DYNO Result Low - Help!

[Suntzu]

I've decided to do a heap of mods to my engine which is stock at the moment. See Suntzu's Mod Log (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69193)for details.

I therefore decided to get a baseline Dyno today before adding mods.

Heres the result:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6472/dynosmallch5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

86.5 KW WTF!
Its really low as you can see and the manager told me my car is running ULTRA RICH. He told me to get honda to have a look at it.
I warmed the car up with a 4 km drive and did it really softly so it might have been a bit cold but the engine temp was in the normal range.

I don't know what gear it was in. I do know that he forgot to put the VSA off initially then realised and then did the run. Two runs in fact.

One big issue I saw was that when i got the car back the engine check, VSA and every other warning light was on. I stop my car and turned it off, restarted and drove off and all the lights cleared. The car drives fine, its got plenty of power and feels good.

Im thinking that the engine management went nuts when the first run with VSA was on and that it didn't clear during the dyno run so the ecu ran it super rich as a fail safe? Any ideas?

How can I tell what gear was used?

I need some advice about sorting this so i can get a proper dyno run...

[BiLL|z0r]

If I were you I'd get Honda to look at it first.
When I did my dyno run the VSA was on at first and had no effect on the final run (over 110kw for a 5AT stock). The warning lights also stayed on for 30seconds or so afterwards so that's normal.

If Honda say it's ok, go somewhere else for another run and make sure VSA is off from the start.

[Suntzu]

Thanks for that info Bill, at least I know that the engine check light is normal.

The thing I dont get is that the car feels like its got a heap of power and is very responsive and smooth to drive, as per normal. Its also not using any more fuel than usual.

Im worried honda will think im an idiot if I rock up waving a dyno sheet!

Would running the car in the wrong gear do this ? Its a manual.

[EUR003act]

hey buddy, i did my dyno there too, first run VSA on, second run VSA off... both within 1-2kw of each other, so it didnt really affect anything...

yeah my fuel ratio was around 12-12.5... so you are running pretty rich... 86kw!?!? thats not good at all... atleast it proves my car didnt run on a dyno with wacked figures :p so my 130.9kw is awesome :p lol

sorry to be basking in your bad fortune :(

if it makes you feel any better, my new boot came today, and the corners got f*#$en bent in transit!!!

[stephen8512]

what gear was it in when u got this reading? did u do the dyno in 3rd or 4th?

[Suntzu]

Ive got no idea what gear. Might have been 4th or 3rd?? Will this have a big effect on the result? Im about 30kw down!

[sodaz]

If those dyno figures are accurate then your car should feel EXTREMELY sluggish and slow. And since you are not feeling that, there's a good chance the dyno is not giving accurate readings. From what I've seen a stock manual Euro usually makes around 105kw atw on the Dyno Dynamics dyno. You're getting 86.5kw stock and EUR003act is getting 130.9kw with a few basic mods? Something's doesn't add up. :confused::confused:

[Suntzu]

You know its only about 3-4km to the dyno place. I was showing some engine temp but not a lot. On top of that im running 98 ron. Car was dead cold when i left.

Im thinking my car was in warm-up mode?? Is this possible/feasible?

[EUR003act]

If those dyno figures are accurate then your car should feel EXTREMELY sluggish and slow. And since you are not feeling that, there's a good chance the dyno is not giving accurate readings. From what I've seen a stock manual Euro usually makes around 105kw atw on the Dyno Dynamics dyno. You're getting 86.5kw stock and EUR003act is getting 130.9kw with a few basic mods? Something's doesn't add up. :confused::confused:

my 130.9 was a true and accurate reading :angel:

lol im going back to pulford end of november for another toyota dyno day, ill get mine done then and see how it goes, hopefully have puleys/headers/gasket all on by then!

[stephen8512]

but remember, ur 130.9 was made in shootout mode

[EUR003act]

but remember, ur 130.9 was made in shootout mode

whats shootout mode??

[stephen8512]

-_-;;

quote from this link - http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1369380


yeah is was done in shootout mode... and yes i know its not comparable to all other dynos, im justtrying to show the guy who bought that k&n CAI that he's not loosing power...
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7038&d=1191194225

u said it urself...so were BSing and just saying it was done in shootout mode when u dont even know what it is?

