Chirping when gear changing

[sickvic1]

Hey guys,

Just a quick question. When i shift up from first to second and second to third while accelerating heavily, is it normal for the tyres to chirp? or is there something wrong with my gear box? Or could it be because my tyres are a little worn?

this is my first Honda and first manual car, so sorry if i seem like a bit of a dumbass

Thanks

[DLO01]

Quite normal in a Vtir and average tyres. :thumbsup:

Most cars would chirp 1st - 2nd.

[Encor3]

are you changing gears properly?
Like taking the accelerator off while clutch is down?
I get the same issue if I change gears without lifting accelerator

[sickvic1]

yeah i am but maybe my timing is a little off,

[Q_ball]

Its got nothing to do with letting off the gas when the clutch is pressed down.

Usually happens when u clutch in and out quickly during any gear change - mostly in lower gears 1-2 or 2-3.
Very rarely will it be 3-4 and so on.

Its quite easy to do.

[mrwillz]

super quick shifting

[Encor3]

Its got nothing to do with letting off the gas when the clutch is pressed down.

Usually happens when u clutch in and out quickly during any gear change - mostly in lower gears 1-2 or 2-3.
Very rarely will it be 3-4 and so on.

Its quite easy to do.

woops sorry read the original post wrong :(

[Shraka]

You need better tyres. Or an LSD. Or both.

[EGB18CT]

noob q's FTW hahaha, ask the muzza's in their commo's about it....

[aaronng]

It's because you are shifting quick and not letting the revs drop to the right point for the next gear before releasing the clutch.

Moving to the noob section. :)

[Aza]

i get cherping and my wheels start spinning to when im in first or second and i just put my foot down, not even touching the clutch or changing gears... is there something wrong with my car :( are my wheels about to fall off?

[JasonGilholme]

yes lol

throttle control kids

[Shraka]

i get cherping and my wheels start spinning to when im in first or second and i just put my foot down, not even touching the clutch or changing gears... is there something wrong with my car :( are my wheels about to fall off?

Chirping is the rubber momentarily loosing traction. Your wheels are not going to fall off. You just need new tyres, or need to shift less aggressively.

[est1989]

an LSD will help u chirp less and keep more traction on the road hence quicker times :) and new tyres would help even more but im sure u dont drive like a nut all the time so no need to change tyres until they are worn out in daily driving.

look at it this way, some people cant even chirp and they try to as well.

[Aza]

Chirping is the rubber momentarily loosing traction. Your wheels are not going to fall off. You just need new tyres, or need to shift less aggressively.

like i said i dont need to shift to do it :p if its around 3000 revs and i put the foot down in low gears instant loose of traction :p thats if u have it on 6psi or higher, mmmm turbo :cool:

haha i have brand new tyres on the front 2 ;)

[JasonGilholme]

you need to get better tyres then lol. :P:P

[Shraka]

And an LSD.

[Aza]

haha lsd wont do anything. both wheels spin at the same time :D

[Shraka]

haha lsd wont do anything. both wheels spin at the same time :D

So you already have an LSD then?

[Aza]

So you already have an LSD then?

no just when i do it i normally have equal force on both tyres. hehe its ok i KNOW why my car cherps its wheels its not rocket science.

[Shraka]

Normally one wheel will always slip first. Once one wheel is slipping, the torque has an 'escape' and will take the path of least resistance, which is the spinning wheel. Unless I'm greatly mistaken, I think you'll find only one wheel is chirping. :)

[Aza]

ur right about that, but if both wheels have equal force they will both spin equally. i think one might cherp more then the other, i no when i do it turning a corner only one does, but on the straight theres noise from both tyres, its like when i do a burn out i get smoke from both tyres.

LSD's only kick in when the forced is un even. but as for the original question, think thats already been answered. still cherping is fun :D

[Zilli]

You need better tyres. Or an LSD. Or both.

lsd has nothing to do with it, if my tyres are cold i can get both my wheels losing traction for many meters between first and second

[Q_ball]

Theres a bit of a difference between "chirping" and "losing traction".
Dont mix the 2 together.

As zilli said, lsd or not, chirpin and losing traction can still be easily achieved.

But to keep this thread ON TOPIC, chirping in Type R's is ridiculously easy!

