How to gain more torque, without spending shitloads?

[dslt]

Hey guys, just wondering what mods do i have to do to my jdc2r to gain more torque?

cheers =)

[T-onedc2]

With good I/H/E and well tuned ECU you'll get the best out of the internally stock engine and gain some torque, but to get significant increases then it starts to get expensive ie. stroke, cams, forced induction, do you have a budget to work with?

Perhaps try a lower final drive...

[olda]

Hey guys, just wondering what mods do i have to do to my jdc2r to gain more torque?

cheers =)

JUN stroker kit. Very expensive though. ~ 10K.

[Barge Ass]

Final drive, clutch and fly will free some up at the wheels along with a little better response. Final drive is best bang for buck, it doesn't actually increase torque at the fly but multiplies it. You will be revving higher and spending more on fuel but that oh so torquey midrange feeling is great.

[mugsee]

You won't gain torque but your car will feel more responsive when you reduce the weight of the car.

Alternatively, if you've got a couple of grand to spend, a turbo kit will be the best bet to increase torque.

[Mr_will]

serious increases in torque cannot be had without either turbo or increase in displacement.

[bennjamin]

Like wanting more "hp/kw" - why does the thread starter want more torque ? Where ? all thru teh rev range or just at VTEC or where ?

Without spending heaps , the best way to make your car be quicker (IE more pep) is to remove weight from the static and dynamic parts. IE interior , smaller/lighter wheels/flywheel etc. This will make the car "quicker" :)

[string]

Final Drive.

[nigs]

advance ignition timing?
*shrug*

[Kiz_EG6]

You want power for cheap ;)


http://www.homemadeturbo.com/

[dsp26]

i wouldn't call it cheap in the long run unless you have some secret numbers people don't know (since you need a dyno and/or tuner) but getting cam gears for their measly price and SAFELY increasing overlap will give you torque and adjust to the rev range you want it at too...

[Kiz_EG6]

i wouldn't call it cheap in the long run unless you have some secret numbers people don't know (since you need a dyno and/or tuner) but getting cam gears for their measly price and SAFELY increasing overlap will give you torque and adjust to the rev range you want it at too...

Yeah, i know, i'm only half serious...
But when people talk bout getting power for cheap, there is always going to be a compromise, if you are chasing power, your budget will always go out the door in the end!!

[dsp26]

Yeah, i know, i'm only half serious...
But when people talk bout getting power for cheap, there is always going to be a compromise, if you are chasing power, your budget will always go out the door in the end!!

lol fair enough, but i didn't reply to your post above :p

my first sentence probably didn't make sense.. i meant cam gear numbers hehehe

[TODA AU]

Hey guys, just wondering what mods do i have to do to my jdc2r to gain more torque?

cheers =)

Parts such as lightweigh flywheels, gear sets & final drives will make the most of the torque you already have.
They won't increase it however.
For a road car, a 4.9 + LW flywheel is as far as you'd need to go here.

Without opening up the engine, the following will give modest torque gains.

Good CAI - EG: Injen
This will give more low end than a short ram or Mugen box.
Top end power is still acceptable.

Use a quality header...
What ever the design, be sure to buy one that is proven to work.
If using am unconvenional interference header. (Tri Y)
Be sure that is includes stepped primaries so as to retain an accepable level of topend power.
Headers of a conventional 4~2~1 design do not require stepped primaries.

The rest of the exhaust system should be free flowing & 60mm ID.
Good systems to use are Fujitsubo or Mugen.
Both make systems with acceptable noise levels.

Once these parts are on, look at the ECU.
For best results, a full ECU is better.
However a VAFC II or similar can still deliver reasonable results. (Though slated toward top end gains)

Depending on car, adjustbel cam pulleys can also net reasonable results.
However this is not in all cases & depends on how well your engine performs already.

For larger increases,
The compression needs to be increased & camshafts looked at.
More again would come from quads & capacity increases

If you want to double torque output,
Get a turbo.

[fatboyz39]

I/H/E ECU+tune

[L a z y b O Y]

thats what i need right now!

