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JaCe
13-09-2007, 07:19 AM
After seeing the Injen fitted to an FD2 on some Malaysian guy's blog (http://hondacivic-fd2.com), I was wondering if there is an equivalent for my 1.8L Civic 2006 VTi-L.

Tried looking through the Injen site but to no avail. Or are there any other brands of intakes which are easy to fit and of good quality?

The Mugen one is really just an air filter from what I can tell :(

Shimian
13-09-2007, 08:45 AM
The mugen one is trying to emulate a CAI in my opinion but still retain the stock air box. Thats what i am trying to acheive with my FD2. Keep the airbox but remove everything afterwards (resonator and some piping). Then look for a manufactured part and attach it to the end of the stock airbox, then routing the part somewhere where there is colder air. Still researching at this stage.

JaCe
13-09-2007, 08:54 AM
That sounds like kindof what I saw in the Injen thread (somewhere else on OzHonda). Maybe someone else will make a similar solution for us.

Shimian
13-09-2007, 09:22 AM
Ill probably start off by removing the resonator. So what will be left is the stock airbox and the downward piping just before it connects to the resonator. It will emulate the mugen air box look. I will drive around to see if theres any improvements. Hopefully it does since the pipe is facing downwards sucking colder air - compared to the stock where the pipe is inside the engine bay sucking hot air.

denot
13-09-2007, 11:10 AM
I thought Injen only making the Civic CI version, and I asked them last time will it fit our FD2, they say no... :s weird...

Bob san
13-09-2007, 11:45 AM
i have the fujita CAI on my FD1. it makes an awesome induction sound and when u hit the vtec range its so much louder.

JaCe
13-09-2007, 12:50 PM
i have the fujita CAI on my FD1. it makes an awesome induction sound and when u hit the vtec range its so much louder.

Wow that sounds awesome. Any more info you can provide on the parts/price/installation (photos)? Thanks. I'd like a little bit more urge in my car and if it sounds good, all the better.

I'm hoping for something with minimal modification to the engine bay so I can reverse it out easily when it comes time to trade in the Civic. But parts which keep the car relatively stock (e.g. the Mugen exhaust) are fine by me.


I thought Injen only making the Civic CI version, and I asked them last time will it fit our FD2, they say no... :s weird...

I noticed on the Injen site that alot of models do double duty for different vehicles from same manufacturer so maybe look around keeping that in mind? Or just go message that Jack guy and ask for info on what parts work- he looks like someone who's quite helpful. Or failing that, ask on the Singaporean forums because I noticed in Singapore, most of the Civics sold are of the 2.0L variety.

denot
13-09-2007, 01:37 PM
I noticed on the Injen site that alot of models do double duty for different vehicles from same manufacturer so maybe look around keeping that in mind? Or just go message that Jack guy and ask for info on what parts work- he looks like someone who's quite helpful. Or failing that, ask on the Singaporean forums because I noticed in Singapore, most of the Civics sold are of the 2.0L variety.

I think I did send email to the injen website... anyhow, mine is an auto so I think only the SRI will fit the auto...

wilzee
13-09-2007, 06:15 PM
I found this on ebay. what do you guys reckon?

I've never heard of Simota. I'm also looking for a SRI.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Honda-Civic-1-8-2006-on-Ram-Pod-Air-Filter-Kit-Chrome_W0QQitemZ190150490383QQihZ009QQcategoryZ366 80QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

xqwzit
13-09-2007, 07:27 PM
"vtec range" on the fd1?

JaCe
13-09-2007, 10:26 PM
"vtec range" on the fd1?

I was under the impression that vtec on the FD1 was totally different because it was the i-vtec whereby if certain conditions were met, something would happen (not sure on the technical name) to basically, chill out the engine and become uber petrol efficient... so not quite sure what vtec range would be.

JaCe
13-09-2007, 10:36 PM
I found this on ebay. what do you guys reckon?

I've never heard of Simota. I'm also looking for a SRI.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Honda-Civic-1-8-2006-on-Ram-Pod-Air-Filter-Kit-Chrome_W0QQitemZ190150490383QQihZ009QQcategoryZ366 80QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Never heard of but;
a) Prices are cheap
b) A bit of Googling leads me to www.simota.com.au .. but no mention of the FD1/Civic 06 model. Maybe it's a relatively new product and local distro hasn't updated site lately? *shrugs*

EDIT: On the American Simota site http://www.simota.com/pro_in_fiber.php scroll down to the bit which says Honda, and you'll see;
"CF620-10 HONDA CIVIC 2.0
06-on "

... and if you go here http://www.simota.com/pro_in_standard.php, you will find "H-026 CIVIC 1.8
06-on "

ozR18
13-09-2007, 11:43 PM
wat abt the simota carbon charger something filter?? Jace im sure you know about this if u happen to be on Malaysia 8th generation civic forum..some of the guys are using that.

anyone has that setup on their fd?

ive got the stainless steel simota filter which basically does F'all. I hope it does something somehow..dun feel any extra power or better fuel economy but hey its another mod to your car.

JaCe
14-09-2007, 09:17 AM
wat abt the simota carbon charger something filter?? Jace im sure you know about this if u happen to be on Malaysia 8th generation civic forum..some of the guys are using that.

Sorry I've been out of it for a while with work/exams- haven't really had time to read the Singaporean/USA sites. I don't think I'm on any of the Malaysian forums surprisingly- links? There's 2 Singaporean forums, and the US 8th gen civic forum on my bookmark list- but then I haven't been in a while.

clem
14-09-2007, 10:47 AM
i have the fujita CAI on my FD1. it makes an awesome induction sound and when u hit the vtec range its so much louder.

rofl at 'vtec range'. Is it just me or is it when you read these posts 'vtec just kicked in yo' just pops in your head?

There IS no 'vtec range' in any SOHC vtec engine please get your facts right. SOHC vtec is purely to make the car run more EFFICIENTLY and it is constantly on 'vtec'. It isnt some sort of power surge. Its pretty much mental vtec to most people.

