broken teeth in gearbox

[nEUROleptic]

i was driving around town the other day and heard this strange knocking noise coming from under the car.the noise was not there when my foot was on the clutch and only happened while in gear so i was fairly confident it was gearbox/diff area.
booked it in to the local dealer and they say its probably a broken tooth in either gearbox or crown gear.took it to another shop for 2nd opinion and they say the same thing.
just my luck the warranty has run out (in Dec 06) but my car has only done 43000k's and regularly serviced at Honda.
so i was wondering how common is this for a euro (or any other car) and what sort of costs and dramas can i expect???

[EuroDude]

This is the first time Ive heard of it so I doubt its a common problem. The only common issues in the tranny area are a whining clutch sound when riding the clutch, and a tricky 1st->2nd gear change.

Removing the gearbox, opening it up, and replacing the damaged parts can cost around $1000 or higher depending on what needs replacing. If the clutch has been thrashed and ridden a lot, you might wanna get them to check how much clutch is left and replace it if needed. That would save you money in the long run.

[aaronng]

It's not common, unless you shift forcefully.

[luxobarge]

just a few things i noticed in your post...

"strange knocking noise coming from under the car.the noise was not there when my foot was on the clutch and only happened while in gear "

IMO that sorta rules out the diff and quite possible the tranny... regardless if the clutch is in or out the tranny and diff are still rotating... which means the noise should still be present unless it only happens when under pressure.

Does it happen in all gears or just the one?
All speeds?
When accelerating or when kept at a constant speed?

Maybe put the car up on axle stand and try to pin point the noise.

[aaronng]

just a few things i noticed in your post...

"strange knocking noise coming from under the car.the noise was not there when my foot was on the clutch and only happened while in gear "

IMO that sorta rules out the diff and quite possible the tranny... regardless if the clutch is in or out the tranny and diff are still rotating... which means the noise should still be present unless it only happens when under pressure.

Not really, when you have the clutch in, there is no torque on the input shaft side, so it hides the clunking.

[JasonGilholme]

regardless if the clutch is in or out the tranny and diff are still rotating...

this is only true if your car is moving. If the car is at a stand still the gear box wont spin when your foot is on the clutch.

[nEUROleptic]

Does it happen in all gears or just the one?
All speeds?
When accelerating or when kept at a constant speed?[/QUOTE]

It was in all gears at all speeds, all the time,accel-decel-constant

the worst thing is by the time i drove it home from the dealers there was more metal crunching, more jerking and more noise and now its totally undriveable.

i never flogged my car and its never been on the track/drags


[QUOTE]Not really, when you have the clutch in, there is no torque on the input shaft side, so it hides the clunking.

i think this is what was happening.the mechanic tried to explain but i'm a noob so i didnt really understand

[luxobarge]

Not really, when you have the clutch in, there is no torque on the input shaft side, so it hides the clunking.
Yeah i tried to add that but couldnt quite think of the right wording.

this is only true if your car is moving.
Well duh Jason :-p


nEUROleptic
Have you checked to make sure the wheels are on tight?
Sounds stupid yes but i've been fooled a few times before thinking it was the diff (mainly because i was aldready having issues with it (this was in an mx5)).
And in the euro i thought it may have been CV's because i had just been to a track day the day before.

[JasonGilholme]

Well duh Jason :-p


hehe

I think i assumed his car was standing still where you assumed it was movin :thumbsup::thumbsup:

:beer:

[luxobarge]

hehe

I think i assumed his car was standing still where you assumed it was movin :thumbsup::thumbsup:

:beer:

Indeed...

My assumption > Your assumption

:p

[JasonGilholme]

Indeed...

My assumption > Your assumption

:p

BAHAHAHA

We'll have drink over it :thumbsup: :beer:

[NSPYRE]

Yeah i

And in the euro i thought it may have been CV's because i had just been to a track day the day before.

bit off topic, but this didnt happen to be at wakefield on monday of this week did it? i saw a silver euro running, thats all...

[luxobarge]

bit off topic, but this didnt happen to be at wakefield on monday of this week did it? i saw a silver euro running, thats all...
I wish i was at wakefield... this was a few months ago at Queensland Raceway.

[nEUROleptic]

back on topic......


Have you checked to make sure the wheels are on tight?
Sounds stupid yes but i've been fooled a few times before thinking it was the diff (mainly because i was aldready having issues with it (this was in an mx5)).
And in the euro i thought it may have been CV's because i had just been to a track day the day before.


these were the first things i thought of too


the car goes to the Honda shop on Monday and they're going to strip it down then let me know what the problem is and the cost of parts and labour

[nEUROleptic]

update:

the honda dealer has finally found time to pull my gearbox apart (what a struggle that was)

also some paperwork has been sent to Honda Australia to see what they can do about covering some costs (maybe parts but prob. not labour) cos even though its out of warranty the dealer believes a 4 yr old car with only 43000kms shouldn't have gearbox problems

[PNR888]

How you go with warranty claim re: fixing up the gearbox?

[nEUROleptic]

YAY!!!!
finally got my car back.the problem was found to be "teeth missing off diff crown wheel and off most gears,also metal fragments throughout gearbox". They ended up replacing the whole gearbox. Honda decided to pay half the cost of gearbox as "good will to customer" ,although i had to pay for labour as well.

total cost to me = $2400

money that i didn't really have

[JasonGilholme]

so how much of that is labour and how much is towards the gear box??

that means a brand new gear box is around 3000 - 4000 yeah??

[nEUROleptic]

cost price for a gearbox is $2600 so half would be $1300
plus 11 hours labour @ $100/hr = $2400

[HondaTechy]

try and ask for good will.or try and take out extened warranty

[nEUROleptic]

i thought about extended warranty but i came to the conclusion "I've had no dramas in the first three years, everything should be ok "

such is life

[aaronng]

11 hours? It doesn't take 11 hours to replace a gearbox, unless they charged you for the initial disassembly to determine the cause of the problem. Even so, it won't take 11 hours to remove a gearbox, disassemble the casing and look at the gears.

[badthing]

Sounds like he paid for the gearbox after all & Honda Australia just didn't charge for labour.

[hotout]

11 hours? It doesn't take 11 hours to replace a gearbox, unless they charged you for the initial disassembly to determine the cause of the problem. Even so, it won't take 11 hours to remove a gearbox, disassemble the casing and look at the gears.

it's like how lawyers charge. I'd bet my next pay packet that 90% of labour charged at dealerships is overstated. If you total num of hours worked for all their mechs, vs what was billed to a customer on a particular day, you'd find latter will definitely be higher.

[yourfather]

as a novice, if you gave me the instructions, I could replace a gearbox in less than 11 hours, and would do it for 1/2 the price

[shadou]

obviously you guys haven't seen some of the people they hire as technicians now-a-days. I believe it could take some dumb shit 11 hours to pull a box out and put it back in + ripping it apart and inspecting it, probably the first year fresh from tafe :p

[nEUROleptic]

unless they charged you for the initial disassembly to determine the cause of the problem.

this is exactly what they charged me for although i dont know how they came up with this figure either.Considering they did a little bit of work "whenever they could find some spare time" over three weeks.

The gearbox shop i took it to also said for a standard remove/replace i could expect 8 hrs labour, so 3 hrs for diagnosis i suppose