Camber kits (and poor design)

[Zdster]

I would like to make people aware of the potential issues that can be faced with camber kits. First we should start by discussing what is camber? From Whitelines website:

"Camber is the inclination of the wheel from the vertical when viewed from the front. When the top of the wheel leans out you have positive camber, lean in equal’s negative camber."

Now as many of you are aware when you put on new wheels or you lower your car or even hitting a pothole or curb can push your camber out. Now in most instances this is not a big deal, but when a car is lowered significantly camber can become quite harsh. To alleviate the effects of camber you turn to a camber kit which can allow for adjustment outside of the parametres of the normal car settings.

Rear camber kits can range anywhere from adding additional washers to 'proper kits' that are sold on the market.

Front camber kits are a bit more complicated. The point of this thread is to bring awareness to some of the poor designs on the market and the potential issues that have arisen.

Here is what a camber kit looks like:
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/5499/skunk2frontcamberhd3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The metal silver piece (the ball joint) is adjustable so that it slides back and forth (therefore adjusting the camber). On either end of the metal piece are two bolts that lock the camber angle in place. One of the main problems identified with this design is that the channels that the bolts sit in are made of only a small amount of metal and have been known to bend or break. Skunk2 released a revision to their kit which now tries to stiffen up the area and stop the ball joint ripping out.

This thread was just to bring awareness to you all about the kits on the market and to research them well before committing. I have attached some links below to show some real world examples:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=762468
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1767312
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=635008
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1876321
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1560685
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2034061
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1541857

P.S. camber does not effect tire wear at the same rate toe does.

[SiReal]

you are a king.

[LXRY]

I would like to make people aware of the potential issues that can be faced with camber kits. First we should start by discussing what is camber? From Whitelines website:

"Camber is the inclination of the wheel from the vertical when viewed from the front. When the top of the wheel leans out you have positive camber, lean in equal’s negative camber."

Now as many of you are aware when you put on new wheels or you lower your car or even hitting a pothole or curb can push your camber out. Now in most instances this is not a big deal, but when a car is lowered significantly camber can become quite harsh. To alleviate the effects of camber you turn to a camber kit which can allow for adjustment outside of the parametres of the normal car settings.

Rear camber kits can range anywhere from adding additional washers to 'proper kits' that are sold on the market.

Front camber kits are a bit more complicated. The point of this thread is to bring awareness to some of the poor designs on the market and the potential issues that have arisen.

Here is what a camber kit looks like:
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/5499/skunk2frontcamberhd3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The metal silver piece (the ball joint) is adjustable so that it slides back and forth (therefore adjusting the camber). On either end of the metal piece are two bolts that lock the camber angle in place. One of the main problems identified with this design is that the channels that the bolts sit in are made of only a small amount of metal and have been known to bend or break. Skunk2 released a revision to their kit which now tries to stiffen up the area and stop the ball joint ripping out.

This thread was just to bring awareness to you all about the kits on the market and to research them well before committing. I have attached some links below to show some real world examples:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=762468
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1767312
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=635008
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1876321
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1560685
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2034061
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1541857

P.S. camber does not effect tire wear at the same rate toe does.

Are Eibach camber kits ok Zdster ? all above links point to skunk2 being no good. I was told that Ingnalls was the choice of many especially euro's. I got eibach's at a good price. Heard problems with kmac creaking noises too...

thanks for the heads up btw :thumbsup:

[SiReal]

Hey Shen,

It mainly depends on the design. If its for a euro, i think the ingalls, eibach kits have ball joint replacements as well as the fork type. Please note these only apply to the fronts.

So... if you stick to the traditinoal ball joint full replacement, u should be ok (i've never read of any issues with that design).

Ingalls and SPC are probably the two most popular kits in the states. I bought the SPC over the ingalls due to the single control arm change vs the double arm change. for the 6th gen at least. For the rears only for me.

[tseesinngwailo]

I have just put a set like this on my DA, have not come across any issues yet, the tracks seem a bit thicker on the sides than what i can see in your pictures, but its a good idea to check regulqarly, my car is a daily driver too. Thanks for the info, good to see someone taking the time to research, Thanks

[Zdster]

As SiReal said, it really depends on the design. Here is another camber kit for a civic which eliminates the issue altogether:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wMTc1MDA4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D

[LXRY]

Wow you've opened my eyes didn't think there wherre so many different designs, thanks Zdster ;)

[panda[cRx]]

good to see you preaching in the right place now

[bennjamin]

TOE wears tyres out quicker than CAMBER.
If your car is low enough to warrant such a kit ~ why not just rotate your tyres every 5k ?

