Intake Manifold Maintenance.

[VTEChnique]

Apon inspection of my NEW motor, I have noticed that on the IM side of the [acronym:24a63e24a5="Throttle Body"]TB[/acronym:24a63e24a5], it is EXTREMELY grubby and grimey.. Prob thanks to lovely CLEAN Japanese Air..

Anyway, I want to remove the IM completely from the Motor so I can clean the inside of the IM before the engine is installed in my car..


1. is this OK to do ?

2. do I need to use a torque-wrench to re-install the IM after I've finished ?

3. Do I need to get a new IM Gasket If I remove the IM ?

4. Any suggestions of HOW to clean the inside ?


Any Help greatly appreciated.

[Weq]

easiest way to clean everything would be to use carby cleaner + a tooth brush. u can take off the throttle body and get better access if u want, but i dont see the point of taking it off the motor. Just uise a good 1/2 of cleaner to clean up all the carbon buildup. U will get a lil smoke/sputter on the inital startup, but it will clearup in a fwe seconds.

[VTEChnique]

hmm well that's SIMILAR to how I was going to do it, but i dont want to fill the cyllinders with all that crap.. dont want the cough splutter.. and want to clean from both ends if you know what I mean.. want it shiny like a new one HAAHHAA

plus another reason I want to take it right off is so I can take it inside and do it while watching TV etc HAHAHA - too cold outside at night HAHAHA

[SPEEDCORE]

Sorry not trying to highjack but rolling the ball along with info on cleaning IM........ on the B series engines the coolant circulates though the IM too doesn't it?

[VTEChnique]

ACTUALLY.. good point.. I think it only circulates through the [acronym:9288c71ee3="Throttle Body"]TB[/acronym:9288c71ee3] off the top of my head.. (not the IM) but I'll take a look tonight..

But also on THIS point, does anyone have links to a DIY re-route coolant AWAY from the [acronym:9288c71ee3="Throttle Body"]TB[/acronym:9288c71ee3] ? ([acronym:9288c71ee3="Throttle Body"]TB[/acronym:9288c71ee3] coolant Bypass)

[SPEEDCORE]

ACTUALLY.. good point.. I think it only circulates through the [acronym:cb3b846e55="Throttle Body"]TB[/acronym:cb3b846e55] off the top of my head.. (not the IM) but I'll take a look tonight..

But also on THIS point, does anyone have links to a DIY re-route coolant AWAY from the [acronym:cb3b846e55="Throttle Body"]TB[/acronym:cb3b846e55] ? ([acronym:cb3b846e55="Throttle Body"]TB[/acronym:cb3b846e55] coolant Bypass)

I too want to know if doing a coolant re route would have any other problems, like at start up because...... I believe the Hondata intake gasket is a good thing... but question the actual effectiveness of it since there is coolant running though....... it would be recieving heat from the coolant, and although possibly not as much heat as the actual contact of the head metal to the IM metal.. it still can heat up considerably........

Opinions.

[VTEChnique]

SPEEDCORE - the Hondata Heatshield IM Gasket actually comes with instructions on how to re-route the coolant from the [acronym:cc193261c3="Throttle Body"]TB[/acronym:cc193261c3].. it reccomends you do it also when installing the heat-shield gasket to improove it's effectiveness.

[SPEEDCORE]

Oh ok...... :oops:

Kool at least they encourage you to do so!!

[VTEChnique]

yeah but makes you wonder HOW effective the heatshield IS.. would love to know the difference between re-routed coolant lines and stock gasket and then Hondata without re-routed Lines.. hmmm

[Toby]

1. is this OK to do?

Sure is there is nothing wrong with getting rid of all that carbon build up to improve flow.


2. do I need to use a torque-wrench to re-install the IM after I've finished?

I dident but check a user manual just to be sure.


3. Do I need to get a new IM Gasket If I remove the IM?

My old one was really brittle, but I was changing every gasket, seal and fluid anyway.


4. Any suggestions of HOW to clean the inside?

Degreaser or carbi cleaner works best.

[VTEChnique]

hmm I'll look in the manual.. I only have the [acronym:1b364c847b="Single Overhead Cam"]SOHC[/acronym:1b364c847b] manual though, but I guess there'd be no difference in relation to what I'm doing..

will try the de-greaser.. not a fan of carby-cleaner - even though it's prob the same stuff diff can HAHAH

[Weq]

carby cleaner is not harmful in any way to ur 02 sensor or engine. its perfertly fine. If u clean the runners up, u will need to port match ur work, otherwise u will get bad/non-smooth flow. this means attached the carbon ont he head also.

[tinkerbell]

LOL, it will just get dirty again!

if you wanna keep it clean, check your PCV system for answers to WHY it is getting so dirty???

[tinkerbell]

perhaps install an oil catch-can?

(any excuse to do mods is a good excuse, LOL!)

[crx_16x]

What Tinkerbell said.

The [acronym:320e5f708e="Throttle Body"]TB[/acronym:320e5f708e] is not getting dirty from the "lovely CLEAN Japanese Air" but from oil from the PCV system.

Perfect justification for spending money on a nice shiny oil catch can!!

[SPEEDCORE]

Have seen posts on other Honda-based forums about the Hondata gasket, melting/deforming, (presumably from heat) and the potential to impead flow because intuding into the runners/ports.

Has anyone experiece with this here in OZ??

