Question....VTEC

[sprmboi]

Hey guys, don't u think the VTEC in the euro comes on too late?
I use triptronic to race a BMW 325i E46...Just lost a little bit coz i think the VTEC comes on a little late...

Any suggestion? I lost to a Golf GTI too by the way...dissapointing...:thumbdwn:

[Jegi#5]

Mate hate to be a party pooper but you have no chance against those cars. An Auto Euro does a 9.2 second 0-100km\h time, not sure on the beemer but my pic is it would be quicker, especially if its a manual. If you are lining up against a new generation Golf GTi you have no chance at all, 0-100 in 6.9 (auto) and 7.1 (manual).

I guess I should also state that you shouldn't be racing these cars on public roads because someone's going to point that out, not too sure if you are though.

You should have got a manual to start with as it has 6 forward gears as opposed to the auto's 5 (shorter gearing = better acceleration) and it also has less power loss once the power hit the wheels compared to an auto, but even then if all you are interested in is lining up against people, then you should have bought a rexy or similar to begin with.

Just my 2cents

[sprmboi]

LOL....yeah....probably....im just lining up for fun...just to test it out...
yea i test drive the manual b4, theres so much more response....:thumbsup:

i feel like selling the car....any1 interested?

PS: am i allowed to advertise?


Oh yea btw, so hard to drift it ey? I pulled hand brake already but the stupid hand brake doesnt hold for sum reason, VSA off already too...

[EuroAccord13]

Hi there..

First of all, you are not allowed to advertise in this forum yet so try not to as we slap infraction points...

Secondly, we do not allow talk of street racing here :)

[EuroDude]

Drifting a front wheel car is very hard, I wouldnt even try it in the euro.

VTEC engages at the optimal rev range. If it was lower, it wouldnt improve acceleration times. But if you get a custom ECU and add an intake+exhaust, the optimal VTEC range changes.

And yeah, if you wanted to have a performance car, you should have gotten the 6MT. If you are stuck in traffic a lot, keep the Auto

[ginganggooly]

And yeah, if you wanted to have a performance car, you should have gotten the 6MT.


:D unless we find a way to remove about 300kg from the car, it'll never be a performance car...

[sodaz]

Yep the other guys pretty much explained it. Here's some acceleration data:

Auto Euro luxury - 0-100km/h in 9.2 seconds
Auto Euro std - 0 - 100km/h in 9 seconds
Manual Euro luxury - 0 - 100km/h in 8.1 seconds
Manual Euro std - 0 -100km/h in 7.8 seconds
DSG Golf GTi - 0 - 100km/h in 6.9 seconds
Manual Golf GTi - 0 - 100km/h in 7.1 seconds
E46 Auto BMW 325i - 0 -100km/h in 8.5 seconds
E46 Manual BMW 325i - 0 -100km/h 7.4 seconds
E90 Auto BMW 325i - 0 -100km/h in 8 seconds
E90 Manual BMW 325i - 0 -100km/h in 7 seconds

[euro77]

it comes down to the driver as well :P

[johnprocter]

LOL euro's a heavy/solid ass car

[yfin]

LOL euro's a heavy/solid ass car

compared to what? The BMW would weigh more.

sprmboi (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=16703) - I think you expect way too much from the auto euro.

[aaronng]

VTEC doesn't make power. Cams/inertia & resistance reduction/tuning make power. VTEC improves fuel efficiency.

[EUR003act]

VTEC doesn't make power. Cams/inertia & resistance reduction/tuning make power. VTEC improves fuel efficiency.

when vtec is off (lower cams engaged) the engine is UNDER powere due to the fact of efficiency... when it activates (higher cams engaged) the engine is running at its full capability/optimum performance for those revs...

and yes BMW is heavier than euro...

[J-TODA]

LOL....yeah....probably....im just lining up for fun...just to test it out...
yea i test drive the manual b4, theres so much more response....:thumbsup:

i feel like selling the car....any1 interested?

PS: am i allowed to advertise?


Oh yea btw, so hard to drift it ey? I pulled hand brake already but the stupid hand brake doesnt hold for sum reason, VSA off already too...

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ur expecting wayyyy to much from the euro man...

if u realli wanted to drift...dnt get a ff....

i fink an s2k is more ur liking....rwd ... =] lighter... more responsive... more quicker...

+ not good idea to post up ur racing LMAO!!...

[r-r-redEuro]

in before close !

[aaronng]

when vtec is off (lower cams engaged) the engine is UNDER powere due to the fact of efficiency... when it activates (higher cams engaged) the engine is running at its full capability/optimum performance for those revs...

There is no on-off for VTEC. VTEC lets you switch between low and highcam. Actually, the Euro makes more torque on lowcam than in highcam. It is more efficient in lowcam because at highcam and high RPM, the cylinders can't fill to maximum capacity because of the large cylinder capacity and short intake stroke. The reason why peak power is at 6800rpm is because power = work/time. RPM is 1/time, so you get more power eventhough there is less torque.

