Euro handling vs 5th Gen Prelude

[V205]

Has anyone here driven or owned a 5th Gen prelude? How does the handling compare with the Euro? Stock vs stock.

[aaronng]

Greyone has a 5th gen, while her mum has the Euro. She can give you a nice comparison. In my opinion, you can turn faster with less understeer in the Prelude. :)

[gReY-oNe]

LMAO aaron :D
hwo u know i was gonna answer to this
:P

then again uve driven my car so u can make teh comparision too

handling wise stock to stock
i actually like the feel of the euro better
maybe cos the euro is alot smoother then the prelude driveing normally so it feels like your in more control

depends alot on the tyres ur car is runnin too
right now me and my mum are runnin pretty much the same tyres quality wise alot of people say the prelude handles just abit better...

and the steerin is slightly more accurate compared to the euro
hence aarons comment about being able to turn faster
umm maybe i shoudl take both cars out for a fang again and get back to u

[aaronng]

I was very surprised that the Prelude could carve a very nice 90 degree corner with little fuss. A stock Euro would have rolled a little first and then cornered in with tyres screeching. Stock, the Lude has stiffer suspension than the Euro. I really did think that my Euro's handling was shit after driving your Lude. LOL

I've changed my suspension and alignment since that time and now I can turn better, sharper, harder and also adjust the steering wheel easily mid corner to adjust my line. Now, the limiting factor is the tyres, not the suspension. :)

[Cartoon]

the lude also has a flatter lower stance than the euro.

[tron07]

One is a 2 door coupe another 4 door sedan... you do the math....

[ginganggooly]

One is a 2 door coupe another 4 door sedan... you do the math....

Your maths might be a little bit flakey mate :p
They're both porky bastards and weigh in at pretty similar figures, however the euro in several generations ahead in terms of torsional rigidity and design.

On paper, i'd chalk up a euro victory.
fwiw - It's been ages since i've driven a fifth gen, but i seem to recall it as feeling fairly similar to my almost stock chassis dc2 vti-r. The euro is heads an shoulders above any stock dc2 vti-r, i even had quicker wakefield lap times (in the euro) to prove it, stock for stock...

[Hans Bond]

depends... the stock lude with atts will surely beat a euro :p

[tron07]

yeah... my maths are not that good :p

[dundas]

mmzm need same tyres on both cars then i can compare... aarons euro with rear sway bar felt very nice ... my car with rear sway bar feels very nice also. It felt as though the euro handled a little better though. but then again.. my tyres SUCKKK

[|N|]

One is a 2 door coupe another 4 door sedan... you do the math....

the number of doors does not determine how good a car handles

does hyuandai coupe handles better then evo9 stock to stock?

u do the math

[IAMVTEC]

One is a 2 door coupe another 4 door sedan... you do the math....

period.

LOL at the people who think Euro can compare to sports cars. A front wheel drive 4 door sedan with chrome window lining as a sports car, haha sure buddy. And Im Michael jackson.

[V205]

I might relay this story to explain why I had the interest of starting this thread:

I had a 2nd hand 2nd Gen prelude (1984 model, bought in 1993 with 118000km, stock 13" rims... :~D to which I proudly enjoyed and owned for 10+ years) which I later upgraded with 14" 1992 Integra RIMS. The rims came with A509 and SIMEX. I put the A509 on the front, My first corner with that upgrade... I felt the car was transformed. Superb steering sharpess and cornering stability that I have never felt with any other car I've ever driven.

Before anyone starts laughing, I wore out those A509 and was shopping for a replacement. That's about the time when the Dunlop FM901 first came out, I thought I'd try something newer so I bought 2 FM901 for the front.

I was running 36 PSI on the A509 and 34 PSI on the Simex. So I requested 36 PSI for the FM901. Driving out of the tyre dealership, after a few normal turns... I was in shock... my handle-like-it's-on-rails car has transformed into the handling of a pregnant lama! I couldn't believe it... the car was bouncing up and down and during cornering.. the steering was wobbling all over the place.