[Shraka]

lsd has nothing to do with it, if my tyres are cold i can get both my wheels losing traction for many meters between first and second
[EDIT: Misunderstood your post...]

Sure, but an LSD sure helps stop it from happening. Twice as much rubber to overcome! :D And perhaps you need better rubber?


Theres a bit of a difference between "chirping" and "losing traction".
Dont mix the 2 together.

As zilli said, lsd or not, chirpin and losing traction can still be easily achieved.

But to keep this thread ON TOPIC, chirping in Type R's is ridiculously easy!

Umm, there is? As far as I understood chirping was the torque overcoming the tyres just after you shift, and them (or one of them) momentarily losing traction? Isn't it?

[Q_ball]

Yeh u beat me to it,
Let me elaborate,

Chirping is caused by a loss of traction, but its only momentarily lost.
The term "losing traction" is a bit vague and the way i was implying it to be in my previous post was that it was huge or long loss of traction.

Reason for my view:
aza was saying that he was losing traction when he plants his turbo civic - that is not chirping in my view, thats a complete loss of traction.

[Shraka]

Ahh I see.

Once my tyres are warmed up a bit (just general driving. I don't push the car when it's cold.) I'm actually finding it hard to chirp the tyres these days. Perhaps I've just gotten better at shifting? Or perhaps I'm getting old and shift slower. Heh heh.

[Dy_]

The more power you have the easier it is to chirp!

If you dont wanna chirp just drive like a normal driver! no quick shifting and no shifting when revs up high.

[JasonGilholme]

it doesn't matter when you shift its just about how you shift.

if you dump the clutch between gears chances are you'll chirp. just need to release the clutch slower so the power change is smoother and less likely to spin the wheels.

[Zilli]

it doesn't matter when you shift its just about how you shift.

if you dump the clutch between gears chances are you'll chirp. just need to release the clutch slower so the power change is smoother and less likely to spin the wheels.

excellent... very well said, if i get off in first at change over, rev between gears and dump it it'll spin up to about 100km/h... probably bout 10-15 meters, thats continuous both wheels spinning and the motor spinning at about 8200 rpm...

Mind you the old Azenis' take some time to warm up, and i dont drive my car until its warmed up, so generally taking off hard will cause 1st gear to lose traction too...

anyways... well put Jasongilhomme

[JasonGilholme]

anyways... well put Jasongilhomme

Thanks man :thumbsup:

[Shraka]

excellent... very well said, if i get off in first at change over, rev between gears and dump it it'll spin up to about 100km/h... probably bout 10-15 meters, thats continuous both wheels spinning and the motor spinning at about 8200 rpm...

Mind you the old Azenis' take some time to warm up, and i dont drive my car until its warmed up, so generally taking off hard will cause 1st gear to lose traction too...

anyways... well put Jasongilhomme

Don't drive at all till it's warm? Apparently thats not good. Glaze the bores on your block.

[Barge Ass]

i get cherping and my wheels start spinning to when im in first or second and i just put my foot down, not even touching the clutch or changing gears... is there something wrong with my car :( are my wheels about to fall off?

So you have a turbo EK and wonder why you get wheelspin? Perhaps torque>traction?

[JasonGilholme]

So you have a turbo EK and wonder why you get wheelspin? Perhaps torque>traction?

he was only bein sarcastic since the first post. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[DLO01]

Don't drive at all till it's warm? Apparently thats not good. Glaze the bores on your block.

Hes talking about his semi slick tyres. When cold some semis have less traction then normal road going tyres.

[Barge Ass]

he was only bein sarcastic since the first post. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Me is slow:(

[SLOWEGG]

like i said i dont need to shift to do it :p if its around 3000 revs and i put the foot down in low gears instant loose of traction :p thats if u have it on 6psi or higher, mmmm turbo :cool:

haha i have brand new tyres on the front 2 ;)

You just need better tyres.

