Lowering my Euro, does it effect safety features?

[E_Honda]

Hey

I purchased my Euro 04 luxury with 19" wheels on it and it hasn't been lowered, what i want to know is if i do lower the springs will it effect the safety features of the car like the ABS and VSA??

Its sitting too high and i know i'd have better handling and it will look better but im worried about stuffing other things on the car.

Any info guys?

[snYpz]

Im not sure about VSA and all, but lowering too much may shorten the life of the shocks if only lowering springs are installed. Its best to change shocks and springs in one go or more commonly, just go for coilovers so u can adjust ride height etc.

Good shocks and spring combo would probably be Bilstein or Koni shocks with Eibach springs. Also, rmb to get rear camber kit otherwise will cause the car to drift and also speeds up tire wear.

PS--> Should post in the Euro thread which is below the "Accord" icon ;)

[aaronng]

Moved to the Accord Euro section.

[tony1234]

Im not sure about VSA and all, but lowering too much may shorten the life of the shocks if only lowering springs are installed. Its best to change shocks and springs in one go or more commonly, just go for coilovers so u can adjust ride height etc.

Good shocks and spring combo would probably be Bilstein or Koni shocks with Eibach springs. Also, rmb to get rear camber kit otherwise will cause the car to drift and also speeds up tire wear.

PS--> Should post in the Euro thread which is below the "Accord" icon ;)
Agree^^^.Just don't lower it too much.I've got Bilstein/Eibach combo and the drop is approx.35mm.Just right in my opinion.

[E_Honda]

I called my local Honda dealership and they don't know either if it will effect any safety features by lowering the car, and when i called Honda head office they said 'Honda don't recommend any modifications to their cars' (which was an answer i was expecting to hear from them lol)

I just want to be sure before making changes to my ride height. I don't wanna hurt my baby :p

thanks for the replies so far guys.

[yfin]

Well if it gives you any comfort Honda itself sell a suspension kit for the Euro in various markets but not Australia. It lowers the vehicle by 3cm. Do they adjust the calibration of VSA or ABS when fitting this sports suspension kit? No.

[ENVSSS]

I've got mine lowered with coilovers, camber kit, upgraded RSB and front tower brace and I can't remember the last time the VSA did anything (apart from TC). With Mods like that you would have to push your car much more than you previously would have to get it to think you were in trouble.

[DLRioM]

By having larger wheels you have already effected the efficency of the vsa therefore i wouldnt worry about the effect the springs will have if any
refer to manual

[yfin]

By having larger wheels you have already effected the efficency of the vsa therefore i wouldnt worry about the effect the springs will have if any
refer to manual

rolling diametre does not necessarily change by fitting 19" wheels

[snYpz]

rolling diametre does not necessarily change by fitting 19" wheels

So your saying 19" are fine as long as it's using the thin profile tyres such that the overall diameter is similar to the stock tyres?

[DLRioM]

rolling diametre does not necessarily change by fitting 19" wheels

Yes but it would change the weight and most probably the diameter. Pg93 of manual makes a point of how important it is not to make any changes to the set up. Id say 19s are a considerable change...

[stephen8512]

changing to large rims will also put the speedo off a little bit at higher speeds. so a recalibration of the speedo may be needed.

[yfin]

So your saying 19" are fine as long as it's using the thin profile tyres such that the overall diameter is similar to the stock tyres?

There is no guarantees with any change you make to the vehicle. However, if you stick with the same overall diameter within 1 or 2%, don't change offset wildly and don't add the heaviest chromies you can find - the VSA works fine.

[kupang]

how much is Bilstein shock cost?

[Suntzu]

I need to see the data on how VSA operates.

If its via G sensors and as i understand it in australian euros only the front wheels have the sensors not all 4 wheels. Then I cant see how lowering and suspension rims would have any effect other than the fact that you might not engage VSA as much as your car has a low centre of gravity and higher amounts of grip.

I know I RARELY see VSA kick in now I have good tyres, lowered and tein SS suspension. I used to see it all the time with stock suspension.

[E_Honda]

Ok, i've done my own bit of research and read about how VSA works.

There are wheel speed sensors, yaw sensors (which monitor horizontal angle of the car), steering angle sensor, a lateral acceleration sensor and a few other components all controlled by the VSA-ECU.
On a stock car, when the car loses control and tilts horizontally past a certain value that the yaw sensor detects is trouble the VSA will kick in. So if the car is lowered the car will have to go to more extreme angles before VSA will come online. So basically VSA is pointless once you lower the car. So ENVSSS is right when he says you'd have to push the car way further than you previously would have to on a stock setup for it to think your in trouble.

This site really explains it with diagrams and all:
http://world.honda.com/news/1997/t970702d.html

Let me know what you guys think?

[Pumped]

Kind of on the topic of Lowering affecting Features.
When installing coilovers on a luxury model what happens regarding the self levelling headlights?
am i wrong in believing they attach to the standard shock/strut in some way?

what do you do with where it is attached?

Any information regarding this would be handy!

