly the highest auto stock figure I've seen but all other cars on the day did normal figures that matched the mods so I don't believe the dyno was "off".
I still think the auto is under rated. It's no track demon but to most speeds on normal roads they do pretty good.

Were there any stock DC5Rs or S2000s on that dyno day as well? That would give us a good relative indication of how underrated the auto is.

[aaronng]

What is I/H/E? I'm a newbie to tuning and not mechanically inclined, but I would appreciate suggestions on what to consider and how much to spend if I wanted my 04 Euro to sound really good. What's involved? Does it mean simply replacing the mufflers to something like Fujitsubo?

Also, from the discussion around headers, I think I'll give this a miss for a 10kw gain.

Thanks.

If you want sound, you can have it loud all the time or loud only when you apply full throttle. If you want it loud all the time, change the exhaust (cat back would be nicest). If you want it loud only at full throttle, go CAI or SRI.

BTW, it is not about peak power gains. If you look at the dyno, it's definite gains throughout the RPM range. This is better than what a Hondata reflash gives you!

[tron07]

why would you want noise without power?? rice....

[BiLL|z0r]

Were there any stock DC5Rs or S2000s on that dyno day as well? That would give us a good relative indication of how underrated the auto is.

There was at least S2000 anjd a couple DC5R's but can't remember the figures. They'll be in the Past events QLD Dyno day thread. I'll have a look when I get a sec.
On the thread side, will the toda's fit an auto as I recall Hondata needed a slight change for their headers on an auto (hence more delay)?

[aaronng]

There was at least S2000 anjd a couple DC5R's but can't remember the figures. They'll be in the Past events QLD Dyno day thread. I'll have a look when I get a sec.
On the thread side, will the toda's fit an auto as I recall Hondata needed a slight change for their headers on an auto (hence more delay)?

The JTune headers were custom made with custom flange locations, cat length and exhaust length (hence their headers being not compatible with aftermarket or stock systems).

The other aftermarket headers from the US fit both manual and auto, so I don't think the Toda will have fitment issues with the auto. The difference with the auto is an additional vibration damper located somewhere around the subframe.

[sodaz]

My stock auto made 111.8kw atw on a dyno dynamics in summer. It was certainly the highest auto stock figure I've seen but all other cars on the day did normal figures that matched the mods so I don't believe the dyno was "off".
I still think the auto is under rated. It's no track demon but to most speeds on normal roads they do pretty good.

I've driven both the auto and manual Euro and in stock form the manual is definitely faster than the auto. The manual loses less power & torque through the drive train and has better gearing.

What gear did you use for the dyno btw?

[sodaz]

On the thread side, will the toda's fit an auto as I recall Hondata needed a slight change for their headers on an auto (hence more delay)?

The headers will fit the auto but you will need either a custom cat or Euro R cat for it to fit. One of the sensors will also need to be extended. The anti vibration damper will need to be removed during installation.

One thing to note is that you won't be able to install a lower tie bar with these headers - the flanges will be in the way.

[aaronng]

The headers will fit the auto but you will need either a custom cat or Euro R cat for it to fit. One of the sensors will also need to be extended. The anti vibration damper will need to be removed during installation.

One thing to note is that you won't be able to install a lower tie bar with these headers - the flanges will be in the way.

Lower arm bar you mean? Will the Cusco Type 2 fit instead?

[sodaz]

Lower arm bar you mean? Will the Cusco Type 2 fit instead?

Both the Cusco type 1 and 2 won't fit because of the front bar. Look at this pic and you'll see that the flanges are in the way. I'm thinking of getting this lower tie bar because the front section is moved back a bit:

http://www.heeltoeauto.com/product.php?productid=1704

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/betty0blue/installed.jpg

[aaronng]

Ahh, I see. That is a shame... :(

[EuroAccord13]

I think Mugen88 had his ground down abit to fit the Type 1.... But Type 2 won't fit for sure...

[adammet04]

My stock auto made 111.8kw atw on a dyno dynamics in summer. It was certainly the highest auto stock figure I've seen but all other cars on the day did normal figures that matched the mods so I don't believe the dyno was "off".
I still think the auto is under rated. It's no track demon but to most speeds on normal roads they do pretty good.

here here !!

[Pumped]

Stock for stock i chopped an auto pretty hard

[mugen88]

Yep I have Cusco Type 1 LAB on my euro.

Had to shimmy the flange a little but its all good with plenty of clearance, see images.

Tried the type 2 and it was touching the cat as well. It needed a bit of work to make it fit and it could be done withy time.

No clearance issues as you can see:
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/860/img8888xq0.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6131/img8890bm1.jpg

[BiLL|z0r]

I've driven both the auto and manual Euro and in stock form the manual is definitely faster than the auto. The manual loses less power & torque through the drive train and has better gearing.

What gear did you use for the dyno btw?

It was done in 4th gear, same as the manuals done on the day. Chris had his dyno'ed as well straight after (or before, can't recall) me.

[aaronng]

It was done in 4th gear, same as the manuals done on the day. Chris had his dyno'ed as well straight after (or before, can't recall) me.

Should have done it in 3rd gear because that is closest to 1.000:1.

[BusterSonic12]

It was done in 4th gear, same as the manuals done on the day. Chris had his dyno'ed as well straight after (or before, can't recall) me.

what mod u got when u did the dyno?? was it at is motor racing? what was the figure again?

