All motor? you kind of thing?

[Jnr Teggy]

hey guys!

anyone out there who gets a kick out of going fast....without any assistance?


i doub't theres anything more exhilerating than blasting past some boosted barge and seeing the look on their faces!

[mo]

sorry but i don't get it? :?

[INFLYT]

It seem's to sort of have a sleeper advantage.

[XXpl0Sive]

i think having a NA car and then turbocharging it is the ultimate sleeper :lol:

[Jnr Teggy]

hehe....no shiny FMIC or BOV..


sleeper power!


still satifying owning cars with allmotor!

[Dxs]

personally i am a "all motor" type.
I think turbos are for chumps.

It is a cope out and generally used due to lack of engineering talent.
(nissan). Big litre cars also suck imo (holden, GM, Ford) for the same reason.

Like i am a big fan of M3's (NA inline 6's.. all engineering!).

personally i would prefer a spoon modded NA type r over a turbo worked type r no matter how much faster the turboed v. would go.

like who really needs more than 100kw @ the wheels for fun, it is all wank value in the end.

[LUD02C]

I must admit i do love the sound of a turbo car just winding up!
When they are next to you and they are about to go, i love that sound...

Well i got No V-Tec and no turbo and no supercharger, but i'm still happy :D

[wynode]

I'm with prod19y (i'm gonna call you ben its easier!)

I'd rather buy an N/A car and turbo that with a sneaky FMIC behind the front bar.

Just like to surprise people when they see a car thats not orgiginally turboed.

High revving honda's are nice, but a nice torqy honda with a turbo is even better!

[Calvo]

yeh i like sleepers :D thats wats gonna happen to my car. only looks mods ill have really is wheels and eventually kit.
but yeh, im not goin the forced induction road for atleast another year due to:
a) im still inexperienced (only had P's since december 02)
b) the money factor :D
c) insurance
d) i dont quite wanna die yet. i had a really close friend who had a pretty bad accident last year, ended up in a coma for 2mnths. now he's all good, but seein him in a coma was quite distressing, and seeing his parents watching him was also quite a wake up call to pretty much my whole grade at skool.

[one more chance]

yep...im a allmotor fanatic myself...
after owning a FI car and a AM car, i have to say, AM is the way to go as its more awarding.....cost shitloads more $$$$ though!

[VTi-RT]

Based on sound and pulling power of a turbo compared to a N/A, turbo all the way.

N/A cars are good, but for big power and torque, you need to increase cc's and rpm. Highly strung N/A are also very temperamental.

[Civic Si]

IMO, if it is a Honda or any other N/A car it should stay N/A! :)

[vti-2]

This is a popular debate on almost every single Honda forum...

I've always loved N/A Honda's, a fully built N/A VTEC sounds awesome and goes just as good. The only problem is how expensive it is to do. A proper I/H/E setup can cost thousands of dollars and you are just beginning. You then have cams, throttle body, ECU mods etc...

With turbo, you have the added bonus of boost as well as VTEC. I've been in a fair few N/A Honda's and while they sounded great they can't touch a boosted VTEC. Having been in a few boosted Honda's i can say i've truly converted to the darkside. There is no doubt my next ride will be boosted.

And there's nothing more satisfying than beating just about every car on the road, whether it is a boosted R33 or a V8 commondore.

[Calvo]

yeh and also the satisfaction of looking at the other drivers face while u hand him his ass on a nice honda platter :D

[VTi-RT]

And besides boosted Honda's are still very rare here in Aus ;)

[vti-2]

For now huh? :lol:

[poid]

Yeh for now :)

[Hadean]

Some people are interested in more than just a straight-line wonder. Having a turbocharged car can be a hindrance on the race-track. Non-linear power delivery and turbo lag. That's not to say turbocharged cars aren't good on the race track, just that to engineer one that is good is very difficult.

Everyone has their preferences, go with whatever you like.