[Zdster]

TOE wears tyres out quicker than CAMBER.
If your car is low enough to warrant such a kit ~ why not just rotate your tyres every 5k ?

Agreed and I did mention that right at the end. It just seems that most people throw a camber kit on just for the sake of it and if they were going to do that should be informed about how they are designed.

[DNYALL]

hmm, i just recieved my skunk2 pro series front camber arms in the mail...:o should i be worried........From all those links u posted up it seems that it was just the normal skunk2 camber arms that broke, not the pro series ones. oh well. we will see what happens once they are put in :thumbsup:
and i also just ordered a Blox rear camber kit...hmmm. I guess i will wait and see if mine breaks. Hope not!!

[e240]

No Bending loads on this Rear Camber kit
http://www.teammfactory.com/images/products/rearcamberkit.jpg

No weak 4 bolts across a thin metal strip on this front camber kit.
http://www.teammfactory.com/images/products/frontcamberkit.jpg

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72736

[dynosaur]

As SiReal said, it really depends on the design. Here is another camber kit for a civic which eliminates the issue altogether:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wMTc1MDA4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D

does this front camber kit suit for DC2R ? :confused:

where could we get this camber kit if I m interesting on it ..?

thanks... :)

[riruiz_88]

here are some by J's Racing, they are similar to skunk2 design. they seem to be thicker though. gotta admit these do look the good

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t18/riruiz_88/WriteIMG.asp.jpg

[dynosaur]

here are some by J's Racing, they are similar to skunk2 design. they seem to be thicker though. gotta admit these do look the good

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t18/riruiz_88/WriteIMG.asp.jpg

all r ball bearing type ? not poly stuffs ?

coz I m looking for ball bearing type... thanks

[Zdster]

does this front camber kit suit for DC2R ? :confused:

where could we get this camber kit if I m interesting on it ..?

thanks... :)

The ones posted above are "Mr Alex's" but I am not sure if they suit the dc5.


here are some by J's Racing, they are similar to skunk2 design. they seem to be thicker though. gotta admit these do look the good

^ Personally, I would stay away from anything that looks like the above design, but that is just IMO. The other problem that some people are facing is that the rubber boot of the ball joint has also been known to fail.

[czy_sol87]

good info mate:D

[riruiz_88]

Personally, I would stay away from anything that looks like the above design, but that is just IMO. The other problem that some people are facing is that the rubber boot of the ball joint has also been known to fail.

they also do upgraded ball joints for control arms. im just tryin to help out, throwin some ideas out

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t18/riruiz_88/balljoint.jpg

[FR33K]

damnnnn you really had me worried with this thread coz i have this camber kit.. but taking a second look you'll notice that mine has been reinforced in the weak area.. lucky.. thought i wasted my money :P

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/FR33K/2134234234.jpg

[e240]

they also do upgraded ball joints for control arms. im just tryin to help out, throwin some ideas out

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t18/riruiz_88/balljoint.jpg

Thats not an upgrade to the Ball joint on the Upper control arm.
The picture you've shown is a roll centre adjuster/correction (For lowered cars) which mounts to the Hub and goes into the lower control arm.

[FR33K]

on the topic of ball joints.. whats the implications of not having sufficient grease in there or if the boot rips ?

[e240]

on the topic of ball joints.. whats the implications of not having sufficient grease in there or if the boot rips ?

The boot usually keeps the grease in and its not something you'd take out to service. If the boot rips, that means water and gunk can get in which would
then eventually stuff up the operation of the ball joint.

[FR33K]

ahh ok.. the thing that im worried about is that i installed the camber kit without greasing it up (assuming it came pre-greased from factory).. and its too big of a job to pull it back apart.. especially after getting everything aligned..

[2002 TeGgY]

whats the best rear camber kit for DC5? my sister's car has crazy negative camber and it chews through tires like nothing else...

[riruiz_88]

Thats not an upgrade to the Ball joint on the Upper control arm.
The picture you've shown is a roll centre adjuster/correction (For lowered cars) which mounts to the Hub and goes into the lower control arm.

oh tru:eek: my bad man, i couldnt tell on the site what it was for and it looked like a straight fit for the upper control arm. would u suggest changing the original one for the j's racing? or is this a useless mod?

[e240]

would u suggest changing the original one for the j's racing? or is this a useless mod?

Sorry, you talking about the Roll Centre or the Front Camber Kit?

For Roll Centre, yeah, its probably worth it if you've got a lower than lowered car.. :-p

For Camber, yeah, again if you've got a lowered car and want to correct the camber (lowered by 3 inches usually gives you 2degress of Negative camber) , or if you're tuning your suspension setup to suit tracks.

