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yfin
16-08-2007, 07:00 PM
Another result for the CTR in Motor September 2007.

Ranked 6th in the $30-40k category.

0-100km in 7.7 sec
0-400m in 15.5 @ 148.4kph
0-1000m in 28.1 sec @ 189.7kph
80-120 (3rd) 4.8 sec
100km - 0 in 37.8 metres
Lap time 1:14.49 (Wakefield)
Apex speed 80.67km

All the cars in the article seem to run a bit slower than you expect (eg Mazda 3MPS ran 0-100 in 6.9sec and 14.8sec).

Comment by racing driver Luffy:

"It's okay. It makes a lot of noise and it feels quick, but it's not. The chassis balance is quite good, not much you can complain about, but I just don't like the ergonomics. The gearshift is too far away and I couldn't see the speedo. It simply doesn't live up to the reputation of the Type R name".

Good to see my VE SS won! Except for the brakes they like the SS.

Chris_typer
16-08-2007, 08:18 PM
There just so harsh on it..comparing it too a VE SS well obviously its going to lose.

yfin
16-08-2007, 08:21 PM
There just so harsh on it..comparing it too a VE SS well obviously its going to lose.

Well the SS won the $40-65k category and overall.

The CTR came last in the $30-40k category so it was compared to similar cars - I`ll list them in a few min.

yfin
16-08-2007, 08:43 PM
$30-40k category
6th Civic Type R
5th Toyota Aurion Sportivo
4th VW Golf gt
3rd Mini Cooper S
2nd Peugeot 207 Gti
1st Mazda 3 MPS

Jaso
16-08-2007, 10:33 PM
Golf GT has a very good motor in it.


0-100km in 7.7 sec
0-400m in 15.5 @ 148.4kph

Thats what your average falcadore is!

Its funny cause I seem to remember reading a motor review where they rate the civic better than the gti/Cooper s but here it ranks worse than the s/gt...go figure...

Chris_typer
16-08-2007, 10:47 PM
The civic overall is a better car then all of the listed anyway..probably the only options I would look at are the Mazda 3 MPS and the 207 GTi..but besides that I'm still pretty happy with the car overall. Planning on getting an intake system and ECU chip put in soon and should bring the 0-100 down to prob around 7 secs and overall about 165Kw + .. so that in mind im still happy with the performance so far.

aaronng
16-08-2007, 11:16 PM
What was the lap time of the Aurion and 3MPS?

[[d a n n y]]
16-08-2007, 11:24 PM
There just so harsh on it..comparing it too a VE SS well obviously its going to lose.

oh well that's life
but good to see that the CTR has done well

Q_ball
16-08-2007, 11:52 PM
I dont think thats harsh at all...i do personally feel that the new CTR hatch is rubbish in comparison to the other R's that are out there.
It seems as tho the newer they are, the shitter they become.
Nothing beats the original.

xtercii
16-08-2007, 11:56 PM
I can't see the typr R-ness in this car apart from its engine and gearbox...
honestly who's Honda trying to fool...

gelo
17-08-2007, 12:14 AM
i was told about the chassis of the hatch type R by ichishima

its pretty crap

aaronng
17-08-2007, 12:41 AM
I dont think thats harsh at all...i do personally feel that the new CTR hatch is rubbish in comparison to the other R's that are out there.
It seems as tho the newer they are, the shitter they become.
Nothing beats the original.

This is the UK designed and made CTR. It's not what the Japanese wanted. That's why they made their own. The FD2R > EK9 anyway. :)

yfin
17-08-2007, 06:41 AM
What was the lap time of the Aurion and 3MPS?

The Aurion had ESP kicking in all the time so its time suffered a lot (cant turn it off).

Here are lap times

Evo IX 69.39
350Z Track 70.41
Clubsport R8 70.69
Lotus Elise S 71.20
VE SS 71.49
Audi S3 71.49
FPV Force 6 71.60
Megane F1 R26 71.90
Audi TT 2.0T 72.19
Liberty GT STI 72.20
Mazda 3 MPS 72.81
Astra VXR 73.20
Mini Cooper S 73.69
Pug 207 GTI 73.79
Civic Type R 74.49
Volvo C30 T5 74.89
Colt Ralliart 75.12
VW Golf GT 75.29 (not the GTI)
Fiesta XR4 75.51
Aurion SX6 76.11
Swift Sport 77.29
Punto Sport 77.59

yfin
17-08-2007, 06:42 AM
Its funny cause I seem to remember reading a motor review where they rate the civic better than the gti/Cooper s but here it ranks worse than the s/gt...go figure...


I am pretty sure that was Wheels magazine. BFYB is based on a formula too - so there are categories of performance (lap time, 0-1000m, etc, etc) vs price.

Philip Lee
17-08-2007, 10:41 AM
if you read the judges verdicts, it's obvious that the CTR is a love it/hate it car.

it has a 1st, a few 2nd & 3rd and nothing lower than 4th iirc. some people will love it to death while some will think its ordinary and not living up to the R badge.

and i kinda agree with Charles' column in the latest ASM. the good old days are long gone and we better get used to these newer breeds of performance cars.

with regards to the ranking, it's all about bang per buck. the CTR ranks lowly becos it's costly for it's performance and it's kinda expected that MPS 3 etc will walk it with much more output at similar price. however sometimes there are more to driving than outright speed. that's why cars like Mx5 has it's appeal.

denot
17-08-2007, 01:37 PM
and i kinda agree with Charles' column in the latest ASM. the good old days are long gone and we better get used to these newer breeds of performance cars.