[sprmboi]

Hi there..

First of all, you are not allowed to advertise in this forum yet so try not to as we slap infraction points...

Secondly, we do not allow talk of street racing here :)

OOpss....sorry man...newbie....dun noe...dun punish me yet.....hehehe :angel:

[sprmboi]

(can i talk bout drifting?)

yea i noe its hard to drift wif FF but u can still do it...check out you tube.

2 J-Toda:
well yea i wanna get a S2K but still but expensive...how much would a 2004/05 model cost? i like da new bodykit better than the old one, nicer stock wheels 2...

yea the bimmer is heavier...

[aaronng]

(can i talk bout drifting?)

yea i noe its hard to drift wif FF but u can still do it...check out you tube.

2 J-Toda:
well yea i wanna get a S2K but still but expensive...how much would a 2004/05 model cost? i like da new bodykit better than the old one, nicer stock wheels 2...

yea the bimmer is heavier...

An 02-03 would cost the same as your Euro Lux.

[Jegi#5]

Just out of curiousity mate, why did you choose the Euro in the first place? It just seems like a you spent a whole lot of money on a car that isn't going to satisfy you. You must have a crap load of dosh to splash on any car you want because only a fool would buy a new car (judging by your pics it's an 06 or 07) and then want to change the car because it doesn't live up to your high expectations just a few months on. :confused:

[sprmboi]

hehehehe....
lol....
i bought it second hand....
the euro im using is actually an '06 Lux Black not in the pic.
the pic is my other euro, havnt got a change to take the black pic.
well i think i can still get my money back if i sell the black one plus rego...

+ i dun have a lot of dough, if i do, i'd buy an S2K 4 sure and a Legend 4 everyday car....

[aaronng]

If you want a fast car and know how to do your own maintenance, an E36 M3 can be had for about $45k

[d15z1SUX]

sell both your euros and get a s2k lol.

[J-TODA]

LMAO!! haha yer man....

bt serzly think about selling the euro..if ur realli that keen on DRIFTIng....

dere are many other options which u could choose to satisfy ur needs...

best to save the money whihc will be spent on maintaining a drift wanabe euro...and use it towards something ull realli like.....or something that is built to handle such driving styles... =]

s15...s2k...rx8...xr6t..woteva =]

[aaronng]

BTW, the s2k is not an easy car to drift. So you should look at something else.

[JasonGilholme]

A) your a FWD, don't try to drift, you'll hit a pole
B) Euro doesn't = a performance car. Should have bought a camry
C) S2K is 50/50 weight dist so its gonna be hard to drift (you need more weight at the front for a good drifter)
D) manual > auto :thumbsup:

[ALN]

Dude, what's the different between euro and camry , still looks the same as heavy and in fact camry even heavier than euro. Euro standard still less than 1400 kg mark, lol. I haven't seen camry go to track or being a race car. 5zigen are using euro R as their representative, Spoon, Feel's, real time tsx.

It is true euro still heavier line up rather than previous honda models but isn't K24 of euro or TSX is the current one of the most wanted engine in honda market.

[JasonGilholme]

my point is that the euro is basically a camry (but the camry is cheaper lol)

EDIT: K24 is awesome. Euro + K24 is not. 900 kg chassis with k24 is hot!

[ALN]

my point is that the euro is basically a camry (but the camry is cheaper lol)

EDIT: K24 is awesome. Euro + K24 is not. 900 kg chassis with k24 is hot!

Well it is true camry is cheaper but well you are talking on honda forum.:D
Honda + NA is addictive, mate. You have to spend more $$ than on 980 kg EG if you want something on euro plus euro still got the looks and the comfy

[JasonGilholme]

You have to spend more $$ than on 980 kg EG if you want something on euro

you mean that a euro will beat my crx??

lol..

hehe

[ALN]

you mean that a euro will beat my crx??

lol..

hehe

Well if you give me the money to make the euro fast, I'm sure I can beat the CRX. hehehee.

[JasonGilholme]

haha but if i spent the same money on mine i think i'd still be infront.

that sounds like a another thread starter lol

[ALN]

haha but if i spent the same money on mine i think i'd still be infront.

that sounds like a another thread starter lol

well, can't argue, lighter always faster. :D That's why a friend of mine sold his STi for EG with built B18C cause it is cheaper than modify the STi.

[aaronng]

my point is that the euro is basically a camry (but the camry is cheaper lol)

EDIT: K24 is awesome. Euro + K24 is not. 900 kg chassis with k24 is hot!

If you sit in a base model Euro and a base model Camry, you'll find many differences both in comfort, luxury, handling and engine that account for the difference in price. :)

The Euro won't outhandle an S2000, nor will it outdrag a B18C EG Civic, but it is a great family car. ;)

[JasonGilholme]

The Euro won't outhandle an S2000, nor will it outdrag a B18C EG Civic, but it is a great family car. ;)

true true and true.