[ALLMTR]

Yeah all motor is OK, I suppose

[Hadean]

LOL... i 'suppose'??? its funny coming from you dude... welcome to the forums :)

[Setanta]

Yeah all motor is OK, I suppose

LOL Chuck ;) Hmmm... do comments like that mean you are moving to the dark side? :p

[ALLMTR]

NEVAAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[crx_16x]

Man i saw your car run at eastern creek one night.....
If you ever do convert to the dark side....
Can i have your engine??? :lol:

[Setanta]

Man i saw your car run at eastern creek one night.....
If you ever do convert to the dark side....
Can i have your engine??? :lol:

LOL - he has it up for sale on www.performanceforums.com

Wish I had the money handy ;)

[ALLMTR]

Nah not for sale any more. Maybe for sale in the new year when the K20a is finished.....

[crx_16x]

Cool,
does anybody want to buy one of my kidneys in the mean time?
K20a in 1985 civic!!!
geez thats gonna be quick.

[Setanta]

Nah not for sale any more. Maybe for sale in the new year when the K20a is finished.....

Cool!!!!

Hmmm... let me know when you decide to sell - my B16A is still going strong, but I'm thinking either "more power" in the SiR or perhaps picking up an Aussie 4th gen shell with blown motor and going all out on it ;) That or a CRX, but rex's aren't that cheap :cry:

[Jnr Teggy]

i am very interested in chucks package too

[ALLMTR]

i am very interested in chucks package too

That could be taken the wrong way Muhahahha

Oh and by the time I sell it, it will be one STRONG package

[94vtirozguy]

NA is the way way to go... not too many decent NA cars around, everyone seems to be putting on turbos, and they are becoming as common as dogs balls.

Also with cops clmaping down on people modding cars, NA enhancements are easier to hide thus being true sleepers.

[Jnr Teggy]

the only thing hard to hide is the noise!

[vti-2]

Yeah, N/A's are loud!

[ALLMTR]

Mines deafening inside the car but remarkably quiet outside.......unless your at full throttle :D

[Setanta]

Mines deafening inside the car but remarkably quiet outside.......unless your at full throttle :D

LOL - I thought it was your fuel pump that was deafening :P

[Spunkymonkey]

I think both NA and turbo cars can be noisy. Having sat in one of Oz's quickest rx7's and hearing that thing, I'm sure I wouldn't complain about the noise in any other car lol.

Mine can get noisy in high rev ranges when I'm fanging it around. It also depends on ambient noise as well.

Oh, and I don't prefer one over the other. I don't mind either. While a front mount intercooler would look very damn nice under my front bar...I'm not fussed whether it is or isn't turbo.

Although I'm quite happy with it atm :)

[dc2r]

I consider turbo as cheating... just like taking steroids...
it's a performance enhancer. Without it, the car will be slow.
Just like if you build your body up and you're all muscular, if you take steroids you'll be even stronger!
It's cheating I tell ya!

[Jnr Teggy]

i think there's a lot more respect with having a fast n/a car!~


"12.8...nice...how much boost?"..."none"..."OH SHIT..you're joking!"

[Setanta]

I don't see a turbo as cheating. It's just a different means to an end - same for upping cubes (eg V8 ;) ).

Cheers

[INFLYT]

Kinda like that Lancer, 2FST2C, in the latest Fast Fours magazine. It cracked a 14.4 in N/A trim. Pretty healthy!

[ALLMTR]

Yeah 14.4 even on slicks is still pretty good!!!

[Civic Type R]

1985 Civic + B20vtec = 12.8 @ 107mph
Now that what im talkin about !
I had a 85 civichatch - grand prix model with an old ZC :(
I traded it in for some DOHC VTEC power.

I know of these but with T3/4 turbos slapped on them and using VTEC killer cams. Thats some serious shit.
However im a NA power fan myself and would personally like to see the results from the K24A new CRV block mated to the K20A head being worked on in the states.

[buzz_civic]

I think 'go', then 'show'

[bennjamin]

crap a blast from the past.