True... once we got into flying cars then all of our good ol EK, DC2, NSX, etc will be goooonee... :p (big question is... when? :p)

ontopic: CTR seems make a good lap time out of those 30-40k dont you think?

Waggy
17-08-2007, 01:40 PM
WTF Mazda MPS3 got 1st?

Where's the Ford XR5?

denot
17-08-2007, 01:46 PM
WTF Mazda MPS3 got 1st?

Where's the Ford XR5?

its not even worthed to test :D jkz...

didz
17-08-2007, 03:11 PM
WTF Mazda MPS3 got 1st?

Where's the Ford XR5?

pretty sure the xr5 is much higher in the price category. last time i checked it was 45-55k

Waggy
17-08-2007, 03:14 PM
http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1137384155663&pagename=FOA%2FDFYPage%2FDefault1024&c=DFYPage

It's $37k. It's actually one of the cheapest and best hot hatches available as long as you can get past the badge.

Good power, great styling and excellent creature comforts.

didz
17-08-2007, 03:18 PM
http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1137384155663&pagename=FOA%2FDFYPage%2FDefault1024&c=DFYPage

It's $37k. It's actually one of the cheapest and best hot hatches available as long as you can get past the badge.

Good power, great styling and excellent creature comforts.

stand corrected, again i was just going by what i saw last time (think it was when it first launched).

The problem with Ford (according to me) is that its too generic. Everything for the Aus public seems to be too mainstream and too conservative.

xtercii
17-08-2007, 04:48 PM
It was 35999 when first launched.

Tofu
17-08-2007, 04:59 PM
um....7.7s and 15.5 for 1/4...
that alone makes it obvious it's not worth being called a TypeR...

but then again, the figures for the MPS3 seems slow too....???

Q_ball
17-08-2007, 05:02 PM
Dont believe those figures for a second..
The figures that they produced for the DC2R's 1/4 mile were dismal as well and werent anything close to low 14s as we all know they are capable of.

Tofu
17-08-2007, 05:06 PM
that is true..
Motor tested the TypeS to be 0-100 in 7.2s and 1/4 in 15.2s stock, and I've done better than their times.

These journalists need to learn how to drive.

yfin
17-08-2007, 05:34 PM
Dont believe those figures for a second..
The figures that they produced for the DC2R's 1/4 mile were dismal as well and werent anything close to low 14s as we all know they are capable of.


that is true..
Motor tested the TypeS to be 0-100 in 7.2s and 1/4 in 15.2s stock, and I've done better than their times.

These journalists need to learn how to drive.

I don't know why some people feel the need to defend the CTR at each occassion. This is now 2 Australian motor articles which are reporting similar times for the vehicle. That said - it is limited to the particular day of the test and those conditions. As you can see other cars have got better times too.

I am sure the CTR can do better but these are the times it recorded on that day. The motor was probably tight, blah blah blah. I am sure there are lots of situations where the CTR and the other cars can get a better time. But this is the time it recorded for this test in the same conditions as the other cars.

And the car was tested by an experienced racing driver. I don't have the article in front of me but I think his name is Ian Luffy.

mpd076-chuck
17-08-2007, 06:06 PM
I posted this in another CTR thread already, but I have been fortunate to tag along for 2 road tests (big me!) and I can tell you they do not go easy on the cars. They keep working on the car and try different methods within the time frame they have to get the best launch.

None of the car owners were able to match the times the journalists put down. Now they aren't the Best Drivers but they do go hard.

The CTR still did a respectable lap time, but how dearly would I love a current Honda model that could really mix it up with the fast guys! I guess it's frustrating when we know honda can do that but deliver something that's more aimed at being a Grand Tourer than all out ball tearer.

yfin
17-08-2007, 07:49 PM
^^ exactly that is the time it got on that day with a good driver. You dont hear me complaining that the driver was crap because the SS got 14.1 over the 1/4 when last time Motor tested it they got 13.4. As long as the conditions were the same and the driver was the same that is a fair comparison of vehicles in the test.

fasthonda
17-08-2007, 08:51 PM
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .The CTR still did a respectable lap time, but how dearly would I love a current Honda model that could really mix it up with the fast guys! I guess it's frustrating when we know honda can do that but deliver something that's more aimed at being a Grand Tourer than all out ball tearer.

I totally agree.
Honda prides it's self on it's racing heritage and experience and yet,struggles to bring out a hi-performance car that should really be the class leader,instead you have cars like the Mini CS and Peugeot 207 GTI giving it a spanking:(
In the test they commented that :" its brillant drivetrain had to deal with such a heavy body." The CTR was 215kgs heavier than the Mini and 95 kgs heavier than the Peugeot GTI-how can the CTR compete with a substantially heavier body and no force induction?I realise that force induction is not part of the Type R philosophy however,as such is the case,we better get used to the Civic coming out in the tail end of performance tests.
The 15.5 secs for the 0-400m was actually quite good for the CTR and so was the 100-0 brake test.
The potential for better performance is available, but how do you get rid of 100kgs of excess weight :?:

chunky
17-08-2007, 09:15 PM
i think the new ctr is crap =[
like a 2 sec job by honda

yfin
17-08-2007, 09:19 PM
like a 2 sec job by honda

You always have a way with words Chunky

Omotesando
17-08-2007, 09:59 PM
CTR has completely lost the plot IMHO.

