ECU hondata Vs. Power Fc

[Sp3rMz]

This probably has already been asked but I'm just wondering what people prefer or are using Hondata or Power FC. And pros and cons of each one.

Thanks

[ECU-MAN]

for street use, hondata.

[pornstar]

power FC :)

[b-defekt]

Finding someone who is highly expierienced in tuning a power FC would prove to be quiet difficult. How the unit is tuned to suit your car is most important. Hondata seems to be the more efficient choice.

[alan]

This probably has already been asked

wtf.....does it mean u searched b4 u posted or wot?

[crx_16x]

What sort of car/engine do you have?

Apex PowerFC
Pro
Power FC is plug and play for OBD2 cars.
Con
But you have to tune via hand controller unless you have a tuner that has the software.

There is a company in New Zealand that has developed an interface for the Power FC so you can tune it effectively without the software.
I have forgotten the link though :roll: .

Hondata
Pro
Hondata has great dealer/support in Australia.
Con
If you have an OBD2 car you will have to convert to OBD1.

Go Hondata.

[pornstar]

y is the handcontroller a con? it works the same way...

[McChook]

...

[tanghy]

lol mc u so funny

[crx_16x]

Handcontroller is a con only as i have read that the resolution of maps is not as good as when tuning from a laptop.
This is only what i have read i have never used a Power FC.

Anyway......

Datalogging for the Power FC!!


http://www.fc-datalogit.co.nz

[pornstar]

lol, nah hondata is better. id use hondata, but power fc is good for 2 things/reasons. dc2 and civic R's are the only power fc made for hondas, and they are plug and play, like hondata but the main reason is that u ondt have to convert to odb2-odb1 etc.

[TODA AU]

These are the Power FC's you can get & what they suit...

414-H001 Civic TYPE-R EK9 '97.6 - '98.8 B16B - AH01
414-H002 Integra Type-R DC2 '95.9 - B18C - AH02
414-H003 Civic TYPE-R EK9 '97.6 - '98.8 B16B - AH03
414-H004 Integra Type-R DC2 '95.9 - B18C - AH04
414-H006 Civic TYPE-R TURBO EK9 (turbo) '97.6 - '98.8 B16B - AH03T
414-H007 Integra Type-R TURBO DC2 (turbo) '95.9 - B18C - AH04T

Hondata has more functions & laptop programability...
Both deliver same results with same state of tune...
For a first time user, the FC hand controller can be troublesome...

[wynode]

This probably has already been asked but .......


And you din't search?

James (BLKCRX) made a post with a link to his website which highlughts the difference between the major ECU brands.

[JSL]

This probably has already been asked but .......


And you din't search?

James (BLKCRX) made a post with a link to his website which highlughts the difference between the major ECU brands.

The Link doesn't work anymore.. Maybe we can ask James to repost a working link :)

[pornstar]

wyn, he might be looking for an unbiased comparison...

[bizee_1]

What sort of car/engine do you have?

[Jigga]

Go hondata man, boosted engine or not, its the best, made for honda's

wat more can u say? :lol:

:contact:

Razz Tech
Contact Adrian Razzi
70 Trawalla Av Thomastown 3074
0414 819 805
03 9359 3411

[McChook]

These are the Power FC's you can get & what they suit...

414-H001 Civic TYPE-R EK9 '97.6 - '98.8 B16B - AH01
414-H002 Integra Type-R DC2 '95.9 - B18C - AH02
414-H003 Civic TYPE-R EK9 '97.6 - '98.8 B16B - AH03
414-H004 Integra Type-R DC2 '95.9 - B18C - AH04
414-H006 Civic TYPE-R TURBO EK9 (turbo) '97.6 - '98.8 B16B - AH03T
414-H007 Integra Type-R TURBO DC2 (turbo) '95.9 - B18C - AH04T

Hondata has more functions & laptop programability...
Both deliver same results with same state of tune...
For a first time user, the FC hand controller can be troublesome...

Power FCs have laptop functionality as well. Even if APEXi don't supply it.

Live and learn

www.fc-datalogit.co.nz

Amazing most people don't even know these guys. We use the datalogit software on our race car

[pornstar]

Go hondata man, boosted engine or not, its the best, made for honda's

wat more can u say? :lol:


u know this by how?

[Jigga]

i talk alot to James from hondata 8)

might not be in your view but is in mine, and i recommend it....

