DC4 (B18B) Won't Shift into gear

[dsp26]

Ok peepz… need advice desperately. Mrs just got a DC4 and shes starting to hate it coz of shifting issues. I want her to love it coz I just ordered parts for it :(

OK..problem is:
- Won’t shift cleanly into primarily 2nd & 3rd gear while car is moving
- Will shift into any of them while idle

Whats been done so far:
- Installed solid mounts all round EXCEPT the rear mount
- Re-bled clutch slave cylinder.. fixed it a tad and it came back.
- While car is off, shift into gears 1,2,3 with clutch pedal in and crank the car. Car does not move forward

Now, according to plenty research, the following are the possible causes:
- Slave cylinder
- master cylinder
- pilot bearing
- spring on clutch
- throwout bearing
- pressure plate
- shift fork
- clutch
- Shifter bushes

Observations:
- No leak or paint peels in the firewall, no obvious leaks around the master/slave cylinder
- Clutch pedal is very firm

My conclusions for now:
Am I safe to rule out Clutch/pressure plate/fork & master/slave cylinder due to observations and testing?

Need some enlightenment ASAP please… and possibly ways to test the above listed possible causes if any.



************************************************** ***********
TESTS/CHECKS CONDUCTED: 21/11/07
Master Cylinder
- checked for leaks and paint peels either side of firewall
- clutch pedal doesn't sink/stay

Slave Cylinder
- checked for leaks and paint peels either side of firewall
- clutch pedal doesn't sink/stay
- check bleeder screw (incomplete)

Pressure Plate
- Need to check teeth & engagement by taking starter motor off (Incomplete)

Shift Fork
- Engages visually under slave cylinder boot

Clutch
- Seems to have plenty meat as the grab is good. however, since its a hydro clutch, it will feel the same till theres no mest left
- Shouldn't be an issue unless having come loose as it sits between flywheel and pressure plate, making this the least likely cause

Shifter Bushes
- Visually OK. Shifting through all gears while car is off and clutched in shows no major deviation in linkage path

Pilot Bearing, Clutch Spring, Throwout bearing (Unchecked)





Search Keywords: Slave cylinder, master cylinder, pilot bearing, clutch spring, throwout bearing, pressure plate, shift fork, clutch, Shifter bushes, shifter linkage, crunch, pedal rattle, wont go into gear, shifting problems, shifting issues, wont shift into gear, gearbox

[dsp26]

OK very quick update since i just received a phone call from the mrs...

2nd & 3rd gear crunches now....

She describes the following:
- pedal is significantly softer pressing/releasing than before
- releasing the clutch and taking off results shudder

starting to think it's one of the cylinders, but which one would it be?? do either have the same symptoms or theres noticable differences??

[aaronng]

Check for leaks. Could be either slave or master.

[dsp26]

Check for leaks. Could be either slave or master.

the master we both checked on sunday while under the pedals trying to adjust the piston remember :p no leaks... but um... hows ur back? haha

as for the slave... the leak would be outside/gb casing yes?

[bennjamin]

YEs , because the slave cylinder is outside the gearbox lol.
Pull back the rubber grommet on the outside , and see if the piston itself is in one piece and not leaking or the rubber around the piston is OK

if u need help to where this is , i give up lol.

[aaronng]

I remember, but recheck again. Just in case. Check both.

[dsp26]

sweet thanks gents.

will check again tonight.

In advance though at the chance their OK.... what is the next most likely cause based on observations and how do i check/test for it?

[aaronng]

Is the bite point still in the middle or did it go back down to the floor? When you changed MTF, was the car level with the ground?