I would get a Pug 207GTI or an F1 R26 by Renault anyday over it. 3.X secs difference in lap time is almost an eternity.

The thing is, if Type R is really about racing then Honda ought to show other manufacturers they are as fast/faster than the competition. Naturally aspirated or turboed I do not care as long as the car has great balance.

HONDA really aren't very capable sometimes. Look at their dismal performances at F1. Barrichello came last in the last round. CTR also came last in the category. Lol. Even the Aurion beat it.

What constantly surprises me is how well the 350Z track edition fares during the tests over the years. Perhaps Honda might want to look towards that direction a bit. And give the cars more useable torque from factory, for christs sake.

aaronng
17-08-2007, 11:02 PM
HONDA really aren't very capable sometimes. Look at their dismal performances at F1. Barrichello came last in the last round. CTR also came last in the category. Lol. Even the Aurion beat it.

What constantly surprises me is how well the 350Z track edition fares during the tests over the years. Perhaps Honda might want to look towards that direction a bit. And give the cars more useable torque from factory, for christs sake.
The thing is, this CTR was made to be a "cruiser" while (mis)using the Type R name. That's why Honda Japan didn't take the FN2R as the Type R like what they did previously with the UK-designed EP3R, instead opting to make their own Type R using the JDM Civic platform.

[S2000 rant]
I wish Honda came out with a rival to the 350Z. The S2000 doesn't count because that was made as the rival to the old Z3, SLK230 and old Boxster. It's time for a new model. 7 years is too long. It's like the NSX. By going too long without a new model, people will go for the newer and more "exciting" models. [/S2000 rant]

Tofu
17-08-2007, 11:50 PM
^ totally agree with the S2000 comment...

but anyway, back on topic..i went and bought the issue of Motor magazine with the BFYB and reading the article makes me wonder if because of this, sales (or resale value) of the CTR would suffer....

yfin
18-08-2007, 10:04 AM
^ totally agree with the S2000 comment...

but anyway, back on topic..i went and bought the issue of Motor magazine with the BFYB and reading the article makes me wonder if because of this, sales (or resale value) of the CTR would suffer....

Possibly yes. I tell you what though - that Renault F1 R26 looks like a real cracker. It is a little more expensive than the CTR (around $45k) but it did pull out better lap and acceleration times than the 3MPS. Sounds awesome

Tofu
18-08-2007, 05:05 PM
yah i totally agree with you there yfin :D
if only the Froggy's have a better reputation for reliability...

hengz
18-08-2007, 06:14 PM
some people will love it to death while some will think its ordinary and not living up to the R badge.

and i kinda agree with Charles' column in the latest ASM. the good old days are long gone and we better get used to these newer breeds of performance cars.

I believe this to be tottally true. I originally wasn't a big fan of honda because i'd always loved my evo's but since picking up my CTR last night i absolutely love it. Preformance cars as we know it has changed, i was originally in the market for a dc2r but i find this car is more well suited for me. It's a nice daily whilst also has preformance when needed. :thumbsup:

Omotesando
18-08-2007, 09:12 PM
U know what is really surprising too is that, whilst straight line speed isn't all that matters, this version of CTR is slower from 0-100 than the Euro Accord!

2ndly without an LSD, it really doesn't deserve the R-badge, especially if it has tendencies to run wide as the Ian Luff noted.

Not sure if everyone know but Ian Luff is very very very capable in most racing series he competes in. The guy is so good, whenever the race is wet, he will just about lap everyone. I'll probably rate him higher than the other Rick Bates (?) and Cameron McConville, although they're all pretty good drivers.

Anyone who says these Motor 'Journos' cant drive or can't get better acceleration times must be kidding themselves.

I have driven the DC2R and the DC5Rs numerous times and quite honestly, their straight line speeds aren't impressive at all. The Euro Accord feels faster especially rolling start, but the DC2R and DC5Rs can launch better on the odd occasion just because they are a much lighter FWD, 2ndly they have better gearing ratios. Still, not as over rated as the Mitsu FTO though. Or the new CTR we are getting.

Chris_typer
19-08-2007, 01:13 AM
I believe this to be tottally true. I originally wasn't a big fan of honda because i'd always loved my evo's but since picking up my CTR last night i absolutely love it. Preformance cars as we know it has changed, i was originally in the market for a dc2r but i find this car is more well suited for me. It's a nice daily whilst also has preformance when needed. :thumbsup:

Yes exactly..alright it might not be the fastest of cars but its not like your on a race track everyday, maybe if you were you would notice it more that doesn't perform as good as other rivals but for day to day use and times when you want to have some fun at the lights..it still goes hard so you can say what you want, its still a good quality car.

ennavoli
19-08-2007, 01:10 PM
The Euro Accord feels faster especially rolling start, but the DC2R and DC5Rs can launch better on the odd occasion just because they are a much lighter FWD, 2ndly they have better gearing ratios. Still, not as over rated as the Mitsu FTO though. Or the new CTR we are getting.

It might feel faster but it will not be faster, should be very close due to the 0.4 displacement torque the EURO has, but AUDM EURO does not have the almighty K20A engine head of the EURO R (CL7R), which again disadvantages it, together with the weight.

