lightened fly wheel? YES/NO? [Archive]

aznsiko

10-10-2007, 06:08 PM

hey guys.. i just wana hear your thoughts about lightened fly wheel for your cars or guys who have one..

im doing my clutch this weekend.. and was wondering if its worth the $700 (guesstimate) extra?

some people have told me that its just a waste of money and standard it good enough.. including a more comfort and drivablity compared to aftermarket lightened ones...

some have told me it performs better with a lost of bottom end power..

so what do you guys experience?

IRI

10-10-2007, 07:28 PM

every modification is a waste of money

aaronng

10-10-2007, 07:35 PM

Those who tell you that you lose bottom end power get their opinions from the gran turismo video game.

11-10-2007, 04:01 PM

.::F[L]Y::.

11-10-2007, 04:57 PM

id rather put 700 bucks toward a final gear mod than upgrade the flywheel. Unless you have to do a clutch change then might as well. but some aftermarket clutch kits come with lightened flywheels dont they??

aaronng

11-10-2007, 05:02 PM

If you have to $$ to do final drive, lightweight fly and a HD clutch, the effect will be more than doing intake, $700 headers and exhaust. :)

.::F[L]Y::.

11-10-2007, 05:09 PM

clutch change or pulling out the flywheel would be more expensive than a final drive upgrade?

grumpy rooster

11-10-2007, 05:16 PM

If you have to $$ to do final drive, lightweight fly and a HD clutch, the effect will be more than doing intake, $700 headers and exhaust. :)

I am glad there are some on this forum who understand that power isn't everything. :thumbsup: The secret to a quick car is using the power you have to its best advantage.

TODA AU

11-10-2007, 05:18 PM

I am glad there are some on this forum who understand that power isn't everything. :thumbsup: The secret to a quick car is using the power you have to its best advantage.

Ditto... :thumbsup::thumbsup:

aaronng

11-10-2007, 06:53 PM

Y::.;1382898']clutch change or pulling out the flywheel would be more expensive than a final drive upgrade?

Nope, but to get to the final drive, you need to remove the gearbox to open it up. So it's more cost-effective to do the flywheel, clutch, input shaft bearing and throwout bearing at the same time.

jko2

11-10-2007, 09:31 PM

I had a 4.8kg exedy flywheel in my car once.. made little difference.

i moved to a fidanza 3.3kg flywheel (really really light).. made alittle more difference.

stock is 6.1 kg, pretty light already.

light flywheel makes very little difference in our F20C motors due to our heavyish RWD drive train. on, say a b18C, makes a night and day difference however.

it does make the motor more responsive when blipping the throttle for rev matching.
you'll need a lot more sensntivity in your right foot on the track, maintaining weight balance in the car around corners is also more challenging - but yet more rewarding.

Malenic1981

11-10-2007, 09:51 PM

I just ordered toda clutch kit that has lighten flywheel (3.8kg is what I got told) so I'll do a review in few weeks time when it's installed, my clutch was still ok but I had that clutch buzz noise that was just becoming annoying more and more so I decided to fix it. Would love to get M-Factory final drive but there is no kit for F20C yet, but anyway I don't have money to get it now so maybe by the time I save up they gonna make one.

jko2

11-10-2007, 10:03 PM

Nope, but to get to the final drive, you need to remove the gearbox to open it up. So it's more cost-effective to do the flywheel, clutch, input shaft bearing and throwout bearing at the same time.

What are you talking about aaronng?

When I changed to a 4.44 FD I changed the crown wheel and pinion in the DIFFERENTIAL at the back of the car, between the two REAR wheels.

Just make sure your mechanic sets the preload and backlash correctly as you'll maek short work of your new crown wheel and pinion if you don't.

He will more than likely need to take it to a diff specialist. it is very very important.

jko2

11-10-2007, 10:10 PM

Anyway, take it from me as i've gone through all this before.

stock flywheel clutch
exedy hyper single kit (4.8kg flywheel, 6 puck clutch)
fidanza flywheel (3.3kg aluminium flywheel, organic clutch disc, stock pressure plate)
stock diff
kaaz 1.5 way diff
4.44 crown wheel and pinion

Through that, you only bother to do a light flywheel when you need to change your clutch.
And if you're only into driving in a straight line, then don't bother with a flywheel. If you're into serious driving, then a flywheel will help, also make it more difficult. The car is already quite hard to manage stock, without having to regulate your rpm with a light flywheel (rise a fall really quick - when you release the gas, the RPMs WILL drop fast, and the car WILL get unsettled).

If you want to mod your car to be a better daily driver, more zip, and actually feel a difference in day-to-day driving, then get a 4.44, 4.56, or 4.77 final drive.