[sodaz]

Yep I have Cusco Type 1 LAB on my euro.

Had to shimmy the flange a little but its all good with plenty of clearance, see images.

Tried the type 2 and it was touching the cat as well. It needed a bit of work to make it fit and it could be done withy time.

No clearance issues as you can see:



Good stuff mate. Thanks for the pics. :thumbsup:

[BiLL|z0r]

what mod u got when u did the dyno?? was it at is motor racing? what was the figure again?

No mods bah a K&N panel filter so basically stock. Even the resonator was still installed then. It was 111.8kw atw.


Should have done it in 3rd gear because that is closest to 1.000:1.

The staff did it so I had no say in the matter.

[E-Gene]

My TODA headers and metal cat arrived late last week (after 1 1/2 months) as I ordered them during the group buy. I must say that the quality is excellent, very nice welds and just looks awesome.

Arranged to have them installed at Revzone in Nunawading today so I went this morning expecting it to be a straight bolt-on with some slight modification to the hanger (as told by Adrian @ TODA). But it didn't go as smoothly as expected.

The first thing that they noticed was that the cat supplied was a little too short and that gaskets weren't supplied either. The cat also didn't the O2 holes on the correct side. So in the end, the guys at Revzone had to weld an extra flange to the headers and cut the cat to reposition the holes and flange.

So what was meant to be a straight bolt on turned out to be a 3 over hour ordeal. But seriously the guys at Revzone were excellent.

But I must say that the product is awesome, my butt dyno could feel the car being a lot more responsive and there's a little more power on the low down. The exhaust sounds a little meaner as well.

What upsetted me about the whole thing was that I was told it was going to be a pretty staright forward install by Adrian but I'm not sure that's what I got in the end. Paid good dosh for that too.

[yfin]

^^ that is dissapointing - have you asked Toda about it? Maybe they sent you the wrong metal cat by mistake? And what did Revzone do in terms of the additional time - were you charged for that?

[E-Gene]

^^ that is dissapointing - have you asked Toda about it? Maybe they sent you the wrong metal cat by mistake? And what did Revzone do in terms of the additional time - were you charged for that?

Yup, of course I was charged for it. It was suppose to be cheaper to get them to install it cos I think TODA made a deal with them. But I was already there and my car was already on the hoist and the headers were already on. Too must hassle to wait for Adrian to return our call to confirm if it was the right cat...blah blah blah...oh well...

[EUR003act]

E-Gene youll have to keep me updated, im purchasing the TODA headers soon, so hopefully theyve sorted it out! i must say, they do take abit of time to respond... i asked them for an invoice 3weeks ago so i can pay them! but i still havent recieved anything :(

[E-Gene]

Well, I'm still waiting on Adrian to respond from Toda about this matter especially seeing that I've ended up paying more for the installation then I should have.

Call Adrian direct, you may get a faster response that way.

[TODA AU]

Sorry about the delay responing to this one, I've just returned from Brisbane & was unable to be easily contacted when away.

I've spoken to E-Gene regarding this & am still trying to contact RevZone for their take on the matter.
Though I must admit, I am at a loss as to why they felt the need to cut & weld the header?
The headers supplied to E-Gene were identical to those fitted to sodaz CL9
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/betty0blue/headersandcat.jpg
The cat is fitted to the supplied test pipe. This is done in a jig so the lengths & sensor hole orientation remains as originally supplied.
This permits the use of any Japanese CL7 aftermarket exhaust system.
(Eg: Fujitsubo - as fitted to E-Gene's CL9)
The difference between these headers & the OEM CL9 headers is as follows:
The hanger, as mentioned previously...
The leading 02 sensor is on opposite side & wires need to be lengthend.
(explained previously in this thread)
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72029&page=4
The rear sensor fits without issue & is located on the same side as original CL9.

This can also be seen here:
http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/jp/product/ex_mani/cl7-3.jpg
Above is CL7 with std cat fitted to Toda header.
Note: the 02 sensores are on the same side.
The CL9 leading sensor located on the opposite side to CL7 hence the wiring needs to be extended.
http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/jp/product/ex_mani/cl7-4.jpg
As fitted to CL7 for race use.
We fit a metal catalyst to this test pipe for road use as the std CL9 catalyst cannot be used with the toda CL7 header.

Hindsight being 20/20, in future we'll rotate the front section 180deg so no wiring extension will be required when these are fitted to a CL9.

Regarding the length being too short,
Without fitting the product ourselves & not having any official feedback from RevZone, it's difficult to determine why there was an issue when the product came from the same jig that produced the header fitted to sodaz car.
As such I will refrain from commenting on this at this time.

Hope that clears up any percieved problems.

[E-Gene]

Well, I do hope that we can get to the bottom of this matter cos I do believe that the TODA product is a great product (love the feel of it on my Euro). Revzone did also help me rotate the front section so that they didn't have to extend any wiring.

Well, unfortunately for me, I'm the victim here. I bought the products believing that they are a perfect fit for the car, I went to the preferred installer and you know the rest of the story...the only problem is that I ended up paying over $100 extra then I needed to.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x244/e-gene/EGE_5110Small.jpg
What came in the box from Toda

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x244/e-gene/EGE_5214Small.jpg
The whole system. Revzone rewelded the cat to have the O2 sensors on the respective sides

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x244/e-gene/EGE_5216Small.jpg
The cat was about an inch off from the headers. New SS flange welded to headers extend it.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x244/e-gene/EGE_5221Small.jpg
Better view of the shortfall.