However, in the wet, it does stands a chance though, with the all round double wishbone. For the EURO to compete against the DC2R or DC5R on the tracks, alot of dough will have to be spent on weight reducing the accord, together with the gear ratios as you have pointed out, plus their "daily driving" final drive ratio.

ennavoli
19-08-2007, 01:22 PM
Yes exactly..alright it might not be the fastest of cars but its not like your on a race track everyday, maybe if you were you would notice it more that doesn't perform as good as other rivals but for day to day use and times when you want to have some fun at the lights..it still goes hard so you can say what you want, its still a good quality car.

As long as you're happy with your purchase, that's all that matters. :thumbsup:

Not a fan of the performance or the looks of it, but I do agree the interior and certain portions of the vehicle looks good quality.

Give it a little bit of time to mature, then slowly more aftermarket parts will be out. If I had a FN2R right now, I would just keep it stock for a couple of years and spend on custom fibre parts to reduce its weight, but hey that's just me. :)

aaronng
19-08-2007, 01:32 PM
I have driven the DC2R and the DC5Rs numerous times and quite honestly, their straight line speeds aren't impressive at all. The Euro Accord feels faster especially rolling start, but the DC2R and DC5Rs can launch better on the odd occasion just because they are a much lighter FWD, 2ndly they have better gearing ratios. Still, not as over rated as the Mitsu FTO though. Or the new CTR we are getting.
I've driven the Euro and the DC5R. The DC5R feels slower, but does the 0-100km/h in less time than the Euro. It's because of the torque. I did both cars from rolling starts.

ennavoli
19-08-2007, 01:41 PM
I've driven the Euro and the DC5R. The DC5R feels slower, but does the 0-100km/h in less time than the Euro. It's because of the torque. I did both cars from rolling starts.

I have driven both the JDM CL7R and JDM DC5R (Back in S'pore), also from rolling starts.

I can tell you the difference is very very minimal, CL7R's K20A is setup slightly differently from the JDM DC5R's K20A, the CL7R's engine is setup for more torque. Change the final drive on the accord to that of the DC5R, we will have a very very close battle on rolling starts.

Chris_typer
19-08-2007, 01:44 PM
As long as you're happy with your purchase, that's all that matters. :thumbsup:

Not a fan of the performance or the looks of it, but I do agree the interior and certain portions of the vehicle looks good quality.

Give it a little bit of time to mature, then slowly more aftermarket parts will be out. If I had a FN2R right now, I would just keep it stock for a couple of years and spend on custom fibre parts to reduce its weight, but hey that's just me. :)

Yeah thats what I was looking into..but for the time being yeh im completely happy with it, when some mod's mature I will be looking into buying some.

yfin
19-08-2007, 05:45 PM
U know what is really surprising too is that, whilst straight line speed isn't all that matters, this version of CTR is slower from 0-100 than the Euro Accord!

There is a NZ magazine test where the standard Euro got 0-100 in 7.6 seconds. Honda in the UK quote 7.9 seconds for the Euro.

The thing to keep in mind is that the Euro 0-100kph is assisted by still being in 2nd gear when it hits 100kph.

The CTR/DC5R have already changed to 3rd by 100kph so any advantage the Euro had up to 100kph is lost when the Euro needs to shift to 3rd.

aaronng
19-08-2007, 05:47 PM
I have driven both the JDM CL7R and JDM DC5R (Back in S'pore), also from rolling starts.

I can tell you the difference is very very minimal, CL7R's K20A is setup slightly differently from the JDM DC5R's K20A, the CL7R's engine is setup for more torque. Change the final drive on the accord to that of the DC5R, we will have a very very close battle on rolling starts.

Our Euros are CL9s... We wish we had the CL7 though.

didz
19-08-2007, 06:39 PM
The way i see it is, Honda went wrong when they strayed away from the formula they used with the DC2/5R's. Everything that didnt need to be there for racing and shit was taken out. No A/C, sound deadening, etc... This time round' the car's weight is what is slowing it down. Make it 1160kg like the DC5R and it will be a monster on the track and have MUCH more desirable accel times. The thing comes with that many gadgets and shit anyone would think it was a euro sports model inside and not a type R.

ennavoli
19-08-2007, 09:59 PM
The way i see it is, Honda went wrong when they strayed away from the formula they used with the DC2/5R's. Everything that didnt need to be there for racing and shit was taken out. No A/C, sound deadening, etc... This time round' the car's weight is what is slowing it down. Make it 1160kg like the DC5R and it will be a monster on the track and have MUCH more desirable accel times. The thing comes with that many gadgets and shit anyone would think it was a euro sports model inside and not a type R.

IMHO, Honda actually did a fine job analyzing the current market before releasing FN2R. Most people in the market for a new performance car these days do actually prefer not only performance but a more comfortable ride and expect more "advanced" features (cruise controls, multiple airbags etc) Only the fair few of us actually want a more raw car which we fondly remember the type R badge sworn by. Most people will want more features out of a 2007 spec model than a 1998 model.

Not only the weight is a disadvantage, but the rear torsion beam makes me wonder if the rear suspension can be easily tuned for camber angles. FN2R is a hot hatch, not the JDM type R everyone wants.

In terms of marketing, they did good, but not for the few fair of us enthusiast. I myself prefer the raw type R and not the current FN2R, but we can always lighten the car ourselves. :) That is why there is the JDM FD2R for the more hardcore audience, but unfortunately, it might not arrive in Australia at all.

6ary
20-08-2007, 03:54 AM
IMHO, Honda actually did a fine job analyzing the current market before releasing FN2R. Most people in the market for a new performance car these days do actually prefer not only performance but a more comfortable ride and expect more "advanced" features (cruise controls, multiple airbags etc) Only the fair few of us actually want a more raw car which we fondly remember the type R badge sworn by. Most people will want more features out of a 2007 spec model than a 1998 model.