Thanks

[ENVSSS]

I have a Lux model. When I had my Ingalls camber kit installed, a simple custom bracket was made for the rear sensor arm. In the front the arm attaches to the damper, coilovers don't accommodate this. I detached the front sensor arm an adjusted the sensor manually to get the headlights at a desired level. As far as I presume, once adjusted the leveling system would have little to no effect when lowered as there isn't much more room to move in terms of height once already lowered. It works fine IMO.

[eurofan]

This site really explains it with diagrams and all:
http://world.honda.com/news/1997/t970702d.html

Let me know what you guys think?


brilliant website! :thumbsup:

[yfin]

So basically VSA is pointless once you lower the car.


I wouldn't agree with that. You can still invoke oversteer and understeer in the car once lowered, particularly in wet conditions. The fact that Honda lower this vehicle as an option with no change in VSA calibration means that the system is not dependent on the height of the vehicle to work correctly.

[E_Honda]

I wouldn't agree with that. You can still invoke oversteer and understeer in the car once lowered, particularly in wet conditions. The fact that Honda lower this vehicle as an option with no change in VSA calibration means that the system is not dependent on the height of the vehicle to work correctly.

Yeah i guess saying VSA is pointless when the car is lowered was a bit harsh without knowing 'exactly' how VSA works. :)

I didn't know Honda offer that as an option, the dealership i spoke to didn't seem to have much mechanical knowledge at all. Do you know how much Honda lower the vehicle with their option? and do you have pricing?

[tony1234]

how much is Bilstein shock cost?
I've got Bilstein/Eibach combo and rear camber kit.Cost drive in drive out $2100

[tony1234]

Kind of on the topic of Lowering affecting Features.
When installing coilovers on a luxury model what happens regarding the self levelling headlights?
am i wrong in believing they attach to the standard shock/strut in some way?

what do you do with where it is attached?

Any information regarding this would be handy!

Thanks
Bilsteins have the mounting points for the auto levelling headlights.

[EUR003act]

VSA (stabilty assist not the traction control part) uses sensors to detect two things:
the way you want the vehicle to travel
and the way in which the vehicle is actually travelling

when these two are different, the cars computer uses thousands of complex logarithms to determine what features have to be activated/controlled to correct the problem. (generally braking the left or right wheel independantly)... this creates a spin in the correct direction putting the car on course...

try to think of a canoe in the lake... your travelling forward not paddling, you stick one paddle into the water on the right side of the canoe... it turns right... this is the same basic theory used for VSA...

so technically any changes to the wheels/suspension will change how VSA works (because those factors werent taken into consideration when the programming was done) however, VSA is so complex/complete (hondas version anyway) that things like different wheels (aslong as rolling diameter is still approx the same) and suspension (height/damper/stiffness) wil not affect its functionality... in some cases it will improve it eg: 225 tyres instead of 205=more lateral grip.

i hope that helps?

[Tobster]

I didn't know Honda offer that as an option, the dealership i spoke to didn't seem to have much mechanical knowledge at all. Do you know how much Honda lower the vehicle with their option? and do you have pricing?

Not available in Australia -- but it is offered in Japan, UK and USA.

[E_Honda]

Not available in Australia -- but it is offered in Japan, UK and USA.

do you have a website, contact numbers or anymore info on this option?

thanks.

[E_Honda]

VSA (stabilty assist not the traction control part) uses sensors to detect two things:
the way you want the vehicle to travel
and the way in which the vehicle is actually travelling

when these two are different, the cars computer uses thousands of complex logarithms to determine what features have to be activated/controlled to correct the problem. (generally braking the left or right wheel independantly)... this creates a spin in the correct direction putting the car on course...

try to think of a canoe in the lake... your travelling forward not paddling, you stick one paddle into the water on the right side of the canoe... it turns right... this is the same basic theory used for VSA...

so technically any changes to the wheels/suspension will change how VSA works (because those factors werent taken into consideration when the programming was done) however, VSA is so complex/complete (hondas version anyway) that things like different wheels (aslong as rolling diameter is still approx the same) and suspension (height/damper/stiffness) wil not affect its functionality... in some cases it will improve it eg: 225 tyres instead of 205=more lateral grip.

i hope that helps?

Thanks mate, thats a really simple way of explaining VSA.

I might look further into Honda's option of lowering the car just to get more of an idea of what parts they use to lower the car, but i might have to call a different dealership since my local one didnt have any idea.:thumbdwn:

[aaronng]

I might look further into Honda's option of lowering the car just to get more of an idea of what parts they use to lower the car, but i might have to call a different dealership since my local one didnt have any idea.:thumbdwn:
They use springs and lowered shocks. That is what the A-Spec kit (Honda and Acura) is all about.

Here, item #15: http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCESS/automobiles/accord/modulo.html

Use google or babelfish to translate it.

[E_Honda]

They use springs and lowered shocks. That is what the A-Spec kit (Honda and Acura) is all about.

Here, item #15: http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCESS/automobiles/accord/modulo.html

Use google or babelfish to translate it.


Thanks for that link mate, its got exactly what i was looking for. :thumbsup: