Another 130kw DC5 Tuned in Syd on the weekend

[BLKCRX]

Hey all I was up in Sydney again on the weekend… flew up Saturday morning n flew back the same nite… (doh but I missed my flight) stupid virgin !! had no flights after 9pm had 2 get on a Qantas flight.. stupid me is always missing flights !!!But missing flight was worth the results, it was like 7pm by the time I finished tuning did’t even think 2 look at the time…

Anyway the car is a 2004 DC5 with some Toda extractors, 2.25” stainless exhaust, me and Dave modified the air box, Hondata style, and installed a intake gasket.

The car like every other car I’ve tuned goes like a bullet, enjoy the dyno graphs, yet another car in Sydney that will chop many unsuspecting cars.

http://blkcrx.hondata.com.au/blkcrx/dyno-syd.jpg

Regards James

[REC4RO]

Danggggg...NICEEEE

[luzinit]

excellent results for the k20! james, do u have any results/graphs of b16a powered cars with hondata?

[Chi]

This wouldnt happen to be allessandros Blue DC5R now owuld it?

If so u can catch a glimpse of it on the upcoming SYD cruise.

And he lives near danny so mabe him and dannys r32 gtr can have a run on old northen road hahahaha.

[OzDC5]

i find this very funny "Travelling Australia tuning DC5 type R with Hondata K Pro+s200 Have your car tuned by the best" hahahahahahah the best!?!!? i believe u do know how to tune but the best i don't evven think your are anywhere near the best.... you also seem to talk so much bull... and too arrogant... just because u know how to tune a lil, dun brag

[spite]

OzDC5 ... there is always going to be someone better at something than you are.

I would love to know who you are sparking up with something like that. I would put money on it that you have 'another' nick your too scared to tarnish by talking it up. If you have something BETTER then by all means let us know.

The simple fact is, the K-Pro is the best solution for DC5R's no matter what anyone tells you.

I have one and wouldn't go back. Even if I didn't get the huge gains that I did in the top end, the mid range gains are worth every cent.

Step up, with your real nick or step out.

Keyboard warriors disgust me.

[Tofu]

honestly...k-pro is a great device...
but i am still yet to be convinced it's "the best ECU solution for the DC5R"

but I'm with Ryan!!....don't start some shit you can't finish OzDC5

[spite]

Tofu ... best now ..... there may be a better one in the future.

[pornstar]

The simple fact is, the K-Pro is the best solution for DC5R's no matter what anyone tells you.



How so? in what way? have you tried everything else on the market for you to make that comment? as much as I dont like keyboard warriors, I dont like ignorant "fact" telling.

So I guess in a way could you step up and tell us why its the best? tell us the drawbacks of the other systems that you have used? Im really dieing to know.

[spite]

Ignorant fact telling? I have been skeptically reading ECU modification information for near 3 years regarding the DC5R and been eagerly awaiting their release.

The Hondata gives improved performance on a car specific basis. Ive got more top end power, more mid range power and less fuel consumption. What else could I ask for?

Many of the plug and play ECU's are standard tuned for 'JDM DC5Rs' which isn't going to work in the first place. Also consider EVERY car is different so why wouldn't you tune a ECU specific to the car?

You know of any better options for Australian delivered DC5 ITR's?

[pornstar]

because u mentioned that they are the best, I assumed that you had tried the rest out.

I agree that u tune an ecu specific to the car, but u do realise that not just hondata can do that?

Im asking what makes the hondata the best. Perhaps you can tell me why its better than a motec or an autronic for example? these 2 ecus are commonly highly regarded ecu's. What does hondata do that these 2 cannot? or what cant these 2 do that a hondata can?

[tinkerbell]

Perhaps you can tell me why its better than a motec or an autronic for example?

price?

value for money?

user features that are relevant to road users, not track users...

pornstar - it is certainly is a case of horses for courses.

can you say what YOU think is wrong with Hondata?

[pornstar]

no i cant, cos i have never used it. Thats why i dont say anything is the best either, cos i havent used the lot.

[LatinoHatchCrap]

I agree with pornstar. Commenting on parts you dont use and just read about its only adding insult to ignorance.
I rock hondata and I've had no problems with it and I love the results Im getting. Hondata :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[pornstar]

I should clarify at this stage. I am NOT saying hondata is not good. I am not saying Motec or Autronic is best. Im not saying anything is best. Im merely pointing to the fact that for you to say something is best, you would need to do more than just read about it. Trying one product that works does not mean its the best out there, its a product that works, and can work well. For you to say its the best, Id imagine u could at least technically explain what advantages there are.