[Shraka]

If you wanna drift, and I mean seriously drift, sell your Euro, and buy a 1989 CA18DET powered S13. Lots of torque, easy and cheap to modify, with a dirt cheap engine ('cuz everyone wants SR20s, not CA18s). With potential too, as you can switch to an SR20DET. Also, 'cuz it's so cheap, if you smash it, you can buy a new shell or new panels relatively cheaply. That'll set you back about $9,000 - $15,000 depending on how hardcore you wanna go. Strip the interior, use it only for track and going to-from the track (or even buy a trailer).

Also, if you wanna go fast and/or drift on a budget, forget Auto. It just wont do, especially for drifting.

Drifting in a FWD = loose. Yes it can be done, not it's not worth it.

Personally, if I had 2 Euro Accords and wanted to get into drifting, I'd sell both, buy an SR20DET powered S13, get a savage clutch, intercooler, coilovers, and up the boost or get a car that already had all that done. Buy a car trailer. Buy a Ford Falcon XR6 or XR6 Turbo, use that daily. Fit it with a tow bar to drag the S13 to drift days.

OR:
1. Buy SR20DET S13 Silvia
2. Buy VS Commodore with towbar + Car trailer
3. Buy DC2 Type R

Then you have your towing car, a sports car for day driving, and your drift weapon.

[Shraka]

Oh, if you're just interested in having a fast car, and don't really want to drift, and can drive a manual I'd suggest selling one of your Euros, and buying a DC2 Integra Type R, S14/S15 Silvia, WRX STi, R34 Skyline GTT, Soarer 3.5TT or JZX100 Chaser (auto). All of those should come in under the price of a Euro.

If you can't drive manual, perhaps consider a auto versions of the R34 GTT, JZX100, Soarer V8, or something similar.

[BusterSonic12]

vtec isn't like turbo, it doesn't generate more power when it is engaged =)

[EUR003act]

why does everyone wanna sell the euro everytime they want to go faster?

wheres the fun in that?

anyone can buy a r34 or wrx and drive fast... but theres much more passion and sexiness in working the k24 and making something special, something no one else has, something that people go "F*ck thats a nice euro"

[Shraka]

Oh yes, also as far as VTEC goes, VTEC is Honda's technology to switch from a low lump to high lump cam. As BusterSonic12 stated, it doesn't generate more power, but rather just allows the high revving engine to get the air it needs. At low RPM, the lumpy cam (or engaged VTEC) would result in LESS power and a really rough idle (hence why they have VTEC in the first place). VTEC isn't a technology to make a car more powerful. It's a technology to make a high revving engine running a lumpy cam driveable for your average joe, economical, and feasible to be sold to the general public.

Engaging VTEC lower in the rev range would make your car slower. Honda has tuned it for the perfect point between your low lump cam's peak efficiency, and your high lump cam's peak efficiency.

[sprmboi]

Oh yes, also as far as VTEC goes, VTEC is Honda's technology to switch from a low lump to high lump cam. As BusterSonic12 stated, it doesn't generate more power, but rather just allows the high revving engine to get the air it needs. At low RPM, the lumpy cam (or engaged VTEC) would result in LESS power and a really rough idle (hence why they have VTEC in the first place). VTEC isn't a technology to make a car more powerful. It's a technology to make a high revving engine running a lumpy cam driveable for your average joe, economical, and feasible to be sold to the general public.

Engaging VTEC lower in the rev range would make your car slower. Honda has tuned it for the perfect point between your low lump cam's peak efficiency, and your high lump cam's peak efficiency.

so its not good to use a VTEC controller and lower the VTEC...hmm...thanks for the info.

woah i havent check the tread for a few days, hehehe, pretty good discussion...

the thing is im a Honda fanatic, other car that i would buy is only Lexus (the IS200 is a beauty to drive and easier to drift) and a Merc. Never Toyota...Too straight rivalry to the Honda...hehehe.

It's not that I want to sell the Euro becoz I want a faster car, it just add up to the reason that I want to buy an S2K...I've always wanted one since 8 years ago, f*ckn...long time. Just realised ive wanted one 4 ages....damn. Lucky those guys that have an S2K.

[Vinnie]

lol u need to get rid of the idea of drifting family sedans :p unless its a jzx100 or something ;) lol

[Shraka]

so its not good to use a VTEC controller and lower the VTEC...hmm...thanks for the info.
Correct. The only reason I can think to get a VTEC controller is if you've made some extensive mods (cams, port+polish, low friction rings) and then needed to change the VTEC engagement point, and redline. But the only direction I can think you'd have to move the engagement point is up towards redline, not down.


the thing is im a Honda fanatic,
A car is a car man. Don't be a brand fanatic, it's lame. Honda's are great, but every car manufacturer has something to offer. Subaru has some awesome AWD cars, and the STi is great value for money. Nissan has a LOT of cheap powerful cars, the Silvia being fantastic for drifting and the GT-R being an absolute track weapon. Toyota has some very reliable cars, the 4A-GE is a great engine, the BEAMS 3S-GE is a GREAT N/A engine and the 2JZ-GTE is arguably the best production turbocharged engine EVER. Mitsubishi has MIVEC, which is exactly like VTEC, so their FTO does a similar job to a Integra Type R (arguable which is actually better, but I'd say the Type R is for sure) and their Lancer Evoultion is an insane car!