DOHC vtec on the other hand is the one where it 'kicks in' and makes your car sound like a jet.

ozR18
14-09-2007, 12:23 PM
http://eightgc2.forumup.com

Here you go buddy...its dangerous and wild those guys in that forum lol!.Warning: Easily Poisoned

JaCe
14-09-2007, 08:08 PM
http://eightgc2.forumup.com

Here you go buddy...its dangerous and wild those guys in that forum lol!.Warning: Easily Poisoned

LOL before I sign up... are they all crazy malaysians? sounds good imo.

Although for anyone who hasn't been- Malaysia is like Japan except with no cops (and the ones which are there are easily deterred), plenty of straight highway, good dirt tracks for rallyish, cheap labour for installing parts, easy access to lots of parts (since there's a lot of ports) and an F1 circuit which you can use. I highly recommend it if you have people over there who can get you into a car.

Bob san
14-09-2007, 09:55 PM
rofl at 'vtec range'. Is it just me or is it when you read these posts 'vtec just kicked in yo' just pops in your head?

There IS no 'vtec range' in any SOHC vtec engine please get your facts right. SOHC vtec is purely to make the car run more EFFICIENTLY and it is constantly on 'vtec'. It isnt some sort of power surge. Its pretty much mental vtec to most people.

DOHC vtec on the other hand is the one where it 'kicks in' and makes your car sound like a jet.

i didn't meant by 'vtec range' i meant after 5000rpm. after 5000rpm u will 'feel' the difference and hear it too. peak power is at 6900rpm. and it is not a SOHC vtec its SOHC i-vtec.

JaCe
15-09-2007, 01:58 AM
i didn't meant by 'vtec range' i meant after 5000rpm. after 5000rpm u will 'feel' the difference and hear it too. peak power is at 6900rpm. and it is not a SOHC vtec its SOHC i-vtec.

Still sounds interesting. Can u post any more info/thoughts?

Even though technically speaking there's no vtec range and whatnot, you can still feel that lacking in urgency from the throttle until around 2,500rpm... i'm so lame, i even nicknamed it "Attack mode" (who knows, it might become the next 'vtec kicked in yo') whereby you just hold the revs there when driving normally, and the moment you put foot down, you get something... whereas at any lower rpms, you put your foot down and you get a "meh" response.

aswanderers
15-09-2007, 01:47 PM
I think I did send email to the injen website... anyhow, mine is an auto so I think only the SRI will fit the auto...

hey friend, i am Jack the owner of http://www.hondacivic-fd2.com

Anyway I will suggest you guys not to buy injen SRI, which I have bought from US and use for 1 week before i took it out. No doubt the sound is good, but performance wise.. i don't find it great. firstly the filter is at the back which there is no cold air at all. worst is at high speed, there is no air at all due to flow of air as air will rush downwards "against" the filter.... this was confirm after i took out my filter... the downside filter was dented inwards due to strong suction

So you can visit my blog and see I custom make a SRI design which it is excellent but you must shift your battery.. tat location has lots of air rushing in from the bottom and is you want to add a bellon funnel below the headlamp, it is the best location as the funnel will be short and direct, with a llittle bend to prevent rain droplet.

anyway i am from Singapore not Malaysia, but my setup was done in JB malaysia =)

JaCe
15-09-2007, 02:51 PM
hey friend, i am Jack the owner of http://www.hondacivic-fd2.com

Anyway I will suggest you guys not to buy injen SRI, which I have bought from US and use for 1 week before i took it out. No doubt the sound is good, but performance wise.. i don't find it great. firstly the filter is at the back which there is no cold air at all. worst is at high speed, there is no air at all due to flow of air as air will rush downwards "against" the filter.... this was confirm after i took out my filter... the downside filter was dented inwards due to strong suction

So you can visit my blog and see I custom make a SRI design which it is excellent but you must shift your battery.. tat location has lots of air rushing in from the bottom and is you want to add a bellon funnel below the headlamp, it is the best location as the funnel will be short and direct, with a llittle bend to prevent rain droplet.

anyway i am from Singapore not Malaysia, but my setup was done in JB malaysia =)

Wow Jack lives here.

And mate, can I get in touch with you? I'm from JB but live in Sydney now so would like to get your help with tips on where to buy Honda gear in JB. Usulaly we go up north and stop along the way to Sepang to buy gear but it's quite far lor. I like your blog too- it's fun to read.

ozR18
15-09-2007, 03:22 PM
Nice blog Jack...please keep us updated.

And bless those guys in Malaysia..next thing to Japan.lol!

JaCe
15-09-2007, 06:02 PM
Btw to Jack- do you ever go up to Sepang? (sorry for going a bit off topic). My cousins always take me there... love going up there.

aswanderers
15-09-2007, 08:19 PM
Btw to Jack- do you ever go up to Sepang? (sorry for going a bit off topic). My cousins always take me there... love going up there.

view my blog I just updated... honda civic fd club in singapore went to sepang last July.. total 8 Honda Civic On Track.. dam fun!!!
http://www.hondacivic-fd2.com
(http://www.hondacivic-fd2.com)

JaCe
15-09-2007, 11:29 PM
view my blog I just updated... honda civic fd club in singapore went to sepang last July.. total 8 Honda Civic On Track.. dam fun!!!
http://www.hondacivic-fd2.com
(http://www.hondacivic-fd2.com)

LOL it's nice. If you're curious, last time I went Sepang I took these photo: http://picasaweb.google.com/jace.88/Sepang . I see on your blog you mention quite a few car shows including one featuring Gan Motorsports; so chances are you've probably seen our Fairlady 300ZX at several events as it holds drag records at Sepang.

dannybubu
16-09-2007, 12:57 PM
has anyone heard of this brand? i don't really trust it coz i've never heard of it but yeh...anyone know any info about this brand of SRI's...let me know

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Honda-Civic-1-8-2006-on-Ram-Pod-Air-Filter-Kit-Chrome_W0QQitemZ190150490383QQihZ009QQcategoryZ366 80QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

oh yeh i found this one too

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-2006-2007-06-07-Honda-Civic-EX-1-8L-Cold-Air-Intake_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38634QQihZ008QQi temZ180159149421QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD2V

JaCe
16-09-2007, 03:21 PM
It was discussed earlier in thread I think... I'm inclide to think tha tfor something like that, I'd want to make sure it had definite power gains and was of good quality before getting it- I'm no pioneer/early adopter.

