Boost + Nitrous ?

[Sexc86]

Gday all

with much amazement i have not founda anything in my searches on ozhonda about this topic. But surely someone out there would have tried or contemplateed running nitrous & boost on the same setup?

Basically i am considering running nitrous on my setup [off the street of course] but not sure of the possibilities, paths and repircussions of such a setup. The engine i am building (if you have not allready seen is below), is a completely build d16 block with darton sleeves, built head + big snail etc etc

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64558

what are the requirements on running nitrious on such a setup? are there any guidelines to follow? should there be any spray on boost? or only off boost to decrease boost lag? should only specific shots of boost (hp) be run per Psi of boost ? what is tuneing and management like? usually is hondata about to controll such a setup or is a external management needed purely to controll spray? also wet or dry?

think thats about it, any other comments, advice and / or questions more then welcome

Regards Lyle

[grumpy rooster]

You really need to ask yourself what you want the nitrous for? Is it:

to get more power
help with spooling up the turbo
acting as a cooling agent
wank factor
some of the above
all of the above


Depending on which one(s) of the above applies determines what setup you should have.

[Sexc86]

generally for more power, but if i can get the others like... cooling and better spooling that is good too.

oh you know me i just want the nos purgers hanging out of the front bar sprayin that shit everywhere yo!

[grumpy rooster]

In that case I'd probably just go for a single injector wet kit (ie nitrous and fuel). Run a 50hp shot and set it via rpm switch to come on at say 3000rpm and stay on until just before redline. If you only wanted it to spool the turbo I'd switch it off once the turbo makes full boost (whatever rpm that may be).

In the case of a turbo engine the nitrous will have a cooling effect on the intake charge so may find you actually get greater gains with that shot than what you would on an NA engine. If your going for absolute outright power then go for a direct port wet kit and run 100+hp gas. If your going this direction then I'd also run a separate fuel system just for the nitrous. ie complete setup from the tank to the nitrous rails. For this much hp I'd also recommend going the full bottle warmer and pressure switches.

For either system I'd also use a fuel pressure switch as a safety. So if the fuel pressure drops below a certain psi the nitrous system switches off preventing (you hope) a dangerous lean situation.

I must warn you though, nitrous is addictive. :D It comes on hard unless you are using a progressive controller. I had a 80hp nitrous shot on my 205GTi and it was nuts. Made the car a complete animal. It was great. Nothing like it. I highly recommend it. The only problem with nitrous is that it is so widely criticised as an engine destroyer by people that have never used it or never been in a car that has it. Those are the people that claim its shit because it blows engines. It is just like any other form of induction and requires proper setup and tuning.

Have fun. :)

[Sexc86]

thanks alot for the info man, if the pq system was still around you would have one from me for sure!

[tekung89]

do it for the wank factor :D

[Muzz]

WOAH no more pq system??

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

do it for the wank factor :D
i'm doing it for the wank factor

[Sexc86]

nah bro check site discussions.... people have been abbuseing it to get the rep score up.... i wonder who! (not aiming it at you muzz)

i believe now only mods have the power to give Rep points

[Sexc86]

Ok guys. Basically what is the kit to use? WET or DRY? anyone got any pros and cons. James from hondata has been suggesting that Dry is the go and much safer too.

As wet due to being mixed with your fuel, you get random variations of fuel when spraying but does not need a aftermarket ecu with tune.

Dry however being the go as your fuel remains constant however is needed to be tuned in with your setup via a tuneable aftermarket ecu... eg hondata etc

would anyone like to argu this?

Lyle

[grumpy rooster]

I'll stand by what I posted above. I'd only ever use wet kits. The answer really lies with how much power you want the nitrous to supply. Dry kits don't come in big hp shots (as far as I'm aware). Also, if your chasing decent hp with it then your injectors are going to have to have a heap more head room for when the nitrous is used. ie, if say they are at 70% duty cycle when the nitrous is off, how much will it be when it is on? Over 80%?

What brand are you going to use? May I suggest a NOS brand kit. Some of the other brands may look flashy and offer what seem to be great things, but lack support here in Oz. When it comes time to need parts or info the NOS brand gear is much more widely available and most tuners have experience with them. Other brands are not so widely used. I've seen a few people get caught out like this.

[aaronng]

If James says that dry is safer, I wonder what was he on at the time....... :thumbdwn:
For the same shot, wet is safer than dry. Dry is just cheaper to install.

[Sexc86]

thanks as alwayes for the helpfull reply mate... injector size shouldnt be a problem as im running 750cc injectors. main thing thats most important is the safety of the setup to me. i would be after as much safe / reliable power as possible from the spray with full boost (20 - 30psi) which i guessing could be anywhere between 50 - 100shot

what do you think is the safest and most reliable darren?

ps.. also i do appreciate peoples oninions but rather then just saying A is Better then B... could give some examples why... eg Dry Nos is Safer / better then Wet because.... etc etc etc

[aaronng]

Wet is better than dry because a wet system has its accompanying amount of fuel for that shot so you have the right proportion of fuel even in the case of maxing your injectors or having an untuned bolt on nitrous system. The downside is that since it is spraying fuel before the injector point (which is designed to have fuel sprayed in without pooling), fuel can collect in the manifold.

[d15z1SUX]

if you want total wank factor u could just have a bottle hooked up to purge and nothing else. lol hahaha.

[Sexc86]

lol imageing getting defected for a 'dummy' bottle of nos.... oh man that would suck

[aimre]

Gday all

with much amazement i have not founda anything in my searches on ozhonda about this topic. But surely someone out there would have tried or contemplateed running nitrous & boost on the same setup?

