View Full Version : FWD vs RWD
OK im starting a big debate on pros and cons of these 2 setups. Please don't abuse each other :thumbsup:
All i know is RWD cars are much faster than FWD cars most of the time. Because you can apply more power to a RWD with out losing too much traction and wheel spins.
Lets not talk about which setup is faster on straights and focus more on HANDLING and the use of it around a track.
I drove a twin turbo Supra, fastest mofo car i ever driven!, (loaded with new TITANS swaybars, CUSCO struts, plus BILSTEIN shocks) last weekend and the rear was "starting" to swing at 70km/hr around a bend, if i had push the gas alittle harder, the tyres (Bridgestone RE001) would have lost grip, causing me to counter steer and the like. It was my first time experimenting a RWD car around a bend :D
Well i've done the same bend on my DC2 loaded with Apexi dampers and SPOON struts, with shitty tyres at a speed of 75-80 km/hr. My car would lose grip around the 80km/hr and you can hear the tyres go screech. It might be a different story if i had track tyres and i could probaly achieve a speed of 85 to maybe even 90 km/hr!!! :p
So i told my friends FWD will own them in cornering anytime around a track. But there is always one friend who says RWD is the best and always the best etc... So am i wrong to assume that FWD is crap and slow around corners?
So... what are your thoughts guys??? Please discuss!:thumbsup:
Its probably more difficult to drive a FWD fast compared to a RWD on the track. However, in the real world, it all depends on the road conditions.
todaek9
28-11-2007, 10:18 AM
given the same power, same weight, and both with good setup...RWD will be few sec faster on track comparing to fwd...
barefootbonzai
28-11-2007, 12:01 PM
given the same power, same weight, and both with good setup...RWD will be few sec faster on track comparing to fwd...
Is that a proven fact, or did you just make it up?
<E240 Edit: Lets not start..>
regardless i want to know why do fwd and rwd take different lines at a turn.
given the same power, same weight, and both with good setup...RWD will be few sec faster on track comparing to fwd...
Hmmmm, not sure about this but oversteering and rearing out is quite scary at high speeds. Therefore i would probaly go slower because i don't want to lose grip.
The funny thing was my friend told me to convert my FWD to RWD lol... asif anyone wants to waste money doing such conversion. But i have seen it done, where the DC2 engine bay was decked out and place into the boot! So does this mean the DC2 is RWD?
regardless i want to know why do fwd and rwd take different lines at a turn.
Understeer and Oversteer... i guess???
aaronng
28-11-2007, 12:53 PM
regardless i want to know why do fwd and rwd take different lines at a turn.
It's because the points at which FWD and RWD can apply throttle in the corner are different.
intacivic16v
28-11-2007, 01:14 PM
Very very true
It's because the points at which FWD and RWD can apply throttle in the corner are different.
intacivic16v
28-11-2007, 01:24 PM
I've been racing RWD's at hill climbs and circuits for the last 6 or so years, and i love the look that you get when you flog a RWD car. Its almost like they expect to beat you. Last hillclimb i raced againt a full race prepared Ford Escort that has a $10,000 lotus twin cam engine in it, the car is probably worth $30,000. I ended up beating it convincingly with my road driven 1988 vtec converted CRX worth around 7,000.
When i race at state title i drive against full race cars as well, nearly all RWD's and i am competitive with all of them. last hillclimb i broke the record that they hold by half a second.
I have also driven my fathers AE86 toyota sprinter (which has had heaps more money spent on it than my car) around morgan park. It is heaps of fun but my car beats it hands down.
I refuse to believe that RWD's are always quicker than FWD's. FWD's can be just as fast its just a different driving style, just ask the boys at high power racing.
SHOGUNOVDDRK
28-11-2007, 01:39 PM
Well my honest opinion on this topic is mixed...
i do not think either is superior...why you might ask?
well lets look at it this way... they both have there weaknesses and strengths aswell as specialities
oh and wat ^^ he said in the last paragraph
ive driven both and did enjoyed both....but for me i ♥ my honda even though i get flamed for its age, fwd'ness,hondaness and other reasons...doesnt change a thing though :angel:
A FWD isn’t necessarily slower then a RWD up to a certain point, especially on a race track – which is a great equalizer of differences. I guess the disadvantage of a FWD is its ability to put down power past a certain point. A RWD (or even 4WD) car can get more and more power, making it faster and faster...but not necessarily on a race track...
and the world goes round and round...