If you chirp gears u know you're a true street racer. :cool:

[Aza]

he was only bein sarcastic since the first post. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

at least someone picked up on it :p

[JasonGilholme]

at least someone picked up on it :p

:thumbsup::thumbsup: :P

[Zilli]

"negative rep" Chirping when gear... 05-09-2007 12:17 AM claymore LSD has everything to do with FWD traction

it seems as though someone here doesnt agree with my view, but doesnt have the nutz to share his views in the open,

So, who here thinks that having an LSD will eliminate "chirping" or loss of traction. Who here interpreted my opinion as me stating that LSD is the be all and end all of traction? Maybe Claymore can chime in and explain why i deserve a negative rep point for stating what is an obvious truth... maybe an LSD in a jazz will prevent any traction loss.... and you can really get the power down properly... but for me, it doesnt take much lose traction, with BOTH WHEELS, as an LSD will simply mean the power goes to BOTH WHEELS, so BOTH WHEELS will be overcome with the power...

LSD is an important element in maximising traction in ANY vehicle... not just a FWD, only an idiot would dispute this, but it WON'T ELIMINATE traction issues which was my point... LSD WILL NOT STOP CHIRPING OR LOSS OF TRACTION, WHICH WAS THE OP's ORIGINAL ISSUE

Was i so wrong? or was a talking arabic? it seems everyone else had a fair idea of what i was talking about.

Its not the negative rep point im concerned about, maybe Claymore should post his view on here about LSD being "all about FWD traction" so he can cop a negative rep point for misleading everyone

GO on mate, put it up... anyway, your coming true on your promise to "get me" for negative repping you... So now you've cause an infraction, and a negative rep point... well done, keep up the good work

[Zilli]

Gee I guess you don't like it when someone does it to you but you can do it all you want???? LOL

This is quoted from my Private Messages... Do you really care about using the PQ point system to keep data integrity in this site?

when i have time to clarify the fact that you misinterpreted what i have posted in this thread i will

[Shraka]

I agree. I'd pos rep you claymore, but I don't know how to (or pehaps I can't without having more rep myself? I dunno.)

Zilli, your post really does read like "An LSD does not reduce chirping or traction problems". An LSD certainly does effect traction, as you said. If you're trying, obviously you can loose traction in almost any car, but an LSD will make it quite a bit more difficult to do. And will especially make unintentional chirping easier to avoid.

[Q_ball]

Guys, dont dispute the neg rep part of things in this thread,
PM either wynode or bennjamin to discuss this further.
Try and stick to thread topic.

[JasonGilholme]

LSD only links the drive shafts on either side of the box better. doesn't stop them from loosing traction. It can cause them to spin less (more mass to spin cause both shafts are linked) but isn't made for, and doesn't, eliminate traction loss.

thats what traction control is for.

so in fact: LSD has nothing to do with the chirping between gears.

[Shraka]

LSD only links the drive shafts on either side of the box better. doesn't stop them from loosing traction. It can cause them to spin less (more mass to spin cause both shafts are linked) but isn't made for, and doesn't, eliminate traction loss.

thats what traction control is for.

so in fact: LSD has nothing to do with the chirping between gears.

Umm... okay then what exactly IS an LSD for then if not to increase the amount of available traction?

[Zilli]

Guys, dont dispute the neg rep part of things in this thread,
PM either wynode or bennjamin to discuss this further.
Try and stick to thread topic.

on the way...

[Aza]

from the wikipedia. take it as u like.

In automotive applications, a limited slip differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in rotational velocity of the output shafts, but does not allow the difference in speed to increase beyond a preset amount. In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity.

The main advantage of a limited slip differential is found by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate freely– the torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, but will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the vehicle, thus the vehicle will remain stationary. In everyday use on typical roads, such a situation is very unlikely, and so a normal differential suffices. For more demanding use however, such as driving off-road, or for high performance vehicles, such a state of affairs is undesirable, and the LSD can be employed to deal with it. By limiting the velocity difference between a pair of driven wheels, useful torque can be transmitted as long as there is some friction available on at least one of the wheels.

[Zilli]

clayemore... everything you have said, i agree with...

If you want to stop chirping when changing gears all one has to do is get a better set of tires that has more friction between the tires and the surface they are on, let the clutch out more slowly or reduce the amount of gas pedal

So essentially, if you are sticking to the thread, and not going off tangent in your vendetta against me, then you would have opened your eyes and understood that we actually do think the same... on this topic...

the LSD's traction increase ability with NEVER cut out the possibility of a loss of traction... whether it be intentional or otherwise... it reduces the possibility, but it doesn't completely negate it. On this basis, how is LSD ALL about FWD traction, your message in your neg rep point to me you said its ALL about LSD, in your last post you have said get better tires.