Bob san
16-09-2007, 05:42 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fujita-06-Honda-Civic-EX-LX-CAI-Cold-Air-Intake-CA-1920_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38634QQihZ019QQite mZ290160933400QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

i got mine for $323 shipped from the US. took about 2 weeks to arrive which was pretty good.

clem
16-09-2007, 05:51 PM
i didn't meant by 'vtec range' i meant after 5000rpm. after 5000rpm u will 'feel' the difference and hear it too. peak power is at 6900rpm. and it is not a SOHC vtec its SOHC i-vtec.

lol, if you're gona correct me like that then it is not a SOHC i-vtec, its a SOHC i-VTEC. I was pointing out the fact that there are differences between any vtec engine whether it is ivtec or not, its the fact that SOHC's are built for economy and work in a completely different manner than DOHC's do.

I'm pointing this out so that people don't get mislead into buying SOHC i/vtec motors and expect the 'vtec' to kick in.


All cars after 5000rpm will make a loud noise not just 'vtec' cars..

Bob san
16-09-2007, 06:13 PM
lol, if you're gona correct me like that then it is not a SOHC i-vtec, its a SOHC i-VTEC. I was pointing out the fact that there are differences between any vtec engine whether it is ivtec or not, its the fact that SOHC's are built for economy and work in a completely different manner than DOHC's do.

I'm pointing this out so that people don't get mislead into buying SOHC i/vtec motors and expect the 'vtec' to kick in.


All cars after 5000rpm will make a loud noise not just 'vtec' cars..

the fact that its SOHC i-vtec is that it is vtec with VVTi, which as you say correctly is made for fuel economy. i do understand that DOHC rev much more aggresively (ive driven been in a friend's type r) since they were made for performance. the dual overhead cams are have much more aggressive cams lobes since they were built for performance.

the FD1s are 1.8L SOHC i-vtec i know but it is still pretty good for what it is. Stock figures show 103kw (i dynoed my with a car with a catback and got 77atw) and 174 Nm @ 4200 rpm.

yes all cars make a loud noise after 5000rpm, but when u go above 5000rpm in a civic gli... as opposed to a vti, u will feel the difference.

JaCe
17-09-2007, 03:38 AM
^ Pls elaborate ont he GLI vs VTI? I admit the 2006 Civic 1.8L i-Vtec is the first Honda I've driven...

With regards to the Fujita you bought off eBay, did you install it yourself? Sorry my net is really slow so I'm not going to attempt to click on page 1/2 (damn cap) but just curious as to what you thought regarding the fit, and how well it improved the drive? I'm seriously considering it provided I can do it and be able to reverse it out easily when I sell the car in the future. Thx for the info Bob_san- much appreciated!

Bob san
17-09-2007, 01:07 PM
yer i installed it myself (i burrowed some tools off my mechanic friend though :) )
its nothing too hard that you can't do yourself but some of the areas are hard to access since our engine bays are so damn small :(

dannybubu
23-09-2007, 10:20 AM
yer i installed it myself (i burrowed some tools off my mechanic friend though :) )
its nothing too hard that you can't do yourself but some of the areas are hard to access since our engine bays are so damn small :(

so have you noticed any power gains? like more torque or anything? and this is better than SRI coz it doesn't suck in hot air right?

JaCe
25-09-2007, 11:00 PM
bump =]

honest muz
26-09-2007, 10:36 PM
DOHC vtec on the other hand is the one where it 'kicks in' and makes your car sound like a jet.

I've got just two questions, hopefully on topic:
1) Why do you guys remove the resonator, is it not possible to graft it back on?

2) What sort of jet sound?

Slow_Dan
27-09-2007, 04:13 PM
I just bought one of these,
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180162895023&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Simota is a Taiwanese brand, www.simota.com for more information...

I've noticed some improvement in torque, and the cars is more eager to run across all RPMs, particularly after it hits 3k, the intake also show some real grunt when you step on the accelerator all the way down.. love it!

JaCe
27-09-2007, 06:54 PM
That's for the 2L correct? Sounds nice!

Slow_Dan
27-09-2007, 10:48 PM
Hey Jace,

Yeah, but I think they've got one for 1.8L on auction atm :))
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180162883975&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Btw, drove a little more today, and when the Vtec kicks in, i felt the urge of not lifting my feet off the pedal lol :PP too bad it wasnt on track, speed limit kicks in too.. sigh :(

Slow_Dan
27-09-2007, 10:51 PM
yer i installed it myself (i burrowed some tools off my mechanic friend though :) )
its nothing too hard that you can't do yourself but some of the areas are hard to access since our engine bays are so damn small :(

I cant agree enough on the matter that the engine bay is bloody small lol.. makes it a nuisance cramping everything into such a small place.. but yeah, for those who're gonna try their hands on fitting an aftermarket intake yourself, it wont be too hard, will be the first mod u should try your hands on :thumbsup:

bangers178
04-10-2007, 04:37 AM
hi all
i just installed the simota short ram intake today(off eBay), DIY job too.
it wasn't too hard, but there was a few moment when i was a bit confused (with the oil breather and the coolant) but everything came together really well!!!
really happpy with the induction sound and it feels like theres a bit more torque.
i found the hardest part was taking out the air box resonator:p

JaCe
04-10-2007, 09:32 AM
You guys have sold me.

Can I ask you about the install? In terms of easy removal/reversal- how hard is it?

bangers178
04-10-2007, 11:39 AM
well firstly u have to remove the resonator box which is a bitch.
Just as an overview on what to do:
1)you have to jack up the car and take off the tyre (passenger side) and un clip the plastic under body, undo a few bolts and rip out the bix and pipping.
2) take out the intake box by undoing a couple of bolts and the clamp connected to the tottle body. and twist and rip the box out.
3)when u fit the new intake, watch the coolent piping and the oil breather. you might have to put a oil breather filter on to make room for the intake. and buy a hose to connect the coolent to the t.b.
4)connect the intake pipe. reconnect the AFM and ur prety much done.

dannybubu
04-10-2007, 06:14 PM
anyone tried the K&N typhoon SRI yet? im thinking of getting that...