As you see, every brand has something different going for it.


other car that i would buy is only Lexus (the IS200 is a beauty to drive and easier to drift) and a Merc. Never Toyota...Too straight rivalry to the Honda...hehehe.

You do know that Lexus is a sub brand of Toyota right? The Lexus IS200 is known as the Toyota Altezza in Japan. So when you say never Toyota, you mean you're second choice to a Honda is Toyota.


lol u need to get rid of the idea of drifting family sedans :p unless its a jzx100 or something ;) lol
Agreed. What's with all this 'easy to drift' stuff? Most road cars are rubbish for drifting. You need some VERY stiff suspension and a LOT of power to do it. Once you get really good you can do it with less power, but that takes ages.

Also, drifting is really bad for your car. You'll have:
- Damaged rims from smacking into stuff when you come off the track
- Damage front and rear quarter panels, as well as front and possibly rear bar.
- Damaged radiator and intercoolers if you have one (and if you're drifting I hope you do)
- Bent suspension components from hitting stuff (and trust me, you will hit a thing or two)
Even if you never hit anything (highly unlikely) you will have:
- Lots of shredded tyres (Dah)
- Broken LSDs (due to over use)
- Damaged axles
- Damaged driveshafts
- Wrecked flywheels (eaten by the clutch)
- Shredded clutches (from clutch kicking and trying to hold down lots of power)
- Sheered gearboxes (from the stress of breaking traction constantly and clutch kicking)
- Blown engines (from bouncing off the rev limiter and running to much boost)
- Leaking oil pumps (from driving the car in racing conditions)
- Overloaded cooling system (from essentially racing the car, but at lower speeds than racing, thusly causing over heating problems)

It's not really a hobby you want to get into with your day driver. Something set up to take drifting will have fewer problems, but will be nowhere near as comfortable to drive daily. So really you want a second car that you will abuse and that will get rough and uncomfortable to drift in, meanwhile your day driver is still comfortable and pleasant.

And please don't tell me you're only drifting on the street. 'cuz that's freekin' stupid, not to mention illegal.

[sprmboi]

A car is a car man. Don't be a brand fanatic, it's lame. Honda's are great, but every car manufacturer has something to offer. Subaru has some awesome AWD cars, and the STi is great value for money. Nissan has a LOT of cheap powerful cars, the Silvia being fantastic for drifting and the GT-R being an absolute track weapon. Toyota has some very reliable cars, the 4A-GE is a great engine, the BEAMS 3S-GE is a GREAT N/A engine and the 2JZ-GTE is arguably the best production turbocharged engine EVER. Mitsubishi has MIVEC, which is exactly like VTEC, so their FTO does a similar job to a Integra Type R (arguable which is actually better, but I'd say the Type R is for sure) and their Lancer Evoultion is an insane car!

As you see, every brand has something different going for it.



You do know that Lexus is a sub brand of Toyota right? The Lexus IS200 is known as the Toyota Altezza in Japan. So when you say never Toyota, you mean you're second choice to a Honda is Toyota.




I noe the Lexus is a Toyota. But Its got a different badge and more luxurious.
Yea i give up the drifting...

thanks for your replies anyways everyone.

[IAMVTEC]

Euro is not a sports car. What are you doing comparing it to a GTI

[IAMVTEC]

lol u need to get rid of the idea of drifting family sedans :p unless its a jzx100 or something ;) lol

for once I absolutely agree with you.

Get your head fixed guy that started this topic

[WhiteEuro07]

Lexus is the luxury brand for toyota likewise Acura is for Honda and Infiniti is for Nissan. Same company different market.

[aaronng]

Euro is not a sports car. What are you doing comparing it to a GTI

No one said that the Euro was a sports car.

The GTI has the same price, power and weight of the Euro. The Euro has more boot space.

[IAMVTEC]

The guy that started the topic definitely thinks the Euro is a sports car, he was comparing it to a GTI.

I would have thought GTI has more bootspace right? Beause its a hatch and if you fold the back seats then its like a SUV.

[aaronng]

The guy that started the topic definitely thinks the Euro is a sports car, he was comparing it to a GTI.

I would have thought GTI has more bootspace right? Beause its a hatch and if you fold the back seats then its like a SUV.

What part of "boot" don't you understand? If you want to sacrifice the rear seats and fold it down, you can do the same with the Euro as well.

GTI is not a sports car. A sports car sacrifices luxuries or fuel consumption to get ultimate power and/or handling/grip. The GTI is only a passenger hatch. Want to see a real sports car? Golf R32. Sacrifice fuel consumption and price to get ultimate power and grip.

