Motor rebuilding

[1996ek1]

Hey guys, shortly im going to start rebuilding my motor for my HSC project, in automotive class. I have a 1996 Ek1; D16Y4.

I just wanted your help and opinions on what i had in mind.

To start i planned on boring & honing the block, and getting new pistons and rings. I was thinking of using the P29 pistons if i could find some to suit the bore.

Then i was planning a mini-me conversion, using a P2P ECU, but i've found out their fairly expensive to chip, and retune, but i was opting for the P2P for the knock sensor, seeing i was going for a high CR. I didn't want OBD1 ECU because i don't plan on tuning my self, and no knocksensor. But will it be better going for a OBD2 and getting it chipped, even though its alot more expensive to chip then OBD1, or should i just forget knocksensor and go OBD1?

Also will my Y4 head cover suit a Y8 head ?

Upgrading throttle body, any suggestions on size, or what type to get would be appreciated.

CAI, any feed back here appreciated too.

And if i can afford it towards the end, i planned on getting a new clutch + lightweight flywheel. ( advice and suggestions appreciated again )



Is it worth all this, and the money, or should i just look more towards and engine conversion ? I tryed avoiding this option because, if i rebore and rebuild my engine, its all like new again, and the sense of accomplishment, where as if i engine swap i get an old engine, + im not to sure about engineering certificate and all that.


Any advice or feedback would be great:thumbsup:

[Chr1s]

Not worth it,

Go B series or save for K.

Reboring and honing isn't about making an engine new, they do that so it can provide a surface for the rings to bed in, rather than trying to bed rings in on a glazed cylinder.. which won't do crap for sealing. Also, at the end of the day even if you have new rings it doesn't mean the motor will be like new, the rods may be giving up, the crank might be on it's way out also the head will be slowly on it's last legs too all depending on the way you drive it.

If you were to do a rebuild, i'd be looking at crank/rods treatment, pistons checked and polished, new rings, machine work, head reconditioned. (at minimum)

You will see gains by modifying the stock D series, but all that money to get it going, to me it would slightly more feasable to go for a b16 conversion, or spend abit more and get a b18.

engineering wise, you won't need one with a b16a simply because your car came out from honda with a b16a, also, you only need them when going up 25% in displacement I think? (something like that anyway)

[1996ek1]

Oh k, i thought if the block number didnt match the car, u need engeneering certificate.

I was going to buy a Y8 head with only 125,000 KM roughly. Was planning reboring and honing for a little extra power, and so the new rings on the P29's i planned on getting would make a nice seal. I was also thinking of rod treatment but i thouhgt i would see the condition they're in first.

But if the b16a doesnt need a certificate, i might look into that.

[Chr1s]

Don't listen to the advice from Chr1s above your post. Not any good advice in that post. The first clue is anyone recommending "Polishing pistons?????" doesn't know much about engine building.


HAHAHAHAH, also, and because he CAN afford a full rebuild with new pistons/rings. He clearly mentions money will be an issue (when isn't it) and using the same pistons is fine for a sealing job for a rebuild (what he is trying to do) AS LONG as their fine, which i also stated. So once you decide to use the same pistons, are you going to whack them in with the carbon deposits that have accumulated on the piston crowns ? oh wait, that's ****ing normal ! all engine builders do that !!!!!!

The point of polishing them is to remove the carbon deposits which leave the piston with a polished surface which acts AGAINST promoting further carbon build up, it doesn't last forever, but it helps !!!

Don't go saying he doesn't know anything, JUST by going off my "newcomer" status. I've had PLENTY of experiance in engine building.

;)

EDit: just to make you a little weary on rebuilding for new rings, I've seen a motor throw a rod which has been freshly rebuild (like what ur doing, on the budget so avoid blowby and loss of compression, etc) then his oil pump began to fail for short periods at random, 300km later, it threw a bearing (seized up the bottom end and the rod flew out the side)

Back to my point, it's not always about the rings..my old car before i rebuilt it had 320,xxx on it and the leakdown test showed it had plenty of life "ring wise" left in her. I replaced them anyway as I have custom pistons.

[1996ek1]

The OBD1 vs OBD II is something you will need to give some thought to. Unless you have someone in class you can get help from the easiest way may be the best way for your level of experience.

If your engine has loads of KM on it one more thing to replace while you have got it apart is the timing belt.


Ah yea, forgot to mention timing belt, i planned on changing it too though.

As for pistons i was planning on buying second hand PM29 pistons, then buying new rings for them.

Is it a good idea to go with second hand pistons, or should i just pay the extra bit and get them brand new ?

My current engine has 222,xxx on it, but i wanted to change the pistons for more compression. (will get some sort of rod treatment done)

Or should i change to different rods all together ?

And for TB, should i try find one from another honda (wreckers or something) or just buy a new one ? If other honda ones fit, does anyone know which ?

[Chr1s]

b16a is what i would say, but your money

i'm not going to bother expressing my opinions anymore anyway.

pm me if you want advice

glhf.

[beeza]

Don't listen to the advice from Chr1s above your post. Not any good advice in that post. The first clue is anyone recommending "Polishing pistons?????" doesn't know much about engine building.

:eek:

I have a D16y4 too and thought a lot about 'More Power'.The bottom line is ya gotta spend lots of $$$ if you want to stay NA,otherwise Boost is the way to go.Honestly mate it's just not worth it in the y4.I know you won't want to sell your car or go through the hastle of engine swapping but if you want more power without boosting it's your only option.
For NA,I'm sure you don't have $10,000 lying around to throw in the engine...
'TurtleEK1',Dave is a member on here.He has the y4 too.He is in the same boat,he wants more power,he knows a lot about the y4 and he's doing an engine swap...
You'll just end up spending and spending to not much avail and wished you had of sold and bought or engine swapped.
This issue gets covered all the time,it's cheaper to learn from other people's mistakes.
Go b-series.