[EUR003act]

u said it urself...so were BSing and just saying it was done in shootout mode when u dont even know what it is?

how is me confirmning that it was done in shootout mode BSing anything? all i did was look at the sheet where it said "shootout mode" thats how i knew i did it in that! i never said i knkew what it was?

i cant see shootout mode making the readings higher?? that would be falsefying dyno results/tunes and i dont think dyno dynamics would do that on purpose?!? maybe its a mode for competions? where you do to runs and the highest wins? i have no ideas, but maybe seeing as your so smart you can tell us all?

[350G]

sell yr car and get something better b4 u put so much money on it.

[EUR003act]

sell yr car and get something better b4 u put so much money on it.

why are you even on ozhonda?

and ive had this argument/discussion many times... i dont want to buy a car that everyone has! i want to have something different, i want to have a one of a kind...

any rich boy can get daddy to buy them a nice car, but it takes an enthusiest to make something exceptional....

[stephen8512]

how is me confirmning that it was done in shootout mode BSing anything? all i did was look at the sheet where it said "shootout mode" thats how i knew i did it in that! i never said i knkew what it was?

i cant see shootout mode making the readings higher?? that would be falsefying dyno results/tunes and i dont think dyno dynamics would do that on purpose?!? maybe its a mode for competions? where you do to runs and the highest wins? i have no ideas, but maybe seeing as your so smart you can tell us all?

no need to get touchy mate.... just smells like BS to me is all. but each to their own. i still find it very hard to believe that u achieved 130.9kw with just a removed centre muffler and a K&N SRI. and im also just wondering why u took down the dyno sheet that was up on that link?
its kinda like someone saying "i have coilovers.......whats a coilover?"
presumeably if someone does/has done something then u'd think they'd have at least some knowledge on it.... but again thats just me

now admittedly i wasnt sure what shootout mode meant when i first read it on that page so i did a bit of googling and came up with this site

http://www.xspeed.com.au/tech_features.php?tech_id=19

it says that on the site, (proof of integrity bit) if the car was done on shootout mode :
Proof of integrity
1. All ShootOut graph runs must be supervised by an accredited ShootOut scrutineer.
2. When the Shootineer is confident that the run has been performed to Dyno Dynamics’ ShootOut standards, the approved ShootOut logo will be added to the graph.
3. Test conditions and other data is printed on the lower edge of the graph as further evidence of accuracy.
4. When the graph is printed, the Shootineer will apply the official ShootOut stamp and personally sign it.
5. As final proof, the customer is provided with a checklist to verify that all steps in vehicle preparation for the test have been carried out correctly.

so to see if your dyno sheet is authentic, and if u really claimed it was made in shootout mode, can u post the dyno graph up again?
and if it was (im giving u the benefit of the doubt), i still wont be 100% certain how shootout mode/normal dyno runs differ, and i'll still find it hard to believe u achieved a 130.9kw, but i'd be leaning more towards believing your readout.
then again, u dont have to prove anything. its just that many euro owners before you have dyno'd their euros and couldnt even get a reading close to 130 with minimal mods such as what u have got......so thats why i guess im intrigued, and ready to call the BS card....
no hard feelings....just my 2c and how i see it

[EUR003act]

no need to get touchy mate.... just smells like BS to me is all. but each to their own. i still find it very hard to believe that u achieved 130.9kw with just a removed centre muffler and a K&N SRI. and im also just wondering why u took down the dyno sheet that was up on that link?
its kinda like someone saying "i have coilovers.......whats a coilover?"
presumeably if someone does/has done something then u'd think they'd have at least some knowledge on it.... but again thats just me

now admittedly i wasnt sure what shootout mode meant when i first read it on that page so i did a bit of googling and came up with this site

http://www.xspeed.com.au/tech_features.php?tech_id=19

it says that on the site, (proof of integrity bit) if the car was done on shootout mode :
Proof of integrity
1. All ShootOut graph runs must be supervised by an accredited ShootOut scrutineer.
2. When the Shootineer is confident that the run has been performed to Dyno Dynamics’ ShootOut standards, the approved ShootOut logo will be added to the graph.
3. Test conditions and other data is printed on the lower edge of the graph as further evidence of accuracy.
4. When the graph is printed, the Shootineer will apply the official ShootOut stamp and personally sign it.
5. As final proof, the customer is provided with a checklist to verify that all steps in vehicle preparation for the test have been carried out correctly.