Get the idea that the GTI is a sports car out of your head. It's not powerful, nor does it grip well.

[IAMVTEC]

Correct me if Im wrong but the Euros back seats dont fold down flat. I had my friends Euro for a few days and I could only fold down back seats at 45 degrees.

Thats why I choose Civic over Euro cause Civic Vti folds flat.

[IAMVTEC]

What part of "boot" don't you understand? If you want to sacrifice the rear seats and fold it down, you can do the same with the Euro as well.

GTI is not a sports car. A sports car sacrifices luxuries or fuel consumption to get ultimate power and/or handling/grip. The GTI is only a passenger hatch. Want to see a real sports car? Golf R32. Sacrifice fuel consumption and price to get ultimate power and grip.

Get the idea that the GTI is a sports car out of your head. It's not powerful, nor does it grip well.

Gti is more of a sports car than Euro.

GTI is a higher performance version of an economy car.

Euro IS an economy car.

[aaronng]

Correct me if Im wrong but the Euros back seats dont fold down flat. I had my friends Euro for a few days and I could only fold down back seats at 45 degrees.

Thats why I choose Civic over Euro cause Civic Vti folds flat.

You are meant to take out the rear headrests to get the seat folded down. :zip:

[aaronng]

Gti is more of a sports car than Euro.

GTI is a higher performance version of an economy car.

Euro IS an economy car.

What is the economy golf then? The 1.4L? I can show you the economy Euro, the 2.0L. Or did you mean the Golf TDi? I can show you the Euro CTDi. What else?

As I said, both cars DON'T qualify to be called sports cars. They don't sacrifice anything to gain more power/grip/handling.

[ig3o]

my point is that the euro is basically a camry (but the camry is cheaper lol)

EDIT: K24 is awesome. Euro + K24 is not. 900 kg chassis with k24 is hot!

dude ur making the euro sound like a peice of junk! lol =P

not very nice :eek:

[EUR003act]

dude ur making the euro sound like a peice of junk! lol =P

not very nice :eek:

agreed - note to users:

never liken the euro to a camry! NEVER!

[aaronng]

dude ur making the euro sound like a peice of junk! lol =P

not very nice :eek:
It's a family car. It's no sports car. Its rivals are the 2.5L liberty, 2.4L camry, 2.3L Mazda6 and 2.2L Vectra. To me, it is not a piece of junk and beats all of its rivals. But it's in the same category as a Camry. I can't trick myself and think that the stock Euro will beat or outhandle other cars with a better power to weight ratio.

[r-r-redEuro]

You are meant to take out the rear headrests to get the seat folded down. :zip:

LOL now i know why my seats dont fold down the whole way, and the middle headrest makes that part go higher. LOL

[Suntzu]

I cant believe how clearly I can hear VTEC now with a header and CAI fitted. Can't wait for my flash so I can hit it more often at 5000rpm! :)

[aaronng]

I cant believe how clearly I can hear VTEC now with a header and CAI fitted. Can't wait for my flash so I can hit it more often at 5000rpm! :)

Welcome to the club. :)

[Shraka]

I cant believe how clearly I can hear VTEC now with a header and CAI fitted. Can't wait for my flash so I can hit it more often at 5000rpm! :)

Flash?

[Suntzu]

Jtune Mild Reflash

[Shraka]

Jtune Mild Reflash

Lowering the VTEC engagement point? Or just getting it tuned so you can rev it out? 5000rpm sounds low for VTEC kickover.

[aaronng]

Lowering the VTEC engagement point? Or just getting it tuned so you can rev it out? 5000rpm sounds low for VTEC kickover.

Tuned for 98 RON on a stock car. Mid-range is improved and the optimum VTEC point is 5000rpm.

Jtune extreme reflash includes I/H/E and cat, improvements throughout the range and optimum VTEC point is 3850rpm.

[Dru42]

so could i just get a vtec controller and kick vtec in at 5000rpm?? tuned as well?? would it damge my motor in any way?? been wondering about this for awhile now

[EuroAccord13]

so could i just get a vtec controller and kick vtec in at 5000rpm?? tuned as well?? would it damge my motor in any way?? been wondering about this for awhile now


A VTEC controller is not an optimum and efficient tool to use when it is being tuned on a stock car. Honda's VTEC engagement point is the most efficient in many studies of the VTEC system. That being said, I've seen stock Hondas tuned with the VAFCii that gained 3-5Kws at the wheels.. It also comes down to how good the tuner is.

[Dru42]

That being said, I've seen stock Hondas tuned with the VAFCii that gained 3-5Kws at the wheels.. It also comes down to how good the tuner is.

is that a good thing tho? only gainin 3-5kws?? i know its not a bang for your back mod.... but it would be nicer to have more vtec......

i was thinking about it, but im unsure.... but if its not gonna make too much of a difference id rather not do it that way and save up and do it properly

still kinda new and getting used to hondas.... i was a nissan person, but now convereted over haha

[aaronng]

On a stock car with no tuning, having "more vtec" means having a slower car. :)

The VAFCii's gain is small because it can only alter A/F ratios and vtec point. It can't alter ignition timing and VTC.