Not only the weight is a disadvantage, but the rear torsion beam makes me wonder if the rear suspension can be easily tuned for camber angles. FN2R is a hot hatch, not the JDM type R everyone wants.

In terms of marketing, they did good, but not for the few fair of us enthusiast. I myself prefer the raw type R and not the current FN2R, but we can always lighten the car ourselves. :) That is why there is the JDM FD2R for the more hardcore audience, but unfortunately, it might not arrive in Australia at all.

I'm in a love hate relationship with my FN2R, love it because its great new and has that wow factor especially to my non-honda frens, but in the back of my mind its a 2nd class typeR behind the FD2R. I don't need cruise control or dual climate control. I need LSD and brembos and +20hp! I didn't buy a dc5r or dc2r because i don't like 2nd hand cars and old interiors. The perfect car to me would be a fd2r in a fn2 shell, wotcha guys think?

aaronng
20-08-2007, 07:42 AM
I'm in a love hate relationship with my FN2R, love it because its great new and has that wow factor especially to my non-honda frens, but in the back of my mind its a 2nd class typeR behind the FD2R. I don't need cruise control or dual climate control. I need LSD and brembos and +20hp! I didn't buy a dc5r or dc2r because i don't like 2nd hand cars and old interiors. The perfect car to me would be a fd2r in a fn2 shell, wotcha guys think?

If I didn't urgently need a car, I would have waited 1 year to see if the FD2R is released here. Or at least drive a 2nd hand car until the FD2R is confirmed to be released.

Nepolian
20-08-2007, 10:30 AM
I was lookin for a "Hot hatch" and test drove almost everyone.....R32, GTI, MPS3, XR5 etc....but there is somting about being able to rev to 8500rpm...maybe its just me. Sometimes I think that I should've bought a FN2R for the fancy bits, but since I got the EP3R I am happy with it and save some dough for mods:)............Having said that, if the FD2R had been available, it would win hands down.

End of the day, each to their own. Theres a car out there for everyone to buy to suit their personal taste and needs. My 2c.

Cheers


I'm in a love hate relationship with my FN2R, love it because its great new and has that wow factor especially to my non-honda frens, but in the back of my mind its a 2nd class typeR behind the FD2R. I don't need cruise control or dual climate control. I need LSD and brembos and +20hp! I didn't buy a dc5r or dc2r because i don't like 2nd hand cars and old interiors. The perfect car to me would be a fd2r in a fn2 shell, wotcha guys think?

6ary
20-08-2007, 03:42 PM
If I didn't urgently need a car, I would have waited 1 year to see if the FD2R is released here. Or at least drive a 2nd hand car until the FD2R is confirmed to be released.

i actually needed a car urgently, i almost got an evo9.. unfortunately i checked the insurance premium before taking the plunge

fasthonda
20-08-2007, 06:29 PM
Whatever people may say about the Euro CTR it does have a high topend speed.

http://i12.tinypic.com/4vd1sn8.jpg

The LEGAL speed attained was on an Autobahn.
As we are all aware this particular speed is extremely dangerous and illegal on
Australian public Highways and roads.:)

Chris_typer
20-08-2007, 06:32 PM
Thats off the tap...hate to see a car pull infront of him..like someone did to me today and almost locked up.

yfin
20-08-2007, 08:43 PM
^^ The CTR speedo is questionable in terms of accuracy. On the Wheels test the speedo was showing 100kph and the car was only doing 92kph! That is terrible accuracy and would mean that that 250kph is closer to an actual speed of 230kph.

aaronng
20-08-2007, 08:51 PM
^^ The CTR speedo is questionable in terms of accuracy. On the Wheels test the speedo was showing 100kph and the car was only doing 92kph! That is terrible accuracy and would mean that that 250kph is closer to an actual speed of 230kph.

I think the error is because of the tyre's rolling diameter.

yfin
20-08-2007, 09:03 PM
I think the error is because of the tyre's rolling diameter.

But the CTR wears the same 18` size shoes in the UK? If that is the case Honda was silly not to get the speedo in accordance with the tyre set up for the vehicle.

aaronng
20-08-2007, 09:43 PM
But the CTR wears the same 18` size shoes in the UK? If that is the case Honda was silly not to get the speedo in accordance with the tyre set up for the vehicle.
Just as inaccurate in the UK then. :)

slipangle
21-08-2007, 09:23 AM
I'm in a love hate relationship with my FN2R, love it because its great new and has that wow factor especially to my non-honda frens, but in the back of my mind its a 2nd class typeR behind the FD2R. I don't need cruise control or dual climate control. I need LSD and brembos and +20hp! I didn't buy a dc5r or dc2r because i don't like 2nd hand cars and old interiors. The perfect car to me would be a fd2r in a fn2 shell, wotcha guys think?

I reckon that, in the short term, Honda have satisfied what they think to be a need to shift product, and that in the short term, people will be wowed by the "wow" factor of something new. BUT, unless the product has integrity, then whether that product will have enduring appeal and status will be weighed by more than the initial gloss of something new.

Do I think that Honda did a decent job with the FN2R? Yes. Decent.

Do I think that Honda did an exceptional job which stands out from it's competitors in an exceptional way in which Honda (with "the power of dreams" and with "everything they've learned from racing") should be? No.

