integra suspension options

[fried]

this is my current situation. i drive a dc2 (94 integra vtir)

i am riding on dead stock shocks, with kmac lowered springs.

what i want to keep, in whatever option i chooose, is my current ride height.

my driving style? probably mostly daily driver, with perhaps occasional spirited sprinting, but hardly.

so after reading up, i have a few options.

option 1: originally i wanted to buy koni yellow sports, and keep my current springs. but ive realised, that my springs are not held captive (becasue the spring is too short compared to the stroke of the koni), which may affect, negatively, the life of my konis, just as it has the life of the stock shocks. so buying expensive aftermarket shocks, and ruining them by using bad springs is a waste of money.

option 2: keeping the kmacs (which i'll assume are relatively soft in spring rate), putting them on some spare stock shocks - that have never riden on lowered springs, and buying a thicker rear sway bar. after reading an article on the whilteline site, this seems a good cheaper option. soft spring rate which will take in bumps, shocks that will work and absorb the bumps everywhere (even if just for a few months - until i choose another option), and thicker sway bar, which will reduce body roll.

option 3: buying the koni yellows, and also buying aftermarket progressive springs that will match my current ride height.

with option 3 comes a few questions. who can make custom height springs for me? whiteline? i *think* the drop i want is about 65mm. when koni yellows are bought new, where are the height adjustable perches set at (from factory)? on the front 1152, there are 3 different perches, and on the rear 1153, there are two perches from memory. where are those perches set from factory.

perhaps option 4 is choosing eibach sportlines (which drop about 45mm) and the konis. dropping the one perch on both front and rear shock, and hopefully have them equal in height.

can anyone help? thanks for your time.

regards

fried.

[wynode]

I believe the whiteline control springs are around 45mm (for he EG civic they are) For a biggger drop I think you'd have to go for the flat out range.

[luzinit]

is sportline only a 45mm drop? damn.. only 1 more cm than prokit?

in that case, what i would probably do is, get the sportlines, put it on the lowest on the rear, so u will get a 60mm drop, and on the front, i'd get another groove machined inbetween the middle and last perch, at 15mm lower than stock perch, thus 60mm drop all around on good springs and shocks!

afaik it cost about 50 dollars to machine the grooves. hth eric

[poid]

Firstly, the spring not being captive wont affect the life of the Koni's. Springs that are too stiff and/or too low can bugger them, but not being captive is a non-issue. When you are driving, they are captive unless you get airborne.

Secondly, if you need custom made springs, look no further than Kmac. Whiteline dont make custom height springs as far as i know.

[bennjamin]

Firstly, the spring not being captive wont affect the life of the Koni's. Springs that are too stiff and/or too low can bugger them, but not being captive is a non-issue. When you are driving, they are captive unless you get airborne.

Secondly, if you need custom made springs, look no further than Kmac. Whiteline dont make custom height springs as far as i know.

Usually a spring not being captive usually means that it is designed for a shorter stroke damper - ofcourse which can have detrimental effects (is that a word?) on the konis or similar compared to just"low" progressive springs.

Mind you - Konis effectiveness is not hampered at anyheight - BUT go TOO low ( ie , resting on the bumpstops like me ) and they will suffer !

Eric - id go for the sportlines...and cut that extra groove into it such as Tony suggested...

Or give k-mac a call as Poid suggested :)

[fried]

Firstly, the spring not being captive wont affect the life of the Koni's. Springs that are too stiff and/or too low can bugger them, but not being captive is a non-issue. When you are driving, they are captive unless you get airborne.



poid.... how true and sure of this are you? have u any evidence?

if it is true, then option 1 is a good choice. however, from what i understand, this seems to not be the case.

also i have just called whiteline and spoke to a lady called jackie, saying "this is highly illegal, and unsafe. being too low it will effect the life of the konis". that being said, she also said that konis do not have height adjustable perches. so i do not know whether she understands

regards

fried.

[poid]

well think about it, the ride height determines the usable stroke of the shock, not whether they are captive or not when you jack the car up. Having springs that are the same height, with one set being captive and the others not captive, you will not find a difference in the wear rate of the shock between the two IMO.