Shimian
04-10-2007, 07:04 PM
well firstly u have to remove the resonator box which is a bitch.
Just as an overview on what to do:
1)you have to jack up the car and take off the tyre (passenger side) and un clip the plastic under body, undo a few bolts and rip out the bix and pipping.
2) take out the intake box by undoing a couple of bolts and the clamp connected to the tottle body. and twist and rip the box out.
3)when u fit the new intake, watch the coolent piping and the oil breather. you might have to put a oil breather filter on to make room for the intake. and buy a hose to connect the coolent to the t.b.
4)connect the intake pipe. reconnect the AFM and ur prety much done.


Can you remove the resonator only leaving the pipe going downwards from the stock air box? And to confirm its UNBOLT only?

bangers178
04-10-2007, 07:06 PM
have a look in the DIY section in singapore civic forum. some dude did it there.
http://www.civicfd-sg.com/index.php

bangers178
04-10-2007, 07:10 PM
Can you remove the resonator only leaving the pipe going downwards from the stock air box? And to confirm its UNBOLT only?

umm i dont think u can leave the pipe on cause it stuck in the resonator pretty tight. i was thinking about hack sawing it off but yeah decided to take the whole thing out instead.

Shimian
04-10-2007, 09:01 PM
umm i dont think u can leave the pipe on cause it stuck in the resonator pretty tight. i was thinking about hack sawing it off but yeah decided to take the whole thing out instead.

So you need to remove everything from the underside of the stock airbox? It should leave a little bit of piping to put your own piping right?

bangers178
04-10-2007, 10:00 PM
are you talking about the FD1 or FD2? the air intakes are differant.

Shimian
04-10-2007, 10:07 PM
I have FD2. I would have thought its similar set up. Airbox -> downpipe -> resonator -> pipe coming back up to engine bay????

JaCe
05-10-2007, 08:36 AM
AFAIK different engines, different locations/size/etc.. etc.

For those interested in that K&N Typhoon;

http://www.civicfd-sg.com/viewtopic.php?t=371

Here are some quotes from the forum regarding the install;

Thanks to bro fireclone for letting me test-drive his ride FD1(A) during the meetup before deciding which setup to get for my next upgrade.

My FR base on butt feel compare to stock airbox w/CAI.
Low-end loss is quite obvious around 30% but moving off can really feel the pedal is lighter and engine is more willing to rev. If for cruising speed can feel it's much smoother than airbox. After it hit to 2nd gear 2500rpm onwards can start to feel the power gain for mid-end and it shoot up to 5000rpm within split seconds, compare to airbox really takes some time to hit that level.


Yeah, typical effect of a SRI are

1) Improved throttle response
2) Low end losses
3) Mid-High end gain

I will just comment on the Cons. I felt the low end losses most vividly when I need to accelerate lightly at rpm range around 2500rpm. Other than that, normal cruising on highway, is still the same as before. Overall, driveability is not very much affected.

And of course, I will try to find ways to fix that low end loss.


I worry that because in Aus where I live there are alot more hills and I also drive alot in the city at low-rpm, the loss of low-down acceleration will be a massive dip in performance for me.

markCivicVti
05-10-2007, 09:08 AM
That low end loss sounds horrible. I didn't know that a SRI would incur low end loss. But how come? Is it the length of the piping?

aswanderers
01-11-2007, 05:02 AM
That low end loss sounds horrible. I didn't know that a SRI would incur low end loss. But how come? Is it the length of the piping?

SRI setup will def incur low end loss, the only way to reduce it is by using appropiate filter head, smaller or covered one, but if that is the case, why install SRI... go for CAI....

Auto FD2 strongly advise for CAI and not SRI, unless u go for sound rather than performance.

xqwzit
01-11-2007, 09:07 AM
SRI is a total waste of money..
always go for CAI instead or airboxes like mugen and gruppem.

denot
01-11-2007, 10:35 AM
Auto FD2 strongly advise for CAI and not SRI, unless u go for sound rather than performance.

hmm a bit confused here... if you suggest to go for CAI for auto FD2, then why in injen and fujitsubo website they have CAI only for FD2 Manual? and when I send them email, they said for auto the only have SRI?

:confused:

aswanderers
01-11-2007, 12:15 PM
hmm a bit confused here... if you suggest to go for CAI for auto FD2, then why in injen and fujitsubo website they have CAI only for FD2 Manual? and when I send them email, they said for auto the only have SRI?

:confused:

Hmmm i think they are crazy.. actually for our ride we cannot use injen SRI as they have a different Intake Manifold, i had changed mine to the US intake manifold and therefore able to fit the injen in as our TB location and angle is different from the US.

And to the reply to your email I was shock. In Singapore, our civic club we ordered 30 over injen CAI from USA and it is used by both Auto and Manual.

Actually, CAI and SRI can be used for any car, unless the engine bay has different design which affect the positioning.

You can visit my blog as I have shown picture of the installation of Injen SRI, take not that my Intake Manifold is different from yours as I had changed it.

JaCe
03-11-2007, 12:44 PM
LOL Jack.. you really gotta show me your car if you're free end of year. I'm coming JB/Singapore for a week after Christmas!

xqwzit
04-11-2007, 09:43 PM
why go for performance on automatic car?
dont think anyone who enjoy modding cars will get auto.
should go for looks.
waste of money

andyhui01
04-11-2007, 09:56 PM
^quite true Alex, that's why I was quite hesistant to do anything other than the injen for my civic (Injen is mainly to give it a nicer sound).
If any of you drive a manual FD1/2, get the gruppem, one of the best around... slightly expensive though.

denot
05-11-2007, 10:18 AM
^quite true Alex, that's why I was quite hesistant to do anything other than the injen for my civic (Injen is mainly to give it a nicer sound).
If any of you drive a manual FD1/2, get the gruppem, one of the best around... slightly expensive though.

me too Andy, I love the sound of the air intake so thats why I want to put either SRI or CAI on my Sports. Not looking for performance though, if I do... i wont buy civic :p

andyhui01
05-11-2007, 10:23 AM
^well... you bought a sport :P, if you're looking for sound with no low end loss, I think INjen is the best compromise, or if you feel abit rich, get the GruppeM one, SRI Sound but CAI performance :D

denot
05-11-2007, 10:27 AM
^well... you bought a sport :P, if you're looking for sound with no low end loss, I think INjen is the best compromise, or if you feel abit rich, get the GruppeM one, SRI Sound but CAI performance :D

thanks andy! i bought sports cause... I'VE GOT CHEATED!!! :p yupz, I ask the dealer when I was about to bought them about some stuff that is not in VTI-L (leather trim, sunroof, etc) and he said that I can get some of it, but others I cant (cant get sunroof options on VTI-L, leather trim, etc)

But now... T-T everyone has sunroof on their VTI-L should've just bought 2nd hand DC5S instead... T-T

JaCe
27-11-2007, 10:51 AM
LOL back on the topic of the original Simota Air Intake; did anyone go about getting it?

