View Full Version : DC2R Brakes - Now with review
Zilli
15-10-2007, 11:47 AM
Guys i wanted opinions on pricing for brakes
Just got in touch with race brakes with the following prices
Endless Type R - 595
CCX - 625
DS2500 - 490
DBA 4000 front only - 265 p/side
Motul brake fluid - $29
He recommended the endless range, what do you guys think? are the prices ok? i want to start tracking more but its predominantly a street car
bennjamin
15-10-2007, 12:00 PM
IMO if its just a street car with tracking in mind just upgrade your pads only.
OEM fluids , discs are fine as long as in good / new condition.
BlitZ
15-10-2007, 12:56 PM
DS2500 - 490 ? are these for ferodo pads?
Zilli
15-10-2007, 12:58 PM
Ben, the front discs are warped thats why i'm replacing them...
Any opinions on the pads to choose? Yeh the DS2500's are the Ferodo pads
bennjamin
15-10-2007, 01:06 PM
thats reason enough then lol.
Get the DBA 4000 in solid. Slotted makes little difference and only bling factor
Zilli
15-10-2007, 01:13 PM
ive budgeted for bling :-P
Anyone know part number for the rear ferodo pads?
just FYI too, competition fiction is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than Race Brakes.
Zilli
15-10-2007, 09:00 PM
are the rear pads on an ITR the same as a normal dc2? or like another pad on a Honda?
Malenic1981
15-10-2007, 10:34 PM
I think DBA is pretty good, personaly I think they are more respected as a brand overseas than here in OZ
EKVTIR-T
15-10-2007, 10:42 PM
Few dba users complained about rotor life with aggressive pads.
aaronng
15-10-2007, 10:51 PM
The rotor material have to be matched to pad material. The CCX is aggressive because they are ceramic carbon. The NA-R are non-asbestos and should be fine with the DBA4000. The Ferodo DS2500 are good being adhesion pads, but are very noisy when cold.
civic_mods
15-10-2007, 11:53 PM
my fren ordered brembo ccx f&r from perfectrun.com.au jus a bit over 500 including shipping if i didn't remember wrongly so i guess u can shop ard a bit more for price
find another source apart from racebrakes.. it'll save you some $
newbie
16-10-2007, 12:52 AM
why not just replace your ones with anothe set of stock. then get 'upgrade' on pads?
i got 2nd dc2r rotors forsale $50 for the pair, another forumer still for under $100.. and then you can get goos pads for $$$ + maybe braided lines or something?
Ben, the front discs are warped thats why i'm replacing them...
Any opinions on the pads to choose? Yeh the DS2500's are the Ferodo pads
i thought you could still fix warped disc by flattening them or machining. or you cant?
aaronng
16-10-2007, 01:48 AM
There is a limit to how much you can machine off.
AKmotorworks
16-10-2007, 02:35 AM
Personally, Id machine your rotors and reft your pads if they have alot of meat left.
If its a street car that is, and your only running street tyres on the track.
Zilli
16-10-2007, 07:54 AM
Zico i know bro... competition friction was under 200 for the DBA, and about 100 less at least for the pads...
Thanks for all the opinions, i personally want to change the discs and pads as im planning on tracking more rather than getting a motorbike.
Does anyone know if the rear pads on my car are the same as the regular dc2? or if they are the same as another honda pad?
Zilli
16-10-2007, 08:00 AM
The rotor material have to be matched to pad material. The CCX is aggressive because they are ceramic carbon. The NA-R are non-asbestos and should be fine with the DBA4000. The Ferodo DS2500 are good being adhesion pads, but are very noisy when cold.
Are the NA R noisy too?
I would imagine a couple of applications with the ferodo will wamr them up enough to stop the noise though yes?
bennjamin
16-10-2007, 10:11 AM
Does anyone know if the rear pads on my car are the same as the regular dc2? or if they are the same as another honda pad?
NO they are not the same as the DC2 pads. They are significantly larger surface area ( and its a larger rear disc too)
The rear DC2R pads , are same/similar to 90-03 accord , s2k and 94-02 prelude.
Can someone confirm ?
In my opinion, all the CC-X and whatever hi temp race pads are unnecessary and a waste of money for under 150kw or daily driver cars with the occasional track days.