[aaronng]

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x244/e-gene/EGE_5216Small.jpg

Looks like Revzone made a boo-boo. That part that they rewelded to rotate the sensor hole 180º is shorter than in the first pic of the pipe in the box.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x244/e-gene/EGE_5110Small.jpg

[TODA AU]

Looks like Revzone made a boo-boo. That part that they rewelded to rotate the sensor hole 180º is shorter than in the first pic of the pipe in the box.
Easy, I think that call is a bit harsh considering.

Having now spoken RevZone & E-Gene
I can shed some light on what transpired.
It seems clear that the headers arrived without the donut gasket required between the header & the catalyst.
This critical piece was somehow lost in transit.
Together with myself being difficult to contact at the time,
And the customer having his car on the hoist & basically in pieces, a decision was made to alter the end of the header & make it work.
Had I been contactable, perhaps things would have worked out differently.
In any case, the donut gasket is critical in making the length together with the female flange attached to the leading edge of the test pipe / cat.
Without this gasket, there would obviously be a short fall in length.
So everyone is aware, this gasket is the same as used on the local S2000 & JDM DC2 Type R, EK9 Type R & CL7 Euro R.
It is available through the local Honda dealer network, but you need to ask for the right part. Mentioning a Euro won’t help.
The Honda part number is 18229-PCX-003

Hope that helps,
Cheers

Adrian

[aaronng]

Easy, I think that call is a bit harsh considering.

My apologies, my eyes must have been playing tricks on me. I thought the lengths were different from the pics.

[Mattski_VTIR]

The headers look great, u must be cheering! :thumbsup: And i'm glad Adrian was able to shed some light on the situation as he has always been very helpful with any problems i have had! Just a shame i couldn't get my car to him last week while he was up in brissy :( Enjoy the Toda Pipes mate!

[yfin]

...the only problem is that I ended up paying over $100 extra then I needed to.

So what is happening with your additional cost?

[E-Gene]

Well, I'm asking the same question.

Not only that, I now have a non-standard Toda Header. It wasn't my prefer option to have to weld an extra flange to the headers, so this is definitely going to affect it when I try to sell it. Or I'll have to pay to get the flange off again.

[tony1234]

It's easy to say in hindsight but you probably should have waited for JTUNE header.

[TODA AU]

Well, I'm asking the same question.
PM sent

[E-Gene]

It's easy to say in hindsight but you probably should have waited for JTUNE header.

For another half a year or more. I don't think so.

[jooboo]

For another half a year or more. I don't think so.

E-Gene <------ Mr. impatient

[tony1234]

For another half a year or more. I don't think so.
Its not that bad.About 8-10 weeks from what i've been told.

[EUR003act]

It's easy to say in hindsight but you probably should have waited for JTUNE header.

if you get the jtune header you MUST get the jtune exhaust... its not plug and play like the toda one, it has a much longer run requiring the cat to be pushed further back towards the rear

[kitbkk]

no offence though,
what i think is, isnt it better to ask revzone to fit the stock header and everything back since the donut ring is missing and everything seemed to be too short or didnt look like it was gonna fit. this way it would have been cheaper and it would be under toda's false and fitting everything back wouldnt cost much as it is very simple to do even a noob like me can do it. i personally wouldnt cut and weld an expensive header in the frst place. just my opinion though, hope everything is solved out. at least ur car is running great.:thumbsup:

[tony1234]

if you get the jtune header you MUST get the jtune exhaust... its not plug and play like the toda one, it has a much longer run requiring the cat to be pushed further back towards the rear
You're right,i forgot,you need to install JTUNE header,cat +exhaust.:o

[E-Gene]

no offence though,
what i think is, isnt it better to ask revzone to fit the stock header and everything back since the donut ring is missing and everything seemed to be too short or didnt look like it was gonna fit. this way it would have been cheaper and it would be under toda's false and fitting everything back wouldnt cost much as it is very simple to do even a noob like me can do it. i personally wouldnt cut and weld an expensive header in the frst place. just my opinion though, hope everything is solved out. at least ur car is running great.:thumbsup:

Well, when you think about cost. This was my situation, my car was already in pieces on the hoist and the parts didn't really fit. If I had them put everything back and I drive away, I'd probably still have to pay for the time that my car was on the hoist. Plus we didn't know that the donut gasket was missing cos we were unable to reach Adrian at that time. :eek:

But anyway they didn't cut anything off the headers but just added to it and it can still be taken off when I want to return to original. Besides, if I were to sell the whole system, then it would still be a straight bolt on, in fact now that the O2 sensors have been rotated to the correct sides, the new owner would even need to extend any wiring at all. :thumbsup:

Ok, but everything has now been settled. Adrian has agreed to cover the additional cost of the install:thumbsup:. All is well. Great product, fantastic feel and I would say good service as well.

TODA & Revzone FTW.

[kitbkk]

was nice to hear that:thumbsup:

[tron07]

just wondering, wouldnt the recomended workshop know that there are certain parts thats was missing?? Unless your car is the first one they install this product"....

[E-Gene]

I'm sure that my car wasn't the first, but at the same time it's not the only car that they do as well. They did notice something missing, but like the story goes...

[yfin]

Adrian has agreed to cover the additional cost of the install:thumbsup:. All is well. Great product, fantastic feel and I would say good service as well.

TODA & Revzone FTW.