[Benson]

upgrading your final drive is too crazy for streets and pretty pointless....stick with your 4.7...with a 4.9 you'll be constantly changing gears, reving at 4.5k at 110km/hr and wasting more fuel....

As above get good headers good intake and tune would be a good platform for you...

[AzKik-R]

quad throttle bodies :D

[TODA AU]

upgrading your final drive is too crazy for streets and pretty pointless....stick with your 4.7...with a 4.9 you'll be constantly changing gears, reving at 4.5k at 110km/hr and wasting more fuel....


Using a 4.928 final drive over stock item will deliver an effective gain of 3% in usable torque.
The 3% also translates into increased rpm at a given speed in gear.
Using the above mentioned 110km/hr example,
In reality the 110km/hr cruising rpm of a STD DC2-R with 205/50/15 tyres is 3790rpm
Using a 4.928 final drive, the same cruising speed with same tyre size is achieved at 3903rpm
The math says the increase is only 113rpm - total. (@ 110km/hr)

Crazy? or Common Sense?

[Elwood]

Using a 4.928 final drive over stock item will deliver an effective gain of 3% in usable torque.
The 3% also translates into increased rpm at a given speed in gear.
Using the above mentioned 110km/hr example,
In reality the 110km/hr cruising rpm of a STD DC2-R with 205/50/15 tyres is 3790rpm
Using a 4.928 final drive, the same cruising speed with same tyre size is achieved at 3903rpm
The math says the increase is only 113rpm - total. (@ 110km/hr)


+1 for effort lol..

never hit 5700 rpm on the F3 in 5th and hopefully never do :P

Exedy Leightened Flywheel + HD clutch combo, extractors, ecu and a good intake.. the injen has a "dip" in power at about 4000 rpm for some strange reason..

[bennjamin]

a shorter final drive or even different gear set (for example , 3/4/5 in a B series setup) will reap much more benefit than any CAI , header or even full tune will give. Period.

[dynosaur]

Using a 4.928 final drive over stock item will deliver an effective gain of 3% in usable torque.
The 3% also translates into increased rpm at a given speed in gear.
Using the above mentioned 110km/hr example,
In reality the 110km/hr cruising rpm of a STD DC2-R with 205/50/15 tyres is 3790rpm
Using a 4.928 final drive, the same cruising speed with same tyre size is achieved at 3903rpm
The math says the increase is only 113rpm - total. (@ 110km/hr)

Crazy? or Common Sense?

Will we gain some torque if JUST change the adjustable cam gear ?

thanks :)

[TODA AU]

Will we gain some torque if JUST change the adjustable cam gear ?

thanks

The answer is yes & no...
That is some cars respond really well to a set of adjustable cam pulleys.
Others don't & you end up back at the zero.
So to be honest, you won’t know until you try.
Unfortunately on a stock, unopened engine the use of adjustable cam pulleys on standard camshafts can be a bit of a lucky dip.

FWIW, we generally don’t fit adjustable cam pulleys unless the engine has been apart & machined & or aftermarket camshafts are fitted.
When machining & aftermarket cams are combined, it’s nice to have a pair of adjustable cam pulleys so you can optimize your cam timing.

[jdmTYPE R]

a shorter final drive or even different gear set (for example , 3/4/5 in a B series setup) will reap much more benefit than any CAI , header or even full tune will give. Period.
:thumbdwn:i got this setup in my car stock motor with a FD and gearset it does rev up lil quicker but does not as quick as a I/H/E and tune....but yes gearset r good but its just anoying that u need to change gears to quick..specially on the streets... I/H/E and tune = close to the same price as FD+gearset+labour and if u can do both it wil be a really fun track and street car+reliable.

[bennjamin]

definitely do both if possible in anyones budget ~ problem is most people would never even think of changing other parts of the car to make it "faster" , rather than simply get a header/CAI/tune.

Anyone here changed gears themselves too ? (apart from E240) ?