I'm just using Endless SSS, and they've lasted me a whole year of Supersprints and Track days and there's still more than 1/2 Left.
Ran 10 continuous...hard laps at Wakefield and no fade at all...
Just my opinion.
I'm also using rotors made in Taiwan - Exzess
http://www.exzess.com.tw/a-home.htm
bennjamin
16-10-2007, 10:24 AM
Good points - no point driving 5 laps to get your brake pads to "grip" then the next lap your tyres re overheating.
Zilli
16-10-2007, 11:18 AM
surely it doesn't take 5 laps to get these pads to heat up? Are you exaggerating ben?
aaronng
16-10-2007, 12:22 PM
Are the NA R noisy too?
I would imagine a couple of applications with the ferodo will wamr them up enough to stop the noise though yes?
Check the DBA forums, the STI guys use DS2500 and love it. Supposedly after a while the noise goes away, but I'm not 100% sure. http://forums.mrtperformance.com.au/showthread.php?t=1
bennjamin
16-10-2007, 01:56 PM
surely it doesn't take 5 laps to get these pads to heat up? Are you exaggerating ben?
i am exaggerating. It could take quite abit longer than lower rated pads but.
Its an tradeoff ~ for higher grip pads you need them to be working in their heat range , hence they need a few laps to heat up. But you dont need this for a street car with occasional tracking in mind.
aaronng
16-10-2007, 03:02 PM
Yup, the higher grip pads will just cause your front wheels to lock when you use 100% braking.
Zilli
16-10-2007, 03:23 PM
even with ABS?
aaronng
16-10-2007, 03:27 PM
When you are engaging ABS on the track, that means you are not using your brakes to the fullest potential. Braking distance with ABS is longer than when you don't lock your brakes. The advantage of ABS is that it lets you steer while braking without locking up.
[Warning: Internet mechnic in the area]
> The NA-R are non-asbestos
All pads these days are non-asbestos due to a ban.
I think the rules are even more stringent, banning some heavy metals like antimony etc.
> the front discs are warped thats why i'm replacing them...
Chances are the 'warp' is an irregular layer of pad material which gets caked due to the heat
and diffuses with the carbon in the rotor steel as cementite.
A quick machining will fix it.
But if they're defintely warped then a swap is the go.
If you want to upgrade, that's another good reason to swap.
That's why we're all here isn't it?
> i want to start tracking more but its predominantly a street car
DS2500? That's a track pad.
try a step down, DS2000 with excel's on the back.
TS2000 is the same pad without the thermal layer on the back, also made in Thailand I think.
Formula Ferodo is close
DC2R pads are relatively HUGE on a light car. You won't build up enought heat on the street.
Or you should'nt be, he, he.
Bedding the pads is key. Once a thin layer of pad material is on the rotor, pad fade due to outgassing is minimized.
A quick check for correct pad bedding-in is an even layer of brown/grey (depends on pad)
on rotor surface. Definitely should not be shiny steel.
Do a search on performanceforum.com for user 'dbasteve'. Apparently Ex-DBA guy. This summarises it though. Recommends Lucas, Ultimates and the above Ferodo's for street use. DS2500 for track.
Nick.
Zilli
16-10-2007, 09:20 PM
thanks for your input Nick...
Benson
16-10-2007, 09:26 PM
Type R brakes are the best OEM brakes anyone can have. Yes for street its overkill but its looks nice. :p
To increase brake feel and performance i recommend upgrading the master cylinder and booster to the ITR one.
Zilli
18-10-2007, 11:19 AM
Guys, i need urgent help, i need the part number for the rear pads on an ITR. Im trying to get the ds2500s, but there is no listing for part numbers, ive tried the Bendix site and there is no listing.
Does anyone know anyhting here? the guy told me to get the Bendix listing... lil help?
aaronng
18-10-2007, 11:38 AM
> The NA-R are non-asbestos
All pads these days are non-asbestos due to a ban.
True, but we use the term non-asbestos to define non-ceramic and non-metallic pads.
> the front discs are warped thats why i'm replacing them...
Chances are the 'warp' is an irregular layer of pad material which gets caked due to the heat
and diffuses with the carbon in the rotor steel as cementite.
A quick machining will fix it.