BlitZ
28-11-2007, 02:05 PM
fark me dead....
shit to normal power (<150kW) - FWD will be quick as you dont break too much transaction + FWD is easier to drive than RWD
high power performance (+200kw) - FWD will shit itself.. no way..
VT1-R
28-11-2007, 02:45 PM
fark me dead....
shit to normal power (<150kW) - FWD will be quick as you dont break too much transaction + FWD is easier to drive than RWD
high power performance (+200kw) - FWD will shit itself.. no way..
I agree.. FWD with about 110kw-150kw will be the best as it maximises its power at the wheels without losing way too much!!.. Most racing honda do not have big ass power at their wheels, they have the optimum, which is what that matters most around the track.
intacivic16v
28-11-2007, 03:23 PM
I agree.. FWD with about 110kw-150kw will be the best as it maximises its power at the wheels without losing way too much!!.. Most racing honda do not have big ass power at their wheels, they have the optimum, which is what that matters most around the track.
very true, to much power in a front wheel drive just means wheel spin, but you can do the same in a rwd as well, but then comes the drifting hehe
xntrik
28-11-2007, 03:34 PM
Traction vs Drift.
Traction vs Drift.
What about this Xntrik?
Definitely grip driving is faster than drift driving. Unless you're Takumi...
I like your new avartar too lol!
xntrik
28-11-2007, 04:05 PM
What about this Xntrik?
Definitely grip driving is faster than drift driving. Unless you're Takumi...
I like your new avartar too lol!
On the contrary, takumi is gangster. drift and goes faster.
lol
on track i'll say fwd, on race ways i'll say rwd.
and my new avatar is also gangster, and i left u a pm on msn regarding payment for my mate
d15z1SUX
28-11-2007, 07:55 PM
think maybe the fwd are easier to drive quicker on tight bends? coz usually they are smaller and lighter.
ps. tired of how some ppl are like fwd = mega understeer around the corners like its the end of the world or something.
it only does when u push it past the limits of its grip...
think maybe the fwd are easier to drive quicker on tight bends? coz usually they are smaller and lighter.
ps. tired of how some ppl are like fwd = mega understeer around the corners like its the end of the world or something.
it only does when u push it past the limits of its grip...
Yes FWD is easier to drive around bends.
Same can be said for RWD when they oversteer, you can correct it by countersteering. With FWD you correct it by slowing down or braking.
Silver-Arrowz
28-11-2007, 08:45 PM
Over a short course there won't be much difference but over a long stint the RWD is better. With FWD the front wheel has to take the load of braking, cornering and putting power down. With a RWD set up it the front wheels are spared the task of putting power down.
Also RWD generally have better weight balancing as the drive train is spread out.
BlitZ
28-11-2007, 09:24 PM
Over a short course there won't be much difference but over a long stint the RWD is better. With FWD the front wheel has to take the load of braking, cornering and putting power down. With a RWD set up it the front wheels are spared the task of putting power down.
Also RWD generally have better weight balancing as the drive train is spread out.
:thumbsup:
honda_ek4
28-11-2007, 09:26 PM
F1's are rwd..
'nuff said
haha.
Yes FWD is easier to drive around bends.
Same can be said for RWD when they oversteer, you can correct it by countersteering. With FWD you correct it by slowing down or braking.
Correcting understeer or oversteer in a fwd by slowing down or braking?
Braking can have some very scary results when you are on the limit in a front wheel drive, especially mid corner.
Gotta agree with most of what has been said, big power isnt going to work with fwd. I have noticed a lot of fwd in low power situations seem to get the power down much more easily than rwd's.
I think the ability to control the car more on the throttle is a big thing in the favour of rwd's.
Really it comes down to the whole package. Something that works together well is what you want, rwd or fwd is irrelevant.