So my view was no, the LSD doesnt have anything to do with it because i can personally leave 30 meters of black lines if i try hard enough... and obviously the OP is getting momentary traction loss between gears when he is going 10/10ths, which will allways happen if you are giving your car a good thrashing, and your not being particularly caring of your mechanicals.

The answer is, As you said yourself, he needs to understand that the biggest factor here is your ability to modulate the clutch and the throttle, not whether you have an lsd.

Where here do i deserve a neg rep point?

[JasonGilholme]

claymore i know how a dif and LSD work. no need to educate me. We're both arguing the same point as well. your just throwing around little indescrepencies.

What i said is correct however it doesn't completely eradicate wheel spin. if you've got enough power you can do a burn out all day long.

Only difference with an LSD is when you've got different amount of weight on each wheel. with an open dif it'll spin one tyre (hence commodores doin one wheel burnouts when doing a U turn) wheres with an LSD you'll spin both wheels. yes you will gain complete traction again sooner with an LSD but like i said - it doesn't completely solve the problem with traction.

And i said it links them better because it also depends on what type of lsd you've got 1 way, 1.5 way, 2 way mechanical, fully locked etc.

like i said - LSD wasn't made to solve the chirping between gears.

you said it yourself (and so did i) - get better tyres and learn how to drive :thumbsup:

EDIT: Thanks for the in appropriate -rep claymore


LSD only links the drive shafts on either side of the box better. doesn't stop them from loosing traction. It can cause them to spin less (more mass to spin cause both shafts are linked) but isn't made for, and doesn't, eliminate traction loss.

thats what traction control is for.

so in fact: LSD has nothing to do with the chirping between gears.

-rep = claymore "that is absoutley incorrect"

How is it incorrect? what i've said is exactly what you rehashed but without the needless physics lesson for those that don't need to know.

[Zilli]

And for your edification I have only given out 3 or 4 negative points in 2 years you happen to be one of them get over it.[/QUOTE]

plus... i dont need any edification because i just dont give a ****... so you being the very knowledgable member of this forum, judging by the number of green blocks you got, have not neg repped people, and you chose the neg rep me as the 3rd or 4th person in your whole time here, for something as ****ing stupid as this?

You dont give a shit about integrity of information, for you its just an opportunity to get your rocks off by "getting back" at me for having an opinion

:thumbsup:

[JasonGilholme]

You dont give a shit about integrity of information, for you its just an opportunity to get your rocks off by "getting back" at me for having an opinion


I've noticed he has a biased opinion when people don't agree with him. :thumbdwn::thumbdwn:

and if he's only given out 3 or 4 negative reps they must have all been to me... lol

[Shraka]

JasonGilholme: Oh I think I understand. You're saying that an Limited Slip Differential can't completely get rid of traction loss. Your post is misleading and seems to imply that you think an LSD is not designed to increase grip.

Lets get something straight here:
The goal of an LSD is to increase your available traction.

This would in turn reduce things like wheel chirping between gears as you need more power to break traction.


The main advantage of a limited slip differential is found by considering the case of a standard (or "open") differential where one wheel has no contact with the ground at all. In such a case, the contacting wheel will remain stationary, and the non-contacting wheel will rotate freely– the torque transmitted will be equal at both wheels, but will not exceed the threshold of torque needed to move the vehicle, thus the vehicle will remain stationary.

A Torsen Limited Slip Differential (As found in the back of a JZA80 Supra and in the front of all Type Rs) doesn't do this at all. It delivers a ratio of the torque to the opposite wheel (Around 4:1). So the non slipping wheel would get 25% of the power of the slipping wheel. If one wheel is off the ground and getting 0 torque though: 0*0.25 = 0.

The main advantage of an LSD in sports applications is when one wheel starts to loose traction (not come off the ground). As the torque overcomes one wheel, some of that torque is transferred to the other wheel in order to help maintain grip.

[JasonGilholme]

i said clearly that it increases tractions because it has to spin both wheels, however doesn't eliminate traction loss completely.

[Zilli]

**** people need to learn how to read, or at least get out a bit and talk to different people so you understand how different people express themselves.