[raff]

i think you get more credit from a quick NA car compared to a wokred turbo which comes stock with a turbo i.e nissan s13 r33 etc

NA all the way

[G AE82]

I totally agree. NA is the way to go. It's a shame that there are so few fast na cars going around. Namely FWD hondas

[ginganggooly]

i love PROPER turbo honda setups... the thing is- it is actually more expensive to do than a good NA setup.

i mean, anyone can slap a turbo onto any motor and call it a day, but how elegent is that?

if you want a REAL turbo setup, kiss goodbye to the better part of 20k. all the mods you need for an NA slapper are needed on a turbo too. on top of that, add sleeves, injectors, turbo, stronger bits and pieces everywhere.

turbo build ups are not cheaper, unless you are doing a semi-baked turbo conversion anyway. i'd love to see one of the famous 5k turbo "conversions" last a full session at the track at full tilt on a hot day...

i'm sure someone will have a go at proving me wrong, but there's my two schillings :)

[BLKCRX]

eheheheh ;) my Turbo CRX loves the track ;) but its built for the track ;) heeheh but yeah sir Ginganggooly speaks the truth ;)

[nEUROtic]

2 words - Turbo Lag

Dunno how many of you here are top gear fans but, they do a review of the UK spec Evo.

0-100 = 3.2 seconds = FASTER THAN A FERRARI ENZO

WoW!!!!

Problem is, unless ur in exactly the right gear at the right revs, its useless. They have the evo and a 1.6L fiat steelo estate neck a neck, both in fifth cruising. They both then stomp on it. In 1.7 miles, the evo couldn't catch the fiat. Also, it does 6.4km/L (about 15L / 100km) and has to be serviced every 7000km.

**** that. Too expensive. Too unreliable. Too much fuel. Power only when it says you can have power.

NA all the way :)

[wynode]

Problem is, unless ur in exactly the right gear at the right revs, its useless. They have the evo and a 1.6L fiat steelo estate neck a neck, both in fifth cruising. They both then stomp on it. In 1.7 miles, the evo couldn't catch the fiat. Also, it does 6.4km/L (about 15L / 100km) and has to be serviced every 7000km.


That's a ****ing load of crap that comparison (excuse the language). The same theory (put it in a high gear and step on the gass) also applies to Honda DOHC VTEC engines because you need to be in the right gear to be in the power band and on most Honda engines, that peak power band is only 2,000 or so RPM

[Captiva_Blue]

NA is the way to go IMO.

Turbo is great if you're into the whole quarter mile thing and thats it. In the real world, worked NA cars tend to be faster than an aftermarket turbo setup point to point. Think about what most people do, fit the biggest turbo possible on a custom header, front mount, BOV, upgraded injectors and chipped ecu. Thats it. This gives you massive boost and a big shove in the back but only after massive turbo lag esp on a small capacity engine.

When threading your car through a nice stretch of road, an NA car can be an absolute orgasm on wheels. With a turbo car (especially a big turbo that spools up fast) it can be downright scary. Try coming on boost mid corner and see how easy a car is to handle.. I tell ya, your pants will be several shades browner after that. Also for overtaking, catch a turbo car cruising along in 5th or whaterver and its like a sitting duck, not no with an NA car, it'll pull from almost anywhere..

[wynode]

I'm not a downright NA person nor am I a FI person but I like to see the good and bad of both sides!



With a turbo car (especially a big turbo that spools up fast) it can be downright scary. Try coming on boost mid corner and see how easy a car is to handle.. I tell ya, your pants will be several shades browner after that.


That's why there is something called 'tuning'. And let's face it, big turbo's are generally used on drag cars not set up for winding roads!



Also for overtaking, catch a turbo car cruising along in 5th or whaterver and its like a sitting duck, not no with an NA car, it'll pull from almost anywhere..

Same goes for a VTEC Honda cruising in 5th. You would have to drop it into 4th or even 3rd to get into the power band.