The difference between an average and great business is how they deal with customer problems. Well done Toda. :thumbsup:

[aaronng]

That's one good reason to support Toda AU. :)

[E-Gene]

My engine light came on a few days ago and I had it checked out by Essendon Honda and they told me that it's got to do with the new cat that I have on. Apparently the O2 sensors are detecting that the cat isn't burning the gas efficiently enough so the engine light came on. They've resetted it but mentioned that it will probably come back on again.

Any ideas on how to fix this?

Personally I'm hoping that it's got to with the fact that the cat is new and now that it's more "worn" in, it won't happen again.

[kitbkk]

u prolly need to get an anti fouler.
http://www.club3g.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=55284
in us its quite common to get CEL after replacing the cat.
oh and u might wanna read this.
http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28205&page=1&pp=25&highlight=random+tech

[sodaz]

I didn't get the check engine light myself but yes it's quite common when you replace the cat. A lot of people get it with the Random Technology cat from what i've read.

[E-Gene]

Hmmm...it seems that missing gaskets can be the cause of it.

[aaronng]

It's not the missing gasket that causes it. It is the leak that comes with a missing gasket that causes CEL. :)

[kitbkk]

Im running Random Tech cat and I have had no probs ever.
Its quite strange that ur having the CEL. Never heard of anyone in AUS having it before. try double gasgets, might help I think.

[E-Gene]

Im running Random Tech cat and I have had no probs ever.
Its quite strange that ur having the CEL. Never heard of anyone in AUS having it before. try double gasgets, might help I think.

Well, looks like I've been drawing the short end of the stick. There's always a first, not that I want to be the first.

It hasn't come on yet today and I hope that it stays that way.

[E-Gene]

Surprise surprise, my CEL came on again today.

Anyone knows how to reset it without having to send it to the dealer? Could it be bad install that caused it?

[yfin]

Surprise surprise, my CEL came on again today.

Anyone knows how to reset it without having to send it to the dealer? Could it be bad install that caused it?

You need a scan tool to clear the code. On the TSX if you get the check engine light the ECU goes into limp mode too so there is a drop in power. Not sure if that is the same on ours.

[mugen88]

You need a scan tool to clear the code. On the TSX if you get the check engine light the ECU goes into limp mode too so there is a drop in power. Not sure if that is the same on ours.

Yep the Euro has a limp mode when CEL is activated dependant on the problem. It happend to me when my flex pipe cracked on my DC style headers and I couldn't get above 3000 rpm.

[aaronng]

With the good exchange rate against the US dollar, it's time to pick up an OBD2 code reader off ebay.

[E-Gene]

Can I clear the CEL with the OBD2 reader?

[aaronng]

Yes. You can read the code and then clear it. Good readers can read the 5 digit specific code in addition to the general 2 digit code.

[EUR003act]

jaycar electronics - OBDII scan tool $129...

i havent tried it on my euro, but ill try do it sometime this week

[aaronng]

$129, ouch. Can it read the manufacturer-specific 5 digit code as well?

[E-Gene]

So something like this will do?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/OBD2-OBDII-Can-Bus-Diagnostic-Code-Reader-A30-Scanner_W0QQitemZ290168771254QQihZ019QQcategoryZ32 053QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[aaronng]

Yup, that will work.

[E-Gene]

Woah, this is a cheap one. Do we need 5 digit codes or will 4 do?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Creader-ENGINE-OBD2-OBDII-OBD-EOBD-SCANNER-Code-Reader_W0QQitemZ220157871935QQihZ012QQcategoryZ320 53QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[aaronng]

Usually the ones with the 4 digit display will cycle the 5 digit code across the screen. But this cheap one doesn't mention that it can read the manufacturer specific 5 digit code...

Anyway, here are the codes: http://aaronng.ozhonda.com/temp/ECU%20CODES.doc

[E-Gene]

Ok guys, need some advice.

So I went and got a OBD2 scantool and have erased the CEL. But of course every few days it comes back up again and I've got to erase it.

I need a permanent solution for this. I'm not sure if it's a TODA fault (read previous few pages) or an installation issue. So who should I go to cos I REALLY want this fixed.

[aaronng]

Ok guys, need some advice.

So I went and got a OBD2 scantool and have erased the CEL. But of course every few days it comes back up again and I've got to erase it.

I need a permanent solution for this. I'm not sure if it's a TODA fault (read previous few pages) or an installation issue. So who should I go to cos I REALLY want this fixed.

What was the CEL code?

[E-Gene]

It was P0420 Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)

[xframe88]

Have you tried asking the Hondata guys they seem to be doing amazing things with the JTune products and ECUs I’m sure they have come across the problem before.

[E-Gene]

I know what the problem is but what I can't decide is who is suppose to fix it? Toda, or Revzone?

[aaronng]

It was P0420 Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)

It's not Toda's nor Revzone's fault. This code is common with highflow cats. What you need is an O2 sensor defouler. It's basically an extension to get the O2 sensor out of the stream of the exhaust gas. While it could mess a bit with closed loop mode, it'll stop the CEL code from coming back.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid170/p1d4be481710724da550f4f19272ba3bd/f3fab2ec.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid170/p4563a49d02bd81a7f47fc9be2b35dc2d/f3fab2c9.jpg

[E-Gene]

I know of this solution but I also know that there are people out there with Toda hi-flow cats that don't have this problem. And with the mess-ups with my installation (read previous pages) I'm wondering if it's because of the missing gasket or the installation that caused it.