[Zilli]

i said clearly that it increases tractions because it has to spin both wheels, however doesn't eliminate traction loss completely.

i know im baffled too

[JasonGilholme]

It can cause them to spin less (more mass to spin cause both shafts are linked) but isn't made for, and doesn't, eliminate traction loss.

can't anyone read properly?? fark

[Pumped]

F*Cking internet

[Shraka]

can't anyone read properly?? fark

Perhaps you should try writing more clearly.

[JasonGilholme]

if you can't understand what i qouted in my last post then theres problems.

[Shraka]

if you can't understand what i qouted in my last post then theres problems.

My point is, no need to insult me for finding your post misleading. Especially as your original post wasn't made particularly clear. You also didn't directly answer my question.

And you can't tell me Zilli's original post was totally clear: "LSD has nothing to do with it." It certainly does, and is designed to reduce traction loss.

It seems we're in agreement though. At least the original poster wont be short of information on what causes and how to reduce wheel chirping! Heh heh.

[JasonGilholme]

i wasn't insulting you. sorry if it seemed that way.

yeah it seems that we all agree. its just that not everyone was happy with the way other people described the functions and/or purpose of an LSD in regards to chirping between gears.

[Zilli]

the original poster never asked a ****ing thing about mass traction loss, where an LSD will turn a 20 meter inside wheel spin coming out of a corner on a track into a smooth pull out with minimal wheelspin

He was talking about chirping between gears... i dont care what the **** you say about it, if you dont agree that an lsd will not stop mid gear traction loss you gotta drive a car with an LSD

how the **** do you think a drift car loses traction for hundreds of meters at 100+km/h?

im sorry i wasnt as eloquent as Jason...

LSD + big dollar tyres + hard driver = mid gear wheelspin...simple reality

[Shraka]

Err, for starters, please drop the attitude Zilli.

Secondly, chirping is traction loss. An LSD and better tyres while still driving the same will reduce chirping. It's a matter of physics.

If you are chirping due to wheel torque momentarily exceeding the traction of your tyres by 15%, and then you upgrade from an Open Diff to a Torsen LSD (adding 25% more traction by sending 25% of the torque off to the other wheel) and each tyre with 10% more traction (either 10% wider, or better compounds, whatever), you would now be within the tyre's ability to grip by 22.5%*, and shouldn't chirp at all - assuming you still shift in the same way and don't intentionally try to chirp between gears.

* = 100% tyre grip * 1.1 [tyres] * 1.25 [lsd] = 137.5% of origonal grip
137.5% - 115% [grip required to hold torque] = 22.5% remaining grip

[dupac->]

it make a chirp sound when i a changing gear! vroooom *breerp* vrooooom..

[chumdab]

haha yeah should be careful could cop $240 fine and 2 points, thats what i got threated with but i got left off :D

[bennjamin]

chirping happens when you dump it too quick into 2nd or 3rd gear. LSD or not.
Not advisable since it wears tyres and clutch and gearbox prematurely.

Guys keep the negativity out of OH please. All off topic comments to pm and what reason is this thread here ? sickvic1 (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=16469) , go easy on your changes mate , you look like a fool/showoff/small knob if youi go around chirping everywhere.

[sickvic1]

Jesus ... thanks for the response guys
Yeah i dont drive like that all the time... just enjoying the Honda power lol
:thumbsup:

[Zilli]

no worries mate hope you made sense of my ramblings

:-)

Enjoy that power but be sensible!

[m0nty ITR]

But to keep this thread ON TOPIC, chirping in Type R's is ridiculously easy!

Agreed, if you wanna be silly a standard DC5R will chirp 3rd to 4th. There's nothing to gain by driving like that anyway. I think some people just want other to know their car has power to burn. Basically any FWD car can chirp at least one gear change so it's nothing to brag about.

[VTAKYO]

wtf u sure stock dc5 chirps 3rd to 4th coz mine doesnt

[m0nty ITR]

Like I said, if you give it to it hard enough it will. It doesn't mean it's anything special. It's just unnecessary abuse.

[destrukshn]

yeah if you flat shift.
maybe
lol
but from 3rd to 4th, flat shifting.
i dunnoes.
lol

[m0nty ITR]

Just a single chirp. I'm not claiming any huge amazing power output here. Just that it's been done a few times in my car before I had it modded. Wouldn't do it now with larger grippy tyres. When I bought it it had retreads on it.