Totally agree. :thumbsup: Deposits are usually caused by pads that use adhesion for friction or crappy OEM pads like those used in the Euro which has binding material that just leaves deposits when it is heated up only slightly. I went from the OEM Honda pad to a ceramic pad and that removed all the deposits off the rotor.
> i want to start tracking more but its predominantly a street car
DS2500? That's a track pad.
try a step down, DS2000 with excel's on the back.
TS2000 is the same pad without the thermal layer on the back, also made in Thailand I think.
Formula Ferodo is close
DS2500 is a good pad but because it is track-orientated, it requires a little bit of heating up, they are noisy when cold and dusty. Nothing wrong with using it on the street, but since it is an adhesion pad, it can leave deposits if the driver has habits (not necessarily bad) like holding the brake pedal down at the lights after braking from high speed (like exiting on an offramp from a freeway).
Bedding the pads is key. Once a thin layer of pad material is on the rotor, pad fade due to outgassing is minimized.
Modern brake pads don't outgas. It's the older asbestos pads that produce gas. Fade is caused by the overheating of the pad material and/or brake fluid and rubber lines, causing softening and bulging.
A quick check for correct pad bedding-in is an even layer of brown/grey (depends on pad)
on rotor surface. Definitely should not be shiny steel.
You're describing rotor bedding-in. If you had used rotors and new pads, of course the rotors would be grey in colour. :)
Do a search on performanceforum.com for user 'dbasteve'. Apparently Ex-DBA guy. This summarises it though. Recommends Lucas, Ultimates and the above Ferodo's for street use. DS2500 for track.
Lucas uses pretty aggressive abrasion pads. Even OEM Lucas pads have very good initial bite and actually require a rotor change the same time the pads require changing. I've used Ferodo XLs that were 1 step above OEM-spec and they were still lacking compared to the original OEM Lucas pads.
Here's the right forum link. He's the mod of mrtperformance now.
Original brake pad thread from 2002 (when he was still working for DBA).
http://forums.mrtperformance.com.au/showthread.php?t=1
New brake pad thread started 2007.
http://forums.mrtperformance.com.au/showthread.php?t=4446
BlitZ
18-10-2007, 11:48 AM
damn.. if the dc2r cant brake into low 1:12 (wakie) all u need is a fluid swap and some ferodos.. else the money is better spent elsewhere
aaronng
18-10-2007, 11:58 AM
The brakes are pretty good. The quickest way to lower your times is to go for used semi-slicks.
aaronng
18-10-2007, 12:34 PM
Guys, i need urgent help, i need the part number for the rear pads on an ITR. Im trying to get the ds2500s, but there is no listing for part numbers, ive tried the Bendix site and there is no listing.
Does anyone know anyhting here? the guy told me to get the Bendix listing... lil help?
From Motorspecs (Ferodo's distributor in Aus) website:
DC2R, Front: DB1265
DC2R, Rear: DB1206
Zilli
18-10-2007, 01:37 PM
mate you arw a LEGEND
BlitZ
18-10-2007, 03:33 PM
you could have just got the part number for the HRV CRV prelude or even the older NSX.. they all share the same caliper and brakes
aaronng
18-10-2007, 04:56 PM
mate you arw a LEGEND
Remember to confirm with them just in case. :)
Zilli
18-10-2007, 06:11 PM
thanks aaron
yeh when i spoke to the dude he did some more digging and found it was another number!
your still a legend though bro, its all good LOL
edw-R
18-10-2007, 09:07 PM
The rear DC2R pad is same as Accord CD3/4/5, CL9, Civic ES/EU, Integra DC2 (99-01), DC5/DC5R, Prelude BB1/4/6/8 and S2000 (AP1).
NO they are not the same as the DC2 pads. They are significantly larger surface area ( and its a larger rear disc too)
The rear DC2R pads , are same/similar to 90-03 accord , s2k and 94-02 prelude.
Can someone confirm ?
Spunkymonkey
19-10-2007, 11:27 PM
From Motorspecs (Ferodo's distributor in Aus) website:
DC2R, Front: DB1265
DC2R, Rear: DB1206
nice post aaronng...
yeah unfortunately the ferodo book, isn't very model friendly with honda listings...usually end up having to match spare brake pads with the pics rofl...