Even resting on the bumpstops, as long as you arent using tiny or non-existant bumpstops and therefore bottoming the things they will last a very, very long time (longer than you will have the car i bet!)

As long as you arent bottoming the Koni's they will be fine. Mine were for 18 months on non-captive springs before i sold them.

Not captive is illegal, yes...but perfectely safe as long as you dont start launching the car off speed humps to see how much air you can get :)

(i am assuming that the springs become captive soon after you start dropping it off the hoist though, if they become captive an inch higher than your ride height its a different story!!)

[fried]

cool.

this is what i understand of how suspension works, in terms of the shocks and springs. the springs take in the bounce and bumps. the shocks/dampers absorb that force and transform the energy.

so we have heard the phrase *god, that car is riding just on springs*, when we see a dumped car bouncing around everywhere. what i am afraid of is the actual truth of that statement. because in actual fact, a car *that low* would actually be riding on the shock, because the springs would be so short, that they're effectiveness is almost negligable, and the travel of the damper is riding on the bumpstop instead of resting on the springs rebound. hence the ride is acutally on the shock. now THAT cannot be a good thing.

this is what i am afraid of.

[poid]

yup thats how it works

is it sitting on the bumpstops now? Koni bumpstops (you can buy them, normally you use stock ones) are a lot smaller than the stock ones, so i dont think you will have that problem if you arent having it now.

Well it wouldnt be riding on the shock, it would be riding on the springs but the shock would have so little travel that on the way down it hits the bumpstop with a lot of force and goes straight back up again, and again until it settles down to how it was before the bump. I had this happen with a set of coilovers that had very little shock travel in them. When you hit a big bump you were launched out of your seat as the rear shocks hit the bumpstops.

When you get to that stage is when you start looking at shortened shocks, but you have to be damn low for that to happen. I never had this issue on the accord, and i had 65mm clearance from the (stock) exhaust to the road. Tegs might be different, but i dont think they are

[BlitZ]

short stroke shocks- the primary purpose for short stroke shocks are not to keep springs captive but to keep shock movement within centre of shock for optimum life long usuage. Another purpose of short stroke shocks is so that it doesnt bottom out and bust (like eg in normal longer shocks). But can you name me many brands that have shorter stroke shorts apart from coilover types?

Spring being captive - All springs should be capitve. They are illegal for a reason. What happens if u hit a large bump and the springs fall out of its crown.. it would unstable the car lob sided and you could loose control.


Getting konis- By getting koni's and using std perch your car would lower a further 1-2 cms.. as there std perch sits your car lower. If your springs currently fall out of its perch then by using konis it would proabably allow for a higher chance for it to fall out as the koni shocks are almost the same height as std. Nevertless it would give good handling. As some already above has suggested ill doubt the konis would blow out.. they are the gem..

have fun tuning

[BlitZ]

but how low would you be if you were able to go to constanly ride on bump stops.. oil sump would be scrapping the floor..

you only every possibly hit a bump stock when u hit a bump..
u always have to cut the bump stops with lowered springs..

all the ppl u see bouching everywhere have dead shocks..

just my 2 cents correct me if im wrong

[bennjamin]

...thats the thing...basically...Eric wants a dumped stance as it is now - unfortunatley Mr E wont accept that it will advance the failure of most suspension componements and the car in general !

Oh well....to look sexy u must pay.....

[poid]

Spring being captive - All springs should be capitve. They are illegal for a reason. What happens if u hit a large bump and the springs fall out of its crown.. it would unstable the car lob sided and you could loose control.


If you hit a bump big enough to dislodge the springs, i'd be more worried about the sump that you left down the road than the springs that have become non-captive

When this law was made, you had cars like commodores which had the spring seperate to the strut, so it could literally fall off the car if Mr Booner did something stupid in it. Wi th our setups it cant cause a whole lot of damage in the unlikely event that it happens (except, as i said before, for it to happen your car will be in a world of hurt already!)

[EG_2_TEG]

hey fried

whats the lowering in cm of your current Kmacs?
and how many km's on ur car at the moment'

cheers

[kwayzivietnamese]

U got PM.