[Merlin086]

It's a family car. It's no sports car. Its rivals are the 2.5L liberty, 2.4L camry, 2.3L Mazda6 and 2.2L Vectra. To me, it is not a piece of junk and beats all of its rivals. But it's in the same category as a Camry. I can't trick myself and think that the stock Euro will beat or outhandle other cars with a better power to weight ratio.

What has handling to do with power to weight ratio?

And why would you track a family car. I suggest you may be dissapointed in the perfomance of a euro if you intend to use it for a race car....coz it seems your expectations are way too high!!

[aaronng]

What has handling to do with power to weight ratio?

And why would you track a family car. I suggest you may be dissapointed in the perfomance of a euro if you intend to use it for a race car....coz it seems your expectations are way too high!!
I was responding to IAMVTEC's post that we thought the Euro was a sports car. It's just a family car. I was posting my experiences on the track. :)

[Merlin086]

I was responding to IAMVTEC's post that we thought the Euro was a sports car. It's just a family car. I was posting my experiences on the track. :)

If, due to your experiences on the track, you are of the belief that power to weight ratio has any bearing on handling, I suggest you give up tracking immediately.


Your statement implies the following....

A drag car would handle extremely well.
If I mod my engine my car will handle better.

Get real Aarong, stop making such inaccurate statements!!!

[aaronng]

If, due to your experiences on the track, you are of the belief that power to weight ratio has any bearing on handling, I suggest you give up tracking immediately.


Your statement implies the following....

A drag car would handle extremely well.
If I mod my engine my car will handle better.

Get real Aarong, stop making such inaccurate statements!!!

I get what you mean. I should have worded it as "beat other cars with a better power to weight ratio or outhandle sports cars".

But point taken, I did not express what I was thinking accurately. :)

[ginganggooly]

Gti is more of a sports car than Euro.

GTI is a higher performance version of an economy car.

Euro IS an economy car.


Funnily enough, the last track day i went to had a turnout from vwvortex, and the golf v and polo gti's there were lapping at about the same times as my stock euro.

I don't know how much more speed was left in the vw's but my euro had at least another second or two.

[d15z1SUX]

euro's have some potential... just look at the phase euro r in BMI.

[tron07]

Wonder what car is the :p


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y258/tron07/2006SEMAAutoShowTimeAttackEuroHonda.jpg

[johnprocter]

yeah i heard euro has a lot of potential

[BusterSonic12]

yep, people say about of potential in tuning. mentioned it in best motoring international vtecclub i think

[aaronng]

Potential in handling. It's still a heavy car. Strip everything out to make it 1200kg and it will be FAST.

[Shraka]

There's a lot of difference between something that's got potential, and something that's got potential while still remaining nice to day drive.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Euro is awesome. I just wish it was RWD. It'd be my car of choice in a few years, once I need a bigger car. :D

[dsp26]

Speaking of (sporty) Family car category... new Aurion Sportivo is faaaast.... so was that tarago with the same engine :p

[aaronng]

I drove the Aurion (my cousin has one) and you can tell that the engine is tuned for fuel economy numbers. At partial throttle and below 3000rpm, it feels like the Euro, eventhough it has 1.1L extra capacity and supposedly more torque. It's only when you put the pedal to the metal AND exceed 3000rpm, does the Aurion go fast. I suspect they did it this way so that they could achieve very low EPA fuel consumption figures, which are all carried out at "normal" low RPM anyway.

[sprmboi]

There's a lot of difference between something that's got potential, and something that's got potential while still remaining nice to day drive.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Euro is awesome. I just wish it was RWD. It'd be my car of choice in a few years, once I need a bigger car. :D

Oh yea, i wish it was RWD....:thumbsup:


Btw guy, check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Electric-Supercharger-Add-Huge-HP-Fits-Any-Vehicle_W0QQitemZ320175246618QQihZ011QQcategoryZ43 807QQcmdZViewItem

Is this good stuff for the Euro? I mean I dun wanna spend too much cash to mod it.

[BusterSonic12]

Oh yea, i wish it was RWD....:thumbsup:


Btw guy, check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Electric-Supercharger-Add-Huge-HP-Fits-Any-Vehicle_W0QQitemZ320175246618QQihZ011QQcategoryZ43 807QQcmdZViewItem

Is this good stuff for the Euro? I mean I dun wanna spend too much cash to mod it.

wtf is that lol
if don't wanna spend too much then maybe your best choice is hondata.
maybe k20 head? or comptech super charger??

[Merlin086]

Oh yea, i wish it was RWD....:thumbsup:


Btw guy, check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Electric-Supercharger-Add-Huge-HP-Fits-Any-Vehicle_W0QQitemZ320175246618QQihZ011QQcategoryZ43 807QQcmdZViewItem

Is this good stuff for the Euro? I mean I dun wanna spend too much cash to mod it.