[sivic]

agreed. i dont know of many honda engines which dont require a shift down to get up and going from cruising speed.
i think ppl are getting confused about the notion of NA response.
frankly i wouldnt call a turbo cruising in 5th at say ~ 110km/h a sitting duck. the higher the gear you're in the more you are going to find torque having an effect on acceleration, and torque is something turbos have going for them:thumbsup:

i'll say i'm an NA man but i'm not going to stick my nose up at boost.

[panda[cRx]]

Problem is, unless ur in exactly the right gear at the right revs, its useless.

too much top gear y0!:rolleyes:

as wyn stated thats a "****ing load of crap that comparison"

i have seen that episode, the model they used had an 'upgraded' bigger turbo which obviously means more lag in those situations. if you put a stock evo there it woult have passed the fiat rather easily.

anyway what kinda test is that? the shifter is there for a reason.

[wynode]

']

anyway what kinda test is that? the shifter is there for a reason.

Exactly. ANd if it was an auto, the auto would have kicked down and BYE BYE FIAT.

SOrry for tearing your example apart LOL

[wlee2]

whaa so many people say turbo lag.. umm ok heres a question i pose to you

integra VTir stock integra Vtir stock engine with turbo.. now seriosly what is the difference.. well both cars still run exactly the same untill one of them gets a boost kick.... so if turbos lag.. then NA is fulltime lag.. i like both turbo and NA.. but just NA more expensive ^_^..

and like wyn and a few others na or turbo.. you goto shift into your powerband if you want to acelerate really fasst.. but if you got a fast spooling turbo. well even 5th gear will do.. ive seen that before =P

[sivic]

umm... that not exactly correct. the lag is caused by the turbo itself being a restictor to flow before it reaches positive boost. it results in a pressure drop between the turbo and intake. therefore you cant really say NA has lag full time, or at all.
two of the same engines, one NA one boosted - the boosted engine is going to have slower accelaration before it hits boost. in well tuned applications with a well chosen setup this is not going to be very noticable. its really an issue when the turbos get bigger or when someone has chosen the wrong turbo for their engine

[wlee2]

but if the 2 cars have nothing done to the engine.. theres little difference just that when boost kicks in bye bye na car.. i love both NA and Boost both of them have their ups and down. . then there is always a supercharger. you cant exactly argue theres lag there can you? what is a supercharger .. ding ding its a type of of turbo charger =P.. that will eliminate your turbo lag right there =P best of both worlds.. ok stop arguing =P...

just to get things straight.. theres nothing wrong with boost..

theres nothing wrong with NA..

to each their own i say =P.. but in the world of the WRX and Evo.. and The SUPA HKDM 2door coupe EVO LAncers.. well you need a machine that can bite back hehe ^_^..

one wise (and stupid ^_^ bwhahaha..) man once said its not the size of the dog in the fight.. its the size of the fight in the dog =P..

[WPN.22R]

well i guess ill have experience on both sides of the fence! love having boost and ill be running around in my spare NA h22a with some fun bits in it. ill be getting it hopefully this weekend (while my turbo block is in the U.S) i will then be able to give a non biased comment on this topic. comparing cost to performance NA vs TURBO

will keep you guys posted!!

[wynode]

but if the 2 cars have nothing done to the engine.. theres little difference just that when boost kicks in bye bye na car..


It's not that simple. You might want to read up a bit on how a turbo works. Restrictions in the exhaust because of the turbo DO affect throttle response.



. then there is always a supercharger. you cant exactly argue theres lag there can you? what is a supercharger .. ding ding its a type of of turbo charger =P.. that will eliminate your turbo lag right there =P best of both worlds.. ok stop arguing =P...


Once again its not that simple. A supercharger is known NOT to have lag because it doesn't cause a restriction in the exhaust.

Might want to go and read a bit more before making wild claims dood.

[steve]

Also the drive system of a supercharger is very ineffecient, power loss of 30% of possible power production is not uncommon, ie lots of load on engine for wot is a pretty crude way to develop power...