Wait, how does that suprise you?:confused:

[Sexc86]

well its not a very unique thing... many many boosted cars out there seem to be useing nitrous... just dont see why there has been a discussion here on ozhonda about it :(

[aaronng]

That's because most ppl here shy away from nitrous because of the (false) image that it is a surefire way to destroy your engine. It'll work great when you do it properly. Too bad it's not legal though.

[grumpy rooster]

thanks as alwayes for the helpfull reply mate... injector size shouldnt be a problem as im running 750cc injectors. main thing thats most important is the safety of the setup to me. i would be after as much safe / reliable power as possible from the spray with full boost (20 - 30psi) which i guessing could be anywhere between 50 - 100shot

what do you think is the safest and most reliable darren?

ps.. also i do appreciate peoples oninions but rather then just saying A is Better then B... could give some examples why... eg Dry Nos is Safer / better then Wet because.... etc etc etc

If your only after <100hp extra from the nitrous then I'd just get a single injector wet kit. http://www.holley.com/BrowseCatalogs.asp?Catalog=NOS&Page=23. That is the kit I would be looking at as it is specifically designed for your purpose. Also read this. It may answer a few questions for those new to nitrous. http://www.holley.com/TechService/FAQ.asp?category=NOS.

[NSPYRE]

ahh nitrous... had plans for a kit on my DA that fell thru :(

anyway, i did quite a bit of research when i was looking at wat to do and i'll share my findings and hopefully be of some use to u :) as grumpy rooster and aaronng state, wet system is the way to go. im sure u kno by now how both systems work (dry system uses single solenoid which sprays nitrous into the intake and leaves it to the PGM-FI to compensate for the nitrous. wet system uses two solenoids; fuel and nitrous. extra fuel solenoid is used to compensate). as wet systems adds fuel with the nitrous, the A/F ratio will always be fairly stoichiometric (or atleast not too lean). disadvantage of wet system is that fuel can puddle in the manifold and POSSIBLY cause backfire.

now, for the other little things, regardless of what kind of climate ur living in, a bottle blanket/heater is a good idea - low ambient temperature will result in low bottle pressure. always rest the bottle at 45 degrees and turn it off when not in use (the actual bottle, not just the activation switch; there are switches u can buy which open or close the bottle from the comfort of ur cabin). purge kit is not essential and mainly for wank factor, however they do serve a purpose. purging gets rid of any old nitrous that remains in the line after your previous hit, thus u hav a nice clean line for ur next hit. if u dont purge, u simply get a bit of a splutter and jerk a bit next time u hit which only lasts until the old gas is gone (a couple of seconds).

a window switch is a good idea. on my research and people telling me from experience, u should only activate AFTER 2,500 RPM (ideally 3,000) and in 2nd gear, not a good idea in first. however, this also depends on what kind of load ur on. on high loads, its a good idea not to activate it at all. also, change ur sparkies to colder one's.

a few pointers:
1. generally, 20 shot per cylinder is the rule (4 cyl = 80 shot at most)
2. have nitrous activate ONLY at WOT (duh)
3. have it delivered through a throttle sensor and not a push button like in F&F
4. nitrous isnt cheap. ur looking at around $100 +/- $20 to fill the bottle
5. as ur running a turbo setup, i assume u've altered how ur rev limiter works (cant think of the correct term right now for some reason...) so u have ignition cut-off rather than ur fuel supply cut-off - this is extremely important and i cannot stress it enough

as for kits, i made up my mind on the wet ZEX 82021 kit.

as stated before, nitrous does not prove to be a problem so long as u spend time in tuning it correctly and not cutting corners. good luck :)

[hinezz]

well its not a very unique thing... many many boosted cars out there seem to be useing nitrous... just dont see why there has been a discussion here on ozhonda about it :(

yea its not unique coz its a quick fix.
Rather build a tuff motor then to have a bottle attached nxt to it. :thumbsup:

[grumpy rooster]

yea its not unique coz its a quick fix.
Rather build a tuff motor then to have a bottle attached nxt to it. :thumbsup:

Go and speak to some top level turbo Sport Compact guys and tell them that and see what they say.

Its this sort of ignorance that fuels the fallacies about nitrous.:rolleyes:

[hinezz]

Go and speak to some top level turbo Sport Compact guys and tell them that and see what they say.

Its this sort of ignorance that fuels the fallacies about nitrous.:rolleyes:
Its not ignorance, its my opinion on the matter :thumbsup:
And the matter is here Lyles setup which is not A top level turbo Sport Compact class.
Its a nice sweet street car with show and go ;)

[beeza]

I'm sure you would know but http://d-series.org/ has an absolute ton of information on this stuff.

[Sexc86]

here are some thoughts from the boys on turbod16

http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39196

something else interesting - http://www.hondata.com/cars/rsx_landspeed/rsx_landspeed_titlepg.html

At this point i dont think nitrous is a cheating way of getting power? some people could also say that about turbochargeing ? just thinking of nitrous *Could be* a good extra in building a strong setup... for off road use of course :P

[ILZ]

I will be trying a single wet fogger nos set up early next year, will only be using nos to help turbo spool to full boost on gear changes as im currantly upgrading the turbo from the previous t60-1 turbo we used when we ran the 9.93@147mph pass.
with this will come the intercooling effect you get from nos when it is injected, making more h/p just by cooling the incoming compressed air!
with the new turbo should run 150mph and 155+mph with the nos, see what happens it could all end in a huge mess! hehehehe:p