I rang the tyre dealership, the manager tells me I was crazy and to give it a week.

After 1 week on the pregnant lama, I couldn't take it any more. I shelled out for 2 A509 (at a different dealership) to replace the SIMEX for my sanity.... So I put the new A509 on the front and the FM901 at the back. Guess what... handles-like-it's-on-rails is back!

I took it back to the FM901 dealership and told the manager my findings. He still thinks I'm crazy but said that he'll send his foreman to test drive my car with the FM901 on the front and compare it with A509 on the front.

After his test drive with me, he didn't say anything to me but I can see that he was fighting the steering wooble with the FM901. He went back to his manager had a chat behind close doors, the manager came back to me and said they'll swap the FM901 with A509. So I ended up with a full set of A509's on that prelude.

I didn't notice much change with having A509 on the back compared to SIMEX and FM901 though but having them in the front was like night and day.

Anyway, really enjoyed those full set of A509 for like 1-2 years and still had more than 50% thread when I sold it at 255000km for a S15 GT.

The S15 GT came with 16" 205/55/16 RE010 and didn't have the steering sharpness that I felt in the prelude. I change the tyres to Yokohama ES100 with 225/50/16 and still couldn't get the same feel in the steering, although I did enjoy the new experience with rear wheel drive handling and turbo power.

After owning a nissan, I must say I felt that honda was ahead in terms of build quality and engineering and engine smoothness. The gear change feel of my 1984 prelude was better than the 2002 S15. Drove a 2002 BMW 320i and felt the prelude gear change was better too!

Didn't take a lot of convincing when my wife had a baby and the 2005 Euro Lux (with the nice Type-R style enkei rims) was out. Sold the S15 and bought the '05 Euro Lux. It was good to be back in a Honda.

Now back to the steering response, stock Euro handling with the 17" RE040 still doesn't feel as sharp as my prelude with A509 did. Turn-ins and cornering steering stability was still a bit wandering. Put on a Cusco front strut bar and had slight improvement but still not getting the feel I wanted.

Will RE001 be the tyre to bring me back the feeling?? I'd hate to spend $600 for 2 front tyres to find out that they don''t. But hey... they might fix the drift-to-the-right problem.

Anyway, if anyone in Melb (I'm in eastern suburbs) is running RE001 on their stock'ish 17" euro and wouldn't mind me having a sedated drive to feel it. I would much appreaciate it before making the jump myself.

----------------------

Back to the discussion:

- the Gen 5 prelude may feel better because it's a lighter car at around 1350kg? It is definitely a lower ride setup too.

- Gen 2 prelude was around 1000kg... nice chuck about weight.

- S15 was around around 1250kg.

[rawr]

Ummm I'm probably wrong but didn't gen 2 have 4WS? or maybe that was only in 3rd and 4th gens. That could be also the reason why your first lude felt different in steering.

I've driven both lude and euro :) but the lude didn't have stock suspension and the euro had shit tires so you can't totally rely on my opnion. The euro has a bit of body roll when stock and as Aaron said before tires would screech when cornering hard.

I'd have to say the 5th gen is better stock to stock.

[ginganggooly]

Back to the discussion:

- the Gen 5 prelude may feel better because it's a lighter car at around 1350kg? It is definitely a lower ride setup too.

- Gen 2 prelude was around 1000kg... nice chuck about weight.

- S15 was around around 1250kg.

A standard euro is sposed to be 1375kg... so there's only a bees dick in it anyway. Stock gen5 owners here fancy a track day?

[V205]

3rd Gen started the 4WS.


Ummm I'm probably wrong but didn't gen 2 have 4WS? or maybe that was only in 3rd and 4th gens. That could be also the reason why your first lude felt different in steering.


I'd have to say the 5th gen is better stock to stock.

[tron07]

period.

LOL at the people who think Euro can compare to sports cars. A front wheel drive 4 door sedan with chrome window lining as a sports car, haha sure buddy. And Im Michael jackson.

We have people comparing Evo and Hyundai....
I wonder how the Hyundai compare to Euro.