I'm a bit of a n00b to this so was wondering how it would work in relation to my existing K&N drop in panel filter on the 1.8L Civic.

markCivicVti
27-11-2007, 11:04 AM
Don't know about that Simota intake jace.

But I would consider the Injen CAI for our FD1. JDMYard/JDMConcept (keep getting them mixed up) has the injen one for our cars. Costs $500 from them (a bit pricey). The Injen website has a really good installation manual that I read through. Definitly something you can do yourself I reckon. It has a slotfor the air flow sensor... so the ECU works well with it - I don't know if this is common in CAIs.

Did you want to keep the stock airbox look? And if so how come?

Bob san
27-11-2007, 12:29 PM
so have you noticed any power gains? like more torque or anything? and this is better than SRI coz it doesn't suck in hot air right?

power gains are minimal and you probably won't feel too much of a difference. just the engine sounds much more aggressive.

imo the i would get a cai then a sri as it sucks in more cold air and won't leave u with a exposed pod.

JaCe
27-11-2007, 12:39 PM
The Simota is around $220ish incl. install so it seems pretty cheap. Does it make that much difference with sound I wonder?

$500 is a bit pricey for me atm.

As for keeping it stock- it's more so that I can reverse it out when it comes time to trade in without leaving any damage/marks in the engine bay.

As a n00b though, this will fully replace the airbox which holds my K&N filter won't it? i.e. my K&N will no longer be needed?

markCivicVti
27-11-2007, 12:42 PM
^ I reckon it would not fit. Probably won't be OEM panel size if it is a panel at all. Could just be a pod inside the box.


But just as a FYI - I think the Injen Cai would be fairly easily reversed back to stock. Tho you do have to cut a small section of plastic off - but noone will notice.

JaCe
27-11-2007, 12:49 PM
Don't know about that Simota intake jace.

But I would consider the Injen CAI for our FD1. JDMYard/JDMConcept (keep getting them mixed up) has the injen one for our cars. Costs $500 from them (a bit pricey). The Injen website has a really good installation manual that I read through. Definitly something you can do yourself I reckon. It has a slotfor the air flow sensor... so the ECU works well with it - I don't know if this is common in CAIs.

Did you want to keep the stock airbox look? And if so how come?

Can you confirm it's for the FD1? It's on JDMYard but there's no price; just a photo. I have an automatic FD1.

URL: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60656

Also found this URL off the US forums for installing Injen CAI into R18; I guess that's us FD1's!
http://8thcivic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10055

kazam
27-11-2007, 12:58 PM
SRI pwns CAI in terms of sound. and simota are well known for making quality intakes.. so yeh it should sound mad.

markCivicVti
27-11-2007, 01:00 PM
Yeah I asked (EG5 I think it was). He PMed me the price. Now I'm not sure if the auto will require anything different - but from what I've read it will work with it anyway. But I know its for our FD1s

The instructions are on the Injen website.. and they have tons of pics and easy to follow instructions. It's a pretty simple install process... just read through it once or twice before trying.

I love the sound of the injen cai... check out youtube.. there's a couple of vids with the injen cai on a r18a.


There are plenty of positive reviews on the Injen. So thats the product I'm leaning towards. It's probably a safer mod than changin sussy setup - in terms of warranty.

Jo_e
27-11-2007, 01:04 PM
So how much is it? Im slightly interested if the price is right.

JaCe
27-11-2007, 01:39 PM
Do you have a link to the installation on Injen site? I couldn't find the correct model from their guide... got a bit confused ><

ps. To Jo_e, I asked our usual source for the price. He'll get back to me. He also got me a price quote for the INGS kit. Call u later abt it.

JaCe
27-11-2007, 01:40 PM
SRI pwns CAI in terms of sound. and simota are well known for making quality intakes.. so yeh it should sound mad.

I'm shallow- I wouldn't mind a nice sound :) But then loss of low-end power is still a concern considering the R18 ain't that great. Don't want to rely on brake torque all the time :)

kazam
27-11-2007, 03:13 PM
i have D16y1 which is ridiculously slow, and wen i got my AEM SRI, in terms of performance, gains may be close to 0.5 - 1 hp.. seriously.. ok my acceleration feels alot 'smoother', but theres no gains or losses anywhere.. you may think that you've gotten gains high-end during vtec, but no, you havent, it just sounds faster, and like in terms of sound, it really is alot better, definently a great mod, but yeh, in terms of being concerned with "loss of low-end power" and all that, DW no loss or gain in the intake department IMO.

so in conclusion

Gains / losses - did not notice any, much smoother acceleration, especially when it's cold outside and your engine is warm.

Sound - MUCH better. alot gruntier, with my particular intake, theres a lot of suction noise, only thing i regret is getting the intake after i got my exhaust coz i would have loved to have heard it by itself.


hope that kindah helps

JaCe
27-11-2007, 06:25 PM
i have D16y1 which is ridiculously slow, and wen i got my AEM SRI, in terms of performance, gains may be close to 0.5 - 1 hp.. seriously.. ok my acceleration feels alot 'smoother', but theres no gains or losses anywhere.. you may think that you've gotten gains high-end during vtec, but no, you havent, it just sounds faster, and like in terms of sound, it really is alot better, definently a great mod, but yeh, in terms of being concerned with "loss of low-end power" and all that, DW no loss or gain in the intake department IMO.

so in conclusion

Gains / losses - did not notice any, much smoother acceleration, especially when it's cold outside and your engine is warm.

Sound - MUCH better. alot gruntier, with my particular intake, theres a lot of suction noise, only thing i regret is getting the intake after i got my exhaust coz i would have loved to have heard it by itself.


hope that kindah helps

Thanks for the mini review. +rep!