[fatboyz39]

definitely do both if possible in anyones budget ~ problem is most people would never even think of changing other parts of the car to make it "faster" , rather than simply get a header/CAI/tune.

Anyone here changed gears themselves too ? (apart from E240) ?

why don't you do it and let us know how it goes since your so anti I/H/E mods. 1/4 mile times will show this.

I've done it on my car changing FD from 3.9-4.4FD and it only help slightly, not my much.

[James The Wog]

what kinda price are we talking about for I/H/E & Tune and FD+gearset+labour?

cheers in advance

[teh_mechanic]

dont underestimate the need for a tuned aftermarket ecu to get the whole package working well after your i/h/e etc is on.
Too many people neglect this but it really makes a huge difference.
I have been driving my worked b16 around for a couple of days on a stock b16 ecu (testing fuel economy and trying to fix a problem) and it really does feel like a different car,more laggy and not as responsive compared to my tuned hondata s100,its one of the cheapest hondata,but for the street it really is worth it.

[James The Wog]

this should be a sticky?

[bennjamin]

why don't you do it and let us know how it goes since your so anti I/H/E mods. 1/4 mile times will show this.

I've done it on my car changing FD from 3.9-4.4FD and it only help slightly, not my much.

dont worry i will :) Not FD but gearsets themselves. Its much more fun and a learning process to realise it doesnt take $$$ to make these hondas go decent down the 1/4 or in everyday driving.

BTW lets keep this constructive ~
Tell us all what other mods you had on the car at the time when you did the FD ?What gearbox ? What engine ?



Again i ask is there anyone here as well who has done a FD or gearset upgrade for their ride ? The idea is you DONT have to spend lots of money on I/H/E and a ecu + tune to get a car moving and performing faster - which is , what this thread essentially is about. More "pull" for less $ spent

[jdmTYPE R]

there wont be much of a difference, as wat u expect ben...but doesnt hurt to try...

[fatboyz39]

Close gear set $1k, Labour to install gearset $600-$1k (depending where you go), free if you do know how to install. Bearing's and syncros changed if worn thats another $500.

So all up around the 2k mark.

I/H/E + tune will equal to around that price. Intake $350-$450 (injen or AEM)/ Exhaust $600 (2.5' headers back), Headers $500-$800 (tri-Y design). ECU and tune (800-1k).

[jdmTYPE R]

doing I/H/E tuned is better then just doing gearset..but doing gearset is better then doing cams..

[Manabir]

Cheap, Reliable, Power...3 things everyone wants but you can only ever have 2.
do you want:
cheap power without being reliable?
reliable power without being cheap?
cheap reliable without having lotsa power?

[dsp26]

doing I/H/E tuned is better then just doing gearset..but doing gearset is better then doing cams..

ooft.. that ones debatable... did you mean just the FD or the entire lot?

best to get all done though to have the power bands all synched....

I just realised Camshaft mods are very underrated by most in the Honda community... i also noticed that a lot of people here chase the big duration cams for like 100rpm of dyno queen peak numbers at the top.

If it were me I would do low-mid or mid range powerband cams along with either thinner gasket or flat top valves or both + cam gears to tune for overlap and then get an over-all tune for low-mid or mid-high power.

Cams/gears/gasket or valves is under $1k since ECU+tune is already factored in with the I/H/E i'd just get it all tuned at once which is the plan.

***EDIT***
i'm saying under $1k coz thats budgeting for OBX Stage 1 or 2 which are billet chromoly copies of Skunk2 1/2


I agree with the post above mine but you can have all 3.. just gotta know where to look....

[bennjamin]

lets define "shitloads". . . ?

Anway , lets summarize that there is only 1 way to increase "available" torque without spending $1 , and that is weight reduction of both static parts and reducing mass of moving parts IE smaller rims etc.

[TODA AU]

lets define "shitloads". . . ?

Def: A huge quantity of fecal matter piled high in a container or vessel.
When the said vessel is full, a metric shitload has been achieved.
To clearly define the volume of a metric shitload, one would have to study the dimensions of the said vessel & specific gravity of fecal matter used.:p

How one would actually use this as currency is beyond me.