[aaronng]

Now back to the steering response, stock Euro handling with the 17" RE040 still doesn't feel as sharp as my prelude with A509 did. Turn-ins and cornering steering stability was still a bit wandering. Put on a Cusco front strut bar and had slight improvement but still not getting the feel I wanted.

Will RE001 be the tyre to bring me back the feeling?? I'd hate to spend $600 for 2 front tyres to find out that they don''t. But hey... they might fix the drift-to-the-right problem.

Anyway, if anyone in Melb (I'm in eastern suburbs) is running RE001 on their stock'ish 17" euro and wouldn't mind me having a sedated drive to feel it. I would much appreaciate it before making the jump myself.

Steering sharpness/response is a more affected by your front toe than the tyres (tyres are 2nd). I am still using the POS Dunlop 2050m which are probably the 2nd worse tyres I've used on any car (worst was the SP2020e) and by just dialing in -0.6mm total toe out instead of the usual +1.0mm toe in tyre places do for safety/tramlining/tyre wear, I got very sharp steering response eventhough my tyres are worse than the FM901.

[aaronng]

period.

LOL at the people who think Euro can compare to sports cars. A front wheel drive 4 door sedan with chrome window lining as a sports car, haha sure buddy. And Im Michael jackson.
Do you consider a 2 door rear wheel drive a sports car? If you do, then the stock Euro still out accelerates and outhandles a stock S13 Q's, so that makes you Michael Jackson.

[ginganggooly]

period.

LOL at the people who think Euro can compare to sports cars. A front wheel drive 4 door sedan with chrome window lining as a sports car, haha sure buddy. And Im Michael jackson.


Think first, then post sunshine. kthnxbye

[gReY-oNe]

A standard euro is sposed to be 1375kg... so there's only a bees dick in it anyway. Stock gen5 owners here fancy a track day?

is that a challenge?
LMAO

i toke my mums euro out teh other night

and my car out this morning ..
ummmsss
look slike ill take the challenge

[80057]

i'd be interested to see that, the gen 5 lude does handle better, but i think you need to work harder to keep it going full tilt, then the euro, body roll does slow the euro a fair bit around bends

[est1989]

i got ur back bao wow :)

[ginganggooly]

I smell a wakefield park track day. haha

[gReY-oNe]

^^ just find my prelude a better driver :D

HAR HAR HAR

[80057]

im sure you will be up to the challenge Bao Wow!

[spoondc2]

the number of doors does not determine how good a car handles

does hyuandai coupe handles better then evo9 stock to stock?

u do the math


LOL :thumbsup:

[spoondc2]

period.

LOL at the people who think Euro can compare to sports cars. A front wheel drive 4 door sedan with chrome window lining as a sports car, haha sure buddy. And Im Michael jackson.

LOL at you too :D

[est1989]

i call a track day....
track day!
track day!
track day!

[V205]

I see you point with the Toe adjustment. But my findings were based on the same alignment settings with different tyres on the front and the difference was just too huge.


Steering sharpness/response is a more affected by your front toe than the tyres (tyres are 2nd). I am still using the POS Dunlop 2050m which are probably the 2nd worse tyres I've used on any car (worst was the SP2020e) and by just dialing in -0.6mm total toe out instead of the usual +1.0mm toe in tyre places do for safety/tramlining/tyre wear, I got very sharp steering response eventhough my tyres are worse than the FM901.

[aaronng]

I see you point with the Toe adjustment. But my findings were based on the same alignment settings with different tyres on the front and the difference was just too huge.

Yup, if you coupled your enhancement of steering response from tyre choice with proper suspension alignment setup (not just going for factory specs but custom specs to attain the handling you want), you can get yourself a very sharp-handling car even with stock suspension and heaps of body roll!

[Lukey13]

Having driven my brother's Prelude quite a bit, I really had the impression that the Euro was a better handler, stock for stock at least - modified suspension and wheels shouldn't be compared. His had hardly any kilometres on it and was in pristine condition.