Fuel consumption with higher final drives? it doesn't seem to have too much of an effect, pedal position is really what is going to determine your fuel consumption. I recommend a 4.44 FD to take out the lack lustre bottom end in our cars.

jko2

11-10-2007, 10:19 PM

u dont lose, u dont get power...what clutch/fly combo are u buying?
write a review...or comment...i'm in the market for new clutch as well...
but dont want the noise...

u might pick up more noise however...buzzing harmonics vibration noise...

i just find out after owning one, s2k is very prone to this gear backlash noise...

Not quite right here, you gain power with a light flywheel, it is very minimal, and probably won't feel it, but it is still there.

A light flywheel will allow more power to be transferred to the wheels/ground as it needs less power to rotate its own weight.

power upgrades in s2ks are a joke, an aftermarket engine management is ideal for the early model s2ks 99-01 as they run quite rich factory. 02+ typically dyno 5-10kw higher due to a leaner more agressive mapping.
Short of doing forced induction, there isn't much more we can do.

oh wait, light wheels make a big difference. Our stock 16" are pretty heavy even though considered light for OEM. With tyres, they weigh about 18kg.

If you buy larger wheels, make sure you get the right profile. A even slight higher rolling diameter will effectively be meaning your driving with a lower (numerically) final drive.

I made a mistake of putting 235/45/17 on my lightweight 17" wheels - shit branded tyre too BF Goodrich - which actually ahve a bigger rolling diametre than other branded 235/45/17.

DC5TYPER

11-10-2007, 10:45 PM

Not quite right here, you gain power with a light flywheel, it is very minimal, and probably won't feel it, but it is still there.

A light flywheel will allow more power to be transferred to the wheels/ground as it needs less power to rotate its own weight.

power upgrades in s2ks are a joke, an aftermarket engine management is ideal for the early model s2ks 99-01 as they run quite rich factory. 02+ typically dyno 5-10kw higher due to a leaner more agressive mapping.
Short of doing forced induction, there isn't much more we can do.

oh wait, light wheels make a big difference. Our stock 16" are pretty heavy even though considered light for OEM. With tyres, they weigh about 18kg.

If you buy larger wheels, make sure you get the right profile. A even slight higher rolling diameter will effectively be meaning your driving with a lower (numerically) final drive.

I made a mistake of putting 235/45/17 on my lightweight 17" wheels - shit branded tyre too BF Goodrich - which actually ahve a bigger rolling diametre than other branded 235/45/17.

This is great info posted by a user who has already gone through these mods. Take advice people.

Thanks Champ :thumbsup:

aznsiko

12-10-2007, 10:29 AM

hey guys thanks for all the info.. its great help.. im still tossing between the 2.. lol.. after all that.. but leaning towards stock wheel now.. thanks heaps.. especially JKO2.. thanks alot for that info.. really got my mind around it..

aaronng

12-10-2007, 10:36 AM

What are you talking about aaronng?

When I changed to a 4.44 FD I changed the crown wheel and pinion in the DIFFERENTIAL at the back of the car, between the two REAR wheels.

Just make sure your mechanic sets the preload and backlash correctly as you'll maek short work of your new crown wheel and pinion if you don't.

He will more than likely need to take it to a diff specialist. it is very very important.

Oops, I forgot this was the S2k section. My bad :thumbsup:

MRSPCS

12-10-2007, 05:56 PM

hey guys, rather then opening another thread, might aswell ask here...
can anyone tell me whether the flywheel is a dual mass, or solid (i think thats what it's called)??

Chr1s

12-10-2007, 09:21 PM

I'd say OEM s2k flywheel is a one piece flywheel.

Some aftermarket flywheels run 2 piece with removable friction plates that save taking the flywheel off for machining later down the track for example.

jko2

12-10-2007, 09:37 PM

1 piece.

fndaza flywheels are two, with a replacable face - no biggy though.

i've actually got an exedy hyper single clutch kit (complete 4.8kg flywheel, 6 puck clutch, 1tonne pressure plate, bearing) - with two discs (one worn, one good - have photos of when new) if anyone is keen.

Very aggressive minimal slip clutch. really only suitable for people who are used to hard clutches.

aaronng

12-10-2007, 10:33 PM

Removable friction plate does not equal dual mass though.

fatboyz39

13-10-2007, 12:14 AM

stock s2k flywheel 6.1kg? thats damn light!.... I wouldn't bother changing it.

Go for 4.4 FD or 4.7FD, help it get into vtec faster. As for fuel consumption, should be able to squeeze more km out of a tank.