As for value for money, price for power, etc etc, makes it the best choice for a situation but no the best overall. Just correcting and learning myself to be honest.

[spite]

Does Motec and Autronic have support for iVtec? As far as I know these products support the more traditional forms for VTEC from the B and H series motors.

The Ecutek product for WRX's are very similar to the Hondata units and have the same benefits.

I would happily try a Autronic or Motec if it had the feature set (That covered all of what the standard ECU does) and what I NEED. Need is the operative word.

Given the inputs, Hondata gives the best outputs.

[pornstar]

spite, if u didnt know what the autronic and motec could and couldnt do in regard to the iVTEC it would be fair to say then that ur statement about hondata being the best is an unfounded statement?

can hondata allow vtec to engage when ur at 1k rpms? can it allow u to never engage rpm based and only be engage throttle based? can it allow u to retune for ignition points at 5491 rpms at 57.12 load? can it allow u to tune the ignition at say 5492 if say u found that the car needed 1 more degree of advanced at that particular site? can it turn ur air cond or radiator fans of at say a set of parameters when the engine sees say 87degrees of coolant temp where the cars rpm is at 7k rpms in say 4th gear?

i think before u can satisfactorily call something the best outright ud need to explain it abit better. if ur saying its the best for a price range, then maybe u should say that, or if ur saying its the best because its the easiest to install then perhaps u could say that. but saying something is the best full stop really makes it sound like ur saying its the best outright in every aspect or regard. Im not saying that its not, but id like to hear what gives u the belief that it is the best?

[Tofu]

i think what Spite is saying is that it's the best for "his situation"

all those things/features pornstar have mentioned have no relavence to the general car enthusiest...

[neostars]

spite, if u didnt know what the autronic and motec could and couldnt do in regard to the iVTEC it would be fair to say then that ur statement about hondata being the best is an unfounded statement?

can hondata allow vtec to engage when ur at 1k rpms? can it allow u to never engage rpm based and only be engage throttle based? can it allow u to retune for ignition points at 5491 rpms at 57.12 load? can it allow u to tune the ignition at say 5492 if say u found that the car needed 1 more degree of advanced at that particular site? can it turn ur air cond or radiator fans of at say a set of parameters when the engine sees say 87degrees of coolant temp where the cars rpm is at 7k rpms in say 4th gear?

i think before u can satisfactorily call something the best outright ud need to explain it abit better. if ur saying its the best for a price range, then maybe u should say that, or if ur saying its the best because its the easiest to install then perhaps u could say that. but saying something is the best full stop really makes it sound like ur saying its the best outright in every aspect or regard. Im not saying that its not, but id like to hear what gives u the belief that it is the best?

Sorry mate, but k-pro is currently the best solution available for DC5R.
James has dyno figure and user feedback to back it up.
User in USA and Australia.
There are currently 3 ecus that I compare before I got K-pro.
K-pro > mugen ecu, VAFC 2.
So until someone come up wit something better, there no more case for arguement and am happy for James to boast about his product.

cheers

[BlackR]

im pretty sure you can get the VTEC change over to happen at 1000rpm with the K-PRO. But what the hell would the point be on having VTEC with lift if the lift stage kicks in at idle. The are alot more things to consider than VTEC change over and A/F ratios. Im pretty sure that the K-PRO has the ability to change the angles of the cams which alot more ECU's out therecannot achieve and thats where most of the gains come from. Thats why we were all waiting for this product and thats why a number of ECU's have been changing lately because they couldn't do this sort of thing before.

[wynode]

"change the agnles of the cams"

Could you please elborate?

[spite]

pornstar I am aware of all of the features you have listed however I am NOT aware that those ECU's can cater for iVtec.

I think this sorts it ....

http://filestore.redlineau.com/filestore/spite/dyno1-apc.jpg

... and there is more to gain, a bit more tuning on the AFR is required.

I think what also needs to be taken into account is that James is willing to back his product and his customers. Its hard to find reasonable tuners for the more exotic ECU's and ones where you need not spend $5000 tuning every RPM on a dyno.

This is a daily driven car that is tracked on the odd occasion, it's required to be running 99% of the time. Hondata gives that to me.