In the long term, to me, this car does not capitalise on what the Type R brand should be. However, in the long term, it will be a blip, like a momentary lapse of concentration in the history of Honda's "best efforts". The reason I feel it is blip is because Honda have shown us they ARE still capable of producing something like the FD2R, which is the sort of product which will keep the heritage of Type R going, and is a good sign that Honda have not become a bunch of accounting/marketing led decision makers focused on capturing the masses with delivering what it thinks the masses want (at this point in time) - comfort, gadgets, styling.

Integrity of the product will be what bolsters the brand. Otherwise, if you slap Type R to anything "just sporty" without outstanding credentials to back it up, Type R will eventually mean nothing, and that's sad, because it is a valuable attribute for Honda, and certainly, when executed well, means a great deal to a lot of people who respect the brand.

I bet you regret canvassing for an opinion now! :)

Chris_typer
21-08-2007, 09:32 AM
Actually I just think that people who have bought the car, myself included, should just be happy with what it is..there is no point saying it should have this, its should that, because at the end of the day it gets you no where. Yes it probably does need +20hp..when your racing a GTi or MPS..but for everyday driving do you really notice it that much? And does it really feel that slow? I dont think, well certainly not for me. I've got mates with fast nissan's etc and yes they probably would beat the FN2 but they still drull over my car, where as I probably wouldn't look twice at an MPS or GTi.

6ary
21-08-2007, 11:49 AM
Actually I just think that people who have bought the car, myself included, should just be happy with what it is..there is no point saying it should have this, its should that, because at the end of the day it gets you no where. Yes it probably does need +20hp..when your racing a GTi or MPS..but for everyday driving do you really notice it that much? And does it really feel that slow? I dont think, well certainly not for me. I've got mates with fast nissan's etc and yes they probably would beat the FN2 but they still drull over my car, where as I probably wouldn't look twice at an MPS or GTi.

Yeah, i agree with what you're saying and I should be happy with what I've got. Looks like I'll have to slap on I/H/E, a BBK and a 1.5 way LSD. Now.. just have to find people to contribute to my fund.

GupZ
21-08-2007, 07:28 PM
Actually I just think that people who have bought the car, myself included, should just be happy with what it is..there is no point saying it should have this, its should that, because at the end of the day it gets you no where. Yes it probably does need +20hp..when your racing a GTi or MPS..but for everyday driving do you really notice it that much? And does it really feel that slow? I dont think, well certainly not for me. I've got mates with fast nissan's etc and yes they probably would beat the FN2 but they still drull over my car, where as I probably wouldn't look twice at an MPS or GTi.

:thumbsup:

EuroAccord13
22-08-2007, 04:35 PM
I just went for a test drive of the FN CTR this morning and here are my brief thoughts...

NO WAY THEY COULD BE DOING THESE TIMES THAT MOTOR MAGAZINE CLAIMED BELOW:

0-100km in 7.7 sec
0-400m in 15.5 @ 148.4kph
0-1000m in 28.1 sec @ 189.7kph
80-120 (3rd) 4.8 sec
100km - 0 in 37.8 metres

The car definitely accelerated faster than the claimed 7.7 seconds... SERIOUS!

I was impressed by the car's handling, the stiff suspension (Similar to Tein SS) and positive steering feel is top notch, no understeer into hard corners, it just sits and steers very sharply then you power through out of the corner.. AMAZING!

The SEATS!! THE SEATS!!! I want the SEATS!

Contrary to the power delivery of VTEC engines, the CTR has very linear delivery and you don't actually feel the "VTEC Yo" feeling.. It just goes all the way and pass the 8000RPM redline..

Everyone knows about the interesting VTEC light feature.. It's cool but I hardly took notice of it... Most of the time, you will be looking at the electronic speedo climb...and climb... and climb... and climb... Oh and it brakes damm well too.... You can read in MPH or KMH

Rear passenger seats are rather spacious for a hatch, boot space is ok, glovebox is long and deep.....

Being built from the UK, the indicator stalk is on the left and it's rather sensitive... irritated me at times..

It comes with dual climate control air-con and I like the fact that the passenger controls are on the doors... For the driver however, it's a bit of a stretch to reach the controls next to the steering wheel.

Car feels solid hence the weight....




What I don't like....

The buttons... It's the type that after you press it, it comes back out slower..

The controls... it's all over the place....

The rain sensor.. It's too far out and too bulky... And the hole they cut on the roof lining to run the rain sensor wire looks like it was done by a six year old kid, I checked with 3 other CTRs and all had the same problem...

I'm not keen on the side mirror as well LOL...

Display monitors are all over the place LOL!

I don't like the rectangular LCD display that is slapped right in front of the tacho... Looks out of place.. And the display of people in the car on the LCD looks like hands rather than plan view of people in the car LOL!

I think this will make a good track car outside of the JDM FD CTR that is.. But on a serious note, it's the closest R we can get now....

All for $43500 driveaway.... mmmmmmmmmm....

sitta
22-08-2007, 05:06 PM
wow you have great attention to detail never thought of some of the things you said even i own a type r

Chris_typer
22-08-2007, 05:30 PM
wow you have great attention to detail never thought of some of the things you said even i own a type r

times two for that matter..glad to see you enjoy it as much as we do and that you actually go test it out for yourself instead of believing what you read.

Nepolian
22-08-2007, 06:32 PM
times two for that matter..glad to see you enjoy it as much as we do and that you actually go test it out for yourself instead of believing what you read.