so to see if your dyno sheet is authentic, and if u really claimed it was made in shootout mode, can u post the dyno graph up again?
and if it was (im giving u the benefit of the doubt), i still wont be 100% certain how shootout mode/normal dyno runs differ but i'll still find it hard to believe but i'd be leaning more towards believing your readout.
then again, u dont have to prove anything. its just that many euro owners before you have dyno'd their euros and couldnt even get a reading close to 130 with minimal mods such as what u have got......so thats why i guess im intrigued, and ready to call the BS card....
no hard feelings....just my 2c and how i see it

i deleted it because i had to many attachments in threads and i needed the space... ill post it up again, i dont think there was a shootout engineer there, but as you'll see in the results, it says "shootout mode"...

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7150&d=1192620351

i wasn't getting touchy, i just didnt approve of being called BS when i know i dont BS, and i do not wish to tarnish my reputation on ozhonda.

[stephen8512]

fair enuff. i stand corrected. i wasnt tryin to tarnish ur rep or anything. but when i feel like someones BS'ing i know i cant just sit still. its just how i am i suppose....
if that really is the readout from ur euro with just an SRI and removed centre muffler...and to achieve those sorts of figures with minimal mods.....then that begs the question, WTF have hondata/J-tune have to offer with their so called "extreme flash" ?! cuz their hub dyno results generate 158kw or something, which would roughly convert it to about 135kw on the wheel roller dyno...

and yes, u cant compare dyno figures but still....

[Suntzu]

Cut the bitching I need constructive advice.

[EUR003act]

Cut the bitching I need constructive advice.

haha russ, sorry my bad, i started it :(

stephen - i also have engine earthing kit, and dont worry about before... no hard feelings :D

russ, id say take it to honda, cause whether the dyno is out or not, your air fuel ratio is all over the shop! not to mention rich...

[stephen8512]

earthing kit wouldnt do THAT much. it may give u a tiny bit, but its very minimal in terms of results gained...compared to one that doesnt have it. maybe 1-3 extra kw

and firstly find out if ur car was in 3rd gear or 4th gear when doing the dyno
from what i know, 3rd tends to give a higher reading when pulled all theh way to redline than when a car is dyno tested in 4th gear all the way to redline.

if it was done in 3rd and u got that figure, then get ur A/F ratio's checked. make sure ur not running rich.

then dyno again

[EUR003act]

earthing kit wouldnt do THAT much. it may give u a tiny bit, but its very minimal in terms of results gained...compared to one that doesnt have it. maybe 1-3 extra kw

and firstly find out if ur car was in 3rd gear or 4th gear when doing the dyno
from what i know, 3rd tends to give a higher reading when pulled all theh way to redline than when a car is dyno tested in 4th gear all the way to redline.

if it was done in 3rd and u got that figure, then get ur A/F ratio's checked. make sure ur not running rich.

then dyno again

i dont know whether you were talking to me or russ in that last bit, but i know mine was done in 4th gear because the previous dyno (toyota celica club) had been done in 4th aswell and the were giving out most improved trophies and stuff...

as for the earthing kit, yeah i dont think it wouldve given any more than maybe 1kw...

[350G]

why are you even on ozhonda?

and ive had this argument/discussion many times... i dont want to buy a car that everyone has! i want to have something different, i want to have a one of a kind...

any rich boy can get daddy to buy them a nice car, but it takes an enthusiest to make something exceptional....

Why cant I on ozhonda? I owned many Honda b4 and an EUro as well.
New model is up soon and you want a one of a kind car... you may have luck when u are the first customer order the new euro then

I just feel a waste of money on performance mod on a EUro from my exp on my euro.

[ENVSSS]

Sorry to be off topic a bit but:

New Euro won't be till 2009:

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/sedans/spy-shots-2009-honda-accord-euro-acura-tsx/

Besides, going off the release of the Accord (Inspire) and its new engine, the new Euro would be lucky to have about a 20kw increase in power. It is just going to have the new A-VTEC 2.4 I4, still FWD. So I think the current model has far more potential for power gains as it has been around since 2003 and far more supported products are available. In term of modifying why wait for the new one, you'll be in the exact same position most euro owners were in when the car was released.