[pornstar]

Ok chill out ppls, I wasnt having a swipe at anyone. In fact Im friends with james in person. I just dont believe in people saying something is all that and more when there is no proof or proper comparison, ie baseless claims. So before I continue, if your offended, dont, that goes to anyone, I like to question things cos I dont like getting told what is and what isnt without physical proof/basis.

Now I'll try and respond in orderly fashion:
Tofu: I agree that if spite had said that the hondata was the best for his situation, then none of what is being said is relevant as only he can decide that. BUT if you read his comments, its more along the lines of its the best on the market. That I cant agree with without some basis. As for the things I listed as having no relevance, I'm not sure, but in my car, when I open wide open throttle at 3.5k rpms, my vtec activates, ie engages the secondary cams etc. The ecu knows that the car is no longer restricted by the throttle body, and thus allows the engine to consume (by using the more aggressive cam) more air at 3.5k rpms than normally possible without vtec cam profiles being engaged. As for its relevance, I dont see how driveability and power gains are not relevant Tofu in this instance.

Neostars: Like I have said, you compared that hondata to a mugen ecu that is a pretuned chip, and a vafc which is hardly something Id call an ecu. So as far as something coming up and better, have you used a motec? have you used any other full standalone ecu? cos what your comparing there is hardly apples to apples. that would be like say comparing a greddy e-manage to a motec...if u think thats fair well...Again based on 3 ecus that you have trialed, u have called something the best, maybe the best out of the 3 that you have used, then Id agree, but as for the best period...I dont know. As for checking what the feedback of the US people think, ask them a comparison of higher end ecu's and see what they say, i think you will find that their stand is that as a cost effective solution hondata is the better ecu in its price range...But I wont base my argument on what a us forum says nevertheless.

BlackR: as for cam angle changing, you would need to elaborate, cos I dont follow there. If it could do that, well Im not sure what to say... Please fill me in on how it does this, Im only too happy to learn more.

Also your right theres more to consider, well consider this, what revolution does the K series engine feel vibrational resonance most? What does this do to the engine? how can the engine/ecu calibration be configured to overcome this? in what way? That would be a good start for u to consider.

Spite: thats a nice graph want to see my graph? I made 500kws at the wheels, simply by adjusting a few things on the dyno (yes i know it is in shootout mode, but even that varies or can be made to vary).
Moving away from the sarcasm, consider this, what makes the power? The power is made by tuning, not the ecu. the Ecu is a means to an end, and I think that is where people are losing the sight of the big picture.


I agree with you fully about the fact that James stands by his product and his customers. Thats a good point to include in the decision of the ECU, but it does not make the ecu the best. As for tuning every rpm on the dyno on exotic ecus, I agree. But good ecus interpolate between the rpm and load points. Every ecu does this, no ecu in the world works on cell by cell for every single point.

I think your final statement about your car being daily driven and what u required sums up my whole point. That from your experience or from what you know about k pro and other ecus can say without question that the K pro is the best. The hondata gives u what u require and is good for ur circumstance, but what my point has and always was, is that the statement that "hondata is the best" is questionable.

Again, please dont feel like im ribbing ya or giving anyone crap. Im merely trying to educate myself and honda enthusiests with more knowledge, and to best do this, you gotta continually ask questions to learn more, facts and statements especially those affiliated with things are the things that I have learnt to question, they lead you to better informed choices, and better knowledge of what you are receiving.

Hope your not taking it personal. Feel free to inform me of something that you know that backs your statement, as I said Im not saying hondata isnt the best, jsut two things.
1) how can you say it is the best if you have not tried everything else or cant tell me what it is in the hondata that makes it better than the rest?

2) And that it might be the best as you say, if it is, what is it that does this?

Cheers

[genesis]

:confused:

[spite]

Now there is an answer! :).

Whilst I realise there are loads of people with huge dyno graphs, thats a NA DC5R with minimal modifications.

NONE of the other ECUs in the Hondata price bracket come close, and thats the point. As stated before there are really only 3 ECU's for the DC5R that 95% of the people on here would even consider. Of them, the K-Pro is best.

In regards to abilities, James would be best left to answer.

In regards to me not testing the LOT of them, why would I waste the money? I would prefer to learn from other's mistakes.

Im not taking it personally, I am pointing out the fact that this ECU is the better one, of the three. I think your focussing far to hard on one sentance of mine, which in hindsight I should have expanded on.

If I had a 500kw's DC5R ... I probably wouldn't be running a K-Pro although I probably could.