Times three.......I test drove it recently and its not that bad. Compared to my EP3, it feels abit heavy but performance wise it is still strong. Pefrormance still very similar.

It may be in the same class as the GTI, MPS etc...but I think there is no substitute for a N/A that can rev to 8500rpm+, except for maybe big turbo with 8500rpm+:D

Reading that results of a magazine only puts numbers onto paper, but it does not give you the experience of driving it. Numbers does not always mean bad car or a drive.

I drove a MPS and considered buying one. Great power fair interior, good looks. Driving it put me off because of the torque steer and bad ride. Love the car but wouldnt own it. Know what I mean...?

Cheers

MKI4EVA
22-08-2007, 07:33 PM
we'll see if the grass is greener in 18 months time when the FD comes.

happy/safe driving either way.

Pumped
23-08-2007, 11:08 AM
Im not sure i agree with the SS winning, i have no doubt there a Fast car..
I drive a VE SS more then i drive my euro, no doubt its quick but when you start pushing it hard it feels as big as it is, it feels high and the seats dont really offer enough support..
Its a nice car, but personally id go for an evo or something that feels sporty over the SS.

aaronng
23-08-2007, 01:03 PM
Even so, I reckon the VE SS handles better than the Euro even if it is huge.

Pumped
23-08-2007, 01:10 PM
No doubt

yfin
23-08-2007, 10:11 PM
I drive a VE SS more then i drive my euro, no doubt its quick but when you start pushing it hard it feels as big as it is, it feels high and the seats dont really offer enough support..

funny you say that because I feel like the SS drives like a much smaller car. Just the way it corners and steers is more like a smaller car.

Good video on drive here to see it handle

http://media.drive.com.au/?rid=21095

GupZ
24-08-2007, 12:46 PM
Everytime when i saw a SS on the street, i though they are police....LOL

Pumped
24-08-2007, 12:52 PM
funny you say that because I feel like the SS drives like a much smaller car. Just the way it corners and steers is more like a smaller car.

Good video on drive here to see it handle

http://media.drive.com.au/?rid=21095


I think my main complaint is the seats, they dont really do very well at holding you in place, the VE i drive has leather seats and you kinda find yourself sliding around a bit, it'd be a much nicer drive with some semi bucket seats.

yfin
24-08-2007, 05:26 PM
I think my main complaint is the seats, they dont really do very well at holding you in place, the VE i drive has leather seats and you kinda find yourself sliding around a bit, it'd be a much nicer drive with some semi bucket seats.

ahh I have cloth seats so they are fine around corners.

mr_pap
10-09-2007, 12:14 PM
I just realised something on the FN2R delivered to AUS. The one that we receive has a kerb weight 1345Kg based off the Honda AU site (http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Home/Showroom/Civic+Type+R/Specifications/)

The Honda UK site claims kerb weight to be at a lighter 1267Kg.

Could there be any explanation for this?:confused:

Perhaps this is why the test revealed such a high 0-100 time.

Nepolian
10-09-2007, 02:20 PM
Correct me if I am wrong...but I think the AUSD one is a GT spec with more goodies.

aaronng
10-09-2007, 02:45 PM
I just realised something on the FN2R delivered to AUS. The one that we receive has a kerb weight 1345Kg based off the Honda AU site (http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/connect/internet/Honda.com.au/Home/Showroom/Civic+Type+R/Specifications/)

The Honda UK site claims kerb weight to be at a lighter 1267Kg.

Could there be any explanation for this?:confused:

Perhaps this is why the test revealed such a high 0-100 time.

The Wheels Magazine test was carried out with 1 driver and 1 passenger. Not sure about Motor Magazine though.

Anyway, yes, we get the CTR GT, which has the dual climate control and other luxuries, making it heavier than the normal CTR.

Philip Lee
10-09-2007, 03:05 PM
1267kg for a base CTR is actually less than the quoted weight of 1270kg (with air) for the FD2R. so the extra 78kg is the price to pay for creature comfort. unfortunately that's what the competitors have and what most buyers want these days.

with the 17kw diff (165 vs 148) FN2R isn't as far off from the FD2R as many ppl think. at the end of the day FD2R will need to be detuned when it gets here so the main diff is the LSD/Brembo/styling and price.

Nepolian
11-09-2007, 05:37 PM
All you guys with the new CTRs should go out to the race strip and get an official 1/4 mile time?. See if you can better the times that Wheels and the rest gets.

lukits01
11-09-2007, 05:59 PM
All you guys with the new CTRs should go out to the race strip and get an official 1/4 mile time?. See if you can better the times that Wheels and the rest gets.

Yea Just tried yesterday
feels like Ive let the team down a bit
my car has LSD+clutch+flywheel
and only managed 15.5

I suspect its more my lack of skill rather than the car ahhaha
first time at the drags with manual car

also put it on the weightbridge, the car had full tank of fuel + toolbox and various other crap, but also have changed the wheels to CE28N of same size and it weight up at 1330Kg

Nepolian
11-09-2007, 06:02 PM
Yea Just tried yesterday
feels like Ive let the team down a bit
my car has LSD+clutch+flywheel
and only managed 15.5

I suspect its more my lack of skill rather than the car ahhaha
first time at the drags with manual car

Lookin good, cant get great ET's the first time. Get the hang of it bout the third time. Did you do the usual and cleaned out the car, low tyre pressure etc.....

lukits01
11-09-2007, 07:13 PM
Yea I did, took out as much as I can from the boot
lowered tyre pressure to 20psi

haven't gotten used to slipping the clutch in
these 18" tyres dont help either

Chris_typer
11-09-2007, 07:34 PM
Yeah well I heading over in about a week..so yeah I'll post as soon as I do...

sitta
12-09-2007, 11:14 AM
where are you heading to chris? can i come? lol i just dont know how to get to the track...