Might be a slight help at low revs but alll it's going to do at high revs is restrict your airflow.

Don't waste your money unless you want less power!

[aaronng]

Oh yea, i wish it was RWD....:thumbsup:


Btw guy, check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Electric-Supercharger-Add-Huge-HP-Fits-Any-Vehicle_W0QQitemZ320175246618QQihZ011QQcategoryZ43 807QQcmdZViewItem

Is this good stuff for the Euro? I mean I dun wanna spend too much cash to mod it.
Waste of money. You can group it with those fuel saver magnet thingies and the tornado tin fin thingy that goes in the intake.

[Pumped]

Electric Supercharger pwns all

[aaronng]

DC motors don't do well when they come up against pressure head. They lose flowrate very quickly at above 1 atm.

[Shraka]

Oh yea, i wish it was RWD....:thumbsup:


Btw guy, check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Electric-Supercharger-Add-Huge-HP-Fits-Any-Vehicle_W0QQitemZ320175246618QQihZ011QQcategoryZ43 807QQcmdZViewItem

Is this good stuff for the Euro? I mean I dun wanna spend too much cash to mod it.

HA HA HA! Oh man. You know how much horsepower a Supercharger or Turbocharger needs to create a decent amount of positive displacement?
Do you know how much power your average alternator can provide?

The Mercedes McLaren SLR makes 13psi for a 5.4ltr engine, and requires 89kw (120bhp) to do it! So lets take your 2.4ltr engine and so some (very basic) maths. 89kw / 5.4ltrs = 16.4kw/ltr. 15.6/13psi = 1.26kw/ltr per psi. So to even get 2psi out of that thing, it would require around 6kw according to my very rough calculations. To get anything more useful, like 5psi you're looking at more like 15kw.

The average alternator produces ~0.5kw depending on car, and that has to run a whole bunch of stuff, so you don't get anywhere near all of it to use.

[aaronng]

A turbo takes under 1kW :) It uses wasted kinetic energy in the exhaust gas.

[akina]

^^^ huh?

Can I get a clearer explanation?

Thanks Aaron :)

[aaronng]

^^^ huh?

Can I get a clearer explanation?

Thanks Aaron :)

A turbocharger uses the flowrate of your exhaust gas. It's all wasted out the exhaust tip anyway.

[EUR003act]

only downside to turbo is they create back pressure...

[aaronng]

only downside to turbo is they create back pressure...

Not a problem if you are starting with a stock car. The stock header and exhaust has a lot of resistance, so the backpressure can be very similar to that of a turbo. Also, you might lose than 3-5kW from backpressure, but you gain many more kWs in the end. :)

[sprmboi]

HA HA HA! Oh man. You know how much horsepower a Supercharger or Turbocharger needs to create a decent amount of positive displacement?
Do you know how much power your average alternator can provide?

The Mercedes McLaren SLR makes 13psi for a 5.4ltr engine, and requires 89kw (120bhp) to do it! So lets take your 2.4ltr engine and so some (very basic) maths. 89kw / 5.4ltrs = 16.4kw/ltr. 15.6/13psi = 1.26kw/ltr per psi. So to even get 2psi out of that thing, it would require around 6kw according to my very rough calculations. To get anything more useful, like 5psi you're looking at more like 15kw.

The average alternator produces ~0.5kw depending on car, and that has to run a whole bunch of stuff, so you don't get anywhere near all of it to use.

I'm lost here man...dun worry...i'm newB.

So I wanna ask, if i install cold air intake, do i need to change the mufflers as well? Or they say i need to widen the pipe to make sure that the air flow is maximum to avoid bottleneck?

Btw, can u guys in Sydney suggest me which mods shop i can go to? Cheap price, good stuff...

[EUR003act]

Not a problem if you are starting with a stock car. The stock header and exhaust has a lot of resistance, so the backpressure can be very similar to that of a turbo. Also, you might lose than 3-5kW from backpressure, but you gain many more kWs in the end. :)

100% true

[aaronng]

I'm lost here man...dun worry...i'm newB.

So I wanna ask, if i install cold air intake, do i need to change the mufflers as well? Or they say i need to widen the pipe to make sure that the air flow is maximum to avoid bottleneck?

Btw, can u guys in Sydney suggest me which mods shop i can go to? Cheap price, good stuff...

You change intake if you want induction roar, you change muffler if you want a different or louder exhaust sound. Change the header if you want gains all throughout the rev range.

None of the shops are cheap. The cheapest way is to do your own research, buy the parts from traders, ebay or overseas shosp and install them yourself (or buy your mate a carton of beer or give him cash to get him to install it for you).

[sprmboi]

You change intake if you want induction roar, you change muffler if you want a different or louder exhaust sound. Change the header if you want gains all throughout the rev range.

None of the shops are cheap. The cheapest way is to do your own research, buy the parts from traders, ebay or overseas shosp and install them yourself (or buy your mate a carton of beer or give him cash to get him to install it for you).

hehehe...thanks man. Will do my own research.