[EUR003act]

Why cant I on ozhonda? I owned many Honda b4 and an EUro as well.
New model is up soon and you want a one of a kind car... you may have luck when u are the first customer order the new euro then

I just feel a waste of money on performance mod on a EUro from my exp on my euro.

i wasnt saying you cant be on ozhonda... but for someone with 350G as their name, newcomer written underneath it, to tell me not to waste money on a honda, didnt say much to me...

being the first to buy a car doesnt make you special - it just means itll depreciate faster than someone who waits a year (and you'll loose alot of mone on an unproven car!)


Sorry to be off topic a bit but:

New Euro won't be till 2009:

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/sedans/spy-shots-2009-honda-accord-euro-acura-tsx/

Besides, going off the release of the Accord (Inspire) and its new engine, the new Euro would be lucky to have about a 20kw increase in power. It is just going to have the new A-VTEC 2.4 I4, still FWD. So I think the current model has far more potential for power gains as it has been around since 2003 and far more supported products are available. In term of modifying why wait for the new one, you'll be in the exact same position most euro owners were in when the car was released.

haha yes! thanks for that buddy... and yes i agree, K24 has potential to be the best honda engine... yes the K20 has more power stock, but thats only kw - not torque... the K24 can easily be beefed up to beat many turbo'd engines...
not going into disputes and all that stuff (been down that road before) but i love honda K-series engines, im sure every honda owner would agree, i see no need to sell my euro... besides its not all about power, do WRXs ave heated leather seats? (i live in canberra - u should understand the importance of these during winter)

[aaronng]

Stop the hate or I'll have to close poor Suntzu's thread.

Suntzu, your A/F ratios are fine. They are actually better than mine. If I remember correctly, mine was reading 10.2:1 all the through VTEC. You should have warmed your engine up fully. 4km is insufficient to get to operating temperature in time for any redline full throttle runs. Instead of worrying about the low power, I'd be more worried about engine wear from revving a cold engine. Since your car doesn't feel like 86.5kW when you drive on the street, I'd say the dyno's either out of whack or he printed the wrong dyno file.

[aaronng]

and firstly find out if ur car was in 3rd gear or 4th gear when doing the dyno
from what i know, 3rd tends to give a higher reading when pulled all theh way to redline than when a car is dyno tested in 4th gear all the way to redline.
From the cutoff at 180 for both Suntzu and EUR003act's dyno, they were both done in 4th gear.



if it was done in 3rd and u got that figure, then get ur A/F ratio's checked. make sure ur not running rich.

then dyno again
Suntzu's AFR is fine. Mine was richer than his when I did my dyno run. EUR003act's AFR however looks very much like a torque curve. LOL

[yfin]

Its really low as you can see and the manager told me my car is running ULTRA RICH. He told me to get honda to have a look at it.


this guy doesn't know what he is on about. And why did you only do one dyno run and what gear was this?

[BiLL|z0r]

this guy doesn't know what he is on about. And why did you only do one dyno run and what gear was this?

Thats a good point. My first run was very low too, then 2nd higher, then 3rd the best. I'll look at my dyno sheet when I get to work and even scan it in if you like. Even though it's a 5AT it may help or at least give something to compare to.

[tony1234]

IMO Suntzu stuff the dyno results.It's the butt dyno that counts.:p

[Suntzu]

Thanks Yfin and aaronng. Thats the kind of info i was after.

I think it was a combo of a cold engine and the wrong gear and only 2 runs.

I took my car for a hit and it easily under 8 secs for the 1-100.

Im not so worried now. Thanks for the constructive advice.

You other guys need to get girlfriends and CTFD.

[albii]

sell yr car and get something better b4 u put so much money on it.

your a moron mate......you know the guy sitting next to you at the lights in his audi tt is saying the same thing about you.

[Tobster]

Slightly off-topic, but this is just a few thoughts about the 130 kW dyno:

It would seem to me that it comes back to the old argument that dynos don't reflect real world driving conditions. An SRI is probably the most effective intake for the greatest power gain -- but they generally don't work as well in real driving conditions due to heat soak. Put an SRI on a dyno though, with an open bonnet and a big fan blowing lots of cold air, and you'll probably see an impressive result.