My preference, I'd stay away from the front camber kits that have the moveable ball joints (Like Skunk, including Js.) and the ones where you have an eccentric nut at the strut mounting. But my opinion is biased having use spherical bearing ones.. :-p

[riruiz_88]

oh i was referring to the roll centre adjuster. wat front camber kit would you recommend then? and also what rear camber kit would you recommend? with the rose joints (spherical joints) are these more prone to tears cause it wouldnt have much flex right as well they are more expensive?

[Zdster]

whats the best rear camber kit for DC5? my sister's car has crazy negative camber and it chews through tires like nothing else...

I wouldnt. I would recommend that she gets an alignment done and make sure that the 'toe' specs are set as close as possible to zero. As said previously, camber should not cause you to eat through tires.

[2002 TeGgY]

I wouldnt. I would recommend that she gets an alignment done and make sure that the 'toe' specs are set as close as possible to zero. As said previously, camber should not cause you to eat through tires.

so where do you recommend to get this done? would your local pedders susspension shop do it or would we have to go honda dealers?

[Zdster]

so where do you recommend to get this done? would your local pedders susspension shop do it or would we have to go honda dealers?

Any wheel/tire shop will be able to do it for you. You just want a basic wheel alignment and get a print out of before and after results.

[2002 TeGgY]

but how does wheel allignment get rid of negative camber/toeing? the had plenty of wheel allignments done and its still 'toeing'

[Zdster]

but how does wheel allignment get rid of negative camber/toeing? the had plenty of wheel allignments done and its still 'toeing'

With a wheel alignment, the operator takes a measure of the existing car specs and adjustments are then made. Have a read here:
http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm

On most (if not all?) Hondas 'toe' is adjustable but other things like camber are not (hence the reason why people by camber kits).

If you still have toe after the wheel alignment has been done that it probably has been done incorrectly and you need to find somewhere that actually knows what they are doing. At any rate, try and get the before and after results of any alignment so you can compare and see what changes have been made.

[pornstar]

has she hit the kerb or something? an alignment done should have fixed those problems, or they should have mentioned that something is bent or broken causing it to do so.




but how does wheel allignment get rid of negative camber/toeing? the had plenty of wheel allignments done and its still 'toeing'

[dynosaur]

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wMTc1MDA4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D

does any1 know where could I get this ball bearing front camber for DC2R ?

thanks in advance

[2002 TeGgY]

has she hit the kerb or something? an alignment done should have fixed those problems, or they should have mentioned that something is bent or broken causing it to do so.

na man, she didn't hit a curb. ill take it to pedders soon and speak to them

[pornstar]

my advice is to definately take it to someone else if your not confident in their alignment procedure/work.

Everytime I have aligned something I would look at what the current setup is and what is "out" of spec. Usually when something is noticeably out, then it tells you something is wrong with the specific part or parts. Repeated alignments isnt going to fix your issue if your problem is part of something bigger ie possibly bent arms etc. Did you buy the car new?

[DLO01]

Just some feedback from me....

I have Skunk2 UCA's all round on my ITR

I inspected my front UCA's on the weekend and they are perfectly fine.

I have a Structural background and the design looks sound to me.

The problem that I can see, and I am not sure if it has been mentioned. Is that if a car is excessively lowered, when you hit a bump, the UCA can and will hit the top of the tower, thus the force pushing from the wheel through the UCA and causing the damage and failure.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofIMG_9034.jpg

[Zdster]

Just some feedback from me....

I have Skunk2 UCA's all round on my ITR

I inspected my front UCA's on the weekend and they are perfectly fine.

I have a Structural background and the design looks sound to me.

The problem that I can see, and I am not sure if it has been mentioned. Is that if a car is excessively lowered, when you hit a bump, the UCA can and will hit the top of the tower, thus the force pushing from the wheel through the UCA and causing the damage and failure.


Good stuff. I am glad they are holding up. They look like the redesigned camber kit and not the original design. You are right though about excessive lowering (and from what i have read from the US forums) is that it can destroy the top of the suspension towers.

Keep an eye out on the boot as well. Its hard to tell, but they looks like the boots are fine.

[e240]

whats the best rear camber kit for DC5? my sister's car has crazy negative camber and it chews through tires like nothing else...


MFactory Spherical Bearing Camber Kits for the DC5

http://www.teammfactory.com/images/products/rearcamberkitep.jpg

[civicem1]

I've got tein flex coilovers, probably about 2.5" - 3" dump and running these skunk2 camber arms aswell. They're starting to make holes in the upper panel (under bonnet) also. Wouldn't reccomend them. Gotta find something different to stop this problem. Will post up pictures tomorrow when I get a chance.