Boss had emanage on his turbo sol and it was shit, now got hooked with hondata and its never run better :wink:

[pornstar]

so solving another tuning problem makes it the best? im jsut asking for a technical reason why its the best.

im learning more about ecus as i go, and i thought that by saying their the best u could tell me in what way etc.

[olda]

These are the Power FC's you can get & what they suit...

414-H001 Civic TYPE-R EK9 '97.6 - '98.8 B16B - AH01
414-H002 Integra Type-R DC2 '95.9 - B18C - AH02
414-H003 Civic TYPE-R EK9 '97.6 - '98.8 B16B - AH03
414-H004 Integra Type-R DC2 '95.9 - B18C - AH04
414-H006 Civic TYPE-R TURBO EK9 (turbo) '97.6 - '98.8 B16B - AH03T
414-H007 Integra Type-R TURBO DC2 (turbo) '95.9 - B18C - AH04T

Hondata has more functions & laptop programability...
Both deliver same results with same state of tune...
For a first time user, the FC hand controller can be troublesome...

Can ab explain the difference bn 414-H002 & 414-H004?????????????? THK :confused:

[Jim80y]

AEM EMS owns you all :D

Personally I would still probably go Hondata over Power FC. The AEM EMS though, IMO, is better than both.

[Tofu]

hmm...anyone for MoTec?
many Japanese tuners wonder why we all go goo-goo ga-ga over Apexi Power FC when we have the worlds best ECU at our doorstep??
MoTec!!

[poid]

well i wonder why we use any overseas ECU's at all. Seriously, we have Haltech, Microtech, Autronic and Motec, among others. Not only that, but since they are made here we have the best expertise here for their use and tuning.

The ones i mentioned cover pretty much all price ranges and situations you would ever need. So buggered if i know why we use foreign products...look at the US for example, those guys would give their right nut to use a product like Autronic or Motec over AEM EMS or Hondata

[olda]

AEM EMS owns you all :D

Personally I would still probably go Hondata over Power FC. The AEM EMS though, IMO, is better than both.

AEM EMS too $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :eek:
$ 2.800.00 + del + install/tune

[pornstar]

aem is a pos compared to the Aus ecu's. Autronic and motec crap over pretty much anything else

[ProECU]

I dont want to tread on anyones toes here, but I find these comments very interesting and to be honest naive at times.

The fact of the matter is, it does matter what instrument you use, its the journey that is more important than the destinantion.

These stand alone ECU's are great in my opinion, but they are very expensive, and to be honest, are overkill for street use.
To extract the best performance from these standalone units, you honestly need to use their sensors too, and when you're talking about replacing all sensors on a car, well, thats a major headf&$k.

As for the Piggyback systems, I will avoid these everytime! they trick the signals to the ecu, by altering the resistance / voltage the ECU sees. Anyone with half a brain can use a trimpot to change vtec, but the problem here is, what other routines does the stock ECU use this voltage for....so obtaining a desired result in 1 area, may effect another...... waste of time in my opinion.

On the other hand we have the factory ECU and companies like Hon$a$a and mu$en, etc all base their products around factory equipment.
You may have read in another one of my posts that I have decompiled the stock honda code, as per mugen, hondata and maybe a few others, and in my honest, unbiased opinion, the stock ECU is a wonderful piece!
I dont want to get into company politics at this point but the main reason people are looking towards alternatives is becuase of the rediculous price tag some of these companies are charging for a re-vamped and code revised stock honda ECU (if you all follow me!)

Just be aware, there ARE cheaper alternatives, you just need to look harder.
Poid mentioned that Hondata is an overseas ECU,.. well the company originated in New Zealand.
It is my understanding Hondata began as part of a free community project which grew greedy over time. The information dissapeared & guess what appeared in its place.... you guessed it....Hon$a$a.

Ive been developing the stock ECU for around 4-5years now and as I mentioned, its a great piece. I will be coming out with an alternative to these high price products.
Again its a reworked, recoded stock ECU with features you would only dream about.

For those who are interested, check out
http://australia.pgmfi.org
Nothing special, just a splash page at the moment....keep an eye out, its coming soon!

I digress again, but I have hopefully answered a few questions along the way

Cheers
ProECU

[pornstar]

proECU, what your doing isnt anything new. There are many ecus like that from the USA already, Chromz, Uberdata etc etc. PGMFI is a group already out based in the states from what I know?