This surprised me given the "sportier" nature of the Prelude and it's low stance and profile, however I simply put it down to the fact that the Euro is quite a bit more modern in terms of technology.

The Prelude is quite a different beast to the Euro and in some ways is sportier (or perhaps more "raw) in it's ride and noise levels. The vtec sounds absolutely ballistic in the vti-r and I love it! :thumbsup: I should also say that his did not have 4 wheel steering, nor ATTS.

[aaronng]

Having driven my brother's Prelude quite a bit, I really had the impression that the Euro was a better handler, stock for stock at least - modified suspension and wheels shouldn't be compared. His had hardly any kilometres on it and was in pristine condition.

This surprised me given the "sportier" nature of the Prelude and it's low stance and profile, however I simply put it down to the fact that the Euro is quite a bit more modern in terms of technology.

The Prelude is quite a different beast to the Euro and in some ways is sportier (or perhaps more "raw) in it's ride and noise levels. The vtec sounds absolutely ballistic in the vti-r and I love it! :thumbsup: I should also say that his did not have 4 wheel steering, nor ATTS.

What tyres did he have on his Prelude? Even though the Euro is newer, the suspension is still a double wishbone on the front and multilink in the rear, very similar to the Prelude's double wishbone front and rear. The Euro does get conservative suspension tuning. If you have nice smooth flowing corners, the Euro does handle very good, probably better than the Prelude, but when you get to 90 degree corners, the Euro is in understeer heaven. :)

[Lukey13]

What tyres did he have on his Prelude? Even though the Euro is newer, the suspension is still a double wishbone on the front and multilink in the rear, very similar to the Prelude's double wishbone front and rear. The Euro does get conservative suspension tuning. If you have nice smooth flowing corners, the Euro does handle very good, probably better than the Prelude, but when you get to 90 degree corners, the Euro is in understeer heaven. :)

Actually I may have been wrong about stock wheels - his had aftermarket 17" wheels with the exact same tyres as my Euro's OEM Bridgestone Potenzas - rubbish tyres that I hate! I'm not sure whether the Prelude originally had 17". I'm pretty sure it carried 16" as standard for the vti-r.

[theseven]

my judgement should not be taken into really consideration though... just some opinion that might help... test drove euro from dealer before (2004 model) and i got a lude now...

the tyres on the euro were yokohama c-drive same as the lude that i own now... the euro got 17's but the lude got 16's... as long as i can remember... the lude still handle better cornering that euro... stock to stock that is...

[V205]

The prelude has a lower driving position and no doubt lower C.O.G than the euro which should feel like a better handler, especially in tighter corners as mentioned.

I'll try to arrange a 5th Gen test drive.

[JetLee]

I owned a 97 Prelude VTIR ATTS 5 speed, and now own an 05 Accord Euro K24 6speed. In my opinion the Prelude handled better. Similar power output, similar weight, but the preludes lower stance I felt made it handle better with less body roll. But the Prelude is a 2 door sports coupe, and the Accord is a 4 door sedan.... passenger car!
Comparing the cars technologies, the ATTS system transfers torque, it does not limit it. So it aids you in cornering by transfering up to 80% of the torque to the outside turning wheel. This substantially increases traction through a corner and encourages solid throttle at LEAST half way through a corner, if not sooner. The Accord features an ESP (or electronic stability program) system or traction control system. I have not read up alot on the Honda system, but if it is anything like Holdens systems it restricts throttle, and potentially assists by braking specific corners to balance the vehicle and maintain traction. With ESP/TC switched on, your car is being limited by the technology, BUT for the average driver, will probably enhance your driving, as long as you set a good cornering line, and let the technology do what it does.
In my Prelude I later fitted 18" racing harts with 18 35 225 tyres and also put in a set of king springs. The car handled AWESOME!!! As long as I set the right entry speed and kept constant throttle through corners to keep the ATTS in full function, nothing could compete!
I will be fitting a set of Tein Coilovers with EDFC controller in the next couple of weeks. I will report back on the difference then!