The moral of the story: use the dyno to compare if a mod has made any difference, but that will be under THOSE particular conditions and may not reflect real-world driving -- so treat dyno results with care.

The other things I would suggest (and it's possibly not such an issue in a manual car, but there may be something) is that the engine management learns from the way you drive. I remember reading when Wheels had an auto Euro for a long term; they timed it doing laps of the car park. After a week of driving hard and fast, they shaved a second off their times -- because the computer had learnt that it was to go hard and fast.

I suppose I'm suggesting that if you only tootle around town, then the engine isn't going to respond to its highest output if you go stic it on a dyno. Drive it hard for a few days, and then go dyno it -- and you might find a difference.

I think it was Yfin (can't find the post) who said some time ago that his car felt more responsive the day after going for a weekend blat. The computer learned to respond in a more sporting manner.

Just a few thoughts (don't take it as gospel)...

[aaronng]

Also, VSA should have been turned off because the ECU sees a dyno as a wheelspin condition and can keep cutting and restoring throttle to counter it. When I did my dyno, VSA was turned off and after 3 runs, none of my ABS/VSA/CEL warning lights were flashing.

To all those arguing about the dyno sheet being real or fake, "shootout mode" means that no calibration was made to relate dyno rolling speed to the engine RPM. In addition, no temperature and pressure corrections are made unlike what US dynos do with the new SAE corrected method. The purpose of shootout mode is to make all dyno runs on that particular dyno day to be comparable to each other (if the temperature increases as the dyno day goes on, then it is detrimental to the later runners). Therefore, you can't compare dynos carried out on different days because of temperature and pressure changes let alone compare dyno readings from different dynos (maintenance, calibration and location issues).

[350G]

your a moron mate......you know the guy sitting next to you at the lights in his audi tt is saying the same thing about you.
Just an Audi TT is not good enough to say this my friend.
I never said you are stupid modifying a Euro as I did exactly the same before on MYEURO. But now i was just wasting my money performance wise. Dont get me wrong.

[350G]

i wasnt saying you cant be on ozhonda... but for someone with 350G as their name, newcomer written underneath it, to tell me not to waste money on a honda, didnt say much to me...

being the first to buy a car doesnt make you special - it just means itll depreciate faster than someone who waits a year (and you'll loose alot of mone on an unproven car!)


I am actually talking to Suntzu . He said "I've decided to do a heap of mods to my engine which is stock at the moment." which is exactly the same thing I was told ages ago. Now I felt he is right and I just advise him not to spend $ on HEAPS OF MODS to his engine. That's what i am saying. BTW, I got a new login name b4 you join this site =).

[EuroAccord13]

Let's all go to the track and let the times do the talking...

EACH dyno read differently.... 130kws on one Dyno may only read 110 on another... It does not reflect the real power or performance of the car..

I say this SOOOO many times.... Humidity, temperature and all other natural elements we cannot control makes a difference.... Also, Dynos need to be calibrated regularly, ask for proof of calibration.....

If you all want to brag about power and such, I can organise a Dyno day and a Drag day and we all can go have some fun! :D


BTW, 350G was once a Euro owner and a member before alot of you.... He merely signed up a new name.....


BTW Suntzu, your A/F is fine.... I've seen worse... I've also see ultra lean A/F ratio that can make a car explode.....:D

[r-r-redEuro]

typeG ?! is that you ? lol

[xqwzit]

hmm someones busted lol

[EUR003act]

\If you all want to brag about power and such, I can organise a Dyno day and a Drag day and we all can go have some fun! :D

yes, do it :p

lol but you gotta wait till i sort out my boot problems...

Suntzu - don't forget that it can take 5-7days for the engines computer to get used to (re calibrate) to the change in intake... so once its all installed, wait a week before dyno :D

[TEMPTN]

Lol At This Thread!

[Suntzu]

Random and spammy doesnt even begin to describe it...

Ive got the help i needed thanks to a few helpful people who actually posted relevant comments so someone should close this monstrosity....

[aaronng]

Closed as requested. :)