[JasonGilholme]

but still if you boost a d16 your only gonna be as quick as a b16 anyway (drag times have proven this)

[beeza]

WOW,I didn't know that!
Boost it or b16 :)

[1996ek1]

Thanks claymore for all the advice and info

I would plan on going to high rpm, its more fun ;)

And thats the other thing i was going to ask, is it okay to be reaching vtec often, and to be redlining it ? (i'd imagine it wouldnt, but it seems like hondas are build that way and its okay?) but i guess my head just wont last as long ?

And would my setup be reliable ?

And if

but still if you boost a d16 your only gonna be as quick as a b16 anyway (drag times have proven this)

Is true, its probably not worth me spending all that time and effort.

If i do go engine swap, ill be doing it myself, i have untill July next year to finish my project, which gives me lots of time (althought i wanted it done faster, so i can drive it ) :p

If engine swap is the best option, apparently i can get B16 without engineering certificate, how about B18 ?

[nd55]

[ Warning, intenet mechanic in area. ]


Hey,

Sorry for the random answers, hope it makes sense.

> or should i just forget knocksensor and go OBD1?

Knock sensor doesn't normally participate in the engine running process. It's more of a safety measure Honda built in to the ECU.

Above approx. 4-5k rpm the sensor cannot distinguish between valvetrain noise and knock.

Assuming the engine is running OK and there's no dodgy fuel in tank, knock sensor will do nothing.

If it does detect a problem (unlikely) it retards the spark 10 degrees, which is more of a limp home mode.

Summary: missing the knock sensor won't be an issue. If you feel adventurous and wanna DIY tune at a later date, a knock sensor can (not always!! ) save your engine from tuning errors.

if you go OBD1, you will need to invest in an obd1 harness, obd1 ecu and EPROM programmer and time to program EPROMs etc.

OBD1 + Crome is the most flexible, but there's a big upfront commitment before you get the results, definitely not plug-n-go.

Thank fully there a binaries available on the web for d16 motors which you should match your engine configuration and download.

Next step is to program EPROM's or get someone to do it for you.

Alternative is to get a pro to tune for you, then go with they recommend.

*************************************************
> Oh k, i thought if the block number didnt match the car, u need engeneering certificate.

There's capacity and power limits before you need certificate.

Block has to be same age or newer. Otherwise will not be accepted.

**************************************************
> If you are not changing anything else no need to go wild on the TB enlargement a few MM will be enough.

D16y4 are a 56mm TB.

Lots of Honda TB can interchange,

B18b1 "LS" 60mm throttle bodies are cheap and direct fit to
the 92-00 manifolds.

I believe CRV B20 TB's fit, as do others, except type R's.

I havn't verified any of this. Do a search on Honda-tech.com, www.d-series.org and here.


**********************

> Or should i change to different rods all together ?

D16 rods are believed to be safe to about 200Hp.

polish and ARP studs go a long way on an NA engine.

**********************
> or should i just look more towards and engine conversion

You not gonna learn much with a conversion.

d16y4 88kW cheaper
b16 118kW cheap
B18c7 140kW start saving
K20 (type R) 150kW If you have to ask......
K24 (Accord) 140kW
K24 + K20 heads NICE!!!! ask Dr Honda or Mr JDMYard

How fast do you want to go?

IMHO doing up a d16 will cost about the same as a b16 swap.

b16 gets you better gear ratios, a nice revvy motor and is swap and go.

a modded d16 will approach a OEM b16 performance, but lots and lots of details need to be sorted. The only saving grace of this approach is you already have the engine core.

IMHO a LSD is a great performance piece.

D16 LSD's are rare. Probably only option is an OBX, disassembled, shimmed properly and installed into a d16y8 gearbox. Only D16y8 gearboxes have to 40mm axle bearings needed to fit the LSD.

I'm in the same postiion and decided I didn't care about being the quickest, but prefer to turn the spanners myself, so d16 it is.

Sorry not sure if I repeated any of this in earlier posts.

Nick.

[1996ek1]

Yea i think i might just go for a b16 engine conversion then. Ill see what i can find and how money works out.

The thing was if i get the parts slowly, i can afford it, cos i don't have a huge lump of cash lying around. But if i get conversion ,ill need to get money quick...

Hmm i'll put some thought into this, because i would also rather have a DOHC, + whats a B16 from, i thought they all had a number after it ? (B16a, B16c, etc)

[Chr1s]

B16A - VTIR EG(eg6+ ?)EK/crx
B16B - CTR

If these are wrong I don't really care :p not into what engine is in what..


K24 + K20 heads NICE!!!! ask Dr Honda or Mr JDMYard

ftw :) can't wait to finish mine heehe

[nd55]

Hey,

another option you might not have considered, is at the lower end of the performance spectrum but has potential.

B20 engine (from CRV's) and b16/b18 gearbox.

If you're source parts piece-meal and can pick up a b16/b18 gearbox cheap, then you might consider this.

CRV engines are b18 (not type R) block with a bigger bore. Siamesed cylinder liners. Has issues as a performance unit but the extra displacement can't be dismissed in a stock configuration.

MIght be a bit more available as B16/B18c are rarer.

Can't use CRV gearbox cause it's 4WD, obviously....


Nick.

[1996ek1]

Hey,
Has issues as a performance unit but the extra displacement can't be dismissed in a stock configuration.



Nick.

Don't like that part...

I like reving hard, and high.... and i think these redline at 5k ?