[aaronng]

I know of this solution but I also know that there are people out there with Toda hi-flow cats that don't have this problem. And with the mess-ups with my installation (read previous pages) I'm wondering if it's because of the missing gasket or the installation that caused it.

I don't think a leak would cause your O2 sensor to read richer than it actually was. It depends on how rich your car is setup to run. If your ECU is stock and doesn't have tuned fuel maps, of course it would run rich. The high flow cat would be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

You get this error code when the O2 sensor voltage is out of what has been preset as "normal". Honda might have changed O2 sensor part numbers or changed the range of O2 sensor voltages that the ECU deemed normal, thus making Euros of other years less susceptible to this code.

[E-Gene]

So where can I get one of these defoulers in Aus? Looks like I'm fixing this myself.

[E-Gene]

I realise that the defoulers will solve the problem P0421, but will it solve P0420 too?

[aaronng]

I realise that the defoulers will solve the problem P0421, but will it solve P0420 too?

You're meant to use the defouler on the 2nd O2 sensor to fix the P0420 code (running too rich). P0421 means "Warmup Catalyst Efficiency Below Normal", which is probably the 1st sensor reading rich, while the 2nd sensor is reading normal, since the Euro has only 1 cat and doesn't have a pre-cat.

Was checking other forums and they got P0421 when they had cracks in their headers (no pre-cat). So P0420 is good when compared to P0421

[akina]

Before 108kw
After 119kw

increase across the whole rev range!
good quality headers! thanks adrian and ashley for the install :)

[EUR003act]

Before 108kw
After 119kw

increase across the whole rev range!
good quality headers! thanks adrian and ashley for the install :)

f*ck yeah!

congrats on nice figures buddy! damn i love my TODAs...

very nice!

[enkay]

was that done at toda? (the dyno)

[damienm]

Before 108kw
After 119kw

increase across the whole rev range!
good quality headers! thanks adrian and ashley for the install :)

i bags a ride in ur car first!

[akina]

was that done at toda? (the dyno)

yea was done at toda.

and now the exhaust is fking loud too haha

[aaronng]

yea was done at toda.

and now the exhaust is fking loud too haha
Compare with my car please!!!

[enkay]

haha i also have a dyno done there =D gotta find a scanner somewhere and then we can all compare haha thou i got no exhaust, but i got pulleys
pulled 129.1

[BlueR_Surfer]

Hey Guys,

Just would like to add that Toda Rocks!!!!!!

No other headers will ever come closed to a Toda!!!!!!

Tested And Proven!!!!!!

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Cheers!

[kitbkk]

Before 108kw
After 119kw

increase across the whole rev range!
good quality headers! thanks adrian and ashley for the install :)

congrats akina!
thanks for the figures as well.:thumbsup:

[e240]

Before 108kw
After 119kw

increase across the whole rev range!
good quality headers! thanks adrian and ashley for the install :)

I saw your car today. You have a very clean and nicely kitted car.

[Crapdaz]

Before 108kw
After 119kw

increase across the whole rev range!
good quality headers! thanks adrian and ashley for the install :)
nice work alex.

btw you prob need to let it adjust beforehand. Then get it dyno'd cause it's not use to the better air flow.

your beating me by 6kw!!! --> wait til ECU adjusts to more airflow and you'll prob get the same almost as enkay.
dammit!!

[EuroAccord13]

I put my name on the fact that TODA headers are proven, and the price and quality speaks for itself!

[akina]

Compare with my car please!!!

trust me, u'll hear me 5 streets away.
putting b4 was only 2-3 streets haha


I saw your car today. You have a very clean and nicely kitted car.

thanks mate :thumbsup:


nice work alex.

btw you prob need to let it adjust beforehand. Then get it dyno'd cause it's not use to the better air flow.

your beating me by 6kw!!! --> wait til ECU adjusts to more airflow and you'll prob get the same almost as enkay.
dammit!!

yea, it jumped on the dyno straight after the headers were in.
but we did have a few runs tho... it was like...
112... 115... 117... 119! :D


I put my name on the fact that TODA headers are proven, and the price and quality speaks for itself!

Can't say it better myself :)

[Crapdaz]

nice nice wouldnt be surprised if it was worn in after the dyno run.

[akina]

nice nice wouldnt be surprised if it was worn in after the dyno run.

im thrashing it every chance i get :p

but now gf has said its too loud! i dunno i might keep both the exhaust and change it when tracking or street.

[aaronng]

Show us how loud it is with the BC exhaust. hehe.

[akina]

sure, whos up for a meet? :p

[.QD]

Sure, come out this way :D

[mugen88]

There is a real difference btwn the lowend aftermarket headers and the Toda one.

I have had both and you really pay for what you get so Toda wins again.

[Crapdaz]

i am opted to test out the 5zigen race headers but the price is the problem atm....

[EuroAccord13]

There is a real difference btwn the lowend aftermarket headers and the Toda one.

I have had both and you really pay for what you get so Toda wins again.


I second that statement and both MUGEN88 and me have Dyno sheets to prove that the TODA headers works!

[akina]

For those who get the CEL coming on, mine came on 2 days after the install of the headers and Hi-flow cat. I was driving on the freeway and it just popped up. I completely ignored it for the time being.

A few days later, I gave it a good squirt of petrol and the CEL magically disappeared as it was gone when I got home into the garage.