Quick question, do u think it'll have much impact on my car when I have to take it in for servicing at Honda?

kazam
27-11-2007, 06:27 PM
i cant imagine y it would...?

markCivicVti
27-11-2007, 07:36 PM
Well... when they service the car it wont be the oem panel filter. So... will they service it (i.e remove your pod and clean and possibly re-lube it).. or will you have to clean your filter yourself.

The reason it's important is that having new car warranty we still need all the servicing done to keep it under warranty.

JaCe
27-11-2007, 10:18 PM
I don't want Honda to say it voids warranty and therefore they won't service the rest of the car; or that they refuse to service the rest of the car at a normal price and charge a premium? *shrugs*

Has anyone had any experience with Honda servicing and (slightly) modified engine bays?

Shimian
27-11-2007, 10:22 PM
i have a mugen oil cap, reservoir cover, k&n air filter and 3 pivot items installed with cables running everywhere. They still serviced my car. Not sure if thats what u mean by slightly modified? They also sprayed some chemical on my negative battery terminal where all my pivots connect to. Apparently its to prevent it from rusting or something.

Jo_e
27-11-2007, 10:24 PM
lol @ jace. why do u care? just get brett to service ur car.
he does a better job than fking scotts. they didnt even change my oil thingy last time...T.T

denot
28-11-2007, 08:35 AM
go to Top1 JaCe!!! XD I wanna see your car as well :p

JaCe
28-11-2007, 09:41 AM
Top1? What's that?

As for servicing, I think it's because at least the tax invoices provided by Scott's will be 100&#37; legit with the ABN and all.

That, and I want my car to be reversible to stock when I trade it in for Evo X sometime next year.

Frost_FD
28-11-2007, 10:57 AM
Evo X wow,

BTW you cant do that..... thats betraying your Honda tribe....

JaCe
29-11-2007, 01:02 PM
LOL it happens.

Anyway back on topic of CAIs... any thoughts on hydrolock? I admit I dont know that much about it but was wondering if the Injen or Simota intakes will suffer from this?

(URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_air_intake)

When using a cold air intake, there is a potential risk when driving in the rain. This is often referred to as "hydrolock", and according to the automotive portal, MODsearch:

"Say it's raining cats and dogs and you're out for a spin in your car. Normally you'd love to rip through puddles without thinking twice, but because your engine is now getting air from inside your bumper you have to be careful. If your engine manages to suck up any amount of water through the intake and into the engine you will probably have little to no horsepower left. In more extreme cases, the water brought into the engine through the intake can actually break connecting rods in the pistons, as water will not compress at all, unlike air. In other words, be careful."

It is important to take precautions when using a cold air intake as to avoid getting water in the engine. This may include installing a water shield in the intake or not driving in the rain at all. It is also notable that less damage will occur from water reaching the engine on a rotary engine car, as opposed to a piston engine car.[citation needed] Some cold air intake manufacturers now include a built in hydro-shield, a piece of plastic that blocks water from entering the air filter. K&N also offers a "sock" called the "Drycharger", which prevents hydrolock.

Air bypass valves are gaining popularity in cold air intake manufacturing. An air bypass valve is a filtered spacer that is positioned more into the engine bay, between two connected pieces of the cold air intake assembly. This prevents hydro-locking by providing an alternate route for air to come in, thus eliminating the vacuum that causes water to be sucked in from a puddle. Foam filters are a simple piece of foam that is air permiable, and most have no valve. It is argued that this reduces power, but in actuality it provides more surface area for air enter the engine when the driver presses the pedal. When driving at moderate speeds, the suction caused by the engine is not enough to activate the air bypass valve. Cloth filter bypass valves actually have a valve, air only enters if the valve is sucked opened as result of the vacuum pressure caused by a blocked filter at the bottom of the intake. When it comes to cold air intakes this is the "best of both worlds"

Is this a concern for me if I install either intake?

kazam
29-11-2007, 01:05 PM
not if u install SRI, and i cant say i've heard of many people suffering from this, unless u fall in2 a ridiculously insane puddle, which by living in sydney u shouldnt have to worry about that kinda weather. or u could just do wat paragraph 2 says.

markCivicVti
29-11-2007, 01:08 PM
I looked into that as well... basically... it's only a worry if you're happy driving through water high enough to submerge the filter.

Now I've been driving for about 4 years now and haven't ever come near a puddle of water that is anywhere near that high. Small amounts after water don't hurt your engine... the problem is having alot of water... as water doesn't compress like gasses do.

Anywho... I'm not worried about hydrolocking. If you are going to drive over some big (deep) puddles then don't redline it through... as that would increase suction. I think it's a bigger concern over in yankland (USA) where in certain parts the whether goes to extremeties. Over here in QLD I'm not worried at all.

markCivicVti
29-11-2007, 01:21 PM
Anyone here in OZ hydrolocked an engine? And if so what were the conditions?

JaCe
29-11-2007, 03:18 PM
Thanks guys. I was just a bit concerned because with the Mugen grille, it's basically an open hole at the front of the engine bay so I was thinking it might be very possible for water to get in.

rhk
29-11-2007, 11:40 PM
i have the simota carbon charger on my fd1.
(ill take pics tomorrow)

piping onto throttle body ---> charger + pod ---> stock snorkel

Jo_e
29-11-2007, 11:52 PM
i have the simota carbon charger on my fd1.
(ill take pics tomorrow)

piping onto throttle body ---> charger + pod ---> stock snorkel

Is the simota one any good?

Frost_FD
02-12-2007, 11:08 AM
Hey guys, i want a much more agressive sound for my FD, will a Pod help and which one is best to get?

JaCe
04-12-2007, 04:18 PM
^ I think the Simota will do for that.

My importer said the Injen isn't cheap since it's made in USA (and he's got Japanese contacts) so I might just get the Simota one off eBay for $180ish. I wonder if it's easily reversible?

Anyone have thoughts?

Frost_FD
04-12-2007, 05:44 PM
Im going for the injen, 350 AUD not bad... but would have to wait 2 weeks to get it..... its so hard getting one in perth no one seems to sell them

JaCe
04-12-2007, 09:31 PM
Wow where'd u see it for $350aud?