[180sx]

how old is the clutch? it happen to my mine half year ago, was thinking the box is gone but when i took it out it was the clutch, i can put up some pics of the clutch if u want ( it didn't go into any gear and have noise too )

[dsp26]

Gday blokes... heres the report after a night of diagnosis with mosquitos feasting on me. btw aaronng.... yeah filled MTF 06 while car was off stands and level... took about 2.5 bottles.

as for the findings:
- didn't witness the soft pedal myself
- won't go into gear during idle now
- when forced into gear during idle, it crunches
- reverse is easier to get into but will crunch the first time
- once i manage to get it into reverse i can go into any gear at idle fine.
- once i release the clutch in neutral, non-shifting issue starts again
- lot of vibration on clutch pedal from 25% to 100% push
- no leak on master cylinder
- no leak on slave cylinder
- clutch fork moves fine... HOWEVER...
- there are quiet a lot of fresh looking metal shavings around the fork & where it connects to the slave... considering it's quiet dirty state.

What around that area would get damaged? sort of leaning towards clutch as 180sx has stated for my own lack of knowledge regarding the full functionality of hydro boxes (previous rides are all cable)

On another note, my mrs will be calling the dealer to have it inspected for warranty claim coz i'm getting sick of fixing cars... IF it is the clutch, i'm guessing thats not a warranty item as it is considered a consumable??

[vinnY]

just an out-there idea but could it possibly be the clutch pressure plate's forks(teeth?) have bent out of shape possibly because of abuse?
or perhaps the thrust bearing is broken/worn and not pushing on the pressure plate enough to release it to put it into another gear?

is the mc for the dc the same as ek? if it is and you want to try another one hit me up with a pm, got a spare one lying around :)

[90LAN]

input shaft bearing or sychros...
is it making any noises on idle ?

[aaronng]

- reverse is easier to get into but will crunch the first time
- once i manage to get it into reverse i can go into any gear at idle fine.
- once i release the clutch in neutral, non-shifting issue starts again

It sounds like the clutch is not fully disengaging when the pedal is down. Do you have anymore brake fluid? Try bleeding it once more. It could also be a faulty clutch slave bleeder screw that is letting air in.

[dsp26]

how do i check/test for that bar taking box of?

may try bennjamin's suggestion of taking the starter out as it seems to be the only way


just an out-there idea but could it possibly be the clutch pressure plate's forks(teeth?) have bent out of shape possibly because of abuse?
or perhaps the thrust bearing is broken/worn and not pushing on the pressure plate enough to release it to put it into another gear?

is the mc for the dc the same as ek? if it is and you want to try another one hit me up with a pm, got a spare one lying around :)

[dsp26]

tis sort of making a rattling noise? and the clutch pedal is vibrating quite a bit... with that in mind, your conclusion would be?


input shaft bearing or sychros...
is it making any noises on idle ?

[dsp26]

It sounds like the clutch is not fully disengaging when the pedal is down. Do you have anymore brake fluid? Try bleeding it once more. It could also be a faulty clutch slave bleeder screw that is letting air in.


will try again mate... depending how things go tomorrow... warranty office advised her to get their preferred mech to check it out tomorrow.

the screw being a solid non mechanical object... i'm guessing i just need to remove it and clean rust off it.. etc??

Apparently it's the MC/SC... which i highly doubt

[aaronng]

the screw being a solid non mechanical object... i'm guessing i just need to remove it and clean rust off it.. etc??

Apparently it's the MC/SC... which i highly doubt

It can be anything until a mech looks at your car. So get that done first.

The bleeder screw can get messed up if the previous owner overtightened it many times. It's not really just a solid object as it is actually hollow and has a flow path and a hole at the side.

[dsp26]

It can be anything until a mech looks at your car. So get that done first.

The bleeder screw can get messed up if the previous owner overtightened it many times. It's not really just a solid object as it is actually hollow and has a flow path and a hole at the side.

will do and we'll see tomorrow... i hope its not any of the cylinders as i was adamant it wasn't and the mrs was.... do you know what it's like to be told by a woman these things.. you met my mrs.. quite a personality huh? you know if shes right, if we ever meet you again she'll ask you or bennjamin to remove my green boxes :(


on another note, original post has been updated with aditional info and search keywords for future searches with anyone having same/similar probs :thumbsup:

[dsp26]

mmk status update....

Mechs said it's the clutch.... i still think it's the pressure plate but either way it's a new clutch kit.