Now could driving the car nice and hard have any chance of being higher pressure to clean the second o2 sensor as it reads the cat being efficient enough, as to babying the car would have less pressure and get the o2 sensor dirty, therefore, CEL comes on?

[aaronng]

Yes, the hotter the cat, the more efficient it gets. So when you gave it a squirt, the cat got hot enough to operate within the range that the ECU considers as normal.

[Ozluder]

Does anyone know how the Toda Headers compare to the Jtune headers?

[Merlin086]

Does anyone know how the Toda Headers compare to the Jtune headers?

I don't think they butcher the Toda headers when they install them like jtune do, and they probably don't fall apart like the Jtune headers, and they also probably have a warranty.

See pics of my jtune headers that I have just removed after multiple failures!

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70781&page=9

[Accord Basic]

any problem or modification required for install TODA header on CL9? how about not install the cat? just using the test pipe? what can I do to switch off the engine check lights without install a cat? Thanks

[aaronng]

any problem or modification required for install TODA header on CL9? how about not install the cat? just using the test pipe? what can I do to switch off the engine check lights without install a cat? Thanks

You can be fined $10,000 for running a test pipe on the street.

[kira_ti]

you gotta reweld the hanger to fit.
relocate (cut-twist-reweld) o2 bung from the test pipe if your not installing a cat.
then your ready to go..
With CEL,,,.if you happen to get it.. anti fouler will solve it..

[Accord Basic]

what do you mean anti fouler? sorry English is my second language.

[Accord Basic]

what do you guys thinking between Comptech header and Toda header? they are about AUD 900 different. will I get more power and torque from Toda header compare the Comptech header? from the price, Comptech header is more valuable. isn't it? Please advise. Thanks

[tony1234]

what do you guys thinking between Comptech header and Toda header? they are about AUD 900 different. will I get more power and torque from Toda header compare the Comptech header? from the price, Comptech header is more valuable. isn't it? Please advise. Thanks
I have Comptech header(got it 2nd.hand $500)I find it excellent particularly in the low -mid range,car pulls hard now to redline whereas before the engine seemed to be not as willing to go to redline.Toda will give you more gains over Comptech but $900 worth?I doubt it!For me it was a no brainer $500 compared(at the time)to $1500 for Toda.

[Crapdaz]

I have Comptech header(got it 2nd.hand $500)I find it excellent particularly in the low -mid range,car pulls hard now to redline whereas before the engine seemed to be not as willing to go to redline.Toda will give you more gains over Comptech but $900 worth?I doubt it!For me it was a no brainer $500 compared(at the time)to $1500 for Toda.

agreed, i ended up getting dcheaders for $375-400 compared to that hefty $1500.

[johnprocter]

i'd personally rather spend the difference on tuning/ecu instead of spending all of it just on toda headers

[aaronng]

i'd personally rather spend the difference on tuning/ecu instead of spending all of it just on toda headers
If you spend that on the ECU and tuning, and the remaining parts are stock or crappy, the gains might be less than toda headers anyway.

[johnprocter]

If you spend that on the ECU and tuning, and the remaining parts are stock or crappy, the gains might be less than toda headers anyway.

comptech headers cant be that much worse compared to toda??

[aaronng]

comptech headers cant be that much worse compared to toda??

Oh you have Comptech? Ok then. I thought you had stock headers and expected the ecu tuning to beat the Toda in gains.

[EuroAccord13]

We've found that the TODA headers produce more significant with tuning.

[johnprocter]

Oh you have Comptech? Ok then. I thought you had stock headers and expected the ecu tuning to beat the Toda in gains.

naa i have dc sports but iam just saying in general after market headers + tuning > toda headers without tuning ??

[EuroAccord13]

naa i have dc sports but iam just saying in general after market headers + tuning > toda headers without tuning ??


Can go both ways, tuning the DC sports headers is limited by the primary pipes and every car is different, two different cars with the same tuning on the DC sports can lead to one churning out more power than a car with TODA headers with no tuning and the other making less gains.

[Accord Basic]

Thank you all, I have purchased a Toda header and a xforce metal cat. I will try to put it on and do a dyno next year. I also going to put a ORC 309DS clutch and LSD on my EURO if all the parts came in next week. I have booked my mechanic on 16th DEC for install clutch. I have a problem posting photo on the forum. can't allow me upload photos (150kB only) any idea?

Also Can I ask, after ECU tunning, what function I will lose? mine is LUX model, with cruise control? Thanks all of you. I am very happy to listen any comments for you. Thanks

[johnprocter]

upload the photo to www.tinypic.com then post the link they give :)

[Crapdaz]

Thank you all, I have purchased a Toda header and a xforce metal cat. I will try to put it on and do a dyno next year. I also going to put a ORC 309DS clutch and LSD on my EURO if all the parts came in next week. I have booked my mechanic on 16th DEC for install clutch. I have a problem posting photo on the forum. can't allow me upload photos (150kB only) any idea?

Also Can I ask, after ECU tunning, what function I will lose? mine is LUX model, with cruise control? Thanks all of you. I am very happy to listen any comments for you. Thanks

depending what ECU your getting.

[free2d]

to install toda header on euro, must take down the whole engine?

[EUR003act]

to install toda header on euro, must take down the whole engine?

nope... just bolt on...

may require you to remove oil filter... depends how good you are lol :thumbsup:

[Crapdaz]

hey was the TODA 1 piece or sub assembled from 3 segments 4-2-1?