[DLO01]

It does not mater what arms you put on, its going to do the same thing if your low.

[civicem1]

Having trouble posting pics..

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/7843/post1ga2.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=post1ga2.jpg)

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4203/post2il8.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=post2il8.jpg)

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1371/post3tk2.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=post3tk2.jpg)

The camber kits are knocking up against the chassy resulting in formation of holes underneath the bonnet. Sorry about the pics, I've never uploaded images before. Wouldn't reccommend going for skunk2 camber kits (for civics anyways) if you were going to lower your car approximately 2.5 - 3" with correcting the camber to standard allignment.

[Zdster]

having trouble posting pics..


What were your camber/toe settings without/prior to the camber kit?

[civicem1]

What were your camber/toe settings without/prior to the camber kit?

I had 3.5 degrees on the fronts and 3 degrees on the rears. They've all been adjusted now. I'm running 0.5 degrees on the front and 0 degrees on the rear in regards to camber. Dunlop checked the toe settings and said they were fine. I'm not too sure what the exact values are.

[DLO01]

Come on, you can't bag Skunk2 arms for that. Sure you might get a few more mm room from another product (different design), but the main reason is that your too low.

[civicem1]

Come on, you can't bag Skunk2 arms for that. Sure you might get a few more mm room from another product (different design), but the main reason is that your too low.

i've seen other cars lower, they don't seem to have this problem?

[DLO01]

What I am saying though, is that nothing is changing. You just simply putting another arm on. This 'distance' from the middle of your wheel to the top of the Arm remains the same. Like I said, sure you might get a few mm out of another product, but the main reason is that your too low.

[civicem1]

Yep I know that. When I was running ek9 arms, I never had this problem. I only swapped over to skunk2 arms to correct my camber allignment as i was chewing through tyres faster than i could replace them. When analysing the arms, the main problem appears to be the positioning of the 4 main screws which are used to tighten the arm to the correct allignment. When the arm is knocked up, the 4 screws transfer all the energy to the chassy of the car resulting in the formation of punctured holes underneath the bonnet (small surface area). To avoid this problem, try to find an arm which has a flat superior surface so that if the arm knocks up against the chassy, the force is spread out evenly across the surface area. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ksport-Front-Camber-Kit-Civic-92-95-Integra-94-01-DC2_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33583QQihZ014QQitem Z330175940763QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[DLO01]

Those K sport ones like like my Skunk2 ones. I am not sure what Skunk 2 arms you have but my 4 bolts on the plate are flush with the plate.

Yes you might get a little more clearance from the stock arms, also the stock arms are 'thinner' than the square Skunk2 items, maybe this is why is did not happen. But it also depends on how big a bump you hit then and now.

You can't dis the Skunk2 item. It is perfectly fine and does the job that its intended to. Its when a car is excecively lowered that can damage the arm and the camber adjusting tracks, which is what this thread is about.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofIMG_9023.jpg

[civicem1]

Ahhhh dammmmmmn! I knew i should've paid a bit more for the pro series. The ones I have aren't pro series and do NOT have that metal plate. Them skunk2 look fine to me, but i wouldn't reccommend the non-pro ones.

[DLO01]

Yeh, ok man, I see now.

Seems like the revised Pro series are the much better item then. :thumbsup:

Sorry, glad we sorted it out though.

[Zdster]

As DL001 said, sounds like you are running the older style arms. I would definetly try to replace them.

[BlitZ]

great thread..

are the ball type ones harder to adjust and more time consuming?

[BlitZ]

any comments on ball type stuff like this stuff on egay..
apart from boot tearing?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/96-00-HONDA-CIVIC-FRONT-REAR-ADJUSTABLE-JDM-CAMBER-KIT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33581QQihZ001QQitem Z110180619204QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[dynosaur]

As SiReal said, it really depends on the design. Here is another camber kit for a civic which eliminates the issue altogether:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/i=wMTc1MDA4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D

does anybody know where could we get this camber kit ?

suit DC2R use ?

thanks for the info's :angel:

[bennjamin]

does anybody know where could we get this camber kit ?

suit DC2R use ?

thanks for the info's :angel:

that kit is for a EK only.
DC and EG use a slightly different front upper control arm, mounting points to the chassis are facing UP instead of SIDEWAYS.

Im sure you can find something similar for a DC2R

[DLO01]

Just some other feedback on the skunk 2 front upper control arms.