Frost_FD
04-12-2007, 10:15 PM
Wow where'd u see it for $350aud?

http://www.nipponpower.com/product.phtml?p=65&mmk=617

Here you are bro!

Im still deciding if its worth it!!!! so hard.......

denot
05-12-2007, 09:41 AM
http://www.nipponpower.com/product.phtml?p=65&mmk=617

Here you are bro!

Im still deciding if its worth it!!!! so hard.......

which one will fit our FD? the Si or LX? :confused:

Frost_FD
05-12-2007, 10:40 AM
The part number is SP1569 P for polished and B for black thats for our 1.8L VTI and VTI-L for sports its SP1578 P for polished.

I just bought mine cost 300 AUD and 80 dollars shipping Yikes!!!

Still cheaper then from AUS and its 3 - 5 days shipping time... so i get mine next week

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/Frost_FD/06CivicInjen.jpg

denot
05-12-2007, 10:54 AM
frost, pls remind me of your FD model... :p

Frost_FD
05-12-2007, 11:19 AM
You mean a pic?

here it is

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/Frost_FD/PC012332.jpg

denot
05-12-2007, 12:26 PM
You mean a pic?

here it is


er... i mean a model name (forgot if yours is Sports or VTi or VTiL) :p

Frost_FD
05-12-2007, 01:26 PM
Hahaha i just like showing of my new rims,

VTI-L same engine as VTI so both models can use the same Injen CAI

denot
05-12-2007, 02:25 PM
hahaha, nice rims though... :p anyway, mine is sports... so... WTH am I doing @ this thread??? :S

Shimian
05-12-2007, 10:07 PM
from that angle, 19"s does suite the car. Too bad the rims i want doesnt come in that size. Anyways, hows the ride now? Or are you getting used to it?

Frost_FD
05-12-2007, 11:11 PM
Ummzz the over all control of the car is much better, its just that on bumpy roads you can really feel it

Shimian
06-12-2007, 07:40 AM
even with my 16"s on bumpy roads i can feel

denot
06-12-2007, 09:18 AM
back to the intake topic guys... i think his ride is covered on another thread? :p

Frost_FD
06-12-2007, 09:33 PM
Well im waiting for my Injen CAI, do i still attached the air sensor to my new CAI?

markCivicVti
06-12-2007, 09:43 PM
Well im waiting for my Injen CAI, do i still attached the air sensor to my new CAI?

Yes the injen CAI has a slot for the sensor.

Frost_FD
06-12-2007, 10:54 PM
Excellent, cant wait to get it now. In the mean time im trying to install my start button hope it all goes well

gumbii
07-12-2007, 10:49 AM
let us know how it goes...im also itching to install my button but havent had the time to do it.

take some pics of the DIY too if you can


Excellent, cant wait to get it now. In the mean time im trying to install my start button hope it all goes well

rhk
07-12-2007, 03:04 PM
just dont drop your air flow meter, apperntly they are kind of expensive lol

Phlirt
10-12-2007, 12:39 PM
guys,

I cant seem to find any info for CAI or SRI's for Civic Sort FD2, doesnt anyone have a part/model number?
Does any one on here have a CAI/SRI installed

Frost_FD
10-12-2007, 12:52 PM
guys,

I cant seem to find any info for CAI or SRI's for Civic Sort FD2, doesnt anyone have a part/model number?
Does any one on here have a CAI/SRI installed

Hi Philirt,

If you read the pages before i stated the part number for the sports model.

Phlirt
10-12-2007, 01:04 PM
thanks FrostFD. That site says its for the US Civic Si - are tey exly the same as our Sports in terms of throttle body position etc?

Frost_FD
10-12-2007, 02:49 PM
Im pretty sure cause they use the KA20 for the SI...

Now to think about it.. their driver side is on the left side... hrmmmzz well i get mine in a few days. We shall see!

denot
10-12-2007, 02:59 PM
Im pretty sure cause they use the KA20 for the SI...

Now to think about it.. their driver side is on the left side... hrmmmzz well i get mine in a few days. We shall see!

you are our "test driver" Frost!! make it works Plox!!!! :p

Phlirt
10-12-2007, 03:42 PM
yea, the sport has the k20z in it. From looking at pictures of both it looks like the throttle body is on more of an angle in the k20z

denot
10-12-2007, 03:55 PM
do you guys think this will fit our Civics?

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=57A-6008

Frost_FD
10-12-2007, 04:01 PM
I have pictures of the R18A and its on the same side so no fuss there. As for my start button it was install this weekend with alot of dramas!!!!!!

But eventually got there damn pros didnt know what they were doing idiots....

So i said im only paying 100 bucks for the install

Frost_FD
10-12-2007, 04:04 PM
do you guys think this will fit our Civics?

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=57A-6008

Hi denot,

There is a K&N CAI out for our civics i saw one for 200 US? abouts there.

I suggest you go for CAI if you want more torque and fuel efficiency cause you wont receive the full advantages with just the SRI

denot
10-12-2007, 04:06 PM
Hi denot,

There is a K&N CAI out for our civics i saw one for 200 US? abouts there.

I suggest you go for CAI if you want more torque and fuel efficiency cause you wont receive the full advantages with just the SRI

hmmm a friend of mine sed that its not for our civics, he hase to do a ghetto mods on the pipe to make it fit to the sports pipe (or something like that).

And i thought this K&N Appollo thing is a CAI, well maybe Im wrong... :p

Frost_FD
10-12-2007, 04:16 PM
Actually denot i dont think they make K&N for the sports maybe you can try AEM or Injen?

Frost_FD
10-12-2007, 04:22 PM
Here denots this is where i bought my Injen CAI from maybe this will help you out with yours?

http://neverenoughauto.com/index.php?target=categories&category_id=2379

denot
10-12-2007, 05:02 PM
thanks Frost... I kno abt injen, but I just want to know if the K&N Appollo would do as well (since its a bit more "flexible" - using hose not pipe :p)

anyway, i do more research since im not in a hurry moding the performance part of my sports :p

Frost_FD
10-12-2007, 05:15 PM
thanks Frost... I kno abt injen, but I just want to know if the K&N Appollo would do as well (since its a bit more "flexible" - using hose not pipe :p)

anyway, i do more research since im not in a hurry moding the performance part of my sports :p

I want to race a sports... 10 more KW i wonder who would win??

markCivicVti
10-12-2007, 05:30 PM
Hey Frosty,

What transmission have you got? I'm curious because I'm wondering if the same CAI will fit my auto FD1.