[tony1234]

I owned a 97 Prelude VTIR ATTS 5 speed, and now own an 05 Accord Euro K24 6speed. In my opinion the Prelude handled better. Similar power output, similar weight, but the preludes lower stance I felt made it handle better with less body roll. But the Prelude is a 2 door sports coupe, and the Accord is a 4 door sedan.... passenger car!
Comparing the cars technologies, the ATTS system transfers torque, it does not limit it. So it aids you in cornering by transfering up to 80% of the torque to the outside turning wheel. This substantially increases traction through a corner and encourages solid throttle at LEAST half way through a corner, if not sooner. The Accord features an ESP (or electronic stability program) system or traction control system. I have not read up alot on the Honda system, but if it is anything like Holdens systems it restricts throttle, and potentially assists by braking specific corners to balance the vehicle and maintain traction. With ESP/TC switched on, your car is being limited by the technology, BUT for the average driver, will probably enhance your driving, as long as you set a good cornering line, and let the technology do what it does.
In my Prelude I later fitted 18" racing harts with 18 35 225 tyres and also put in a set of king springs. The car handled AWESOME!!! As long as I set the right entry speed and kept constant throttle through corners to keep the ATTS in full function, nothing could compete!
I will be fitting a set of Tein Coilovers with EDFC controller in the next couple of weeks. I will report back on the difference then!
You'll notice a BIG difference.The stock setup is soft and spongy.03-04 models seem to have better spring/shock combo than 05-08.I believe Honda changed them from 05 onwards as some customers complained that the ride was too firm.I've got Bilsteins with Eibach springs and it's transformed the car.While you're at it change the rear sway bar (approx.$200)to an 18mm one and you'll notice even more improvement.

[Chris_F]

What tyres did he have on his Prelude? Even though the Euro is newer, the suspension is still a double wishbone on the front and multilink in the rear, very similar to the Prelude's double wishbone front and rear. The Euro does get conservative suspension tuning. If you have nice smooth flowing corners, the Euro does handle very good, probably better than the Prelude, but when you get to 90 degree corners, the Euro is in understeer heaven. :)

according to honda.com.au the accord euro has double wishbone suspension front and rear.

The euro isn't too fond of 90 degree corners stock - Better tyres make a world of difference though! I haven't been able to make my advan sport v103 screech at all on the street and understeer is a thing of the past. It also helps when you upgrade the suspension and add a bit of negative camber up front

[aaronng]

according to honda.com.au the accord euro has double wishbone suspension front and rear.

The euro isn't too fond of 90 degree corners stock - Better tyres make a world of difference though! I haven't been able to make my advan sport v103 screech at all on the street and understeer is a thing of the past. It also helps when you upgrade the suspension and add a bit of negative camber up front

Double wishbone usually has 4 links. The Euro's rear has 5 links, so it's called a multi-link.

The reason why it doesn't like 90 degree corners is because of the soft suspension and the very flimsy sway bars.

What are you running suspension and sway bar-wise?

[Chris_F]

in that case they should change the information on their site :P


I have tein SS, and whiteline 18mm. There was a noticeable difference going from -0.5 to -1.5 camber at the front aswell, the front end seems to bite into the corner more and resist understeer. Stiffer spring rates than the Tein 8kg F and 4kg R would help even more, but the car still feels pretty capable with the current setup

[aaronng]

in that case they should change the information on their site :P


I have tein SS, and whiteline 18mm. There was a noticeable difference going from -0.5 to -1.5 camber at the front aswell, the front end seems to bite into the corner more and resist understeer. Stiffer spring rates than the Tein 8kg F and 4kg R would help even more, but the car still feels pretty capable with the current setup

Did you go for the vision/spoon front camber kit? Was thinking about this when I had my coils put on a year ago.

[Chris_F]

I'm using SPC at the moment. It does the job but the lowest you can have the car is a 2 finger gap all round (approx 45mm drop) or you run into clearance problems with the fender. Looking into a vision camber kit atm, but it's a lot of money...

The outside edge of the front tyres used to cop a beating with a lot of hard cornering but now with -1.5* camber tyre wear is really even.