[tinkerbell]

if you are running that much heat to melt the phelolic material Hondata uses then you have got wayyyyy morte problems than just the gasket. (or you have a fake gasket, LOL)

my custom phenolic intake gasket is about 10mm thick, 12mm thick when you consider the two gaskets on each side.

this moves the injectors back about half an inch, but does not impede flow, especially at almost 60psi fuel pressure...

i have been reliably told that spacers of upto an inch thick have been used in touring car applications....

sorry for the OT...

[SPEEDCORE]

hmmmm what gaskets do you have on each side of the Hondata styled one you got?? the OEM ones?

Like I said... I found this surprising considering the type of material we are making reference to.

Yesterday evening after work, got home after short 10 min max drive and opened the bonnet to touch test the temp of the IM... was warm.. not burning hot though. The actual chassis brace was alot hotter than the IM.

Bearing in mind that it is a stock B16.

[tinkerbell]

the phenolic material i used is similar to bakalite, and is more heat resistant than the Hondata one, but it is very hard and surfaces are shiny, hence the two OEM gaskets on each surface.

[Weq]

most of the reason why u clean the IM is to get rid of carbon buildup, no oils that the PCV system releases....

[tinkerbell]

how does *carbon* get inot the IM dude?!?!?!?!

no combustion takes place in there, LOL

unless you have serious backfire issues!

[VTEChnique]

yeah I am installing an oil-breather can when swap goes down..

am getting quote on hondata heatshield gasket while i'm removing the IM..

my [acronym:b1f106dd54="Single Overhead Cam"]SOHC[/acronym:b1f106dd54] manual doesnt mention what to do with the injectors while removing the IM.. do I just leave then in there while cleaning the inside of the IM ?

[eknine]

get the hondata gasket from the states...cheaper:)

edit: that what i found out from my mate from singapore. He bought it when he was in the states and i don't know if it helps but i'm sure it would coz it pretty humid in singapore :)

[VTEChnique]

REALLY ? I emailed James to ask him first.. want to do the right thing..

[VTEChnique]

REALLY ? I emailed James to ask him first.. want to do the right thing..

[tinkerbell]

yeah I am installing an oil-breather can when swap goes down..

am getting quote on hondata heatshield gasket while i'm removing the IM..

my [acronym:b0efca925c="Single Overhead Cam"]SOHC[/acronym:b0efca925c] manual doesnt mention what to do with the injectors while removing the IM.. do I just leave then in there while cleaning the inside of the IM ?

you will probably wnat to take em out to clean their tips so make sure you order some new Honda "fuel injector o-rings" for re-assembly...

just the top o-rings as the bottom injector 'seats' should be OK to re-use...

[Weq]

how does *carbon* get inot the IM dude?!?!?!?!

no combustion takes place in there, LOL

unless you have serious backfire issues!

I dont know how it gets there, but its there. Around the [acronym:63934ea0a4="Throttle Body"]TB[/acronym:63934ea0a4] butterfly and alot the entries tot he ports.

[tinkerbell]

how does *carbon* get inot the IM dude?!?!?!?!

no combustion takes place in there, LOL

unless you have serious backfire issues!

I dont know how it gets there, but its there. Around the [acronym:ccb5f915f1="Throttle Body"]TB[/acronym:ccb5f915f1] butterfly and alot the entries tot he ports.

OK, well just so you know, that is OIL from the PCV system being spread through-out the intake manifold...

and yes - if anyone wants to get technical, it IS carbon based...

but is not the same as the 'naughty carbon' that causes problems, it just *looks* unsightly...

[VTEChnique]

Yeah some of the oil buildup from the PCV may actually carbonise from the long-term exposure to heat.. but yeah it's not the same as carbon build-ups on post-combustion chamber side of business..

[Weq]

ok i can accept that explanation.. !

[VTEChnique]

haha heveryone was right Weq hahaha

so where can I get Hondata heat-shield gasket ? need contacts.. James hasnt got back to me..

am going to trry to remove the IM tonight if it doesnt get dark too early ( I have no garage.. )

[tinkerbell]

hint: you might want to try going up from where the oil filter is to get the middle lower nuts,

and use Blue-Tac on the socket to avoid dropping the nuts into the nether regions of the engine when you are putting the IM back on...

[VTEChnique]

engine is OUT of car so should be a little easier to remove and replace..

though I am considering just swapping the motor in next week with dirty IM and all.. because Hondata gasket will take a week or so to get here.. but then I guess it'd be hard to remove it with engine in the car ??

[Weq]

not really.

[bennjamin]

to add....intake manifold gasket is sometimes alittle biyt difficult to remove - both holding the intake mani on and once its off too - Im currently rebuilding a D16 sitting in my garage and it took quite awhile of small tapping around to finally remove it *grr*

[VTEChnique]

hmm think i may just swap the motor in and look at it with my stage one mods..

depends how bored i get on the weekend hahaha..

[Rufes1]

Mate,

all you need to do is clean around the butterfly. The problem of build up is it can seal up the tiny gap the butterfly has around the throttle body. When this happens the ic motor can shit itselfs and you will get a rough or wavey idle.

There are other problems it can cause but this is the most common.

I like Wurth's System cleaner or a decent carby cleaner. Dont be worried about it going through the motor, it wont harm anything. If your going to use degreaser you will have to take the IM off. And remember degreaser has to be washed off with water after using, unlike carby or system cleaner...