Conclusion comes from:
- Master/Slave Cylinders fine
- metal shavings on fork
- Pedal shudder + noise


The quote to fix is $816 with oem clutch.... so of I go to order HD clutch/light fly from the states instead :p

Does anyone have any objections to the diagnosis before i order the new clutch set tonight? Or is it well justified based on findings?

Thanks in advance.


NOOB QUESTION: All B series clutch/fly the same right?? just want to confirm since part listings have them at the same Spline count and OD.... this is a B18B2 btw...

[destrukshn]

b series hydro clutches are the same.

[dsp26]

b series hydro clutches are the same.

thanks brah!!!:thumbsup:

[aaronng]

The quote to fix is $816 with oem clutch.... so of I go to order HD clutch/light fly from the states instead :p


Ahhh, finally.... BTW, check this out. Good seller too: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EXEDY-CLUTCH-EXEDY-RACING-FLYWHEEL-94-01-INTEGRA-B18_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33730QQihZ005QQitem Z150183411767QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[dsp26]

Ahhh, finally.... BTW, check this out. Good seller too: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EXEDY-CLUTCH-EXEDY-RACING-FLYWHEEL-94-01-INTEGRA-B18_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33730QQihZ005QQitem Z150183411767QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

bloody oath i know aye... both our backs got rooted haha.

Thanks for the linky too... they are my preferred seller and will be buying my 3rd clutch/fly set of em.

My car has the Gripforce-Racing XTR clutch/fly.. worked out to be ~AU$440 shipped.

For everyone else, I highly recommend them... any Clutch/Fly combo ships to Australia for US$139

[dsp26]

oh btw.. thanks to everyone who posted and helped.

I hope this thread will help others troubleshoot in future.

[bennjamin]

yup EBAY sellers FTW. Some stuff can be had for a decent saving including shipping , from the US.

[aaronng]

I hope that you don't have to replace the shift fork as well. But while your transmission is off, ask your mech if it costs much more to change the input shaft bearing.

[dsp26]

^^^yeah it is good point about the input shaft bearing... and bennjamin is my mech doing the work :p

however it stretches the budget heaps already.

shes had the car for a little over a week and shes very upset with the extra expense already...

the fork is a worry as there were plenty miscellaneous fresh metal shavings on and around the actual fork when i checked behind the slave boot.

Will be calling those honda parts places in advance before getting ben to do the install.


Thanks fellas... been a big help and the mrs loves you :D

[Limbo]

last time my car had that issue. All of a sudden i couldn't get into gear and then i could. WHen we replaced the clutch we found a piece of the pressure plate broken inside. Only a 1cm piece. Clutch was perfectly fine, only the pressure plate with a small piece broken

[dsp26]

last time my car had that issue. All of a sudden i couldn't get into gear and then i could. WHen we replaced the clutch we found a piece of the pressure plate broken inside. Only a 1cm piece. Clutch was perfectly fine, only the pressure plate with a small piece broken

yep.. note taken and will check. i'm quite confident it's the pressure plate.. but considering how long it takes to remove and re-install a B series box (which i will never attempt on my own) may as well get everything done right first time and cahnge all of it...

who knows if theres still meat on it, a lucky person on OH can have a freebie.. if their bothered to install it :)

[aaronng]

^^^yeah it is good point about the input shaft bearing... and bennjamin is my mech doing the work :p



Ahhh.. :thumbsup: I'd check for the source of shavings as well. Check for the price of a release fork from the wreckers (or new) just in case.

[dsp26]

Big thanks to Bennjamin for his all day work in changing a clutch without taking the passenger wheel/driveshaft/mid-shaft off (we didn't have the key for lock nut)!! That was real fun and Sophy's bro dropped the gearbox on my neck.. it's ****ing swolen as!!!

Anyways, problem was a piece of the clutch plate.. that seems to support the spring broke/twisted off and got stuck between flywheel/clutch seizing them together.. it explains the metal shavings....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/PC090414.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/PC090410.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/PC090417.jpg

[bennjamin]

PITA that was lol - about 3 hrs too long :P
Remember to come over and re-torque and bleed the clutch etc dude :)

Hope soph' enjoys it :)