Make sure you re-tighten the 4 hex bolts on the sliding plate after 1000kms or so.

I was hearing a clunking sound from mine at slow speed turning and it turns out it was a loose plate in which it was sliding.

The problem is because the arm is painted. This of course over time has compressed and therefore the bolts have come loose.

This is why I always tell people not to paint a mateing surface, like the wheel mounting face on your hub. ;)

[EKVTIR-T]

The skunks design is its flaw.

Some of the other brands use different adjustment set ups which eliminate any weakness in the adjustment mechanism.

[DLO01]

The design of the current front upper control arm is fine and there is no 'weakness' in the adjustment arm. Please read the discussions.

We have discussed in this thread that the 'Pro' (new and revised) is better that the old 'classic' front upper control arm. I have never had a problem with my arms.

Problems will occur with 'both' of these arms if your car is excessivly lowered. When going over a bump the arm will clash under the tower and damage the arm. The photos of damaged Skunk 2 arms shown are a result of this. It does not matter what arm you use, it should not by striking it at all. Some arms have a lower profile than the Skunk item which will help a little.

[EKVTIR-T]

I have read plenty of discussions but thats irrelevant.
The adjustment style on both versions of skunk are far from great.
I understand your need to defend them as your bought them and I know yours are fine but why settle for those if there are other styles which are better designed?
Safety first ey.Why take the risk.

[DLO01]

This is what I am trying to get at. What is 'better design'???

Different manufactures have 'different designs'.

It does not matter what 'design' you have. If your too low, your gonna do damage. Weather you damage your UCA or put a hole through your tower, its not good. How many times do I need to stress this?

Yes I do have these UCA's. Defending the product I am, yes. Have I had a problem with this product, no I haven't. It is just proof that they do work 'perfectly fine' as long as you use them in thier confinds and are not excesivley low, as with any other UCA.

Safety first, don't go to low.

[DLO01]

Sorry man, don't want to sound like a prick. Its not the arms thats the problem, its the height of the car that is the problem.

[dynosaur]

that kit is for a EK only.
DC and EG use a slightly different front upper control arm, mounting points to the chassis are facing UP instead of SIDEWAYS.

Im sure you can find something similar for a DC2R

I did my best knowledge seach around , mayb my knowledge about dc2 is not good enough.

I hope some OzHonda members could show me some guide. thanks in advance :D

personally not prefered Skunk Pro type, coz I did c somr user compalint too much about that type.

I personal prefered that kind of bearing rather then PU type ( coz i could make me take the corner more accurately.

[mku01]

i've been using buddyclub one for a while, don't have the tower hitting problem... prob because my car isn't that low, but i can't put a finger between the wheel and arch..

anyone else using the buddyclub camber kits? i'm yet to encounter any problems but would like to hear from anyone that's used them before

[Zdster]

i've been using buddyclub one for a while, don't have the tower hitting problem... prob because my car isn't that low, but i can't put a finger between the wheel and arch..

anyone else using the buddyclub camber kits? i'm yet to encounter any problems but would like to hear from anyone that's used them before

I havent heard of anyone running these before, but from the photos I have seen online they look similar to the skunk2 models. I would keep my eye on them (especially where the adjustment nuts are on the top). Would be good to hear from those with more of an engineering background though just to confirm my thoughts . . . .

I guess the other point to mention/reinforce in this thread is just because you lower your car/put new wheels on, does not automatically mean that you need a camber kit. If after putting in suspension or wheels one finds that camber is dramatically out then consider buying one of these kits rather than just putting one straight on the car.

[Benson]

Skunk2 Pro plus camber kits are the best i've used so far. We use it on our street/track car. Never had a problem...

We done 5-6 alignment settings with them since... havent faulted.

From looking at the BC design, they should of put the allen key on the other side, makes it easier to change the camber.

[beeza]

Do U need Toe Adjusters/Compensators to adjust the toe? (96 Ek1 Civic)

[teh_mechanic]

Do U need Toe Adjusters/Compensators to adjust the toe? (96 Ek1 Civic)

not too sure what your getting at really.
but if you mean can you adjust toe with stock suspension.....- yes,toe is adjusted by undoing the lock nut on the tie rod and spinning the rod it in or out on its thread

im using skunk2 pro front and rear camber kits.no problems so far.
rears are very good,easy to adjust and lock up very well.

fronts,i took it to pedders (i dont have wheel alignment equipment at work) and they told me they only adjusted the rear because the front was too hard...wtf,so dodgy.
sure,its a bit harder because you have to jack the car up to get to the adjuster allen key bolts,then put it back on the ground to see what the wheel alignment is at.but seriously,i was pissed,i thought they would of atleast called and said it will take a bit longer and cost a bit more,not just - it was too hard.

no faults in the design with skunk2,just that yeh its a bit of a mission to adjust the front,unless any1 else has a good technique?