Not sure if the info was correct, but I read somewhere that the Injen Cai was only for Manual transmission FD1s.


Edit: When do you get the CAI installed? I'm looking forward to knowing if it fits perfectly.

Frost_FD
10-12-2007, 05:34 PM
Hey Frosty,

What transmission have you got? I'm curious because I'm wondering if the same CAI will fit my auto FD1.

Not sure if the info was correct, but I read somewhere that the Injen Cai was only for Manual transmission FD1s.


Edit: When do you get the CAI installed? I'm looking forward to knowing if it fits perfectly.

Ummzz i did read something like that it was for manual cars but i dont see a difference if its manual or auto.... My car is manual so it should be ok....

I shall post some pictures as i go along... as for the start button the pros just stuff up here and there so i didnt take any photos

denot
11-12-2007, 08:34 AM
Not sure if the info was correct, but I read somewhere that the Injen Cai was only for Manual transmission FD1s.


hey Mark, I also read it sumwhere before... and keep on commenting that on this forum :p but most ppl sed it should be ok (maybe need some adjustment to fit but it can work - at least this is what my mechanic said)


I want to race a sports... 10 more KW i wonder who would win??

Hahaha, come to sydney and we can test it :p but i dont really have enough "confident" to race with my sports auto

Frost_FD
11-12-2007, 10:17 AM
Hahaha, ill just find some sports whois willing to one day.... Well not with my 30 KG wheels... hahaha

Oh yeah btw im looking for my next mod after my CAI.
Any ideas?

markCivicVti
11-12-2007, 10:21 AM
Exhaust
bodykit
HIDs
Double din stereo/dvd thingy
Subs
wash and a wax :P

Frost_FD
11-12-2007, 10:24 AM
I cant get body yet because im waiting for the mugen lip to come out, so im going for exhaust. But you all know with hondas most of them dont sound to great. The one im looking at now is the HKS silent exhaust.

Frost_FD
17-12-2007, 12:15 PM
Finally after almost 2 week my CAI has arrived, bloody slow AUS POST

denot
17-12-2007, 12:17 PM
Finally after almost 2 week my CAI has arrived, bloody slow AUS POST

Yeah Frost!!!!! cant wait to hear the result :p

Frost_FD
18-12-2007, 10:43 AM
Please guys you must get the injen CAI it is worth the money!!

5-10 HP gauranteeed and the sound is crazy once you go above 3000 revs.

Thumbs up to the Injen CAI bang for your bucks!

denot
18-12-2007, 10:46 AM
Frost! did you get any commision from selling this? :p jkz jkz... hmmm i might start saving up to buy this... r u sure u get 5-10HP increase?

markCivicVti
18-12-2007, 10:48 AM
You should have done a DIY while you were installing it! I will get the injen CAI but am not in a hurry... will have to wait for sometime in the first half of next year.

Do they have a CAI that will fit your FD2 Denot?

denot
18-12-2007, 10:52 AM
hmmm people in this forum said they do... i think they said the Si 2.0L version is about the same for the FD2... but i still keep an email from injen saying they dont have one for us... (not even FD1) :confused:

markCivicVti
18-12-2007, 10:54 AM
Injen are stupid for not testing it on the FDs... they are losing out on a market. Should get them to ship you one for a free trial fit. Make a deal that you'll send them pics of the install... then they can claim its good for the FD2 too.

That way u keep a free CAI :)

denot
18-12-2007, 10:56 AM
hahahahha I should try that... but when I try to email them again, now i got no reply after sending 5 emails to them... :(

Frost_FD
18-12-2007, 11:48 AM
There are injen CAI for both models... i dont know where you guys are looking..... They do come with picture instructions on how to install aswell. Sorry guys i was in a rush so i didnt get to take any pictures. The only hard part is taking out your old air box. The rest is common sense and the intructions should tell it all.

denot
18-12-2007, 11:56 AM
Frost, if you refer our FDs as Civic EX or Si then yeah Injen has it (www.injen.com)

Frost_FD
18-12-2007, 12:09 PM
Yes denot, i bought the civic ex 1.8L R18a injen CAI. I think the engine number says it all so i trusted it and it fits like a snug

markCivicVti
18-12-2007, 12:15 PM
Just cos its the same engine doesnt mean the engine bay layout is the same (i,e battery location etc).

I know from singapor forums that the FD1 def fits... but havent heard about the FD2 - so not 100&#37; sure.

I'm guessing that it will fit... but shouldn't assume that it definitly fits before seeing if another FD2 owner has tried it.

denot
18-12-2007, 12:28 PM
Mark, I will start another thread for FD2 then (since this one is "NOT the Sport/FD2 model" thread...) :p

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1472741#post1472741

JaCe
18-12-2007, 07:13 PM
Yes denot, i bought the civic ex 1.8L R18a injen CAI. I think the engine number says it all so i trusted it and it fits like a snug


Thanks for that.

EDIT: I feel blind. Can't find anything for R18 on http://www.injen.com/docs/other/search.asp .

Frost_FD
19-12-2007, 08:00 PM
here are some better pictures of my newly install CAI

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/Frost_FD/Injen.jpg

darkshines
21-12-2007, 01:56 AM
here are some better pictures of my newly install CAI

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/Frost_FD/Injen.jpg


looks awesome :thumbsup:
btw Frosty, is your car manual or auto?

Frost_FD
21-12-2007, 10:44 AM
Manual =) only way to go for hondas to rev the living crap out of them.

Actually i was short 2 grand when buying this car =)

darkshines
21-12-2007, 11:30 AM
hah thats why you got a manual?
well does the injen CAI fit on the automatic version?

Frost_FD
21-12-2007, 11:42 AM
Im pretty sure unless the engine bay is setup differently, but i heard you might have to make a few modifications to make it fit on a AUTO

JaCe
14-01-2008, 11:16 PM
I wonder why Injen specify their CAI for "Manual". Looks very tidy IMO.

My K&N Typhoon is going well; to save people trying to find the installation thread.. it's here: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81969