[e240]

^^^
No shit...

[Benson]

Just do a 2.0l bottom end :p

[jdmTYPE R]

ooft.. that ones debatable... did you mean just the FD or the entire lot?

best to get all done though to have the power bands all synched....

I just realised Camshaft mods are very underrated by most in the Honda community... i also noticed that a lot of people here chase the big duration cams for like 100rpm of dyno queen peak numbers at the top.

If it were me I would do low-mid or mid range powerband cams along with either thinner gasket or flat top valves or both + cam gears to tune for overlap and then get an over-all tune for low-mid or mid-high power.

Cams/gears/gasket or valves is under $1k since ECU+tune is already factored in with the I/H/E i'd just get it all tuned at once which is the plan.

***EDIT***
i'm saying under $1k coz thats budgeting for OBX Stage 1 or 2 which are billet chromoly copies of Skunk2 1/2


I agree with the post above mine but you can have all 3.. just gotta know where to look....

gearset meaning the lot, but they dont wanna spend $1.....and agree with your post (power band low/mid) :thumbsup: .

[dsp26]

lol... this thread is pointless in a Honda forum...

people chasing torque are driving the wrong cars methings....

[grumpy rooster]

Hate to harp on about Joe's car but the Hi-Comp Civic is the perfect example of what this thread is about. Lightened EG Civic H22A that only has ported and shaved head. Standard headers with 2.5" exhaust and CAI. Aftermarket computer with tune makes 130kw at the wheels and runs 11.9 @113mph. FD ratio is 4.7 and is one of the best improvements the car got. Despite what people are saying gearing is vital for 1/4 mile performance.

If your on a really tight budget I'd go lightened flywheel and FD change to a lower ratio. This will make a big difference to the feel of the car.

[bennjamin]

...Despite what people are saying gearing is vital for 1/4 mile performance.

If your on a really tight budget I'd go lightened flywheel and FD change to a lower ratio. This will make a big difference to the feel of the car.


be careful , you might get negative repped for talk like that i know because i got it for saying the same thing go figure :zip:
It is true tho , take a car and put I/H/E and a tuneable ECU on it. You will hardly go faster. But change the FD or gearset and there will definitley be an improvement :)

[kayot1k]

you hafta get an american muscle car for torque.
so much torque it twists the chassis.

at the end of the day depends what you want, you want more power or you want to utilise what you got.
IMO lower FD/gearset>ECU+tune
utlimately you want both. so everyone is right,

[flipstar]

yea there is no cheap solution 2 gaining power when u got a honda u do it for the love not for the budget ur under:D

[sassy_fit_vtit]

want more torque get it tuned its worth it

[sam.]

i'm on the strippin it out bandwagon, before my conversion i had full interior plus a huge stereo system, now it's all gone and there's a huge difference! better round corners too!

[kayot1k]

exposed bare metal FTL. that shit isnt street legal why would you do this.

[sam.]

umm, less weight= better braking abilitiy and better handling/acceleration, also in the event of a crash there is no nothing behind the seat that could come smashing forwards and potentially hurt/kill me/someone, AND i'm sick of sticky fingered f*ckwits stealing my shit!

[Sexc86]

Get a bottle

[yakuza]

Stripe your car's interior is the cheapest & most effective way to make your car go & brake faster.
Agree?

[aaronng]

Sell the DC2R, buy a large engined car from the 90's. You might even make a few dollars.

But if you want to keep yoru DC2R, nothing short of adding forced induction or a bottle.

Stripping the interior of a DC2R is silly because most of the weight reduction is already done at the factory.

[iced]

I/H/E with ecu (or afc) with plus tune on 98 if you are not your car is not a typeR.
advance abit of timing.

[krogoth]

Sell the DC2R, buy a large engined car from the 90's. You might even make a few dollars.

But if you want to keep yoru DC2R, nothing short of adding forced induction or a bottle.

Stripping the interior of a DC2R is silly because most of the weight reduction is already done at the factory.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

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