WhiteAP1

13-10-2007, 02:49 PM

The TODA clutch has more springs in it, im actually getting more clutch buzz than before. The 3.8kg flywheel was an improvment in my opinion, it revs alot easier and was noticable. In regards to the revs dropping too fast, its never been an issue. As ive said before you cant go past changing the Final drive. I wouldnt recommend anything lower than 4.77. If ure hardcore give the J's racing 5.1 a shot :) The clutch kit + install should be around $1250 or so. A FD change will set u back a little over $2k. The final drive is worth every cent.

Malenic1981

14-10-2007, 01:23 AM

Shit are you saying that I'll still have clutch buzz after I change it???, the main reson for change was to get rid of that buzz

WhiteAP1

14-10-2007, 07:51 PM

LOL it turns the buzz into a drone. U'll be fine, its not that bad. Mind u ive got the full face clutch, if uve got the kit that comes with a four plate disc (or similar) so u mind find a different result.

Malenic1981

14-10-2007, 08:02 PM

The one I'm gonna have is single plate organic, so you think it should be ok??

WhiteAP1

14-10-2007, 09:11 PM

Thats the one i got. U'll get use to it

Malenic1981

15-10-2007, 12:56 AM

As long as it's less annoying then original buzz I'll be happy hehe, also how much do final drives go for and is installation big job or not??

CRXONE

15-10-2007, 10:44 AM

I've heard many S2K owners who have lightened there flywheel havent even noticed a difference.

Save your pennies and Supercharge my friends

MRSPCS

15-10-2007, 04:21 PM

Malenic1981

15-10-2007, 07:27 PM

Supercharge sounds good, but how much do we have to save and how reliable would S2K be after??

WhiteAP1

15-10-2007, 09:24 PM

As long as it's less annoying then original buzz I'll be happy hehe, also how much do final drives go for and is installation big job or not??

The crown and pinion, depending on the ratio, should go for about $900. Instillation is a big job, u cant just take it to any mechanic. If u find someone who knows what their doing (diff and tranny expert) it should take them a day. After buying all the parts from honda and installation its a little over $2K

If u wanna get a supercharger so your mates can say WOW..........once, go ahead. Have u looked into what else u need to buy to get the most out of it. After shipping from the states, ECU and fuel accessories, instillation,tunning and labour your anywhere between the $10K - $12 mark.

Malenic1981

15-10-2007, 09:55 PM

No man no supercharger for my S2K hehe, was just wondering how much would it be, even $2K for final drive is a bit too much for me at the moment, I was thinking it was around $1K installed hehe, well anyway will have to wait for that a bit longer, thanks for info man, very helpfull

tegstar83

15-10-2007, 11:40 PM

WhiteAP1

15-10-2007, 11:57 PM

I hear ya about linear power, but a supercharger can reach its max potential pretty quickly. With a turbo the powers practically on tap, u simply have to decide how far ure gonna turn it. With the right setup and size turbo u can have some pretty impressive power starting from 3k rpm.

roar

19-06-2008, 01:44 PM

s2k flywheel is single not dual mass

a flywheel's weight smoothes out the power pulses of a piston engine...

higher torque examples such as heaps of modern diesel engines (and even mk4 supras) utilise a dual mass flywheel which is effectively two flywheels connected with a system of springs...this allows some degree of free movement of the clutch compared to the crankshaft

this has the effect of extra smoothing of the power pulses from the engine, and thus extra cushioning for the transmission...ie less wear on transmission, but more muted feel

dmf's are no where near as reliable compared to a solid single flywheel for obvious reasons

AusS2000

20-06-2008, 11:01 AM

If u wanna get a supercharger so your mates can say WOW..........once, go ahead. Have u looked into what else u need to buy to get the most out of it. After shipping from the states, ECU and fuel accessories, instillation,tunning and labour your anywhere between the $10K - $12 mark.

LOL, I think you might be suffering from a bit of FI envy. ;)

FI is one of the few mods for an S2000 that actually gives something more than bragging rights.

And you don't need an 'ECU and fuel accessories' or even tuning to get good results (10 times that of any NA mod). The Comptech and Vortech kits are install and drive away. And there is one going secondhand in NZ at present for $3500.

AusS2000

20-06-2008, 11:06 AM

I think a Super charger is an exellent upgrade for an S2k and much much better than a stinking turbo you basically have a larger displacement engine with NA characteristics and producing linear power $12k seems quirte steep though.

You're thinking positive displacement SC. There is only one PD SC for the S and it doesn't fit RHD (and I'm not sure they are even producing it). All the others are centrifugal so you can forget 'linear power'.

A properly set up turbo can be controlled to give much more torque in the lower rev range than a centrifugal SC and power can be as linear as you like. That however, will cost you $10-12k.