[angel]

Just to share my kit. My civic EG hatch, Ive got skunk2 Pro in front and rear, it has been in the car for more than 3years, im using 16in. wheel and a finger gap between the tire and wheel arch, lowered spring and bilstein shocks. Its a daily sydney street driver school drop offs and shopping. I go to Heasmans for checks. So far No problems.

[beeza]

Thank Teh mechanic.I see,so their's no advantage in having the toe adjusters?

I will be getting a front and rear camber kit soon,I was just wondering if I need the toe adjusters aswell.

[markoJEK1]

^people usually get aftermarket, tie rod ends ( toe adjuster side) and rack ends, in drift, to allow for bigger degree's at full lock, but for street use like you're saying, would only considering buying new ones if your current ones are stuffed.

[beeza]

Cheers Marko.So we have them stock? :)

[teh_mechanic]

Cheers Marko.So we have them stock? :)

yes we have tie rods that are adjustable from stock to adjust the toe,all cars do.

aftermarket ones allow bigger scope of adjustment,usually used for drifting where crazy wheel alignments are sometimes used etc. no need for this on our cars

[beeza]

Thanks mate!

[eg5civic]

Erm a n00b question here but if i get a set of coilovers with the adjustable tops on them.... will i need a camber kit to adjust camber still...

sorry for the stupid question but i'm just confused about it

[Zdster]

Erm a n00b question here but if i get a set of coilovers with the adjustable tops on them.... will i need a camber kit to adjust camber still...

sorry for the stupid question but i'm just confused about it

When you say coilovers with adjustable tops, what are you referring to? Something with damper adjustments or top hat mounts?

Before you buy a camber kit, make sure that you actually need one.

[emoluv]

Plus one for the pro skunk2 camber kit. I got Bob Janes to adjust mine and it took ages to do as mine was out 5 degrees. Yikes.
The Pro kit was the only one with the most adjustability so it was the only choice but it gasn't given me any issues and I reccommend it.
Also Bob Jane was great in doing a alignment!

[eg5civic]

When you say coilovers with adjustable tops, what are you referring to? Something with damper adjustments or top hat mounts?

Before you buy a camber kit, make sure that you actually need one.

Well i'm assuming they have the top hat mounts

Photo
http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/image_3.asp?product_id=cd01

They are Ksport Kontrol pro's

And yeah thats why i haven't ordered a kit yet as i was gonna order the camber kit when i got the cator kit from whiteline. But if i do need has anyone had any problems with whitelines kit?

[DLO01]

Yeh, you can't adjust camber via the strut tower on your civic. Well you could, but its not going to do anything. Its usually done by the Upper control arm.

[eg5civic]

Thanks for that mate.... well how do whiteline's camber kits rate? I thought may as well support some local aussie made stuff and they seem to know their stuff

[aaronng]

Not sure about their camber kits, but whiteline does outsource their swaybar production to china. :(

[eg5civic]

Not sure about their camber kits, but whiteline does outsource their swaybar production to china. :(

Ah thats never a good thing to hear.... i thought they were a quality australian made product

I read on their site a real handling article and they stated the specs of an old 12 hr bathurst Eg civic..

Would you need camber kits to dial 1.5 degrees of camber in or is that possible with normal control arms?

[teh_mechanic]

Would you need camber kits to dial 1.5 degrees of camber in or is that possible with normal control arms?

cant adjust camber on stock civic arms.
thats why we get camber kits.
camber kit isnt really a good word for it,its pretty much the same arm that you have from stock,but they can be adjusted to change camber

[eg5civic]

cant adjust camber on stock civic arms.
thats why we get camber kits.
camber kit isnt really a good word for it,its pretty much the same arm that you have from stock,but they can be adjusted to change camber

Thanks for that cause i read over whitelines real handling article (is forkin old :P) and they didn't mention anything about needing a camber kit to adjust to their specs

Well looks like i'll be ordering their front and rear camber kit and castor kit....
Should go nicely with ksport coils and ASR brace and swaybar

[beeza]

But like Zdster says you may not even need one.
Zdster PM'ed me this great info:

"Odds are, you probably wont even need a camber kit - as long as you get your toe as close to zero as possible.

If you can get your toe to zero and your camber is roughly even on both sides, then all you need to do is rotate your tyres every 5/10,000km and you should be fine.