[tony1234]

hey was the TODA 1 piece or sub assembled from 3 segments 4-2-1?
Toda is 1 piece i think.

[Crapdaz]

Toda is 1 piece i think.

farkkk if it is it will be a biatch! to install yourself.....

[kitbkk]

easy if you have skills yo!

[Crapdaz]

easy if you have skills yo!
no you need the tools cant do it with just a floor jack i reckon.

[aaronng]

You need a hoist.

[Crapdaz]

You need a hoist.
yeh kinda what i am saying since it's a 1 piece.

[tony1234]

You need a hoist.
Agreed.I watched my headers being installed and it'd be near impossible to do it with a floorjack and stands.

[EUR003act]

no you need the tools cant do it with just a floor jack i reckon.

unless you got 4ft floor stands :p lol

[Crapdaz]

Agreed.I watched my headers being installed and it'd be near impossible to do it with a floorjack and stands.

Rofl the comptech is 1 piece as well?

With the DC headers it's 2 piece so it's do-able.
But much easier on a hoist.


unless you got 4ft floor stands :p lol
ROfl justin, yeh so much easier with more room to work with.

[EUR003act]

Rofl the comptech is 1 piece as well?

With the DC headers it's 2 piece so it's do-able.
But much easier on a hoist.


ROfl justin, yeh so much easier with more room to work with.

hehehe :p

i think i need a set of them so i can find my damn rattle!

[EuroAccord13]

You need a hoist.

*Edit, just measured, it was just under 400mm*

I installed my Toda headers on Jackstands, which sits the car approximately 400mm above ground, it can be done, just need to be good at twisting and turning the headers a few times inside the cavity.

[TODA AU]

I installed my Toda headers on Jackstands
LOL... Mad bastard! I would never try that...
The bloody things are tricky enough on the hoist.
Stuff doing that IQ test flat on your back under the car.. :p

[EuroAccord13]

^^^
I did that 3 times already LOL!..... No Sweat... But the first time was filled with vulgarities LOL!!!!!!

BTW, I'm sending something over to you :)

[defibros]

Will a Toda header from a EURO R with K20A engine able to fit into my 2003 k24 engine?

[TODA AU]

Will a Toda header from a EURO R with K20A engine able to fit into my 2003 k24 engine?

Yes, the CL7 header is the one most guys have been using up untill quite recently.
However there is a K24 CL9 header available now that allows you to keep the std catalyst.

http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/product/ex_mani/k24a-cl9.jpg
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23733

[defibros]

So if i want to use the old cl7 header, i suppose i need the EURO R cat as well ?



Yes, the CL7 header is the one most guys have been using up untill quite recently.
However there is a K24 CL9 header available now that allows you to keep the std catalyst.

http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/product/ex_mani/k24a-cl9.jpg
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23733

[EUR003act]

So if i want to use the old cl7 header, i suppose i need the EURO R cat as well ?




yes.... or a custom cat... or buy the TODA cat... :thumbsup:

[BusterSonic12]

What's the difference between the cl7 and cl9 toda headers? can you get toda hi flow cat with both systems?

[Crapdaz]

the positioning on the CL7 sits higher so the CL7 headers have a fitment probs on our CL9 subframe underneath.
so if you do get it get the CL9 otherwise CL7 ones you will be paying for installer to mod your chassis.

[EUR003act]

the positioning on the CL7 sits higher so the CL7 headers have a fitment probs on our CL9 subframe underneath.
so if you do get it get the CL9 otherwise CL7 ones you will be paying for installer to mod your chassis.

if your buying them from TODA racing australia (adrian is awesome!)...

theyll fit the CL9 perfectly :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Crapdaz]

if your buying them from TODA racing australia (adrian is awesome!)...

theyll fit the CL9 perfectly :thumbsup::thumbsup:
the CL7 version? The ones adrians gets are CL9... or am i totally of my mind.

[aaronng]

the CL7 version? The ones adrians gets are CL9... or am i totally of my mind.

You're smoking something real guuuuuud. :p

The CL7 Toda header will fit CL9. Just need to adjust the hanger a little bit. No subframe clearance problems, unlike with J's racing CL7 header.

[Crapdaz]

You're smoking something real guuuuuud. :p

The CL7 Toda header will fit CL9. Just need to adjust the hanger a little bit. No subframe clearance problems, unlike with J's racing CL7 header.

yeh bummer must be pot!

[BusterSonic12]

ya i thought so, because i never heard of fitment problem with the toda CL7 headers for our euro, but what about in terms of spec of the headers? what's the difference with the CL7 and CL9 toda headers?

[aaronng]

if aaron said so should just be the mounting bracket position

PM Adrian to find the answer.

Nah, the CL9 one has extra primary O2 sensor ports on the secondaries and comes with an adapter to change from the 2 spring-bolt flange to the 3-bolt trapezium shaped flange that we have on the cat inlet side.

[aaronng]

oooh okay thanks aaron, you have brightened my day again!
didn't know it came with extra sensor and support flanges to adapt.

hm.....