[aaronng]

hehehe...thanks man. Will do my own research.

Search the Accord Euro sections. There are heaps of Euro mod discussion and part review threads in there.

[blk05gli]

It's a family car. It's no sports car. Its rivals are the 2.5L liberty, 2.4L camry, 2.3L Mazda6 and 2.2L Vectra. To me, it is not a piece of junk and beats all of its rivals. But it's in the same category as a Camry. I can't trick myself and think that the stock Euro will beat or outhandle other cars with a better power to weight ratio.

don't forget the holden epica !!!

(rolls around laughing!!!)

[Shraka]

A turbo takes under 1kW :) It uses wasted kinetic energy in the exhaust gas.

Actually from a physics point of view it still requires a similar amount of energy, the energy is just mostly waste energy that exists in your exhaust manifold regardless of if you have a turbocharger or not. A Supercharger however takes all of it's energy directly from the crank. My point was demonstrating how much power an electric supercharger would require, so I was talking about the energy required to spin the turbine, now how much power it steals from the engine.

I was obviously not clear enough though, so thanks for clearing it up for others. I added turbocharger in there because I didn't want people saying "But it's a snail like a turbocharger" and then having to explain that a turbocharger still needs energy, it just gets it from somewhere else.


I'm lost here man...dun worry...i'm newB.

It's pretty simple. To create positive pressure you require an amount of energy (to move the air, then to overcome the air trying to reach equilibrium). Your average car's electric power supply cannot produce enough power to create even 0.5psi, let alone 2psi.

Having said that there was an interesting setup that used a seperate battery, charged off your alternator that would supply power to an electric turbocharger only when you press a button. This would act more like a NO2 shot, in that it would give you an extra 2-4psi for a short time until it's battery had run dry. The problems with this are obvious: Batteries are heavy - I think he needed two car sized batteries to get enough power. And when you're not 'boosting', you have an extra restriction in the intake at no gain. Also there's the extra power drain from your alternator when off boost to charge your extra batteries.

[nvmee]

so this is the post that IAMVTEC was telling me about ahhahahhaha

[DLRioM]

Speaking of euros potential..... im looking at jtunes sight and am impressed by the 160kws (on the assumption this is at the wheels) through airflow and tuning.... what are ppls thoughts on this mod? im thinking ill start saving for it.

[BusterSonic12]

Speaking of euros potential..... im looking at jtunes sight and am impressed by the 160kws (on the assumption this is at the wheels) through airflow and tuning.... what are ppls thoughts on this mod? im thinking ill start saving for it.

it's at the hub not wheel
also here's a post talking about it
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21343&page=92

[johnprocter]

what i thought it was at the wheel are you sure?

[johnprocter]

and just curious when does VTEC kick in on a stock euro anyhow?

[blk05gli]

6000 - 7100

[EUR003act]

and just curious when does VTEC kick in on a stock euro anyhow?

6000 high cams engage

[sodaz]

what i thought it was at the wheel are you sure?

Yep it's at the hub and the hub dynos read a fair bit higher than the roller dynos. A stock manual Euro typically makes around 105kw on a roller dyno but according to the Jtune website makes 125kw on the hub dyno. 160kw on the hub probably translates to 135ish kw on the roller dyno. My guess is that the I/H/E adds 20kw atw and the reflash adds another 10kw atw.

[DLRioM]

Regardless of whether its at the hub or wheels the dyno chart shows an impressive increase throughout the rev range. But 5k? im tempted and will probably go through with it next year or so but for 5k its not an easy decision

[aaronng]

Get BACK ON TOPIC please...

[N3M3SIS]

hey guys just lookin at the Jtune Web site
and as for J tune Xtream, Regardless, the dyno reads a increase of 52.6kw over a stock run, which is quite impressive, also a Gain of 77.6 Nm of Torque.
i'd get the Jtune, but i cant afford to void my warrenty at the moment =(

http://www.jtune.com.au/dyno.html
Stock vs Extream

[tony1234]

hey guys just lookin at the Jtune Web site
and as for J tune Xtream, Regardless, the dyno reads a increase of 52.6kw over a stock run, which is quite impressive, also a Gain of 77.6 Nm of Torque.
i'd get the Jtune, but i cant afford to void my warrenty at the moment =(

http://www.jtune.com.au/dyno.html
Stock vs Extream
Remember the figures quoted are at the hub not at the wheel.regardless they are still impressive.

[N3M3SIS]

tTrue they do use a Hub Dyno, but its the % increase, if they do a stock run @ 100kw's then another run @ 158kw's then there is still a 50+kw gain,
if it was a roller dyno, it might be 80kw@ wheels to 138kw@ wheels, so there is still a massive gain.
but im not that experiences, so i think thats the way it would work.... wouldnt it =P

[DLRioM]

Its more like an increase of around 35-38kws.
100kw @wheels = 120kw @hub to 138kw @wheels = 158kws @hub