My car is lowered at the moment (on pretty hard coilovers) and runs 15's (an ek hatch), my toe is zero and have about -2degrees of camber with no camber kit and is perfect."

Thanks Zdster.Hope U can use it too mate :)

[dsp26]

Gonna add to this...

AVOID THESE ONES for the fronts:
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/9/7/0/8/0/webimg/163403534_tp.jpg


The tightening bolt on the left ALWAYS comes lose regardless how tight you do it up and is dangerous as it dynamically shifts camber on the slightest bumps especially on wet roads. Only suitable for regular trackers who always fiddle with sussy.

The only thing that will redeem that design are spring washers but you can't take that bolt off so nay...

[markoJEK1]

looks like its a nut to me

[dsp26]

looks like its a nut to me

it's not, i have it

[bennjamin]

probably needs a washer under the nut to hold it in place once properly torqued.
(washer spreads and grips....hopefully)
Still dont look like a very safe design tho.

[dsp26]

probably needs a washer under the nut to hold it in place once properly torqued.
(washer spreads and grips....hopefully)
Still dont look like a very safe design tho.

nah it's not safe at all trust me, don't care if any other big name brand makes this but steer clear of it!!!

car drives itself when even 1 of the 4 comes loose... i'd love to be able to put a spring washer on it but design prohibits it.

[beeza]

Thanks for the heads up!

[votek]

so the skunk2 front camber kit is no good for dc2s?

[dsp26]

so the skunk2 front camber kit is no good for dc2s?

Original version = Bad
Revised (PRO series) = Good

[Benson]

Original version = Bad
Revised (PRO series) = Good

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[votek]

revised pro series is it the same one as in the first post

[dsp26]

revised pro series is it the same one as in the first post

no thats the old shit one which Zdster was warning against....

the clamp used in Pro(+) is much better to keep the mounting flat and resist distortion.

I also just checked their website and it seems they have revised the tuner series....

I was also under the impression they widened the inside track where the balljoint slides as i have actually seen some on the net with it... was sure it was the skunk2 pro



TUNER
http://www.skunk2.com/images/s2_lrg_cbr_clamp.jpg


PRO
http://www.skunk2.com/images/s2_lrg_cbr_profile.jpg


PRO Plus
http://www.skunk2.com/images/s2_lrg_cbr_projo.jpg

[bennjamin]

problem is nothing aftermarket can last thru the same heavy impacts that OEM parts can...be careful out there on the roads and track guys !

[dsp26]

problem is nothing aftermarket can last thru the same heavy impacts that OEM parts can...be careful out there on the roads and track guys !

i agree in this case... which makes me believe the adjustable balljoint coupled with the oem upper control arm would be the better way to control front camber.

no way i'd stay pure oem camber parts on a lowered car though....

[vinnY]

can you get separate adjustable ball joints which are safe?

[dsp26]

can you get separate adjustable ball joints which are safe?

will have a lookskie for a few brands tonight... the last set i saw had a similar bolting system like the mount set i posted in post#86

can only be redeemed as 'safe for street' with a spring washer implemented

[vinnY]

you mean post #86, the one you uber not recommend? :p

[dsp26]

you mean post #86, the one you uber not recommend? :p

yeah..

these Buddy Club ones jdmyard sell are good though.... my thorough research has revealed nothing defectable about these:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79103&highlight=camber

[dsp26]

This is the one... i've bought SPC (Special products company) products before and their very high quality...
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/12637619/aview/1168415492151_67320.jpg
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/12637619/aview/67320.jpg
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/12637619/aview/67320_ill_b.jpg
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/12637619/aview/67320_ill_a.jpg

[vinnY]

well i ended up getting the bc front and rear kits for my ek
will get an alignment this week and see how it turns out :)

[zco]

i have the pro plus on my car.. they do their job. does it what its supposed to do

however, when i bought this item brand new, may i say, quality control from skunk2 is FOCKING SHITHOUSE.. one of the arms were bent, and it was because it was welded on crooked.. i had to bash it out with mallet, and bend it, and it finally ended up fitting my car..

front -1
rear -1.3 as i havent rolled guards LOL

saves tyres !

[mr33gts4]

doesnt dat ball joint thing throw the camber adjustments off for the vehicle?

[dsp26]

doesnt dat ball joint thing throw the camber adjustments off for the vehicle?

um.. yes. because with any camber adjusting device, you have to get your car aligned after.

best thing anyone can do after installing them is to 'eye' them for the best possible setting before driving it out to the sussy shop for alignment

[AusAccord]

am thinking to get the SPC Camber Bolt for my RB1 which was lowered abt 25mm, is it good and easy to adjust? can someone has experienced that?