It's in TODA AU's post on the previous page. http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2105537&postcount=190

[TODA AU]

Yup...
The main advantage with the CL9 header vs the CL7 header is that the CL9 header is an easy install for the home DIY guys.
As Aaronng said,
The CL7 header has a small issue with the hanger & the lead 02 sensor position is wrong.
This is sorted by adding a cat to the supplied test pipe & turningthe lead section 180deg.
The other bonus is the CL9 header comes with the donut gasket.
The CL7 does not. You're expected to reuse the existing one on your CL7.
CL9 header can be used with std cat or supplied test pipe.
CL7 header needs to be used with supplied test pipe & for road use, a cat added to that test pipe.
Cheers

Adrian

[Accord Basic]

I have installed the TODA CL7 header, same issue with hanger and O2 plug. otherwise all good. I love the header, give me lots of torque compare with stock header. just a bit more noise but I love the noise. Installed a X-force metal cat and 5 zigen exhaust. the cat weld on the exhaust b pipe and cut off the taper section become straight run. which mean better flow. :).....

[BusterSonic12]

any difference in performance, adrian?


Yup...
The main advantage with the CL9 header vs the CL7 header is that the CL9 header is an easy install for the home DIY guys.
As Aaronng said,
The CL7 header has a small issue with the hanger & the lead 02 sensor position is wrong.
This is sorted by adding a cat to the supplied test pipe & turningthe lead section 180deg.
The other bonus is the CL9 header comes with the donut gasket.
The CL7 does not. You're expected to reuse the existing one on your CL7.
CL9 header can be used with std cat or supplied test pipe.
CL7 header needs to be used with supplied test pipe & for road use, a cat added to that test pipe.
Cheers

Adrian

[doosra]

yeah.. i'm keen to know whether there is any difference in performance between cl7 and cl9 ones..

how much are these headers anyways.. i'm damn keen to get a set..

[Phased]

yeah.. i'm keen to know whether there is any difference in performance between cl7 and cl9 ones..

how much are these headers anyways.. i'm damn keen to get a set..

Performance differance im unsure of. I would assume they are similar except don't forget the actual length/size of them is differant as the K20 Head sits higher than the K24.

As for cost, new i think they fetch a VERY high premium due to poor exchange rates/eco crisis. I would assume at the cheapest mid to high 1000's.

[integral90]

As for cost, new i think they fetch a VERY high premium due to poor exchange rates/eco crisis. I would assume at the cheapest mid to high 1000's.

Try $2,500AUD+

[Phased]

Try $2,500AUD+

That's a Joke. Seriously, Xforce Headers for $399 or get some custom ones made up. The powergain from Toda compared to custom/xforce would simply NOT be worth the extra $2000 almost.

[integral90]

That's a Joke. Seriously, Xforce Headers for $399 or get some custom ones made up. The powergain from Toda compared to custom/xforce would simply NOT be worth the extra $2000 almost.

Well that's all a perspective thing... as with all bolt-on modifications, their restrictions are only increased when everything around them improves. The 3-5kW difference the Todas would have on an otherwise stock Euro could become a lot more when other work gets done.

Depends, if you have the money and you want every last kW you can get... why not?

[craze]

Well that's all a perspective thing... as with all bolt-on modifications, their restrictions are only increased when everything around them improves. The 3-5kW difference the Todas would have on an otherwise stock Euro could become a lot more when other work gets done.

Depends, if you have the money and you want every last kW you can get... why not?

agreed:thumbsup:

[Phased]

Well that's all a perspective thing... as with all bolt-on modifications, their restrictions are only increased when everything around them improves. The 3-5kW difference the Todas would have on an otherwise stock Euro could become a lot more when other work gets done.

Depends, if you have the money and you want every last kW you can get... why not?

No Doubt. Although I personally wouldn't. I would prefer to spend that $2,000 on suspension, tyres, RBC+Full Exhaust. Unless you have limitless money, or a very high budget. You would be better off splitting it. for eg. $2500 could get you custom/xforce headers, custom full exhaust, RBC Intake and Air Intake. Which one do you think would make more power?

However, if you were to compare them to custom headers, or headers like Fujitsubo's/5zigen... I wonder what the REAL differances would be. Im pretty sure the majority of the time, it's money best spent elsewhere. The cars with the most power are usually the cars with custom built parts for the build, which usually are still a hell of alot cheaper than most high-end brands.

I would definantly buy Toda's/Fujitsubo's over most if they were in the low 1000's but @ $2500 it just simply isn't worth it.

[EUR003act]

N/A = expensive :(

[Accord Basic]

I just did a summary of what I did on performance parts on my euro (not include all other parts e.g. badges, body kit or rims).
$10,500 for 155 hp @ wheel. about $67 per hp. is it sound ok or I did spend too much per hp?
My parts included - GreppM intake, Toda header, xforce metal cat, 5 Zigen pro racer twin exhaust and ORC clutch. included installation cost.
How do you guy think? welcome to tell me bad or good things.
:P

[aaronng]

I just did a summary of what I did on performance parts on my euro (not include all other parts e.g. badges, body kit or rims).
$10,500 for 155 hp @ wheel. about $67 per hp. is it sound ok or I did spend too much per hp?
My parts included - GreppM intake, Toda header, xforce metal cat, 5 Zigen pro racer twin exhaust and ORC clutch. included installation cost.
How do you guy think? welcome to tell me bad or good things.
:P

That's not how you calculate it. You need to take the 155hp minus the base hp and then you use that number to calculate $$ per hp.

Here is mine:
Base - 110kW (147.51 hp)
Added headers - 119.2 (159.85 hp)
$350 for 12.34 hp gain to give $28.36 per hp.

[Accord Basic]

Thanks, I don't know what is my car base power. :(