I have the dc2 vtir part numbers posted on OH as well...
good luck with the purchase Zilli
and yeah..comp friction...can be cheaper...depends...vsport aren't bad either....
Zilli
20-10-2007, 12:13 AM
vsport are the sydney distributors for competition friction... im getting my parts from vsport, as it easier, same price, same service everyhting
it turns out AArong's post wasn correct (based on what the distributor at vsport said, he did some research). I dont hav the exact part number but will find out when they arrive on Monday
Spunkymonkey
20-10-2007, 12:20 AM
vsport are the sydney distributors for competition friction... im getting my parts from vsport, as it easier, same price, same service everyhting
it turns out AArong's post wasn correct (based on what the distributor at vsport said, he did some research). I dont hav the exact part number but will find out when they arrive on Monday
well good luck...you might just need to exchange them...I had the same thing....
handy if you have a spare pad lying around to check it in the book...but anyway lol.....
goodluck mate...
Zilli
20-10-2007, 12:31 AM
hopefully it all works out OK... he did a lot of cross checking and stuff and he sounded like he knew what he was talking about so we will see
Just ordered a pair of RDA slotted rotors for our dc2r today for under $200 for the pair.
Was going to go for the EBC Red for about $150 but the Bendix ultimate was avail for around $100 so i went for that instead for the front ( DB 1206-same as vti-r, will confirm when i pull pads out of car to be 100% certain), esp the car will be seldomly tracked apart from the odd hillclimbs and autokhanas.
The rear pads ( DB 1265 ) still undecided, prob go for the Lucas for $60 if the ultimates are around the $100 mark.
Zilli
25-10-2007, 08:16 AM
let us knoww howw you go with the read pads. I just dropped my car in this morning to get everyhtting done and a MAJOR MAJOR service
bennjamin
25-10-2007, 07:19 PM
guys please dont scamp on your REAR pads even though they do about 25% of the braking. They still slow your car down and keep it in balance !
Get the same pads front n rear :)
as it turns out Bendix doesn't offer the rear pads in Ultimate material, so I opted for the Lucas.
Zilli
26-10-2007, 02:41 PM
as it turns out, the rear pads are the same as the DC5R, as EDW-R said above... Vsport are delivering them straight there now as a straight swap...
Zilli
01-11-2007, 10:44 AM
Initial thoughts on the pads... very very nice... when i got them, my mechanic had already done the primarybed in, but told me to take it easy for the first 100kms.
On the way home i was a bit concerned as the pedal was spongey and it didnt give me the instant confidence i was used too with the OEM pads.
However, as they warmed up and i got closer to home, i started to feel how responsive they were, and the actual stopping power was much improved.
I havent heard any squeal, or any noisiness at all, as far as im concerned i didnt buy my car to enjoy classical music, so its pretty noisey already. But having said that the only noise i heard was that slight shuddering noise as your coming to a complete stop when travelling slow, kinda like they were glazed, and that was late at night on my way home.
I havent given them much yet, but i can already tell that they are going to be awesome on the track, cant wait to get out there!
The discs look great, even though the OEM ones weren't warped as it turns out, so i'll just flog them later, and see how the car feels on the track with the discs, and also report on the ELF brake fluid
All in all, i think they are a great thing thus far, and also Tony from Vsport was a geat guy to deal with, he delivered the pads to my mechnic personally, and when he discovered the rears were the wrong ones, he had the right ones to my mechanic within 2 hours, personally delivered.
Good trader, great price, great products.
Stay tuned
arron
02-11-2007, 02:02 AM
hey, do you have the pad numbers for the dc2r?
I'm bound for a pad change soon too..
Zilli
02-11-2007, 12:58 PM
mate i think it was 1206 as per the bendix catalogue.
However, i do know for a fact that it is the same rear pad as a DC5, and you may find it easier to get the code for the DC5 than the DC2R
Zilli
03-11-2007, 09:26 PM
Just an update... goddamn these pads are dusty!!!
ive done 100kms now, and theres more dust on them than i had seen on my rims EVER
now that they have been on there a while though i had a chance to really give it a good hit of the brakes, and i am certainly very very impressed.
I cant help but think that the stiffer rates of the new N+ coils i got today are making the brakes more effective though, because there was much less dive. I still recommend the pads though, the dust is a small price to pay for excellent braking performance
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