[VTECMACHINE]

What do you guys reakon of the new J's racing design? (http://www.jsracing.co.jp/js3/index.asp?xMODE=SHOP&xSW=3&xBUNRUI=76&xPARENT=65&xSHASHU=7)

[Vtecyo]

Well apart from looking sexy ( cos they are grey with a J's sticker) They seem to be a very similar design. The locking mechanism looks basically the same. Same bracing underneath just with some funny jagged edges, but that dosnt matter.
However obviously that brace? between the back two bolt? Would that act like to washers joined together? And help brand and strengthen it?

Im glad you brought up this thread as I have found some great info
It seems I have done the opposite to many people. After upgrading my sussy ( now have buddyclub N+) and droping my ride height ( no room between guards and rubber ) I am now looking into a camber kit.
This is because I have got really bad tyre wear. To the point where I have a line of wear almost down to the canvas.

I discovered most of the damage just after buying the car( before the upgrade) as it just had medium kings on KYB shocks.

I assumed it was just badly out of alignment and after a new alignment ( with my upgrade ) it would improve. However they are still wearing at a big rate. .

I duno if I need a camber kit or not…

Sorry for my life story.
I just have afew questions.
Earlyer eg5civic asked about adjustable camber top on coilovers... Someone said they pretty much dont do anything ? Are they worth it?

Also, It has been said how easily the camber on ur front wheels can be altered ( run into a kerb or somthing). And thus you get a wheel alignment to fix it. However with a standard set up you cant adjust your camber...

How can you fix / adjust (then they do a wheel alighment ) the camber if its not adjustable...

In reguards to weather i need a camber it or not. According to what has been said. If I have a good alighment ( how do u know if ur getting a good one or not) and the toe is Zero then i shouldnt get any extra wear. However my tyres still wear badly after i had an alighment..... ( havnt checked to see if my sussy or somthing is bent, if thats what ur gonna say)

Finaly. My mate was saying that the bigger rims effects camber and tyre wear. With bigger rims u get smaller profile rubber so the other all Diamiter is the same as stock However the HUB is at a higher position with a larger rim.
Can anyone explain this better ?


Sorry for my confusing write up
thanks alot :)

[geeang]

One thing, camber tops on coilovers have absolutely no effect (shouldn't even be available) for most Hondas. The camber on most Hondas is controlled by the Upper Control Arm, coilovers on DC2's are mounted in a fixed position.

Since your tyres are still wearing quite badly after you've had an alignment then I would assume there is a much more dire problem behind the scenes. I'd get another alignment and get the printout for it as well because the previous alignment could have been a dodgy job.

The front wheels can be 'knocked' a bit out of place with a good kerbing but fixing it just means making sure everything is straight and secure, not really 'adjusting' it.

[Vtecyo]

Yeah i know i need a print out. I had one but i cant seem to find it. Ill continue 2 look. :) cheers

But how and where do they straighten the alighment... Bash the wheel back straight with a hammer ? lol
There is probably some technical method that is hard 2 explain and i wont understand. But it dosnt make sence :P

anways.

[DD2]

Does anyone use Whiteline parts ?

This is what they offer...

http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/products/KCA378.jpg

Description: Camber adj kit - uppr c/arm
Note: 34mm OD bush +/- 1.0 deg

However what confuses me is that their recommended front camber settings are outside their kits range (ie >1 deg of negative camber)


They also have a caster kit

http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/products/KCA301.jpg

Description: Caster adj kit - lwr c/arm
Note: adds < +2.5 deg


Here's also an interesting read from Whiteline....

EG Handling Page 1 (http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/articles/real_handling_32.jpg)

EG Handling Page 2 (http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/articles/real_handling_32.jpg)

[vinnY]

anyone else used the spc control arms (http://www.spcperformance.com/PROD_DIR/SPCPerf_PROD_SEARCH_DYN.cfm?cmd=Cam&cmd2=72160&cmd3=) before?

waiting to get some other parts done before i install the arms and get the alignment done
top nut is specified to be torqued to something like 120ft/lbs and is much thicker than most control arms out there that i've seen

[F.O.B Squad]

Don't want to really change topic but still within discussion.
With adding the Roll Centre Adjusters, of whichever brand, what brands would be good to look at?

I've in previos post the SPC product, but any Australian Distributors?
I was looking at the Buddy Club one and J's Racing but wanted to see if any others to look at.

As for cambers i got a set of Buddy Club front and Skunk2 for the rears both of which haven't been installed yet. Any feedback on either of these?