If your talking about changing sensors being a headfvck I agree. Autronic and Motec are by far leagues ahead of the rest, the drawback has always been their installation nightmares and the complexity of the systems. But having said that, most people on here wouldnt be installing it themselves nor tuning it themselves. MOst here would fork the dollars to fit it in and get it tuned by a reputable or otherwise tuner. So the headfvcks in most cases is a mute point. I think its great that your developing a new re written ecu like the hondata, uberdata and chromz etc. The more the better I feel.

Im sure though that if you had the big two Autronic or Motec installed correctly there are no other rivals to these ecus in terms fo what they can and cant do. I do recognise though that the ecu is only as good as the tuner, the ecu is a tool to an end, nothing more.

[poid]

ProECU, dont get me wrong. I use a chipped p28 myself because it was the cheapest option that allows me to tune things myself. When i was thinking of just going to get it installed and tuned by someone else i was looking at going Haltech or Autronic as the headaches are taken care of by the installer and they are more than equal to anythigng that may be imported from overseas. Hell with both of those systems you still get the software if you wanna play around, with some of the overseas based systems like Hondata you dont.

My point was just that people look at what is available overseas before considering what we already have here

[sesshoumaru]

What i am interested in reading from the more "knowledgable people" on here (you know who you are!), is their own opinions on their prefered ECU and WHYYY...?

Instead of just saying, xxx is the best, and yyy sucks... please enlighten us morons as to why... :)

[Jim80y]

aem is a pos compared to the Aus ecu's. Autronic and motec crap over pretty much anything else

Agree with you there. But IMO it is better than Hondata.

BTW I paid less than way less than $2800 for AEM, actually a lot less than half that. Install is car specific, plugs into your factory harness and no need for this OBD1 conversion crap.

[ProECU]

OK guys
all valid points, but how many of these are cost effective.
I know I wont pay thousands for an install just so I can say I run a MOTEC.
I know first hand of friends who run motec on their honda rally cars..... they cant get a decent tune even after many hours dyno tuning. The earlier motecs didnt even activate vtec properly.

FYI - PGMFI <- I am one of the original founding members.
Crome(john Cui - P30), Uberdata(Blake -P72) all do a fantastic job.
Along with others, I have been responsible for alot of the features these programs support.

With Hondata you DO get the software, you need to purchase it!

At the end of the day, do you really need a motec to tell you suspension travel distances? breaking G's? cornering G's? these are fantastic, but for a street car, even for amateur drag racers, these are OVERKILL.

I dont know guys, make your own decisions based on the size of you wallets & needs over wants is all im saying.

[poid]

i dont think you can get the software if you purchase Hondata locally. I know you can if you purchase from the US

[Sp3rMz]

I was just curious at peoples comments and reason, thats why i posted my orginal post. Making it more specific or interesting, I drive Dc2r if that makes a differnce.

[Weq]

the main hinderance of these freeware chipping programs is the tuning support. thy arnt setup for noobs to take to any dyno an tune easily in realtime like most piggybacks/standalones support. my understanding is, u need to rechip after ever run.

also AEM EMS, is just called EMS in australia and is quite popular + cheaper - cheaper then hondata aus(tm) i dare say.

btw: ive never had any problems caused by my e-manage piggybak. U guys comment on overkill and support, its been fine for my street applications. it was also really cheap (over half less then a hondata aus(tm) tune) to get dynoed tuned and i have all the software needed to tune it.

[poid]

you can do most of the tuning on the street, then take it to the dyno to double check and to tune the timing. It takes a few seconds to burn a chip so its not really a major issue IMO, at least i havent found it to be a major issue

Besides which, Crome supports real-time and Uber should be pretty close to it (i havent checked on it in ages now)

[ProECU]

my ProECU software allows realtime changes...ie changes on the fly,
no emulation as per hondata....changes are made straight to the ECU in real time

[Weq]

the fact is though, most people dont have a wideband gauge and/or any kind of tuning experience. and i dont know how willing ur average tuner would be to reburn chips every run.

where is the interface for the ecu/computer? people also say these programs have realtime funtionaility, but does it require u to solder in some kind of serial connector?? elaborate pls.

remmeber, for these things to become popular, u have to appeal to a mass market. hondata appeals to plenty of people (in the states) because it is widely supported by dyno/street tuners and via the internet by reps. just as the popular standalones/piggybacks are supported, hear.

[pornstar]

but Weq, his ecu could be sold in various workshops and be tuned by anyone, if he gave out the equipment or he asked a few ppl to learn its functions. wouldnt be hard if used ur usual performance workshop to tune it.