Correcting understeer or oversteer in a fwd by slowing down or braking?
Braking can have some very scary results when you are on the limit in a front wheel drive, especially mid corner.
Gotta agree with most of what has been said, big power isnt going to work with fwd. I have noticed a lot of fwd in low power situations seem to get the power down much more easily than rwd's.
I think the ability to control the car more on the throttle is a big thing in the favour of rwd's.
Really it comes down to the whole package. Something that works together well is what you want, rwd or fwd is irrelevant.
What I meant to say is correcting understeer in FWD by braking or slowing down.
I actually got caught out on that a few times in the wet too in a fwd.
Come around a corner with all the weight to the rear accelerating all of a sudden you lift off (hence the term lift over steer) or brake and the weight will all suddenly transfer back to the front. Results in the rear getting really really light and all of a sudden trying to overtake the front end :) Scary if you are not expecting it! Worse in cars with soft springs prone to weight transfer.
I will say again that a FWD is harder to drive at the limit.
I think I would be inclined to agree with you, only because when they go, they go and you have gotta be quick to catch it.
BlitZ
29-11-2007, 10:55 AM
i believe the opposite.. FWD are easier to drive than RWD at its limits..
if FWD oversteer you jsut gas it some more.. understeer you just back off..
beeza
29-11-2007, 11:13 AM
Oversteer and Understeer (http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/sway3.htm) :)
BlitZ
29-11-2007, 11:20 AM
Oversteer and Understeer (http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/sway3.htm) :):confused:
beeza
29-11-2007, 11:23 AM
:confused:
Just providing a link to the meaning of the 2 :thumbsup:
When you have understeer you and your car go head on and smash front on into a tree :D
When you have oversteer your car swings its @ss and tail whips the tree!
So there you have it.
beeza
29-11-2007, 03:09 PM
Very very nice.Check my sig! Thx :)
Wow im famous now! haha :thumbsup:
SPEEDCORE
29-11-2007, 04:13 PM
i believe the opposite.. FWD are easier to drive than RWD at its limits..
if FWD oversteer you jsut gas it some more.. understeer you just back off..
Trouble is typical person can't break it down and process quick enough to what is actually happening and instinctively hit the anchors when in trouble. :)
I personally find RWD is more predictable at the limits therefore easier.... FWD is easier for average joe to drive briskly.... but more challenging to extract the most from it.
luxobarge
29-11-2007, 05:19 PM
RWD or FWD it doesnt matter... if the person behind the wheel cant drive the car is going to be slow.
Personal preference is to RWD... personally i dont like the steering feedback given by FWD's. FWD's are easier (IMO) to drive on the limit, the threshold before something goes wrong seems to be much greater than if you were in a RWD.
Silver-Arrowz
29-11-2007, 07:06 PM
I find FWD easier to drive at the limit. Brake early to balance the car, turn in and power out once I hit the apex. If the car understeers then nothing a little left foot braking can't fix.
With RWD I like to trail brake in but when you power out I find you can't give as much throttle as a FWD car. Maybe because the RWD car is more powerful on most occasions, but also because to correct oversteer on a RWD car you can't just lift off abruptly and jump on the brakes. Lift off and you cause snap understeer. Left foot brake and you spin. You have to gently get off the accelerator and once the rear wheels grip you can start correcting procedures.
It's all about weight distribution on 4 wheels.
luxobarge
29-11-2007, 07:42 PM
but also because to correct oversteer on a RWD car you can't just lift off abruptly and jump on the brakes. Lift off and you cause snap understeer. Left foot brake and you spin. You have to gently get off the accelerator and once the rear wheels grip you can start correcting procedures.
Hmmm, dont know what RWD's you have been driving... anytime i get snap oversteer in the mx5 (and thats alot) i simply counter steer and if needed lift off the throttle... then theres always the option to touch the brakes to help bring you back in line. (thats regardless of speed aswell... it works at 70kmh around a tight bend or at 135kmh on turn 2 at QR).
Hmm and jumping on the brakes (RWD or FWD) will generally send you into a spin...