Final thing ..... who is the ever mysterious and obviously quiet 'OzDC5'? :).

[pornstar]

I dont know who ozDC5 is, but I guess i should lighten up, but hey, I wanna learn more about the Hondata. Believe me James educates me most times that we talk, Im actually friends with him and I see him alot. Just being careful about what you say, as I think Honda enthusiest are much like me skeptical until proven otherwise!

I dont know what you paid for yours, but arent K pros like going for 2,500 after tuning?

As for the 500kws, its not a dc5r ;)

genesis, did i say something that confused ya?

cheers for keeping it friendly

[BLKCRX]

To answer the questions andy asked.

Can hondata allow vtec to engage when ur at 1k rpms

YES of corse

can it allow u to never engage rpm based and only be engage throttle based?

YES of course

Can it allow u to retune for ignition points at 5491 rpms at 57.12 load? can it allow u to tune the ignition at say 5492 if say u found that the car needed 1 more degree of advanced at that particular site?

YES of corse it can !!

can it turn ur air cond or radiator fans of at say a set of parameters when the engine sees say 87degrees of coolant temp where the cars rpm is at 7k rpms in say 4th gear
?
Yes of corse it can and does, it has a over heating protection which limits a number of factors on the engine, all which can be fully controlled.

As for motec / Autronic show me a daily driven or race DC5 car ? anywhere in the world ? Kevin from Motec already knows they can’t control some aspects of the k20 engine.

As for other ECU solutions AEM apparently are brining something out, in the next year or so, but not even there s2000 ECU works 100% yet with the dash not working correctly or ivtec along. Ivtec is something very. There price is 2500$+USD. (more than the aust Hondata price)

Simple fact is there is no other solution for the k20 engine that will control all the features such as cam angle vvi vvt and ivtec etc, the k20 engine is totally(currently)
The k20 engine is totally different from b’s n h’s. Not only that the k20 ecu does a lot more than just fuel management it controls almost every aspect of the cars electronics building a ecu to replace all these functions is almost impossible, but good luck to anyone who wants to try, and I welcome any back to back testings between Andy using autronic on a k20 engine and vs Hondata, let me know when you get the engine “to idle” ehhe then we will talk.

As for OzDC5' meh the net is full of jealous ppl… period.

Regards James

[pornstar]

sif james, ill run ya ;) lol bring it on i say, street v street yer james ;) as for my idle its fine now, i decided to get it wired nikka.

street means no race fuel, no big ass mickey t's that ill never afford :(, unless of course i may burrow ur set lol

[BLKCRX]

we talkin dc5's here or my car vs your car ?
bc im talkin dc5's k20 here.... but sure wanta race my car street for street sure as well ;) cya in 5min lets go racin


Regards James

[BLKCRX]

If I had a 500kw's DC5R ... I probably wouldn't be running a K-Pro although I probably could

Well if you would't run Hondata ? what would you run ? VAFC II ??? LOL

there are no fully working solutions yet period !

Regards James

[pornstar]

haha, lets roll nikka :)

im not sure what ur talking about, i thought u meant my car v ur car???

I was only talking about k pro dc5's cos i was wanting to know why they are the best, getting info from ur krew haha :P

[BLKCRX]

iv only been talkin about dc5's ;-) not my car when you get a dc5 to idel with autronic... then sms me.. when u get it makin stock power.. call me ;-)

but sure bring ya car ova.. right now.. beep me when ya outside.. im only runnin 7psi... lets go racin ;-) plus i have 2 12" subs.... 2 amps na huge sub box in my car.. ;-) oh n a dvd player + xbox... lets race

Regards James

[pornstar]

haha funni kent, sif my subs are that light :P

talk over icq negro

[BLKCRX]

lets do a DB comp then ;-) i wonder who's stero is louder ;)

DOOF DOOOF DOOOF

[felixR]

wow it went so off topic :)

[neostars]

I Reckon

[BlackR]

Hey BLKCRX< how are ya, im just curiuos on how changing the angles of the cams helps provide more performance out of the K20A series motors. I was aware that you do do this but im just not certain on why it helps so much.

[pornstar]

i actually wanted to know how kpro does this... :) ill wait for the doof doof king to come and reply

[felixR]

hey where's the dyno sheet for the base run? should of posted that too.. so we can all see the difference :wave:

[Cr@ckerJ@ck]

This thread make me wanna buy a K-PRO!


:honda:


:rolleyes:


:thumbsup:

[bigteethygrin]

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