As for the reburning etc, poid knows its a downside, but most if not all australian ecus work real time.

Hondata only appeals to the us market cos of its price in the usa for its function. Check honda-tech carefully and read what they say Weq, im doing the homework now, and the more people that u speak to over there, and around here, the more u will learn.

[Weq]

[QUOTE=pornstar]
Hondata only appeals to the us market cos of its price in the usa for its function.[QUOTE]
what else is there to make u choose an ecu?? lol..

all im saying is that uber/turboedit/chrome etc are all popular for DIY's in the US.almost the same functionaility as hondata(esp the aus(tm) version) and cheap as hell. there are tuners that suport them even! im just saying, realtime tuning is a important feature that doesnt seem to be explained/used much with them..

on a side note, ive seen plenty of great street tuned/ghetto setups pull almost spot on af's on the dyno.. its good stuff..

[ProECU]

Damn Straight its good stuff and in short if you dont have a WB kit, you should not be fooling with ANY ecu!

I need to put some more thought into the marketing aspect of ProECU, however, the main feature of this is the ability to tune in real time.
Burning chips is now a thing of the past! and so too are high prices!

I'll try get a document together soon as a teaser on ProECU for those that are interested.
In the mean time, if you would like me to cover certain material in this document, or have any questions, please feel free to either post them up here, email or PM me.

Cheers
ProECU

[poid]

what kind of prices are you thinking about (you are evan unless i am mistaken, yes?)

It always amazes me how people mess with ECU's without having at least a wideband...they are a hell of a lot braver than i am!!

[ECU-MAN]

Hey Guys. one thing to remember is the Honda ecu is a brilliant peice of electronics. its a brilliant starting ground for any adaptable system eg Hondata, PROecu, Chrome ect. these systems are just manipulating the code of the MCU ( microprocessor ) in the ECU. the Honda ECU is versatile, and very robust and reliable. even when they fail ( due to Human intervention ) the have a world class backup system ( limp home mode ) with its own backup micropocessor with built in ignition and fuel maps, making these ECU's millitry spec. ( not saying they are ) most features of Honda computers arnt even used for most modle cars. they have , two serial ports, One is used by Honda for the DLC. the other is not used ( unless you run aftermaket stuff) . they also have 4 outputs and not sure but mabee 4 inputs as well. these can be used for external featurs ( limmited to code and you imagination ). onboard diagnostics. also support real Time Programming. you can add a LAF sensor ( Linner Air Fuel ) aka wideBand ( which originated for Honda in the civic Vtec E ) and most of all you can pick em up cheap from yards or ebay.

the advantage aftermarket ecus have over using you factory ecu is that there software or method for programming the ecu is simple. to install they can be difficult just like having to modify your ecu to accept crome or Hondata.

all this makes me belive that the Honda ECU is the best thing to run as it a great starting point since its already installed ant tuned to your car. with a decent add on and tune its bullet proof. thats whay I choose Hondata over PowerECu.

it doesnt take much to correctly addapt a Honda ECU to aftermarket equipment just take it to someone who knows what they are doing and there should be no install problems.

my 2c worth

[ProECU]

Whats PowerECU?

[ECU-MAN]

opps I ment PowerFC my appologies

[alan]

ecu with apexi label

[gambate]

so this LAF / wideband sensor from vtec e engine is 'plug in and go' to other honda ECU?

[ProECU]

no its not plug & play

[snowman95]

any hondata reps in perth?

[Weq]

what kind of prices are you thinking about (you are evan unless i am mistaken, yes?)

It always amazes me how people mess with ECU's without having at least a wideband...they are a hell of a lot braver than i am!!

well thats the point. widebands are pretty expensive for one, and also not everyone wants to tune their own shit. people go aftermarket standalones because they are heavily pushed by shops who will support every aspect of installation and tuning. The guy who started this thead had no intension of tuning it himself (or installing it himself)

my point is, even for someone DIY orientaded as myself, i have little knowledge of tuning, and would like that option of having a 'pro' do it, for as little money as the other standard things. ie. it cost me $250 for my e-manage to be tuned (map/injectors/ignition) from a clear basemap on a dyno.

[pornstar]

Weq, jsut to clarify, that tune that u have was not from a clear base map. greddys a piggy backs.

[ECU-MAN]

so this LAF / wideband sensor from vtec e engine is 'plug in and go' to other honda ECU?
no you need to plug it into a LAF kit first unless your going into a Vtec E ECU.