SHOGUNOVDDRK
29-11-2007, 08:52 PM
I actually got caught out on that a few times in the wet too in a fwd.
Come around a corner with all the weight to the rear accelerating all of a sudden you lift off (hence the term lift over steer) or brake and the weight will all suddenly transfer back to the front. Results in the rear getting really really light and all of a sudden trying to overtake the front end :) Scary if you are not expecting it! Worse in cars with soft springs prone to weight transfer.
got caught out in the rain at wisemans ferry last week (fog and rain arent nice)
and didnt really have this problem :cool: infact my ass started sliding on the last 2 hairpins :eek:
Blitz: have you ever had an accident?
in my experiences you dont accelerate if your understeering you either A) clutch kick (wouldnt be too advised for fwd unless you know what your doing) B) BRAKE
you keep accelerating and you will be meeting your friend tree with a there pet oww my ass hurts
honda_ek4
29-11-2007, 08:55 PM
It's easier to drive a FWD fast.
Will require a bit more skill to drive a RWD fast.
SHOGUNOVDDRK
29-11-2007, 08:56 PM
Will require a bit more skill to drive a RWD fast.
quoted for truth
Omotesando
04-12-2007, 11:43 PM
Shorter wheel-base - FWD easier to drive. eg. hot hatches.
Normal or longer wheel-base - RWD is 'better' to drive I think. Not necessarily faster but less natural understeer.
Having driven both types, I prefer RWD in general because of better turn in and better handling response. Most of Honda's FWD cars however are exception, esp the Type Rs. they will handle better than most RWDs and corner better. However they out handle much more other FWDs as a comparison.
kraiye
05-12-2007, 12:53 AM
^^^
therefore, civic > pulsar
lol!
i like my FWD in small cars but big cars for most i think are better off RWD.
larger FWD cars seem slower to respond to corrections (almost clumsy) - magna's for example should be RWD (of course :honda: is always an exception) :p
Limbo
05-12-2007, 09:49 AM
This is what i've found.
Driving fast - yeah so long as they are easy corners FWD is easier to be quicker. When it comes to very sharp corners i've found the RWD to be able to oversteer thru abit quicker.
Driving at limits - I've found that FWD is hard to correct when at limits, but easy to predict when your at your limit. RWD is harder to predict the limits but when you loose it is easier to recover.
Main drawback to FWD is that your tyres take alot of punishment, where as with RWD they are distributed abit more, due to having to steer and drive at the same time. Having so much pressure on the tyres makes longer tracks harder in a FWD as you loose grip more. In short tracks FWD seems to be just as good.
ALso i read somewhere that drivetrain loss on a FWD is less than a RWD.
Until the day they make super tyres that don't loose grip then RWD will always have a slight upper hand.
DOn't mean that FWD can't beat a RWD
Driving at limits - I've found that FWD is hard to correct when at limits, but easy to predict when your at your limit. RWD is harder to predict the limits but when you loose it is easier to recover.
That sums it up nicely, it is difficult to drive a FWD at its limit, not your limit. Many of us mistake that driving at our limit is the car's limit, but the fact that most of us are not able to drive to the FWD car's limit.
But I still like my FWD - Actually prefer it over a RWD :-p
DuGong
05-12-2007, 10:43 AM
FWD VS RWD.. watch initial d when takumi vs that yellow civic..
i think that episode can give some real difference between the two, but the RWD ended up on top...
FWD VS RWD.. watch initial d when takumi vs that yellow civic..
i think that episode can give some real difference between the two, but the RWD ended up on top...
LOL!!! Please don't give reference about Initial D............. :thumbdwn:
DuGong
05-12-2007, 11:24 AM
i thought some ppl on this forum was talking about weight distribution and braking... in that one episode it demostrates some of those views...
no offence but i think there is some realism there in that show....
Limbo
09-12-2007, 10:17 AM
yeah but at the end of the day Takumi always wins cos its a movie. (Not that i dislike the movie)
Watch something like BMI when you see real drivers pushing real cars to the limits. You actually see what is happening in reality. Other way is to track your car and see for yourself
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