Nepolian
12-09-2007, 01:25 PM
How many people in Syd hear that have CTR who can go out on Wed?? as in the 26th?? If its on then??

Chris_typer
12-09-2007, 04:34 PM
where are you heading to chris? can i come? lol i just dont know how to get to the track...

Yeah were going eastern creek raceway..you know were that is?

Chris_typer
12-09-2007, 07:57 PM
How many people in Syd hear that have CTR who can go out on Wed?? as in the 26th?? If its on then??

Yeah well thats when I'm going...so maybe a few of us..

preludacris
19-10-2007, 05:29 AM
hrm, i've grown to love the new ctr, though it does seem the performance lacks somewhat.

From what i have heard, the engine is pretty amazing, much better than the audm dc5r, though serzly, does the fn2 really need dual zone climate control ???

You think its possible when/if the FD2R comes to AUS, the fn2r will be labelled Type S ?? coz as much as i love it, i think essentially thats what it is. I mean, if i was after a daily car, yeah fn2 Type S for sure, i'd love one. but the label of Type R is maybe a bit much... ESPECIally now i hear of 78kg of creature comforts, dual climate control included, wtf on a type R ??

preludacris
19-10-2007, 05:33 AM
oh and Chris_typer , ur comments really make the fn2R sound like a Type S lol.


woops sorry, brought this thread back from the dead.

Philip Lee
19-10-2007, 08:52 AM
well unfortunately i think the FN2R is chasing the Golf GTI which has tons more features than the FN2R as it is now.

i think calling it Type S is a wrong. afterall it has the red top K20A. Euro R would be a more fitting name.

VT1-R
19-10-2007, 10:44 AM
see.. i did the thread on Ek4 vs FN2 which got deleted of coz..lol.. FN2 0-100 is only 7.7s... an Ek4 with I/h/e ctr cams,spoon flywheel,exedy clutch etc.. can at least keep up right.. sure be able to do flat 8s at least.. so tat prove my point that the new type R heavy body is holding it behind.. the Ek9 is still the best type R!!

jus a comment.. dun take it seriously.

aaronng
19-10-2007, 11:03 AM
see.. i did the thread on Ek4 vs FN2 which got deleted of coz..lol.. FN2 0-100 is only 7.7s... an Ek4 with I/h/e ctr cams,spoon flywheel,exedy clutch etc.. can at least keep up right.. sure be able to do flat 8s at least.. so tat prove my point that the new type R heavy body is holding it behind.. the Ek9 is still the best type R!!

jus a comment.. dun take it seriously.

Even a family car with I/H/E, cams, flywheel, clutch can be quicker than a stock EK9. :) You can't compare modded to stock.

Philip Lee
19-10-2007, 11:23 AM
0-100km/h times is over rated.

many people complained that factory claim for FN2R is 6.6sec and claims it's BS.

afaik 6.6sec is 0-60mph which does not equal to 0-100km/h. the 2nd gear is just shy on 100km/h and would require change to 3rd which loses time.

0-400m or 1/4 miles are a better indication for standing start.

Philip Lee
19-10-2007, 11:25 AM
the Ek9 is still the best type R!!

no way. THE best type R is this NSX-R :p

http://www.motorcities.com/media/image/640/05E88341705921A/2005-Honda-NSX-R-GT-A-640.jpeg

preludacris
19-10-2007, 02:19 PM
what is the rev limiter for new fn2 ? i think the redline is 8400??

maybe honda got that 0-100 time takn it to full rev limiter in 2nd? but i thought the gear ratio's were shorter than that...

Chris_typer
19-10-2007, 03:03 PM
Yeah redline is 8400.

Philip Lee
19-10-2007, 03:29 PM
maybe honda got that 0-100 time takn it to full rev limiter in 2nd? but i thought the gear ratio's were shorter than that...

iirc 2nd doesn't hit 100km/h. to stay in 2nd would means the car was bourcing off the limiter.

Omotesando
19-10-2007, 08:30 PM
Yes its a good point that ppl always emphasis too much on the 0-100 or 0-60mph figures.

It depends a lot on the gearing ratios, and 2ndly also a FWD's 0-100kph is bound to suffer due to a poorer launch than a RWD or a 'powerful enough' AWD launch.

An EK4 or EK9 will probably lack torque to launch very well, but then again it is lighter. All in all, isn't it not surprising that most Honda vehicles with 4 cyclinders and VTEC have pretty similar performance figures regardless? Only exception is S2000, which is very obviously quicker.

Even a stock EK4 does 7.7-7.8s so I don't see how a modded one can't beat the FN2. I've driven stock EK4s and then slightly progresively modded EK4s, there is a whole world of difference especially with top end relative to stock. The B16s aren't well known for no reason.

Regardless the Aust CTR already has enough power to overcome its chassis limits. And knowing that it isn't even that fast or powerful, even if u modded it and made it faster 'down the track' (no pun intended), it won't really do much to its balance and overall performance.

As I re-emphasize, I reckon the Type-R is about Balance, so you get max fun.